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  1. #1
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    A distrubing encounter

    I met an older guy on a really trick new carbon framed bike at the parking lot for the Gateway trail (Mt. Shasta, CA). We talked as riders are wont to do. I asked about other area trails. This gentleman told me about all the trails he rode in the area, many of which are in wilderness areas or are adamantly closed to mtb use. These trails included the PCT from southern Oregon to Lassen Park, and trails in the Caribou and Trinity Alps wildernesses.

    His attitude was one of the trail exists, and I can ride it.

    His cavalier attitude towards the rules that make trails accessible to all types of users disturbed me greatly. There are already so many places in the Grand State of Confusion where mtbs were allowed, but are now banned because of the behavior of "get out of my way" mtb'ers.

    The PCT and the Appalachian trail are the premier long distance hiking trails for the USA. Both trails are old well established hiking trails with international reputations. How about we respect other wilderness users and hike the PCT - leave the bike home.

    At a time when we are trying to convince the northern California national forests that mtbs are valid recreational uses, such poaching alienates the officials and other trail users making progress in access much more difficult.

    Now, if we could only educate our land managers about the basic incompatibility of horses and dirt bikes with self-propelled recreation, our trails would improve immensely.

  2. #2
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    You lost me after you squandered the opportunity to engage him in a carbon vs aluminum discussion.

  3. #3
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    Carbon for road, aluminum for trails. Carbon is allergic to impacts!

    Alas, I still ride steel on the road!

  4. #4
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    A distrubing encounter

    Nice defeatist attitude. Keep giving the anti-mtn biking crowd an inch and eventually we will all be road riding. The hikers and equestrians need to get used to seeing us. Mtn bikes are not going away from those trails.
    If we are not supposed to ride bikes on the PCT, then why did they name it The Perfect Cycling Trail?


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Nice defeatist attitude. Keep giving the anti-mtn biking crowd an inch and eventually we will all be road riding. The hikers and equestrians need to get used to seeing us. Mtn bikes are not going away from those trails.
    If we are not supposed to ride bikes on the PCT, then why did they name it The Perfect Cycling Trail?


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    As someone who lives where the Pacific Crest Trail exists, I disagree.

    We have a 1000 trails and dirt roads where one can ride in the local NF, yes! Trails in Wilderness are off limits to bikes. A 1000 trails is not enough for your greedy ass? So what's the big deal? And quite frankly 98% of wilderness trails suck, unless your idea of a good time is to ride 10 feet, stop carry bike, ride 15 feet carry bike and so on.

    I really don't want some LA Yahoo yelling on yer left as he scares the sh!t out of my wife on the PCT. It's about relaxing and spacing out on the glory of creation. Bikes actually-Actually would and could ruin the experience.

    This from a MTN biker. Respect users. Simple as that. All users.

  6. #6
    I eat cats
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    Fixed part of the OP..

    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    His cavalier attitude towards the rules that make trails accessible to all types of users disturbed me greatly. There are already so many places in the Grand State of Confusion where mtbs are allowed, but will get banned because of the behavior of "STRAVA!" yelling biatches.

  7. #7
    Daniel the Dog
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    Guys talk crap at the trail head. I do an annual night ride on some local closed trails here in the NW. I only do it late at night and it doesn't hurt a thing...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Guys talk crap at the trail head. I do an annual night ride on some local closed trails here in the NW. I only do it late at night and it doesn't hurt a thing...
    It may not hurt the environment, hikers or equestrians. But it can hurt the mountain biking community. Poaching is ammunition for the anti-mountain-biking voice.
    I would like to see more trails opened to mountain biking. Any poaching or voicing off in support of poaching is detrimental to that cause. That's just the way things are whether you like it or not.

  9. #9
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    A distrubing encounter

    Not poaching is not getting us access to trails any faster. The sooner we become a common sight on the trails, the better. Eventually the other user groups will get used to seeing us.

    Remember that the PCT was designed and built with one of the purposes being bicycle traffic. Sure it wasn't mtn biking as we know it to be, but bikes were part of the original intent.
    As as I am concerned, bikes are still legal on the PCT. The order from the National Forest Service banning bikes was improperly drafted and signed. It is invalid and will not stand up in court if properly challenged.
    The idea that the PCT is some sacred long distance hiking trail that should never see mtn bike traffic is asinine.


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  10. #10
    The White Jeff W
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    Personally I have no problem with some trails being closed to MTB so that hikers and horses can enjoy the outdoors without being run over by some mtb'er amped up on GU and Strava.

