View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #351
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    Dave, if your a Lawyer, you must have bribed somebody to get your qualifications.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  2. #352
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    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    First, Lance had to be taking testosterone because he had a testicle remove, which means he was producing a very small amount of his own testosterone. However the problem lays within the question of what’s a normal test level? Go into any high school class to see why that’s such a difficult question… some males like they are 24 and others like they are 14..why? Because everyone produces such a wide range of hormone levels… The avg male produces 400 to 1200 mcg of test. So one racer could be at 440 and Lance could be at 1199 (prescribed test) and both normal.
    Not sure where you are going with this. Armstrong's use of PEDs and banned methods according to the charges, mountain of testimony, and supporting evidence, is largely related to EPO and blood transfusions. "T" isn't a central issue.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If you go back and read, and try to do it slowly enough that it might penetrate your faulty cognition, you will find that I said that when prosecutions are dropped, that usually means there is a problem with the evidence and that the prosecutor thinks he can't get a conviction.
    Since you are very focused on the DOJ case, I think it's critical to remind once again that this investigation was for fraud and criminal conspiracy i.e. financial crimes. The investigation wasn't directly aimed at anti-doping violations, since these are not criminal offences - as has been pointed out already by others and acknowledged by you earlier in this thread if I'm not mistaken. The DOJ case wasn't for doping charges, therefore no doping charges were dropped by the DOJ.

    On the other hand, the USADA case was for anti-doping violations. We all know the outcome there.

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    typically devoid of substance, yet proclaiming victory.

    Your buddy posts nonsense accusations about my prior posts

    I ask him to prove it.

    He can't. Neither can you. You both fail. Miserably..
    You are impossible, you did this with with a few others in this thread, lol.
    You're BF is guilty, we want blood!

  6. #356
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    But at any rate the basic point is the league had been on a “witch hunt” with Lance since he won his first Tour De France… and it was never proven.
    wrong. it was well proven.

    LA failed numerous tests, did a huge payoff to make one of his failed tests disappear, and was under suspicion and investigation for doping and conspiracy while actively racing.

    investigating a racer with history of doping, failed drug tests, intimidation, bribery, extortion, cheating, and lying can hardly be considered a "witch hunt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    I think once someone is no longer competing, than it’s no longer an issue… game over! If he was caught like many others within months of when they competed, then he is busted and all awards removed for cheating. But part of the responsibility of the league is prove it while they are competing....
    think and believe whatever you want, you certainly have that right.

    however, in the REAL WORLD that exists beyond the confines of your beliefs when a racer applies for and is granted a license they willingly and voluntarily agree to be subjugated to the governing authorities.

    there is no statute of limitations in cycling to catch cheaters and strip them of titles/results if they are later found to have cheated. lance (and everyone else with a racing license) agreed to these conditions by applying for a license. lance (and everyone else with a racing license) agreed to these conditions by being a professional racer.

    point being that all the license holding professional racers didn't have a problem with it -- so then why do you?
    Last edited by monogod; 12-30-2012 at 03:37 AM.
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  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    typically devoid of substance, yet proclaiming victory.

    Your buddy posts nonsense accusations about my prior posts

    i ask him to prove it.

    He can't. Neither can you. You both fail. Miserably.

    I give it a d-, mostly because you've put in so much effort. You can do better.
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    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  8. #358
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    Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean..

    I believe Lance is clean for the first 5 minutes he exits the shower every day. Anything beyond that is a well kept secret only he and his 100 or so inside circle of friends know for sure. Hey wait a minute weren't 80% of those subpoenaed to testify against him. And it soon became apparent to all how clean he really was.
    Opinions vary…Road House highlights 04 - YouTube
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  9. #359
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    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…

  10. #360
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Good a time as any to exit the thread. You were called out Tones, and you came up with nothing. Zeo, zilch, nada. Though you did say Lance is my "bff" and did some more name calling.
    you're a day late and dollar short leaving this thread, champ. for you to claim ANY type victory at this point makes just about as much sense as claiming the mayans were correct that 12-21-12 was the end of the world.

    but hey, by this time we're used to you pretty much talking out the southern most extremity of your g.i. tract...
    Last edited by monogod; 12-30-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…
    I agree Dead Dog no one can say for sure and positively if he is or isn't guilty unless you were there. All we have to go on is evidence or lack of evidence that he doped. It's just like any crime unless you are there you have to go by evidence and credible or non credible witnesses. Go through the evidence and make an educated decision.

