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  1. #51
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    I remember my first mech brakes, purchased back in 2000, Formula mech disc brake. it was a right royal PITA. Around the same time Avid released their mech brakes, it was a big improvement, but it still required constant adjusting, same concept. Still in 2000, I bought XT hydro's (4 pot Grimeca knock off) and it was night and day difference. No adjusting, no maintenance, it was a no brainer. As for bleeding, I never bled the XT's for as long as I've owned them, same with the purple hayes I owned, same goes for all the Hydro's I"ve owned.

    2000 was a great year, I remember Stan debuting his Stans no tubes here at mtbr...good ol days.
    Last edited by SV11; 10-20-2012 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Break a hydro line 30 miles from the trail head and you are riding back with no brakes. Break a cable and its a five minute fix.



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    Oh really now, how the hell is it a 5 minute fix? Seriously, I need to know because you seem to be talking bs. YOU assume people carry spare cables with them while riding.
    I don't know anyone that just has a rear brake or front brake, so how would you be riding back with no brakes? (its rhetorical)
    Last edited by SV11; 10-20-2012 at 02:07 AM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Not the same thing .I have not heard of current hydro brakes locking because of fluid expansion, especially just because it was in a hot car. the temp needed is MUCH higher.
    I don't know... it got really hot here this summer and we saw a lot of bikes coming in with pumped up brakes. Florida doesn't have any descents long enough to generate that kind of heat.
    Worked at Trek/Fisher dealer 2008-2013. Only a little biased.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoH View Post
    I don't think you have enough experience yet with brake systems to critique their designs.
    Ouch. I'm bleeding (bazinga! ). But you're right. I'm not SUPER xped. But I never criticized any design either. I just thought that it would be nice to have a mech brake with two way pad movement.

    Apparently it wouldn't be because so far nobody has said anything about how that affects performance. Let's see if people can FORGET ABOUT THE OPENING POST and answer the question I've asked at least 3 times in this thread, to no avail.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    mechanicals could be build with slider pins, like the one-sided hydraulic brakes on most everyones car. prolly not worth the wieght and complication?
    Magura built the Gustavs like this. They were crazy powerful, but overly complicated/heavy with the sliding pins.

    RS/Amp built the hydro calipers actuated by cables. Again, the worst of both worlds.

    I've never seen a valid reason for against hydros, but I have seen some companies with shoddy quality control making hydros. Avid has always been able to make very "grippy" brakes that stop you well, but I've had leaks, inconsistencies, poor ergonomics, and other problems, and that's just with mine. My avid mechs were even worse, overheating, pad adjustment backing itself out, extremely poor pad wear, etc. You don't need to spend a lot these days to get a decent hydro brake...but for a while at least, you did need to steer clear of avid. I suggest Shimano, Hope, and a few others.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Magura built the Gustavs like this. They were crazy powerful, but overly complicated/heavy with the sliding pins.

    RS/Amp built the hydro calipers actuated by cables. Again, the worst of both worlds.

    I've never seen a valid reason for against hydros, but I have seen some companies with shoddy quality control making hydros. Avid has always been able to make very "grippy" brakes that stop you well, but I've had leaks, inconsistencies, poor ergonomics, and other problems, and that's just with mine. My avid mechs were even worse, overheating, pad adjustment backing itself out, extremely poor pad wear, etc. You don't need to spend a lot these days to get a decent hydro brake...but for a while at least, you did need to steer clear of avid. I suggest Shimano, Hope, and a few others.



    My experiences with Avid hydro's has been the polar opposite, 3 years on one set with one bleed when I shortened the hoses. YMMV.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Ouch. I'm bleeding (bazinga! ). But you're right. I'm not SUPER xped. But I never criticized any design either. I just thought that it would be nice to have a mech brake with two way pad movement.

    Apparently it wouldn't be because so far nobody has said anything about how that affects performance. Let's see if people can FORGET ABOUT THE OPENING POST and answer the question I've asked at least 3 times in this thread, to no avail.
    I addressed your question. You may not like the answer
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  8. #58
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    To be honest the first thing I did to my bike was upgrade to Hydros. I don't trust mechanical's ever since I had a cable break when I was younger.

