View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    This question has been asked and answered probably 50 times already in all the various Armstrong threads, but in for a penny in for a pound, so I'll answer it yet once again.

    Here`s a link to the latest comments from Christian Prudhomme, race director for the Tour de France suggesting that the best resolution is to leave a blank spot in the results i.e. no winner (as has been discussed and proposed several times in this thread already);

    Tour De France Director Against Reassigning Armstrong’s Victories | Cyclingnews.com
    How idiotic can you get, regardless of if he was guilty or not, if the titles exist currently or not, Lance will always be known as the person who won the tour de france seven times.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    How idiotic can you get, regardless of if he was guilty or not, if the titles exist currently or not, Lance will always be known as the person who won the tour de france seven times.
    No, he will be remembered as the guy who cheated his was to 7 tour wins, you left out the 'cheated' part.
    Blurr while i respect your sticking to your guns and persistence in these lance threads are you a dead set raving lunatic or what?
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    No, he will be remembered as the guy who cheated his was to 7 tour wins, you left out the 'cheated' part.
    Blurr while i respect your sticking to your guns and persistence in these lance threads are you a dead set raving lunatic or what?
    Days off and the weather sucks, so may as well argue

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    How idiotic can you get, regardless of if he was guilty or not, if the titles exist currently or not, Lance will always be known as the person who won the tour de france seven times.
    I can only speak for myself, but that's not the way I'll remember him. Others will have opinions that go both ways, in some % split.

  5. #130
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    I think I will remember Lance as a person that changed cycling. For better or worse, the sport was changed by him, and importantly will improve as a result of him.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsey24 View Post
    there is no law against paying money for a doctor.

    what evidence links that money with drugs?
    It is actually very illegal for Ferrara to accept money in this type of scenario. He essentially acted as an open pharmacy for Lance and I see huge correlations between this and the Michael Jackson fiasco.
    Ferrara is a POS and I hope he ends up in jail.
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  7. #132
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    In the past, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. But now, with all his teammates coming clean (no pun intended), I believe he juiced like the rest.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    I think I will remember Lance as a person that changed cycling. For better or worse, the sport was changed by him, and importantly will improve as a result of him.
    +1 He put cycling on the map for America that is for sure.

    He and Landis gave hope to people who previously thought such things were a sentence to living life in misery, that is way cool.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    Days off and the weather sucks, so may as well argue
    Arguing with you is like arguing with someone who insists OJ didn't kill his wife. Credulous uncritical people aren't worth the effort.


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  10. #135
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    At some time over the years I came to the realization that Armstrong was a doper. I came to the realization that all top road cyclists of his era were doping. I hadn't followed the Armstrong saga closely, so what I hadn't known until recently was just how dirty he was about smearing and intimidating people who told the truth about him and how central he was to coercing other cyclists to follow his doping scheme.

  11. #136
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    Here is my disclaimer: This is only my opinion.

    I do think Lance cheated. Even though I believe he cheated what he still did was amazing. Lets stick to the facts. This man had cancer, overcame it , and still became a pro cyclist. That would have been enough for me to admire anyone. If he would've won 1 race I would have been shocked, but this guy won the TDF 7 times. If you look at that era there was a doping epidemic. How could a guy beat a field of dopers if he didn't dope? Did he just train that much better? I would like to believe that, but I don't. If he did or didn't dope what he did on the bike was extraordinary.

    I admire the local guy who rides with me that had cancer.
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  12. #137
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    If he'd admit it and apologize to the people he's treated so badly along the way, I think he'd still be widely admired. I think he's under too much financial jeopardy and possibly even legal jeopardy for him to do that though.

