View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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533. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #551
    No Stranger to danger....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard0son View Post
    This appears to me to be either a personal vendetta or publicity stunt by USADA and its management.
    LOL, Richo, whats doing ???? your not on any substances are you Rich, come on you can tell me, i was there once, it helps to talk to others that have been there too......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  2. #552
    El Gato Malo
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  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    And in other news.....sun rises in east.
    ...Bears proven to defecate in the wild
    ...Pope decides Catholicism is 'for him'.
    It's all Here. Now.

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I have seen, talked to, and had beers with Greg LeMond. I believe in him.
    I have been close friends with Greg, his wife Kathy and their 3 kids. I have been on numerous trips out west hunting, fishing and skiing with Greg over the last 23 years. I spent 2 weeks last summer at Greg and Kathy's place at the Yellowstone Club up in Big Sky Mt. with my kids last summer...


    I have always believe in Greg...
    Last edited by Stugotz; 01-15-2013 at 11:34 AM.
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  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    .... i just like to make a few dramatic statements...
    Well if that's what you were going for, I think you are there.

  6. #556
    Big Mac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    I have been close friends with Greg, his wife Kathy and their 3 kids. I have been on numerous trips out west hunting, fishing and skiing with Greg over the last 23 years. I spent 2 weeks last summer at Greg and Kathy's place at the Yellowstone Club up in Big Sky Mt. with my kids last summer... I believe in Greg...
    I'd say he's a top notch fellow. Seemed to be anyway.

  7. #557
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    Haven't paid attention to this thread since I posted it and saw the results a few days later.

    All I have to add is it sucks finding out all your childhood heroes are frauds, liars, and cheats. Not just LA, but Mark McGwire was my hero. Watching him hit a homerun in his big season as an 8 year old is something that I'll never forget. Sucks now that I know what really propelled that ball.

  8. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    And in other news.....sun rises in east.
    confirmed in the west as well.
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  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    You all should be banned from breeding you are so stupid, and if you have bred i feel sorry for your children because you have passed on the stupidest genes in the planet...
    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Tone's, I will gladly raise my hand again and tell you I voted No. Not that I think he is innocent. I have posted a few times that I don't care about it nearly as much as you, and some others here. I voted No just because that part of the poll was lagging behind and I wanted to boost the number. And it's funny to see people froth at the mouth, furiously slamming away at their keyboard about it.

    To base your opinion of people simply because they clicked a voting button on an MTBR thread, without knowing why they clicked it, makes you seem shallow. Going off on those people, and saying the things you did, makes you come off like an irrational prick.

    I know you have previously said you don't hate LA, but it's more of a disdain you have for him. But the venom you spew about him makes me believe he hurt you directly. You shouldn't spend so much time and energy on LA if he didn't hurt you on a personal level.
    It was a little more then, "naive" comment. I think it was the stupid and breeding comment. It really was way overboard and not called for. And, deserves neg rep!

    EDIT: Neg rep to Tone's, that is.
    Last edited by Mountain Cycle Shawn; 01-15-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #560
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I think it was the stupid and breeding comment.
    As Tone's has described many times in his previous posts, he has tried enough ways of breeding to pick up the slack for others. In his own way, I think he is just encouraging others to breed a little less to keep the global breeding equilibrium at a good balance point, given his excesses.

  11. #561
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    I just gave two people in here a 7 day timeout for name calling and flaming.

    Disagree, okay. Debate, fine. But do it without name calling.
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  12. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Mate your a bloke that belittles others and name calls then at the same time accuse others of doing it, you love to make out your a victim and a saint, your above few posts are prime
    I find this ironic after reading some of your posts!

  13. #563
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    talent propelled that ball and legs and lungs propelled the other. He hit 70 that season and the other doper hit 72 the next year. So what. Neither are in the hall yet but i'd bet BB gets there before Mark (who will never be elected at least in category and the way voting works now).

    i don't really care what happens and yes I think it bad to cheat but I will always be a fan of Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, and the late 20th/early 21st century pro-peloton edit--oh, less the Schleck Bros--something seems extra smart-alecky/pretentious/snob-ridden and etc about those two.