  9. #59
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    Hmm... so far people have said the following: (No particular order)
    My "idea" sucks.
    There was never any reason for it: mechs are fine as is.
    Mechs are actually harder to maintain than hydros, but are less intimidating to beginners
    Mechs have an advantage only when repairing on the trail. (And in the case of a snag)
    There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for mechs to have opposed pad movement. Even thinking about it is a waste of time. That wouldn't help the power or modulation or feel in any way at all.
    BB7s are the best mech around.
    Anything else?
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Hmm... so far people have said the following: (No particular order)
    My "idea" sucks.
    There was never any reason for it: mechs are fine as is.
    Mechs are actually harder to maintain than hydros, but are less intimidating to beginners
    Mechs have an advantage only when repairing on the trail. (And in the case of a snag)
    There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for mechs to have opposed pad movement. Even thinking about it is a waste of time. That wouldn't help the power or modulation or feel in any way at all.
    BB7s are the best mech around.
    Anything else?
    Hey Sauprankul, can I ask you a question? Have you ever actually ridden on a real trail? Like in a forest or some mountains? Anything other than just roads? Cause according to your thread Motobecane Elite Trail Review, your bike has 1.5" tires. If you can take that bike out on a real trail (with rocks, twigs, branches, leaves, acorns, etc) and walk away unscathed, you must have some of the best bike handling skills of anyone on this forum. And why is this important? Cause you keep asking how mechs can be better, when you actually don't really know what decent mechs (or hydros) can do, because you've never actually ridden on a real trail. When I first got my bike with stock tektro novelas, I rode it around the streets with my wife, and I thought the brakes were great. They stopped OK. Then I went on a real trail here in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas and soon thought "man I'm gonna kill myself if I don't change out these brakes". Because those tektros just wouldn't stop the bike when I was hammering down a rocky hill. And when the BB7's were installed, I then thought "damn this is sweet, I can stop whenever I want to, however I want to". After that there really wasn't much thought about why BB7's didn't have dual calipers moving, or wouldn't it be better if they designed this or that into them.

    So my point is, maybe no one is answering or wants to answer your question because no one really feels compelled to do so. Because everyone has found brakes (either mechs or hydros) that are adequate for them. And if people like what they got, than who cares if it got one caliper moving or 2 calipers moving. You, however, seem to not like your tektro novelas, so why don't you get something better and then decide if mechs really need to have 2 moving calipers. Another thing is, I don't really know how you would be able to accurately judge if one brake system was better than another anyway. This is due to your 1.5" tires. Tires have alot to do with braking, too. And I'd imagine 1.5" tires would skid all over the place, on loose stuff, on a real trail, everytime you apply the brakes, no matter what kind of brake you had.
    Last edited by JohnDoH; 10-21-2012 at 12:19 AM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Ouch. I'm bleeding (bazinga! ). But you're right. I'm not SUPER xped. But I never criticized any design either. I just thought that it would be nice to have a mech brake with two way pad movement.

    Apparently it wouldn't be because so far nobody has said anything about how that affects performance. Let's see if people can FORGET ABOUT THE OPENING POST and answer the question I've asked at least 3 times in this thread, to no avail.
    You know what, after contemplating long and hard about your idea, I've decided that you are right. Mech systems need more than one caliper. In fact, 2 moving calipers is not enough. I think they need 4 moving calipers. One caliper on the top, bottom, left, and right of each rotor. That's right, 4 avid BB7 calipers per rotor. And since you pioneered this breakthrough, I'll let you patent the idea. No wait..I got a better idea....

