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  1. #1
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    Clipping in both sides of Eggbeaters?

    Hi All!
    I am curious if it is possible to clip in both sides of an egg beater at the same time.

    I am currently using CB Mallet 1 but want to have platform pedals on one side and clipless on the other. I know there are readily available pedals like this on the market but I am in a position of fabricate a platform and attach my spare cleats on to it. More exciting to DIY But willing to buy ready made ones if DIY will not work.

    My mallet 1 works well while clipped in but does not really perform like a platform when using shoes with cleats (or flat shoes) as the eggbeater protrudes and my feet slip around when not clipped in.

    So I am planning to make a platform with eggbeater cleats attached to the bottom of it and clip it into one side of my Mallet 1 while leaving the other side open for clipless use. I am planning to use my current clipless shoes and hoping that I can clip in when needed and use the platform side when I need to during the same ride without having to stop to remove the platforms.

    If it is possible to use both sides at the same time, will the clipping tension be that same or will it be harder?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSERO View Post
    My mallet 1 works well while clipped in but does not really perform like a platform when using shoes with cleats (or flat shoes) as the eggbeater protrudes and my feet slip around when not clipped in.
    This is correct, they are not designed to work like this, in fact, unclipping and trying to ride "on top" of the pedals in a "ready to bail" position is usually far more dangerous in tough terrain, because it means you lack the skills AND confidence to ride through the section, so you are most likely going to ride through without enough momentum to overcome obstacles and you'll endo or be thrown into rocks while you are riding the pedals in a way that gives you far less control. The reason pedals like this have platforms is to allow the edges of your shoes to dramatically increase the control of the bike-by weighting the edges, it also improves stability, and finally it makes it significantly easier to clip back in while riding through rough terrain. Extremely rough/rocky terrain can make it next to impossible to clip in, as you can never weight the pedal just right in the correct position (otherwise you'll smack a rock or stall out).

    I have seen such a product that clips into ONE side of a SPD pedal, but I am doubtful it would work as well due to the angular deflection release with the eggbeater mechanism. If you yank and pull while clipped in, nothing happens, leading to low-speed falls. If you rotate your heel enough, you come out. Due to this, any such "pedal insert" device may be susceptible to the same issue, you'd have to make sure they don't "twist", and too much twist could make them fall off. The versions of this product that I've seen clipped into SPD pedals, generally pedals with higher spring retention force. The other big problem is that they will always flip upside down, which is very annoying and means you have to use your foot to attempt to "flip" it back right-side up, if riding through tough terrain on the mallet mechanisms is hard, this will be even more frustrating and difficult, as you'll have even less control.

    That's just a one-sided insert though. As far as two sided, I can't see how that would work, if you are riding clipped in and hit a rock with the bottom of the pedal, you "close" the bottom mechanism, which "opens" the top, and ejects your foot. If you tried to clip a cleat into the bottom of the pedal (while being clipped in on top) it should try to close the top mechanism while you are attempting to open the bottom, which can't happen because the top cleat is in the way and won't allow the mechanism to close any further. which would mean the bottom mech is not going to budge.

    And no, you don't want the "half and half" pedals, they are terrible. Horrible as flat pedals and frustrating as clipless.

    Just curious, why go to all this trouble? I was hitting big tabletops and doubles, not to mention slick rocky chutes yesterday at the ski resort on my clipless pedals. Is it a matter of practice and skill, or looking for convenience to ride around town?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply Jayem.

    You are correct about the platforms coming off when they are twisted. Am sure I can find a way to make sure they will not twist out.... Maybe 2 screws on 2 sides to prevent twisting but can be unscrewed to all un-install.

    As to why I want to do it.... 1) I am not confident in riding tough sections due to lack of skill and lack of testicle size. 2) I feel more confident riding tough sections on platforms but want the clipless feature when the trail "eases up". 3) I want to be able to use only one shoe and pedals so I don't have to choose either flats+platform or clipless pedal+shoes with cleats as most trails in my area are a mixture of both gentle and challenging terrain. But I need the traction of a platform pedal while using the same shoe. End goal is to develop the skill to ride the whole thing clipped in. I know that the safe method will be to ride the whole trail on platforms and develop the skill first, then ride it clipped in.

    I realize that I will have to be mentally alert making sure I get the ride side up (clipless side or platform side) when needed. I find this more appealing than riding the mallet with clipless shoes while un-clipped in during tough sections or riding the whole trail in flats+platforms. So i am willing to live with the compromise of having to pay attention to pedal position.

    Another reason why I want such a pedal is because i have not found a shoe that can do it all... ability to have cleats when needed, ability to act like flats when needed, ability to have traction when walking the bike on challenging terrain. Most shoes are designed around the pedal. Aside from having the perfect shoe that can do it all, I think that there should be a pedal that can do it all too.... I accept that there will be compromises.

    But from this section of your reply..."That's just a one-sided insert though. As far as two sided, I can't see how that would work, if you are riding clipped in and hit a rock with the bottom of the pedal, you "close" the bottom mechanism, which "opens" the top, and ejects your foot. If you tried to clip a cleat into the bottom of the pedal (while being clipped in on top) it should try to close the top mechanism while you are attempting to open the bottom, which can't happen because the top cleat is in the way and won't allow the mechanism to close any further. which would mean the bottom mech is not going to budge. " - is this theoretical knowledge? or has this been tried? I was thinking the same, thus my question.

