View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #201
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50calray View Post
    I heard the other day that companies/endorsements are trying to sue LA and the government may get involved as well.
    I have not heard of any companies that Armstrong had endorsement contracts with proposing to sue him. He does have very real financial exposure in a couple of other areas, primarily from SCA Promotions whom he quite obviously defrauded of several million dollars in bonus payouts (although due to legal technicalities they might not be able to recover) and also ASO which owns and operates the TdF which is also saying they want several million in prize winnings returned. A seven figure libel payout to Armstrong by a UK newspaper is also very likely to be overturned now.

    The largest issue may be a Qui Tam suit brought by the U.S. feds that could total tens of millions of dollars, but that's another matter entirely which doesn't have much in the way of firm information available to the public at this time, given that the case was previously shelved by the Department of Justice (for undisclosed reasons) and they're still not talking about it.

  2. #202
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    "P.S. no reason to neg rep the mentally challenged. That's just wrong."

    "Everyone doped and everyone is still doping...if you think otherwise, you must be on dope"

    two jewels from this thread...that and the quip about "the flat earth society"...

    good god.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    Too many are still in denial. There can no longer be any question of what happened in that era. I too was drawn into the excitement of the Lance Armstrong years. But as one after another a rider left or was kicked off his teams only to be caught later for doping...my doubts grew about how clean LA was. Something strange was going on.
    You are far from alone. I remember many a mountain stage party at my house in the early years when I was the only one in my crowd who could get Versus on satellite. We sat on the edges of our seats and cheered. In 2002 I had my own bout of cancer and when the Livestrong bracelets came out mine never came off. It wasn't until Floyd's debacle that I gave up on cycling and realized everyone was dirty My oldest son, who raced in the SF Bay Area, had warned me years earlier. "doping is endemic; if a performance looks too good to be true, it's not." Over and over again, some guy was over the top. Rasmussen and Contador, both dominant both busted. The Spanish Armada,2012. And so many seeming suspicious, Gilbert 2011 (was there a race he didn't win?); Horner and Levi (doper), 2011 Tour of California( two old men dropping 20 and 30 somethings. Really, Chris?) Then this years boring Tour: UK Postal riding together full team up mountains, 2 riders out climbing and out TT'ing everybody. Sagan winning stages and getting points on vertical terrain.

    I really hope Gilbert, Boonen, Evans, Cancellera, Hejsdal, TJ, Voigt, Voeckler, and Sagan, even Cavendish (to name a few) are the real deal. Wiggins and Froome not so much. WTF know with them ? Suspicious team doctors. The blue train being too f'ing good; too much really like Lance's teams. I'm sure there are others.

    Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off.





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  4. #204
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    "Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off."

    thank you.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    "Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off."

    thank you.
    another vote for that idea
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    It wasn't until Floyd's debacle that I gave up on cycling and realized everyone was dirty
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.
    "Be not afraid of going slowly but only of standing still." - Chinese Proverb

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.
    The beginning of the truth about Armstrong for me was when Frankie Andreu and his wife both said they witnessed Lancey Pants tell his cancer doctor that he had used EPO and steroids in his past. At that point in time in the hospital room it was October of 1996 but this was revealed by the Andreus later.

    I think the only way to get illegal drugs and illegal practices out of professional racing is to take the money (endorsements and everything) out of professional racing because the drug chemists always have been and will always be one or two steps ahead of the drug testers. The ultimate solution though is to stop worshiping and idolizing sports stars as some kind of heroes. Good luck with either case given that amateur racers making no money still dope and most people love to make heroes for themselves.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.

    Get back to honest racing ?!? I'm sorry... but apparently you don't know your TdF history very well. One of the earliest rule books stated the organizers were not responsible for paying for the stimulants and drugs used by the riders. Drug usage was always going on in the tour from the very beginning, and its only because of the french press finally making it widely known to the public that any sort of measures were ever adopted to try and get rid of them, and that only started in like the third decade of the tour. And they only adopted them because the public cried foul (not realizing that their own french heroes were using drugs and relying on various drugs to win.... just like everyone else).

