Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean?

[jeffscott]

Yes, the UCI came into compliance with WADA code in 2004 otherwise all cycling events were going to be nixed from the Olympics. Cycling - via the UCI - was the last and final holdout among all Olympic sports to agree to the WADA code. What I cannot recall with any certainty is whether there was an alternate, but still enforceable, anti-doping agreement tied to licenses and the license application process prior to 2004. I'm pretty certain there was, but not 100% positive. I didn't really pay close attention, because I had no qualms about signing off on my agreement to any anti-doping compliance measures and rules.



The WADA code and rules are retroactive. The rider signs off on their agreement to the WADA code during the licensing process. If the rider has a "shady" past and doesn't want to be subject to retroactive processes, they have the option to not apply for their license. Armstrong chose to apply. Case closed.

nope not case closed maybe for you.....but retroactive rules are not fair by any standard....

BTW what clause makes it retroactive.

[pursuiter]

I don't think he ever promised not to take PEDs ...

His contract with Coke and USPS promised that he followed all doping rules and his agent changed the Coke contract to read that Lance was clean and would pay back all $$ if Lance failed a dope test (sneaky agent, naive Coke executives).

The civil arbitration in Nov 2005 was called to adjudicate between Armstrong (and his company Tailwind Sports) against SCA Promotions Inc and Ted Lyonhamman Insurance Services. The latter were reluctant to pay out the $5  million bonus due to Armstrong after he won his sixth *consecutive Tour de France, as rumours spread as to his possible use of performance-enhancing drugs.

The insurance company and SCA wanted assurances that he was not doping before paying out, Armstrong wanted his money so, at Armstrong’s insistence, they went to court.

The action was laid at the Dallas County District Court, but Armstrong gave three and a half hours’ evidence in a video recording conducted at the law offices of Herman, Howry and Breen in Austin, Texas. It was made clear to Armstrong that “penalties of perjury attach to this deposition just like they would to a court of law proceeding”.

USADA lists the seven instances of alleged perjury as:
1. That Dr Michele Ferrari, the Italian who USADA accused of being US Postal’s doping mastermind, never prescribed, administered or suggested any kind of a drug or doping programme for Lance Armstrong.

2. That there was nothing in Armstrong’s dealings with Dr Ferrari that would suggest that Dr Ferrari was encouraging other athletes to use performance enhancing drugs.

3. That Armstrong had not had any professional relationship with Dr Ferrari since October 1, 2004.

4. That Armstrong never violated the rules of the UCI or the Tour de France in connection with the Tour de France in 2001, 2002, 2003 or 2004.

5. That Armstrong had never taken any performance-enhancing drug in connection with his cycling career.

6. That Armstrong never knew of Tyler Hamilton using illegal substances when on the same team.

7. That Hamilton did not dope while he was on Armstrong’s team.

The US Attorney’s office in Los Angeles remained tight-lipped last night on whether the damning USADA report will lead to a reopening of the criminal investigation against Armstrong. When asked by The Daily Telegraph whether the USADA report constituted new evidence, a spokesman for the US Attorney’s office in LA said: “We are not commenting in relation to the USADA report.”

[Circlip]

btw what clause makes it retroactive.

24.5 which then references Article 10 in turn.

[BacDoc]

You want evidence? Under all those Trek and Livestrong decals this is the bike Lance used for his tour wins The Rasta Works Ganja Pro 4:20:



What was he on? He was on the Ganja 6 hrs a day! Tough long rides are a lot less painful when you're on the Ganja!

[mbco1975]

Lance should have used the chewbacca defense.

Sj

I love that episode.....

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury

[Dirty $anchez]

This Postal rider did the right thing:

BBC Sport - Lance Armstrong case creates an unlikely hero

[heyyall]

Az, as always, good stuff.

[dickeydoo]

^^^^ Notice there is an ad for EPO-Boost in Az's link.

[heyyall]

Well, the local nutrition store today was running a radio ad for over the counter human growth hormone supplement that was guaranteed to add muscle mass in less than a month.

[Circlip]

Well, the local nutrition store today was running a radio ad for over the counter human growth hormone supplement that was guaranteed to add muscle mass in less than a month.

Also, don't forget to completely disregard any instructions or warnings on the label. Whatever you can fit in your stomach is the proper dose.

[006_007]

Also, don't forget to completely disregard any instructions or warnings on the label. Whatever you can fit in your stomach is the proper dose.

Dammit, I just had my stomach size reduced to combat my weight control issues - now I gotta go get it increased so I can be strong n fast.

[adam728]

This Postal rider did the right thing:

BBC Sport - Lance Armstrong case creates an unlikely hero

Great that Mercier resisted the pressure, and even made the hard choice to walk away. BUT, what part of this gives him the "hero" label? Didn't try and bring it to light, get it stopped, etc (from the way the story reads anyway).