    ....So I guess it is not possible to use both sides simultaneously?

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSERO View Post
    Thanks for the reply Jayem.

    You are correct about the platforms coming off when they are twisted. Am sure I can find a way to make sure they will not twist out.... Maybe 2 screws on 2 sides to prevent twisting but can be unscrewed to all un-install.

    As to why I want to do it.... 1) I am not confident in riding tough sections due to lack of skill and lack of testicle size. 2) I feel more confident riding tough sections on platforms but want the clipless feature when the trail "eases up". 3) I want to be able to use only one shoe and pedals so I don't have to choose either flats+platform or clipless pedal+shoes with cleats as most trails in my area are a mixture of both gentle and challenging terrain. But I need the traction of a platform pedal while using the same shoe. End goal is to develop the skill to ride the whole thing clipped in. I know that the safe method will be to ride the whole trail on platforms and develop the skill first, then ride it clipped in.
    You need to buy and try REAL platforms with pins then. This idea isn't going to work. Making the pedals super thick with an extra platform connected to the mechanism will make for poor platforms due to the distance they are from the center of the axle and how much they hang below in rough sections. People can and do ride cipless through those sections, but you must practice the exit more and under benign conditions. And then don't slowly come up on said section at a speed that is guaranteed to stall you out. The easy way to fix this though is to buy real flats, flats these days are made with concave platforms and pins that allow your shoe to really grab the pedal, it's hard to come off these things in all kinds of terrain due to the design, they are even lighter than those platform-clipless pedals like Mallets and 545s. Unless you are ready to "commit" to clipless, ride the flats is my advice.


    I realize that I will have to be mentally alert making sure I get the ride side up (clipless side or platform side) when needed. I find this more appealing than riding the mallet with clipless shoes while un-clipped in during tough sections or riding the whole trail in flats+platforms. So i am willing to live with the compromise of having to pay attention to pedal position.
    Yep, and again, those pedals are not intended to be ridden like that, none of them are. The mechanism protruding up through the platform makes it so your foot is trying to balance on a marble. Either clip in, or walk the section. Otherwise it's usually crashing.

    Another reason why I want such a pedal is because i have not found a shoe that can do it all... ability to have cleats when needed, ability to act like flats when needed, ability to have traction when walking the bike on challenging terrain. Most shoes are designed around the pedal. Aside from having the perfect shoe that can do it all, I think that there should be a pedal that can do it all too.... I accept that there will be compromises.
    It's going to be hard, clipless and flat shoes are diametrically opposed. Clipless are meant to be fairly rigid, to transfer your pedaling power and provide support, whereas flat pedal shoes are meant to be soft and gummy, to flex into the pedal concave and allow the pins to bite into the shoe. There are some better clipless shoes that are a little softer these days, but they still inherently have these features.

    But from this section of your reply..."That's just a one-sided insert though. As far as two sided, I can't see how that would work, if you are riding clipped in and hit a rock with the bottom of the pedal, you "close" the bottom mechanism, which "opens" the top, and ejects your foot. If you tried to clip a cleat into the bottom of the pedal (while being clipped in on top) it should try to close the top mechanism while you are attempting to open the bottom, which can't happen because the top cleat is in the way and won't allow the mechanism to close any further. which would mean the bottom mech is not going to budge. " - is this theoretical knowledge? or has this been tried? I was thinking the same, thus my question.

    ....So I guess it is not possible to use both sides simultaneously?


    Thanks
    It shouldn't be. If you have to shoes ( a left and a right) you should try it. I think you'll find it's impossible to force the mechanism open because you're trying to move it against the cheat on the other side. It's like trying to turn a doorknob opposite directions at the same time. It won't move.

    I have a set of decent flat pedals I spent $75 for the winter when it gets exceptionally cold. I use SPDs most of the time, but they are heat sinks connected to larger heat sinks (cranks) and close to your foot they suck a lot of heat out. I usually use pretty flat soled boots with the flats of course. I also used flats at Trestle this year on a rental bike, they supply you with gummy flat-pedal shoes at the same time though. It's a little easier to carry speed with clipless to get to the backside of the double/table top, but it's a little easier to go up a little higher/more vertical with flats, which means at the same speed you won't overshoot as easy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5
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    Thanks so much for indulging me and answering my questions Jayem. Much appreciated.

  6. #6
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    I think it wouldn't work, because when you clip on on one side, i.e. open the arms to clip in, the arm on the other side make the same motion (think of squeezing an X from the top and bottom - the "V" at the top gets wider, so does the bottom). So clipping in on one side would release the clips holding the platforms on the other, just as would happen when you strike a rock - the bottom of the pedal hits the rock and spreads out, unclipping your foot.

    I would like the same thing, but for different reasons - for a bike that I can ride clipped in when I want to hit the trails, but it's also the bike I hop on to ride with my kid to the park or school, or ride to the store. For now I either swap pedals, or throw on a pair of casual MTB shoes with cleats.

    That all said, I agree that if you ride clipped in most of the time, you're more likely to crash when ridding not clipped in. I speak from experience.

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