    Do i think lance doped? yep... but then so did everyone else...remember when greg lemond kept saying lance doped... greg would of \course had known...since he doped himself... eddy mercx doped, miguel indurein doped... EVERYONE doped. There are a host of drugs not on the banned lists that can enhance a rider's performance... but you don't see them getting hassled for them. Why? Because it simply would not be possible to do a month of back to back double-century rides, at speeds that make it enjoyable to watch the stages on television, with all the ad revenue and money involved. Yeah Lance made money in purses and bonuses...big deal. The TdF organizers made more. And their bribes to the UCI to ignore test results were no doubt quite extensive. The Olympic Commitee and the UCI and other such groups are organized crime wrapped in a fancy wrapper... that's it.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJon View Post
    I voted yes, but he should still keep his titles:
    -partly because I think the USADA is BS.
    -partly because it was endemic in the late 90's and early mid 2000's.
    I don't think that there many who made it into the GC top 20, without doping and their team mates had to dope to help them. It should be the team managers and the UCI taking the rap for this not individual cyclists; it was a systemic problem not fraud or abuse by an individual.
    I think the USADA is BS because I don't see what good muck racking through ancient history to witch hunt an individual has to do with their stated mission of protecting atheletes who don't cheat. All they are doing is tying up resources and budgets that should be used to protect todays atheletes over a sport that has done a lot more than most to clean up its act over the last few years. This appears to me to be either a personal vendetta or publicity stunt by USADA and its management.
    My thoughts as well. Although I polled that I only recently believed so.
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  10. #210
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    He did it but so did everyone else. All should be equally-recognized and stripped of any awards/finishes. Any money they got from US taxpayers should be returned. The whole thing was one big witch hunt but if they are going to do it, by God they should go after EVERYONE!
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwulff View Post
    He did it but so did everyone else. All should be equally-recognized and stripped of any awards/finishes. Any money they got from US taxpayers should be returned. The whole thing was one big witch hunt but if they are going to do it, by God they should go after EVERYONE!
    When you say "EVERYONE" do you mean other than the 10 other people (riders, team doctors, team manager) who have also been charged or sanctioned in this same case together with Armstrong? Or are you looking for a different everyone? Maybe the 15 individuals that are that are going through the last stages before facing criminal charges in Italy for similar cycling-related doping activities?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Why? Because it simply would not be possible to do a month of back to back double-century rides, at speeds that make it enjoyable to watch the stages on television, with all the ad revenue and money involved.
    Wrong, EVERYONE did not dope.
    You say that, but the tour was won by someone who wasn't doped up, Evans!! I have no doubt on other riders being clean.
    You saying the tour can't be won by any rider unless they are doped up is ridiculous, and you've been proved wrong.Your problem is that you are generalizing.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Wrong, EVERYONE did not dope.
    You say that, but the tour was won by someone who wasn't doped up, Evans!!
    You saying the tour can't be won by any rider unless they are doped up is ridiculous, and you've been proved wrong.Your problem is that you are generalizing.
    The riders them selves have a term for clean riders and thats ''bread and water riders' yes they are still around and have always been around the riders say this themselves, everybody thats ever been associated with Cadel says hes clean, you only have to look at the hurt in his eyes n his face during the end of the race to see it, but im not naive to say hes never used, but at this point in time i'll give him the benifit of the doubt, but im not wearing rose coloured glasses when it comes to him or any other rider, anythings possible these days.
    But yes there are clean riders for sure.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  14. #214
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    We the people ...

    Thats true, no one can completely know someone's past. But I'm pretty confident that he was clean when he won the tour ( you had better be clean Evans, don't make me look like a fool)

  15. #215
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    Well, this whole thing became a personal issue for me tonight.

    I was talking with one of my friends while I was wearing my team kit -- I had just gotten home from a road ride with a few teammates. Seeing my kit, he said, "You know that you're forever linked with doping now, right?" I'm hoping that he was being sarcastic, but I can't be too sure, and there are people who legitimately believe that; I still replied that there is massive change occurring in the professional ranks right now. I don't know if I've ever been more offended.