    TWO rotors per wheel. That's right, you heard it here first, peeps. 2 rotors per wheel, one on each side of the wheel. AND, 4 calipers per rotor, for a total of 8 moving calipers per wheel. I really think we're on to something here. And maybe we might even be able to keep the weight of each wheel under 10lbs. Sauprankul...See you at interbike
    Last edited by JohnDoH; 10-21-2012 at 12:18 AM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Hmm... so far people have said the following: (No particular order)
    My "idea" sucks.
    There was never any reason for it: mechs are fine as is.
    Mechs are actually harder to maintain than hydros, but are less intimidating to beginners
    Mechs have an advantage only when repairing on the trail. (And in the case of a snag)
    There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for mechs to have opposed pad movement. Even thinking about it is a waste of time. That wouldn't help the power or modulation or feel in any way at all.
    BB7s are the best mech around.
    Anything else?
    Youir idea "sucks" because you are over complicating matters.
    Mech's aren't for newbies. Unless you are familiar with adjusting pad to rotor clearance, I'd stick with hydro's. People assume mech's are simpler than hydro's, you don't have ongoing adjustments with hydro's, so imm that makes hydro's easier to deal with.
    As for repairing on the trail, thats a load of bs, UNLESS you carry spare cables with you while riding. And it's not like your losing both brakes at the same time.
    Because mechs only have one moving pad, it's just not going to have the same stopping power as hydro's.

    If you are dead set on mechs, the BB7 is the best currently on the market.
    Last edited by SV11; 10-21-2012 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Oh really now, how the hell is it a 5 minute fix? Seriously, I need to know because you seem to be talking bs. YOU assume people carry spare cables with them while riding.
    I don't know anyone that just has a rear brake or front brake, so how would you be riding back with no brakes? (its rhetorical)
    I rode and still do with some extra cables. With mechs even if yo don't have cable you can always jerry rig something with a little imagination.

  14. #64
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    Hence why in my previous post I said mechs aren't for newbies.
    Let's not forget, this thread was started by a newbie, as far as I know newbies don't carry that sort of gear with them because newbies aren't mechanically inclined.

    I can understand carrying spare tubes, but there's no reason to carry spare cables. If you're breaking cables then you are doing something wrong.

  15. #65
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    WTB IRD or WINZIP Mech Disc brakes

    looking to buy Front IRD Dual Bangers or Winzip mech disc brakes.
    private message pref. Thanks.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brakedancer View Post
    looking to buy Front IRD Dual Bangers or Winzip mech disc brakes.
    private message pref. Thanks.
    you could always try here as well.

    Disc Brakes - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoH View Post
    .

    TWO rotors per wheel. That's right, you heard it here first, peeps. 2 rotors per wheel, one on each side of the wheel. AND, 4 calipers per rotor, for a total of 8 moving calipers per wheel. I really think we're on to something here. And maybe we might even be able to keep the weight of each wheel under 10lbs. Sauprankul...See you at interbike
    Two rotors on the front wheel has already been done

    The mid 90s marzocchi bomber came with dual front disc brake mounts for exactly that. However it didn't come with a dual disc hub.

    Double disc mount Marzocchi Bomber

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Hence why in my previous post I said mechs aren't for newbies.
    Let's not forget, this thread was started by a newbie, as far as I know newbies don't carry that sort of gear with them because newbies aren't mechanically inclined.

    I can understand carrying spare tubes, but there's no reason to carry spare cables. If you're breaking cables then you are doing something wrong.
    Ive never had an issue with a brake cable ever, but ive had shifter cables break inside the shifter on both my cx bike and on my mtb. Both with less than six months on said cables.
    Stuff happens and as such when I head out into the back country a new shifter cable comes With me.



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  19. #69
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    Your idea seems overly complicated but interesting non the less!

    I have had both Avid mechanical (BB7) and hydro (Elixir). Both are great and easy (for me) to deal with. The BB7s needed constant tinkering with the in/outboard pad adjusters..almost every ride. They worked amazing on my rigid SS. My Elixirs were noisy/vibrated at first, fixed it with organic pads/new rotors. They are easy to deal with...you don't mess with them! Bleeding isn't hard, but I certainly understand someone who isn't mechanically inclined paying for this service. Overall, for me the hydros have been less hassle.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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