  13. #138
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    The best contribution of lance to USA, is that he show you where the effel tower is actually from, Not Las Vegas.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geralt View Post
    At some time over the years I came to the realization that Armstrong was a doper. I came to the realization that all top road cyclists of his era were doping. I hadn't followed the Armstrong saga closely, so what I hadn't known until recently was just how dirty he was about smearing and intimidating people who told the truth about him and how central he was to coercing other cyclists to follow his doping scheme.
    So true, doping is one thing, but his antics will be remembered.
    What he didn't realise is this whole doping saga was going to surface sooner or later.
    The reason it was going to surface is becasue a lot of people knew about his doping, most of those people weren't exactly friends. I wonder how many blackmail attempts he has lived through.
    He isnt an intelligent guy, plus did he really think he could get away with winning 7 titles and no one getting suspicous? He got greedy. (He isnt superman ffs)
    He can never be the rider that Cadel Evans is.
    LA did put cycling on the map, but for all the wrong reasons.
    Last edited by SV11; 10-15-2012 at 06:54 AM.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Make it three because the entire pro peloton was on the juice in one way or the other during Armstrong's tenure. Doing a better, more professional job of juicing was just one more integral component of winning and being a winner on the highest level of competition on the world stage. His wins and titles should stand because he was the best athlete and the best at the doping game too.
    WTF?

    Yes Armstrong was the strongest and smartest doped rider on a playing field of MOSTLY doped riders. Barry Bonds hit more home runs and roger Clemens struck out more batters than any other doped baseball players. Marion Jones was the fastest runner among doped Olympians.

    Damn, that makes me feel good.

    BUT, the ENTIRE pro peloton was NOT doped in the Armstrong era. There were at least a few honest/courageous riders who refused to risk their health to win, to be competitive, or even just stay employed in the sport. It was these people who got f***ed up the ass by rampant doping.

    Armstrong was/is a lying self centered psychopathic bully who deserves zero respect for anything he accomplished, surviving cancer, being the best doper, winning 7 tdf while doped to the gills, or whatever. He has to come clean like all his teammates before he can salvage anything he has left.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    WTF?

    Yes Armstrong was the strongest and smartest doped rider on a playing field of MOSTLY doped riders. Barry Bonds hit more home runs and roger Clemens struck out more batters than any other doped baseball players. Marion Jones was the fastest runner among doped Olympians.

    Damn, that makes me feel good.

    BUT, the ENTIRE pro peloton was NOT doped in the Armstrong era. There were at least a few honest/courageous riders who refused to risk their health to win, to be competitive, or even just stay employed in the sport. It was these people who got f***ed up the ass by rampant doping.

    Armstrong was/is a lying self centered psychopathic bully who deserves zero respect for anything he accomplished, surviving cancer, being the best doper, winning 7 tdf while doped to the gills, or whatever. He has to come clean like all his teammates before he can salvage anything he has left.

    Well first of all, I don't think that the doping with performance enhancing drugs of that period necessarily caused people to "risk their own health". All the teams had their own doctors coordinating and monitoring the doping. The net effect of the doping was to improve recovery from training and allow extreme volumes of very hard training to produce a stronger body. I know that may be hard to deal with for some people with a simplistic and Puritanical "pure body" mindset but it's true.

    By the vast majority of ex-pro accounts of that era, the doping was a reality among all top riders, sorry. If you want to continue on with your demonizing witch hunt about people being "lying self centered psychopaths" and so on because you're suddenly disillusioned then go for it. To me, the guy (and a lot of other guys) got caught and he's (they're) paying the price and that's enough. I don't feel the need to burn anyone at the stake to purge them of their "evil".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean?-burnatthestake.jpg  


  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    By the vast majority of ex-pro accounts of that era, the doping was a reality among all top riders, sorry.
    That might of been the case, but how many of them top doped riders went to the extent that LA did, by intimidating, lying, smearing other people who dropped the beans on him, when he got caught out? Why couldn't he own up to it?
    This isn't just about doping, the guy is a lunatic!

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Well first of all, I don't think that the doping with performance enhancing drugs of that period necessarily caused people to "risk their own health". All the teams had their own doctors coordinating and monitoring the doping. The net effect of the doping was to improve recovery from training and allow extreme volumes of very hard training to produce a stronger body. I know that may be hard to deal with for some people with a simplistic and Puritanical "pure body" mindset but it's true.