    And this is all because of two primary reasons: there are riders who decided to take illegal drugs, and there are officials who decided to turn a blind eye towards it all. It's too late to change the past, but we need to make sure this never happens again.

    Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen, and all other officials in UCI and USADA who have ever shirked your professional and moral responsibilities, step down now and leave the sport of cycling forever. You've done far too much damage to be able to make up for it. Levi, George, David, all other cyclists who doped, whether you confessed or not, it's time to come clean. Make your peace, and leave the sport. To those who came clean and subsequently lost their jobs, thank you for attempting to do the right thing. I appreciate that you cared enough to be honest with your past, but the truly right thing to do would have been to say "No" in the first place. It's time to clean house and start again.

    I love this sport far too much, and I have far too much pride to be linked, however distantly, with cheaters.
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245 View Post
    Well, this whole thing became a personal issue for me tonight.

    I was talking with one of my friends while I was wearing my team kit -- I had just gotten home from a road ride with a few teammates. Seeing my kit, he said, "You know that you're forever linked with doping now, right?" I'm hoping that he was being sarcastic, but I can't be too sure, and there are people who legitimately believe that; I still replied that there is massive change occurring in the professional ranks right now. I don't know if I've ever been more offended.

    And this is all because of two primary reasons: there are riders who decided to take illegal drugs, and there are officials who decided to turn a blind eye towards it all. It's too late to change the past, but we need to make sure this never happens again.

    Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen, and all other officials in UCI and USADA who have ever shirked your professional and moral responsibilities, step down now and leave the sport of cycling forever. You've done far too much damage to be able to make up for it. Levi, George, David, all other cyclists who doped, whether you confessed or not, it's time to come clean. Make your peace, and leave the sport. To those who came clean and subsequently lost their jobs, thank you for attempting to do the right thing. I appreciate that you cared enough to be honest with your past, but the truly right thing to do would have been to say "No" in the first place. It's time to clean house and start again.

    I love this sport far too much, and I have far too much pride to be linked, however distantly, with cheaters.
    Erik, i'll second that, im not sure why but ive always linked you directly to doping and think you should take this opportunity to come clean, we wont judge you, and im sure you wont get booted off MTBR for it, so send me a PM if you want to get it off your chest,
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245 View Post
    Just saw this post from my teammate:

    "I went to see the Levi Leipheimer Documentary tonight. Showed up, no sound, choppy image, movie cancelled. First he admits and gets sacked by OPQS, now the omerta's claiming his movie. Dang."






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  18. #218
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    I jumped off the Armstrong bandwagon after...

    I watched this Lance Armstrong documentary on CNN.
    Watch CNN listing for reruns of it, you may change your mind.
    A web of deceit……
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  19. #219
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    I saw that same CNN piece. I do question the motives of the people coming clean and throwing Arrmstrong under the bus in exchange for immunity or reduced sentences with regards to banishment from the sport.
    He did dope for sure but so did everyone else. Lance just leveled the playing field. He did ride 7 tours and still had to pedal, but now everyone is piling sh^t on him as-if he was the only one doping...
    "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind. I am not defending the doping part but do admire his tenacity in beating cancer and riding all those miles. His foundation does great work and I am glad that he stepped down from it as not to distract from the good work that has come from it.
    I lost my dad through cancer and hope one day there is a cure. Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    I saw that same CNN piece. I do question the motives of the people coming clean and throwing Arrmstrong under the bus in exchange for immunity or reduced sentences with regards to banishment from the sport.
    He did dope for sure but so did everyone else. Lance just leveled the playing field. He did ride 7 tours and still had to pedal, but now everyone is piling sh^t on him as-if he was the only one doping...
    "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind. I am not defending the doping part but do admire his tenacity in beating cancer and riding all those miles. His foundation does great work and I am glad that he stepped down from it as not to distract from the good work that has come from it.
    I lost my dad through cancer and hope one day there is a cure. Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
    No doubt they were all guilty of it. And it was all admitted in the documentary. They had little proof of Lance doing it so they had to give immunity to the little fish for testimony against the big fish [Lance]. My mom just died of lung cancer so I can understand your thoughts on the foundation.
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
    There are many other organizations that do that deserve support. But Livestrong doesn't do anything toward research and hasn't for years. Your Livestrong donation will not hasten that cure. It does help cancer patients and their families "navigate" the patchy and hostile realms of the US healthcare system. But it also does quite a lot to boost the stature and brand value of one Lance Armstrong. In August 2009, for example, the foundation spent about $7m – a quarter of its annual spend – on a Dublin "summit" whose main purpose seems to have been presenting Armstrong as a kind of global statesman, on the same plane as his role models, Bono and Bill Clinton.