[Blurr]

24.5 which then references Article 10 in turn.

Of course it does, the entire thing states they can do absolutely anything they want, which is amazing you or anyone else would support an organization that writes its own rules while coming down on Lance for the organizations subjective accusations on his supposedly ( never proven) not following the rules.


Really the USADA has done more to encourage Doping than otherwise, with their draconian witch hunts, their blackmailing of atheletes to get the accusations they are looking for they are sending a message to the Youth that it is Impossible to have great success without Cheating, how wonderful, I wonder if they will now find a way to go back and Strip Jack Lalane of all the great superhuman feats he did


Edit: And what is the point in having testing if the USADA can merely decide you were cheating anyhow?

[Tone's]

Of course it does, the entire thing states they can do absolutely anything they want, which is amazing you or anyone else would support an organization that writes its own rules while coming down on Lance for the organizations subjective accusations on his supposedly ( never proven) not following the rules.


Really the USADA has done more to encourage Doping than otherwise, with their draconian witch hunts, their blackmailing of atheletes to get the accusations they are looking for they are sending a message to the Youth that it is Impossible to have great success without Cheating, how wonderful, I wonder if they will now find a way to go back and Strip Jack Lalane of all the great superhuman feats he did


Edit: And what is the point in having testing if the USADA can merely decide you were cheating anyhow?

Blur, you must be takin the piss, i read some ridiculous things on here but this is right up there with the best of em......

[tl1]

Yes, this.

Make it three because the entire pro peloton was on the juice in one way or the other during Armstrong's tenure. Doing a better, more professional job of juicing was just one more integral component of winning and being a winner on the highest level of competition on the world stage. His wins and titles should stand because he was the best athlete and the best at the doping game too.

[cda 455]

Blur, you must be takin the piss, i read some ridiculous things on here but this is right up there with the best of em......

Totally agree.


Talk about a poast that makes absolutely no sense. Especially when the info is out there to read.

[Sandrenseren]

Just curious what public opinion is.

Okay, then where are the option to answer that I don't give a rats ass, I still admire him for what he did on a bike, no matter what some suits in a courtroom decides years later?

[41ants]

Okay, then where are the option to answer that I don't give a rats ass, I still admire him for what he did on a bike, no matter what some suits in a courtroom decides years later?

Yup, I don't care if he doped or not..much like i don't care if people are doping in the NFL, NCAA, MLB, or if the guy next to me in the gym is all dieseled up.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Blurr]

Okay, then where are the option to answer that I don't give a rats ass, I still admire him for what he did on a bike, no matter what some suits in a courtroom decides years later?

This save there is no courtroom

[SV11]

I feel sorry for all the kids that looked up to him. He knew he was a role model but continued to dope up year after year.
So he (Lance) knew all along he could not of won the TDF year after year without being on performance enhancing drugs....why else would he have been on it.

[dwt]

What jock sniffing head-in-the sand dimwits like Blur ignore are the non dopers in the Armstrong era. Those are the guys who deserve admiration for courage:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...epo-era_258522

http://m.guardiannews.com/sport/2012...t&type=article

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...-says-Hamilton

http://www.independent.ie/sport/othe...t-3257272.html




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[SlopeRiderSC]

Clear now that LA is in deep trouble. But what can we say about all those that were 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... behind him during his long reign on the Tour ?

LA might be deleted from the results and then what ? Who's going to be declared winner of the Tour and what will happen ?
Ullrich, Vinokurov, Klöden, Basso, etc...
That's a joke...

[dirtdan]

Of course he did. He's a top athlete that was winning a lot. It's what they do...

[Circlip]

This question has been asked and answered probably 50 times already in all the various Armstrong threads, but in for a penny in for a pound, so I'll answer it yet once again.

Here`s a link to the latest comments from Christian Prudhomme, race director for the Tour de France suggesting that the best resolution is to leave a blank spot in the results i.e. no winner (as has been discussed and proposed several times in this thread already);

Tour De France Director Against Reassigning Armstrong’s Victories | Cyclingnews.com

Clear now that LA is in deep trouble. But what can we say about all those that were 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... behind him during his long reign on the Tour ?

LA might be deleted from the results and then what ? Who's going to be declared winner of the Tour and what will happen ?
Ullrich, Vinokurov, Klöden, Basso, etc...
That's a joke...

[coal mountain]

i have seen through LA for awhile, and i do not support his racing actions. but on the tittles i think they should stand as a reminder of what happened. all too often history is written by the victors. LA not sure if the Postal money was tax dollars or not. also how much does livestrong benefit cancer patients?
my hate of cheaters is strong but my ability to forgive is greater, LA justapologizee and we can move on. help clean up sports.