    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy135 View Post
    Haven't paid attention to this thread since I posted it and saw the results a few days later.

    All I have to add is it sucks finding out all your childhood heroes are frauds, liars, and cheats. Not just LA, but Mark McGwire was my hero. Watching him hit a homerun in his big season as an 8 year old is something that I'll never forget. Sucks now that I know what really propelled that ball.

  14. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    edit--oh, less the Schleck Bros--something seems extra smart-alecky/pretentious/snob-ridden and etc about those two.
    I agree, and don't forget whiny, wimpy and nerdy. You can't be a grand tour winner if you don't have sand to Time Trial competitively. These two are one trick ponies, climbers only.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  15. #565
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    If Lance says he doped in the Oprah interview I won't believe him.
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  16. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    If Lance says he doped in the Oprah interview I won't believe him.
    who would believe him anyway, big deal.

    it was never proven in court. i don't care if he says he did.
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  17. #567
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    who fvcking cares.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
    http://about.me/bigterry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch3637 View Post
    I don't need sex. My life fvcks me daily.

  18. #568
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    who fvcking cares.
    I can only speak for myself and confirm that I care.

    However, thousands of posts on mtbr, tens of thousands of posts on roadie forums, endless media coverage in print, web, radio, and TV, etc. does suggest that others also care.

  19. #569
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    why? does it affect your life, personally, to know if he doped? for some reason i doubt it, other than to give you some inner peace or self-satisfaction to "know the truth."

    i think he did, and everyone else did- and i dont care, nor should anyone else. there are far more important things in life to worry about besides the uniball rider and his needle tracks.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
    http://about.me/bigterry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch3637 View Post
    I don't need sex. My life fvcks me daily.

  20. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    why? does it affect your life, personally, to know if he doped? for some reason i doubt it, other than to give you some inner peace or self-satisfaction to "know the truth."

    i think he did, and everyone else did- and i dont care, nor should anyone else. there are far more important things in life to worry about besides the uniball rider and his needle tracks.
    Actually it does affect me personally. I am closely involved with organized cycling in many capacities at a club, events, and regional level. The massive negative publicity surrounding he Armstrong affair impacts the efforts of me and my colleagues when handling sponsorships, program donations, interest in youth programs, etc. It has caused many people to think twice about getting involved, and becomes a topic in many of those discussions with people who might have been very willing to help, but now think that maybe they should put their sponsorships, participation of their kids, etc. toward other pursuits.

    Whether there's any legitimate reason for thinking cycling is worse than a number of other sports is up for debate, but regardless of the merits that's not a preferred way to start a dialogue with potential new entrants and contributors to the cycling community.

    Is that real enough for you?

  21. #571
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    i think it should have no relevance at all to whatever your pursuits may be. lance was a pro athlete who used PEDs, just like countles other pro athletes over the years who used PEDs and got caught. And kids still play football, and baseball, and run track, and ride bikes... and parents still let their kids play sports, and companies big and small still sponsor youth sporting organizations despite the alleged misconduct by certain athletes.

    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike. If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig. Thats as ridiculous as me telling my son hes not allowed to go swimming at the pool this summer because Michael Phelps smoked a bong.

    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  22. #572
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    Drawing a blank
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 01-15-2013 at 11:07 PM.
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  23. #573
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    hey guys, lets talk mountain biking again.

    All this Lance "Roadie Cirque Du Soleil" Armstrong debate has gone on long enough.

    I was trying to avoid posting in any of these threads but it was inevitable considering how often and how much new Lance threads pop up.