    Perhaps Livestrong should strip Lance Armstrong of one more title: chairman | Bill Gifford | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    Here's s'more interesting reading regarding Livestrong and Lance's personal finances. roopstigo | The Soul of Sports | Inside Livestrong
    Last edited by Bigfoot; 11-25-2012 at 02:50 PM.
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  22. #222
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    ^^ Interesting read from roopstigo... Sad story all around really..
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  23. #223
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    absolutely NO.

  24. #224
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    Don't wanna believe he did, but who knows...

  25. #225
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    I voted #4

    That is I think they all dope, or at least did as much as they possibly could, and always have been. its that type of sport where small gains count. Either your last of first.

    I don't think this sport will ever be clean, but its still a sport. And they do their best out there.
    Thats what we all want to see.
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  26. #226
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    The thread that keeps on giving.

  27. #227
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    Hehe its only 2 months old

    I hadn't seen it at least. wasn't looking either really but still.
    I have to vote right??
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    Specialized sucks ass.

  28. #228
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    Geez, I am truly amazed at how naive and gullible some of the replies are, in this thread.
    It isn't about whether LA is innocent or guilty in a court of law. Did he take PED's? Yes.
    The reason he's being exposed, is for the level of deception, and corruption he created.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If everyone in the field was cheating, what does it matter as far as race results go?
    Exact what i try to explain to my teacher. I hope she will come to reason and let me pass my grade.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If everyone in the field was cheating, what does it matter as far as race results go?
    Because not everybody gets to cheat at the same level. Lance paid the testers ahead of time to know when testing was coming days in advance. The other riders did not get a warning. Lance got to stay doped up longer, so it was not all the same for everyone.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If everyone in the field was cheating, what does it matter as far as race results go?



    Not everyone was cheating. This is just one more fallacy that is propagated by the legions of fans that cannot support any argument about doping without resorting to lies, half truthes and innuendo. When the truth wont do, baffle them with bullsh!t.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If everyone in the field was cheating, what does it matter as far as race results go?
    It matters because Evans and Wiggins and etc did not cheat. They won the tour on their own without the aid of dope. If you need to take dope, you know for a fact that you're no good at the sport and need a way to "cheat" to win. Most can be successful while doped, not everyone can win while clean. Lance needed dope to remain at a high level, to me that says he isn't good at the sport at an elite level (but he's competitive when juiced up), compared to Evans or Wiggins.

    LA is singled out, mainly because of his antics. But, the guy is pretty dense. Who on earth was he trying to fool by winning 7 TDF titles, it had never been done before and something that no one could of done. He farked himself over, he did it by himself without the help of anyone, what does that say about him?
    Last edited by SV11; 12-09-2012 at 10:54 PM.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Ok, if everyone was cheating, of course some could cheat better than others. Does that degrade the sport element of things? Of course, it does, but so does the fact that everyone is cheating. So, the argument that all were cheating but Lance cheated better than others (and is therefore a bad dude) is not one I find convincing - personally.