    I was on the Lance bandwagon for years and years thinking he was innocent of all accusations. That all changed in my mind once I saw the Lance Documentary on CNN. I think once you view this if you are on the bandwagon you may make a leap off.
    CNN Documentary 'The World According to Lance Armstrong' Exposes Web of Deceit | Bleacher Report
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  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…
    people for whom nothing exists without their first hand direct knowledge live in very tiny, myopic microcosms of their own delusional creation.

    this what we call a "cognition and reality problem" over here on MTBR...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  13. #363
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    "Doping" is such a fine line.
    Altitude chambers, food, etc.

    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!

    To do it 7-8-9 times Good for YOU!

  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    "Doping" is such a fine line.
    Altitude chambers, food, etc.

    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!

    To do it 7-8-9 times Good for YOU!
    "Doping" is not such a fine line.

    not even close.

    Doping is the difference between winning the TDF and being a peloton filler.

  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!
    how many did LA finish before he started doping?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  16. #366
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    osokolo - Really?

    When they test for doping there are no limits to the tests?
    Do you know the specifics of the tests?
    Do run them?

    As an engineer that creates and runs tests, xxx level in your blood is the trigger point. 0.0001% over the limit = busted, 0.0001% under and you are good. It may be limited to the ability of the machine to read it, but it is not zero.

    Show me the data!

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    how many did LA finish before he started doping?
    That's like asking how many men it took to build the great pyramids. No one knows and it will for always be a mystery. Ask Lance!
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  18. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    osokolo - Really?

    When they test for doping there are no limits to the tests?
    Do you know the specifics of the tests?
    Do run them?

    As an engineer that creates and runs tests, xxx level in your blood is the trigger point. 0.0001% over the limit busted, 0.0001% under and you are good. It may be limited to the ability of the machine to read it, but it is not zero.

    Show me the data!
    as a former athlete, who tried stuff that is waaaaay less powerful than EPO - i can tell you that it was a HUGE difference maker.

    just to clarify above statement - i tried banned substance just for the sake of trying - after i retired from high level competition. never used PED during my athletic career.

    the difference is stunning.

    i can tell you that PED can make the difference from the middle of the road athlete to the winner...

    you can talk your engineering language as much as you want. i am telling you a real life story.

  19. #369
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    The only way to tell if Lance is as good as he has portrayed himself to be to win 9 TDF titles. Is to let him race it again and give him full allowance to use any and all drugs he wants. But you must also drug up all competitors to make it fair.
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  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    That's like asking how many men it took to build the great pyramids. No one knows and it will for always be a mystery. Ask Lance!
    um.... no. that's like asking how many tours LA finished before he started doping. (hint: none)

    however, unlike the construction of the pyramids plethoric sworn eye-witness testimony and evidence (i.e. failed drug tests) of his doping exists so it's hardly speculation.

    "ask lance"? um... no again. as a confirmed and documented perjurer, liar, blackmailer, and extortionist LA's credibility is wholly non-existent.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    as a former athlete, who tried stuff that is waaaaay less powerful than EPO - i can tell you that it was a HUGE difference maker.

    just to clarify above statement - i tried banned substance just for the sake of trying - after i retired from high level competition. never used PED during my athletic career.

    the difference is stunning.

    i can tell you that PED can make the difference from the middle of the road athlete to the winner...

    you can talk your engineering language as much as you want. i am telling you a real life story.
    And I started taking viagra after I swore off sex...

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?
    I wasn't there for 99% of the stories I read online, in magazines or even in newspapers. Doesn't mean I can't find factual info amongst the BS and achieve an informed opinion
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    And I started taking viagra after I swore off sex...
    your inability to achieve an erection is wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    um.... no. that's like asking how many tours LA finished before he started doping. (hint: none)

    however, unlike the construction of the pyramids plethoric sworn eye-witness testimony and evidence (i.e. failed drug tests) of his doping exists so it's hardly speculation.

    "ask lance"? um... no again. as a confirmed and documented perjurer, liar, blackmailer, and extortionist LA's credibility is wholly non-existent.
    Everything you said in response to what I said falls under the same belief. Just slightly worded different with a lot more hostility in your response than mine.
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  25. #375
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    Some of you need to watch "the world according to lance".
    He dopped up in his first TDF till the last. He had a drug cloud hanging over his head, from then till now. I remember that to this day watching it on the news.

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