    As long as its not my trails
    No moss...

  11. #11
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    Bikers must respect hikers/horse people and vice versa. Where I ride there are horses present. I ALWAYS dismount and slowly walk toward horse or let them approach me. Common sense. We, as bikers do not own the traiul. There is lots of room for all of us so be respectful of others.

    I have never been given an attitude by a horseback rider or hiker.

    Sadly I have witnessed bikers giving **** to horseback riders. Just blastingby the horse and rider.

    Nice way to get somebody seriously hurt. 1,000 pound horse is a lot to handle when they are spooked by a bike.

    As Rodney King so eloquently stated "Can't we all just along?"

  12. #12
    High Desert MTBer
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Bikers must respect hikers/horse people and vice versa. Where I ride there are horses present. I ALWAYS dismount and slowly walk toward horse or let them approach me. Common sense. We, as bikers do not own the traiul. There is lots of room for all of us so be respectful of others.

    I have never been given an attitude by a horseback rider or hiker.

    Sadly I have witnessed bikers giving **** to horseback riders. Just blastingby the horse and rider.

    Nice way to get somebody seriously hurt. 1,000 pound horse is a lot to handle when they are spooked by a bike.

    As Rodney King so eloquently stated "Can't we all just along?"
    This... even when horse riders tell me it's OK to ride by, I will still dismount as I feel better safe than sorry. It ain't no big deal for me, and makes for a better day all round! If, on the other hand, I was all 'amped up on Gu and Strava', it might be a different story... (BTW, where do I get this Strava? My dealer says he's never heard of it?)
    It's all Here. Now.

  13. #13
    Just Ride
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    My question is this. If they are allowed to hike on our MTB trails, then why can't we ride on their hiking trails?
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  14. #14
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    I got my first Mt. bike in 1982 and rode in Yosemite and the John Muir Wilderness with nothing but positive reactions from hikers for a few years until it was formally banned. Since that time I've been hearing the argument that waiting and advocating was the only reasonable course of action. Well, if I continue waiting maybe I'll be allowed to ride my wheelchair in the wilderness on a few select rails if I live to be 100. Instead I chose to pick my trails and my times carefully and continue to ride in banned areas while I am still able.

  15. #15
    AZ
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    Due to the numbers of eco-terrorists and anti mountain bikers that read these forums if you choose to poach trails please keep it to yourselves rather than post about it and give them yet more ammunition in their efforts to ban us from every piece of dirt. TIA.

  16. #16
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    And I opened this thread expecting to read that you came across a naked hiker or something.

  17. #17
    007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Due to the numbers of eco-terrorists and anti mountain bikers that read these forums if you choose to poach trails please keep it to yourselves rather than post about it and give them yet more ammunition in their efforts to ban us from every piece of dirt. TIA.
    This.

    And if you want to get involved, go here: Sharing the Pacific Crest TrailHome Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail

    check out this thread: Big news: Feds to consider allowing bikes on PCT

    and "like" the FB page (linked through the first site)
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  18. #18
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    A distrubing encounter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Due to the numbers of eco-terrorists and anti mountain bikers that read these forums if you choose to poach trails please keep it to yourselves rather than post about it and give them yet more ammunition in their efforts to ban us from every piece of dirt. TIA.
    I don't get how this argument works. The land managers already know people are poaching the trails. They don't need posts on MTBR to know that. Few posts on MTBR are not going to change any bodies attitudes.
    If anything, a bunch of people standing up and saying "yes, I ride that trail" combined with zero trail conflict incidents, shows why the trails should be legalized.



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  19. #19
    RTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
    As someone who lives where the Pacific Crest Trail exists, I disagree.

    We have a 1000 trails and dirt roads where one can ride in the local NF, yes! Trails in Wilderness are off limits to bikes. A 1000 trails is not enough for your greedy ass? So what's the big deal? And quite frankly 98% of wilderness trails suck, unless your idea of a good time is to ride 10 feet, stop carry bike, ride 15 feet carry bike and so on.

    I really don't want some LA Yahoo yelling on yer left as he scares the sh!t out of my wife on the PCT. It's about relaxing and spacing out on the glory of creation. Bikes actually-Actually would and could ruin the experience.