    If it is true that cheating was not universal or near-universal, then yes, that changes everything. What I've seen including interviews with Landis and Andreu seems to imply it was quite widespread. But I don't have firsthand knowledge of that. The story I got from what I've seen and read was that he started cheating because the Europeans were doing it all over the place already.
    Why pick on poor Lance?
    Because he deceived millions, and corrupted an entire sport. The others just doped. Big difference.

  34. #234
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    Everyone has this "follow the leader" kind of mentality, thats why "because everyone was doping" gets bought up a lot. Who cares if others were doping, latter winners of the TDF proved that you don't need to be doped up to win the tour among doped riders. So that kind of bs (because everyone was doping) holds no water, it never had and it never will.
    People don't realise how obsurd they are starting to sound.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Why is it absurd.
    Mainly, because LA's fans are iggnorant to the facts.
    They create hypotheticals, rather than looking at the facts.

    The reason why they are focusing on one guy is becasue he is right in the middle of the biggest fraud in the history of sport. This goes way beyond doping.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Why is it absurd?

    I think it is absurd that we have an "Anti Doping Agency" that receives federal funds, that prosecutes athletes who competed years earlier in international cycling events that are privately sanctioned and located in France. Someone show me that in the Constitution.

    But aside from that, if everyone was doping, during those years, then it is absurd to focus on one guy who won, on the basis he was doping.
    Dave, i think its absurd that there are people that hold the views that you do, mate your a classic case of somebody who actually knows very little on the topic who has his head buried firmly in the sand....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Yep, everyone in LA is 'iggnorant" and "creates hypotheticals" ummm-hmmm, yeah, that sounds like some solid logic there.

    So then explain it - if i am "giving hypotehticals" you are just giving a conclusion...show your analysis.

    Dude, LA = Lance Armstrong.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    to the contrary, my head isn't buried in the sand "mate"...

    See if you can follow along now:

    I posted a belief that as far as race results go, who cares if he was doping, since everyone else was too.

    There have been some responses that say "not everyone was doping." Ok, well, what's your source, why do you think that? I'd love to know. But to just say I am wrong and ignorant and have my head int he sand without pointing to a single fact, is pretty weak.
    Mate, wheres your source to say every body was doping.
    Your carrying on that they are only targeting the guy that won, thats ridiculous, 21 from the last 26 place getters from the tour have been caught and exposed as drug cheats, is that just targeting lance is it?

    Pro cyclists have a term for clean riders they call them 'bread and water' riders, even pro cyclists admit there are still plenty in the tour, more often than not they are not top place getters.
    Cadel Evens is a world renound anti doper, and you can see it in his face at the end of a race.
    Yes i agree that the majority of them are , but that doesnt mean every or all...
    Thats the old chestnut thats put out by lance lovers.
    The USADA put egg in all a lot of peoples faces, they got their man big time, they only have the juristriction to investigate US cyclists not every other cyclist in the world.
    they have done the states proud, got the biggest fish in the biggest pond and some like yourself cant accept that a fellow American who you thought was the greatest has turned out to be the biggest cheat in the history of sport.
    Suck it up mate, and stop trying to make up ******** to get over your butthurt..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Yep, everyone in LA is 'iggnorant" and "creates hypotheticals" ummm-hmmm, yeah, that sounds like some solid logic there.
    ,
    So then explain it - if i am "giving hypotehticals," you are just giving a conclusion...show your analysis.
    LOL, the first paragraph really says it all about Daves knowledge on the subject, i'll leave it here and let the quote above do all the talking.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  40. #240
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    I don't think it's fair to put any of the riders or especially the winners on a higher level of anti-doping yet. They haven't been proven to have cheated and speak out against it of course, but so did Lance and all the others over the years. For all we know, Wiggins could win the next few tours as well and then 10 years from now we could find out that him and the rest of his team was on some new drug that couldn't be detected at the time.

    This entire thing sadely makes it impossible to really trust any of them.....

  41. #241
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    Lance just can't catch a break

    Sunday Times sues Lance Armstrong

    LONDON -- Lance Armstrong is being sued for more than $1.5 million by a British newspaper over the settlement of a libel action, which followed doping allegations against the cyclist that it published.