    I say converge all the Lance threads into one big thread and leave it like that. You could probably even make a new section in the forum dedicated to Lance. I'm sure it would be a very active forum. All the sponsors would love to get an ad in that section.
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  24. #574
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    "If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig."

    it's not lance alone. lance is just the tip of the iceberg. the actions of lance and many others have cast a negative light on competitive cycling.

    read this and focus on the twenty years between 1992 and 2012. it's pretty massive:

    List of doping cases in cycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  25. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    I don't mean to sidetrack this beautiful decade long debate but……
    Could someone point out the post or posts in this thread that got Tone and someone else a 7 day time out. I'm not seeing it. All I see in Tone making an opinionated blanket statement of a group of posters that have a different opinion than he does. Did I miss something?
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.
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  26. #576
    meh... whatever
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    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom. it's concerning that someone can get away with as much as LA did, even more so because he was able to via being enabled and protected by the very governing bodies that are put in place to prevent such fraud.

    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business. from either the sport or business aspect if one is going to be a pro athlete and agree to be bound by certain rules/policies/procedures then it's not out of line to be angry when someone dominates the sport by disregarding them, is enabled by the very ones put in place to police the sport, and destroys those who stand in his way.

    time and again what seems to be of more insult is not so much that LA doped, but his behavior in general. his character of throwing everyone under the bus. of being a bully. he has demonstrated that he is a sociopath who genuinely believed the rules did not apply to him and when cornered used power, influence, money, and even the legal system to silence any who called him out for his abhorrent actions.

    almost a decade of LA's sociopathic shenanigans is quite different from just making a mistake, realizing it, coming clean out of searing of conscience, and making amends.

    the general ire seems to be not just that he cheated but that he went to such great lengths to cover it up and continued to lie about it in the face of overwhelming evidence. that he destroyed peoples lives when they came clean about it. that he vociferously denied and went after people privately and publicly destroying lives and careers in the process of covering up his actions.

    and now that it will benefit him he wants to come clean and apologize? now that he wants something, i.e. to be reinstated to compete in triathlons, he's willing to make a full admission?

    imho his apology is nothing but the next very thought out and calculated move by a sociopath.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  27. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike.
    Kids are always going to continue riding their bikes. I could get more sponsors involved to help support even more kids riding their bikes if the doping went down.

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits
    Clients are accounts one makes money from. I volunteer my time and effort to non-profits (small and large) involved in cycling. We don't have "clients".

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig.
    Wish that were the case, but that's not my reality. Every doper in cycling makes it more difficult for me to do my stuff. Armstrong has made it more difficult than any other 10 combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    I won't be watching Oprah, but if you want you can post up a summary here after it airs.

  28. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazukea View Post
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.
    I think it's a different LA thread. Heck there are like 30.

  29. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    i think it should have no relevance at all to whatever your pursuits may be. lance was a pro athlete who used PEDs, just like countles other pro athletes over the years who used PEDs and got caught. And kids still play football, and baseball, and run track, and ride bikes... and parents still let their kids play sports, and companies big and small still sponsor youth sporting organizations despite the alleged misconduct by certain athletes.

    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike. If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig. Thats as ridiculous as me telling my son hes not allowed to go swimming at the pool this summer because Michael Phelps smoked a bong.

    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    Damn, I wish I could rep this comment! I'll be back.
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  30. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom.
    Corrupt top to bottom? Is this where I should confess I did caffeine shots on my way to my Cat 3 Short Track podium last summer?

    Are we big into drama?
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  31. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    Corrupt top to bottom? Is this where I should confess I did caffeine shots on my way to my Cat 3 Short Track podium last summer?
    That would depend on whether or not it stipulates that caffeine is yay or nay in the rules and regulations, it's the riders responsibility to be up to date with what they can/can't comsume during an event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    Are we big into drama?
    It seems to me you're trying to create some.

  32. #582
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    I say lock this thread. Too much drama, members being banned, and lots of unnecessary butthurt.

    We can all see that this is starting to head south.
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  33. #583
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  34. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    The Lung speaks!