    This from a MTN biker. Respect users. Simple as that. All users.
    I agree. With all the options available, the only reason a person decides he MUST ride the PCT is because someone asked him not to. Like it or not, here's how its going to appear to the BLM if riders are caught in numbers on the PCT:

    1. we dedicated trails for multi-use (mtb) and we asked bikers to stay off the PCT and reserve that for pedestrians
    2. you thumb your nose at us and ride the PCT anyway and now my day sucks because I have to deal with complaints from pedestrians
    3. we don't have money to patrol, so we'll enact harsher penalties to discourage bikes on the PCT. And since you can't cooperate and made my life miserable, we'll be more inclined to shut down mtb access at the slightest sign of trouble in the future.

    what you guys need to understand is this is their WORK. we aren't two sides rallying for the same shared passion. these guys are at work, doing a job. no one likes anyone that makes their job harder. if you think you'll overpower them with your will to right all the wrongs you are sadly mistaken. make their lives easier and you'll get a lot more cooperation.
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  20. #20
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    trails meant for hiking/walking I agree, Are more relaxing and if bikes aren't allowed then they shouldn't be poached, it does give the anti,mtb crowd ammo. Now in my area we have waterworks and powerline "firetrails/dirt roads" thats marked completedly off limits to anything. No trespass at all. I poach those all the time, Have been for 20 years and never gotten in trouble.
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  21. #21
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    I'm was actually trying to find out if anyone else shares my passion of off-highway cross-country bike packing. I recently had the desire to thru-bike the PCT, only to find out that bikes are prohibited from use on the PCT! I want to create a trail specifically for us but before I can do anything I need to know how much demand there is for such a trail. Who else would like to see a trail dedicated to mountain bikers that stretches from the Washington-Canada border to the California-Mexico border.

    Thoughts?

  22. #22
    Rogue Exterminator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Nice defeatist attitude. Keep giving the anti-mtn biking crowd an inch and eventually we will all be road riding. The hikers and equestrians need to get used to seeing us. Mtn bikes are not going away from those trails.
    If we are not supposed to ride bikes on the PCT, then why did they name it The Perfect Cycling Trail?


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    And as somebody who used to live near the PCT and currently near the Appalachian trail I will also disagree.

    Besides the mentioned fact about it being relaxing for hikers and having somebody yell "on your left" as they buzz by you is not relaxing. There is also an issue of sustainability if you open them up to mountain bikers.

    The PCT is about 2,600 mi long and the Appalachian trail is about 2,200 mi long.
    It would take massive amounts of reworking and maintenance that would be needed to allow mountain bikes.

    When it comes down to it, how would you like it if they started allowing motorbikes on your favorite trails or if they started poaching them disturbing your peace and destroying the trails. I am guessing most of us would be pretty pissed. So why can't we just leave some things the way they are intended to be?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  23. #23
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    I don't have any particular desire to see a trail dedicated exclusively to mountain bikers, especially one that would likely require significant and ongoing public resources to build, manage and maintain - just like the PCT. Keeping other users off would seem as unfair and unnecessary as the current rule that keeps bikes off the PCT. A new trail just seems totally unnecessary since we already built the PCT. From the perspectives of fairness, environmental impact and financial sustainability, I think time would be much better spent trying to figure out how to share the trail we already have.

  24. #24
    dwt
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    A distrubing encounter

    Thought is was interesting that OP's encounter was with an "old guy". The stereotype "bad" biker is a mtn dew swiggin' young guy on a DH rig blasting thru multi use XC level trails with no concern for anybody, whether other bikers, hikers or equestrians.

    Where I live, old guys (which I am) are the ones who maintain the trails, are respectful to a fault of other users, and wouldn't be caught dead poaching on gov't owned banned trails out of fear of blowback in the form of getting bikes banned from the dwindling number of trails they now are permitted on.

    Though I have been known to trespass on private property, ready to bail if the actual owner shows up, and figuring that getting arrested is the risk I, hikers, dirt bikers and 4 wheelers are willing to take on these lands, where "everybody" is a poacher.



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  25. #25
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    I am always amazed at the difference between California and Colorado in this regard. In Colorado there are very few trails that are off limits to bikes. You can ride most of the Colorado Trail with the exception of the parts that go through wilderness areas. If even Marin County can't have any decent legal singletrack (besides Tamarancho which is very small and owned by the Boyscouts) then what hope is there in the rest of the state? Hell, we (Bay Area mountain bikers) even have to put up with radar guns enforcing 15mph hour speed limits! At this point, I say California is a lost cause and it makes no difference whether you respect the rules or not.

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