    It is clear that the proceedings were baseless and fraudulent. Your representations that you had never taken performance enhancing drugs were deliberately false.

    -- Sunday Times, in letter to Lance Armstrong's lawyers
    The Sunday Times paid Armstrong 300,000 pounds (now about $485,000) in 2006 to settle a case after it reprinted claims from a book in 2004 that he took performance-enhancing drugs.

    The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency concluded this year that Armstrong led a massive doping program on his teams. Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling for life.

    The Sunday Times announced in an article in its latest edition that it has issued legal papers against Armstrong.

    "It is clear that the proceedings were baseless and fraudulent," the paper said in a letter to Armstrong's lawyers. "Your representations that you had never taken performance enhancing drugs were deliberately false."

    The paper, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., said its total claim against Armstrong is "likely to exceed" 1 million pounds ($1.6 million).

    "The Sunday Times is now demanding a return of the settlement payment plus interest, as well as its costs in defending the case," the paper said.
    Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!
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  42. #242
    Ride More, Work Less
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    He has many more of these to face.
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  43. #243
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    Well, If Barry Bonds is saying he didn't... who am I to argue.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    Sunday Times sues Lance Armstrong

    LONDON -- Lance Armstrong is being sued for more than $1.5 million by a British newspaper over the settlement of a libel action, which followed doping allegations against the cyclist that it published.


    It is clear that the proceedings were baseless and fraudulent. Your representations that you had never taken performance enhancing drugs were deliberately false.

    -- Sunday Times, in letter to Lance Armstrong's lawyers
    The Sunday Times paid Armstrong 300,000 pounds (now about $485,000) in 2006 to settle a case after it reprinted claims from a book in 2004 that he took performance-enhancing drugs.

    The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency concluded this year that Armstrong led a massive doping program on his teams. Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling for life.

    The Sunday Times announced in an article in its latest edition that it has issued legal papers against Armstrong.

    "It is clear that the proceedings were baseless and fraudulent," the paper said in a letter to Armstrong's lawyers. "Your representations that you had never taken performance enhancing drugs were deliberately false."

    The paper, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., said its total claim against Armstrong is "likely to exceed" 1 million pounds ($1.6 million).

    "The Sunday Times is now demanding a return of the settlement payment plus interest, as well as its costs in defending the case," the paper said.
    To see Rupert Murdock facing off with Lance Armstrong in lawsuits over ethics is, well, entertaining. Ironic is perhaps a better word for it.

  45. #245
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    I think it is absurd that we have an "Anti Doping Agency" that receives federal funds, that prosecutes athletes who competed years earlier in international cycling events that are privately sanctioned and located in France. Someone show me that in the Constitution.
    the Constitution has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. when a racer applies for and is granted a racing license they willingly and voluntarily subjugate themselves to the various governing bodies of the sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb
    But aside from that, if everyone was doping, during those years, then it is absurd to focus on one guy who won, on the basis he was doping.
    you indeed have had your head buried in the sand if you think LA's the only rider of focus during those years or any other. specific to the period in question he was merely the most prominent and one of the few that maintained innocence in the face of overwhelming evidence -- to the extent of suing in retaliation those who even suggested he doped.

    hence, this is but the first of many lawsuits that he will enjoy subsequent to this guilt being firmly and irrevocably established.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave4mtb
    I posted a belief that as far as race results go, who cares if he was doping, since everyone else was too.
    the guys who weren't doping certainly cared. the guys who had the integrity to race clean even if it meant never standing on the podium. the guys who weren't worthless bags of excrement who eschewed the philosophy of "win at any cost and by any means" certainly cared.