    By the vast majority of ex-pro accounts of that era, the doping was a reality among all top riders, sorry. If you want to continue on with your demonizing witch hunt about people being "lying self centered psychopaths" and so on because you're suddenly disillusioned then go for it. To me, the guy (and a lot of other guys) got caught and he's (they're) paying the price and that's enough. I don't feel the need to burn anyone at the stake to purge them of their "evil".
    Who's "suddenly disillusioned"? This has been going on for more than a decade. Rider after rider has been busted and/or come clean, including every rider your a-hole hero beat or teamed with. If you don't think he's a total a-hole you are the one who is terminally naive and uninformed. As opposed to class acts and admitted dopers George Hincapie and David Millar

    Cadel Evans whom you might have heard of, as former WC mtb champ and TdF winner, was/is a top pro and reputed to be clean

    http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cycl...-1226495552945

    You want a hero, try a good guy, eh?





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  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Well first of all, I don't think that the doping with performance enhancing drugs of that period necessarily caused people to "risk their own health".
    Use the google why don't you, and see what you can find to refute that fallacy.

    http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009...sleep.html?m=1

    http://www.pfitzinger.com/labreports/epo.shtml




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  20. #145
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    The thing that has me astounded is that in the poll above there are 24 yes 24 people that think Lance never doped, they must also me members of the 'flat earth cult'
    But they do say that one in every ten people are insane so the poll above is right on the money....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    The thing that has me astounded is that in the poll above there are 24 yes 24 people that think Lance never doped, they must also me members of the 'flat earth cult'
    But they do say that one in every ten people are insane so the poll above is right on the money....
    You might also call them " low information voters", which is why Presidential elections are so scary.




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    Last edited by dwt; 10-15-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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  22. #147
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    Good poll....

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Use the google why don't you, and see what you can find to refute that fallacy.

    The Science of Sport: Cyclist dies in sleep

    Pete Pfitzinger - Lab Reports - EPO: illegal, effective, and deadly




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    The first link is to a story about a pro cyclist dying in his sleep but there's no reason there as to why it happened then it meanders off into some anecdotes about EPO use, vaguely trying to link the two w/o any evidence. The second link is to a story on the dangers of EPO. Are you saying that performance enhancing drugs can hurt you? Yes they can but any athlete using so much EPO that it endangered their life either had a no doctor supervising its use or an incompetent doctor doing so treating an incompetent patient.

    Is Lance Armstrong dead, blind, crippled or crazy today as a result of using PE drugs? I don't think so. In fact he successfully used EPO under a doctor's care as a vital life giving therapy during his battle with cancer. Tons of people die from using too much alcohol every year but we still aren't afraid to have a drink or two now and again. You can die from drinking too much water too but it's pretty rare. The difference between help and harm with any substance is always in the dose. Some of the anti-PE drug tales are so very reminiscent of the cheesy scare tactics evident in stuff like Reefer Madness.

    I don't condone or use PEDs but for gawds-sake, use a little common sense not just fear tactics. As far as Armstrong goes, the guy and a lot of others got caught for using drugs against the rules for years. His multi-million dollar a year cycling career that gave him international fame, admiration and respect is shot today. That alone should be a lesson for those tempted to do the same. Give it a rest.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Who's "suddenly disillusioned"? This has been going on for more than a decade. Rider after rider has been busted and/or come clean, including every rider your a-hole hero beat or teamed with. If you don't think he's a total a-hole you are the one who is terminally naive and uninformed. As opposed to class acts and admitted dopers George Hincapie and David Millar

    Cadel Evans whom you might have heard of, as former WC mtb champ and TdF winner, was/is a top pro and reputed to be clean

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  25. #150
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    I have no idea if he was clean or not. But he was tested numerous times, and passed them all.

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