    Not giving my opinion on criminalizing sports doping, but "sporting fraud" (including doping) is already a criminal offence in some other countries.

  35. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Just lock out the hitler youth who can't discuas the issue like adults. Virtually no one is arguing he is clean. For the most part there is a disagreement about what should be done about his dirtyness...
    Michael Vick is back playing football. Why not let lance ride TDF?

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  36. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    Michael Vick is back playing football. Why not let lance ride TDF?
    Vick didn't cheat within competition.

    (or at least not that we know of )

  37. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    this from ned overend. remember him?
    I do know who Ned Overend is, and respect him greatly, as should every mtn biker. He had is glory days (NORBA and UCI) and has just kept racing (XTERRA, triathlon, cyclocross and 5-time winner of the Durango Iron Horse race as recently as 2011) and at least in the recent past has ridden in the open pro class at some mountain bike races. I think now he is more focused on age group racing. He is an athlete and competitor at heart. I suspect that Specialized now pays the rent, but he just keeps turning the pedals.
    Awesome guy.

  38. #588
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    DJ------AEDubber's offense was in a different LA thread where he told someone in less genteel words to blow him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazukea View Post
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.

  39. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post

  40. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    Vick didn't cheat within competition.

    (or at least not that we know of )
    Touché.

    Sent from somewhere not sitting on my ass in front of the computer.
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  41. #591
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    here is doping from an amateur mountain bike racer's perspective:

    Doping in Amateur Cycling | The Bikinator | Angie Sokorai

    and if you don't click the link in this young lady's blog, i've clicked it for you:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sp...nks.html?_r=2&

  42. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business.
    Whoa. What? A multi-trillion dollar business?

    Do you have the accounting data to substantiate that financial figure?

    Multi-trillion?

  43. #593
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    personally, i'm in total agreement with uncle ned.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  44. #594
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    Ned has a good idea, cheater in sport steal money! It's not just a game when there money involve, Olympic is supposed to be for amatory, there are no money involve our very little, except for some number 1...

    Do you think Lance could have a deal with Oprah in order to make money with is tonight show? Oprah will most likely have a good auditor tonight, Publicity will be expensive tonight.

    Just an idea, he may earn the money to pay is law suit at least National Post (UK) and the insurance companies in Texas...

    Would be an Armstrong Performance to take advantage (cheat) on its cheat confession...

  45. #595
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    100% agree

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom. it's concerning that someone can get away with as much as LA did, even more so because he was able to via being enabled and protected by the very governing bodies that are put in place to prevent such fraud.

    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business. from either the sport or business aspect if one is going to be a pro athlete and agree to be bound by certain rules/policies/procedures then it's not out of line to be angry when someone dominates the sport by disregarding them, is enabled by the very ones put in place to police the sport, and destroys those who stand in his way.

    time and again what seems to be of more insult is not so much that LA doped, but his behavior in general. his character of throwing everyone under the bus. of being a bully. he has demonstrated that he is a sociopath who genuinely believed the rules did not apply to him and when cornered used power, influence, money, and even the legal system to silence any who called him out for his abhorrent actions.

    almost a decade of LA's sociopathic shenanigans is quite different from just making a mistake, realizing it, coming clean out of searing of conscience, and making amends.

    the general ire seems to be not just that he cheated but that he went to such great lengths to cover it up and continued to lie about it in the face of overwhelming evidence. that he destroyed peoples lives when they came clean about it. that he vociferously denied and went after people privately and publicly destroying lives and careers in the process of covering up his actions.

    and now that it will benefit him he wants to come clean and apologize? now that he wants something, i.e. to be reinstated to compete in triathlons, he's willing to make a full admission?

    imho his apology is nothing but the next very thought out and calculated move by a sociopath.
    He is caught and he is desperate ... The only good thing that can come from this would the doctors and pushers of dope get punished. LA needs to be sued by everyone he has sued. Then he needs to serve time, yes he is a criminal. He is done.

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