    the whole "who cares cuz everyone was doping" is a blind fanboi statement uttered out of pure ignorance of the facts and of road racing in general -- not to mention belying the same questionable personal ethics mirroring those who thought it was ok to lie/cheat/bully to win.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    -- not to mention belying the same questionable personal ethics mirroring those who thought it was ok to lie/cheat/bully to win.
    Yup... this...
    It's all Here. Now.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    the Constitution has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. when a racer applies for and is granted a racing license they willingly and voluntarily subjugate themselves to the various governing bodies of the sport.
    yep, but the USADA wasn't actually a governing body when Lance first started racing. it didn't exist. It actually has zero power outside the USA and in fact has been proven many times as leading witch hunts against athletes to try and give the public image to the media that the USA is tough on drug users. That's its sole purpose for existing. If there had been actual real provable evidence against lance, the justice department would NOT have dropped their case against him last year. They'd have filed criminal charges and taken him into a court of law. Not a court of public opinion.

    hence, this is but the first of many lawsuits that he will enjoy subsequent to this guilt being firmly and irrevocably established.
    In what court was this guilt firmly established? Oh wait... none. Maybe in the puppet court of the backroom of the USADA headquarters when they decided ahead of time that Lance was guilty. Its amusing how all the racers who were dopers who were "witnesses" have gotten slap on the wrist suspensions for their "reliable" testimonies and Lance is given a lifetime ban. The UCI was well within their rights to deny the USADA's claims, as is IOC still (since he was no doubt blood tested at the time he won his bronze medal and didn't test positive for anything they were testing for). All the evidence since the USADA didn't actually ever have access to his actual blood and urine tests, nor the authority to ever gain access to them was based on personal testimony of proven liars. Only a complete moron would believe that is enough to firmly and irrevocably prove Lance was guilty also.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    yep, but the USADA wasn't actually a governing body when Lance first started racing. it didn't exist. It actually has zero power outside the USA and in fact has been proven many times as leading witch hunts against athletes to try and give the public image to the media that the USA is tough on drug users. That's its sole purpose for existing. If there had been actual real provable evidence against lance, the justice department would NOT have dropped their case against him last year. They'd have filed criminal charges and taken him into a court of law. Not a court of public opinion.



    In what court was this guilt firmly established? Oh wait... none. Maybe in the puppet court of the backroom of the USADA headquarters when they decided ahead of time that Lance was guilty. Its amusing how all the racers who were dopers who were "witnesses" have gotten slap on the wrist suspensions for their "reliable" testimonies and Lance is given a lifetime ban. The UCI was well within their rights to deny the USADA's claims, as is IOC still (since he was no doubt blood tested at the time he won his bronze medal and didn't test positive for anything they were testing for).
    Please, really...... you need to do some research, the USADA had a mountain of evidence, from first hand witnesses, to finacial records, phone records, paper trails, failed blood tests that were covered up by team doctors etc, the reason Lance ran away from the evidence is that he knew it was unbeatable, he knew he would look like a liar and a cheat and he would loose everything to litigation against him.
    The USADA put egg and humble pie in many peoples faces, they proved the doubters wrong.
    Are you saying that over 20 first hand witnesses are lying and its a big conspiricy lol
    To say he passed all blood tests is outright false information, mate the guy is as guilty as sin, he doesnt have a leg to stand on and he is a boarderline sociopath.

    The USADA is the only thing that give the whole situation ant credit at all, they have done the states proud, and bought down the biggest cheat, bully and liar in the history of sport, and thats a fact....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  49. #249
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    If there was a mountain of evidence, why didn't they submit it to the US justice department or even to a US federal prosecutor in some random state looking to make a name for him/herself ? Why was this not presented in an ACTUAL courtroom where there is a real burden of proof to be met... oh that's right...because it wasn't real proof. It was a stacked deck of heresay and slander where they'd decided his guilt ahead of time, and done everything they could to manufacture the proof of that afterwards, even going so far as to solicit testimony from other proven liars, in exchange for sweet deals.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  50. #250
    dwt
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    There are people who believe OJ did not kill his wife, that Elvis lives, that alien beings live among us, and that Lance Armstrong was clean.

    And that Tonight Santa Claus will land on their roof. If they are lucky he will give them Tyler Hamilton's book, "The Secret Race" and they will learn something true about professional cycling in the 90's and the first decade of the 00's.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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