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  1. #1
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    Can you really trust class 1 ebikes?

    Apparently just like phones and other electronic devices it's possible to "unlock" the firmware on the devices that control the speed and allow users to go faster than they would normally be allowed to travel which essentially defeat the purpose of having them classified. I'm not going to link the source (just google "unlock ebike"), but let's just say it's as easy as plugging the motor into a computer and running some commands.

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  2. #2
    rth009
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    No. You cannot. While I see merit for commuting, e-mountain bikes are abomination and will result in lost singletrack access.

  3. #3
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    not this type of thread again

    I am no angel, but come on man.
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  4. #4
    rth009
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    He asked. I answered.

  5. #5
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    Apparently just like phones and other electronic devices it's possible to "unlock" the firmware on the devices that control the speed and allow users to go faster than they would normally be allowed to travel which essentially defeat the purpose of having them classified. I'm not going to link the source (just google "unlock ebike"), but let's just say it's as easy as plugging the motor into a computer and running some commands.

    No. Either it has a motor or it doesn’t. Everything human powered should be looked at for access one way, everything with a motor should be looked at the other way. If not....it all gets lumped with motorized and access erodes. Don’t sleep on those trying to co-opt hard fought mountain bike access for ebikes....they will screw it up for the rest of us.

  7. #7
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    Don't mind me, just getting in here early to get a good seat for the show. *popcorn*

  8. #8
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    All those guys from the ebike threads won't tread in here. They are in their safe place now and don't have the ebike mods to protect them.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    not this type of thread again

    I am no angel, but come on man.
    And he started TWO of them. There is another in the trail building forum.
    Hopefully the mods will combine.

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  10. #10
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    In before the threadlock:

    It's gonna be a shit-show. Let's do this!


    I let go of my "class 1 ebike hate". As I posted in the "FLX bikes" thread I started, they're here, and I'm not thrilled; but with pedal-assist only and low max-speed 'as intended' restrictions, they probably won't be the death knell we all fear.

    My greatest fear has always been, and will remain the scenario as OP posted- modded bikes or stock 1.5kW bikes that don't need pedal input, and have no speed governor.

    The look like plain bikes, they travel like scooters.

    I'm not sure I can be convinced this will end in anything other than disaster for everyone who enjoys two wheels.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    In before the threadlock:

    It's gonna be a shit-show. Let's do this!


    I let go of my "class 1 ebike hate". As I posted in the "FLX bikes" thread I started, they're here, and I'm not thrilled; but with pedal-assist only and low max-speed 'as intended' restrictions, they probably won't be the death knell we all fear.

    My greatest fear has always been, and will remain the scenario as OP posted- modded bikes or stock 1.5kW bikes that don't need pedal input, and have no speed governor.

    The look like plain bikes, they travel like scooters.

    I'm not sure I can be convinced this will end in anything other than disaster for everyone who enjoys two wheels.
    In it's noblest form ebikes promise positive benefits. However we know reality is quite different from what we see in the movies.
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  12. #12
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    Do guns kill people or do people kill people? I 100% trust my class 1 ebike.
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  13. #13
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    I think a lot of e-bikers will hack the class 1 bikes to make them go faster. It's pretty evident if you read through forums.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Do guns kill people or do people kill people? I 100% trust my class 1 ebike.
    Great analogy! Let's regulate off-road e-bikes similarly to make sure they are only being used by those with medical reasons to necessitate them... I'm in full agreement with you!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Do guns kill people or do people kill people? I 100% trust my class 1 ebike.
    Idiots riding e-bikes on non-motorized trails will kill trail access.

  16. #16
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    I wouldn’t hack mine for lack of warranty, shorter range, and really “most” ride in eco mode.
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  17. #17
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    I bought my wife an ebike and ride with two other people who have ebikes. No one I know has any need or desire to increase the speed.

    I have a degree in electrical engineering and usually like to modify things, but the ebike will remain stock

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    Idiots riding e-bikes on non-motorized trails will kill trail access.
    Do you have any proof or links that this has happened? Or is it all wildly speculative? Yup, thought so.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    I wouldn’t hack mine for lack of warranty, shorter range, and really “most” ride in eco mode.
    You state that like it is a fact, as if you happen to know ever single eBike rider in the US, and you have full proof that "most" ride in eco mode.

    It is statements like this that irk many other site users.

    Perhaps you mostly ride it in eco mode, but that is anecdotal, and represents a single person in a sea of eBike riders.

    Last week I saw a beachcruiser style eBike riding up the hill that I live on, going about 15mph, he was NOT in eco mode, he as hauling butt uphill. Does that mean "most" eBikers will do the same. No, it was just one example.

    If users on this site both for and against eBikes would stop making statements they cannot back up with scientific studies or real facts perhaps the vitriol would decrease.
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  20. #20
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    Well, out of the 10 ebike riders I know “most” do ride in eco mode. Take a poll in your ebike sub forum and let’s see how many ride in eco mode. Rather, who gives a s**t!
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raikzz View Post
    Well the 25kmh speed limit, it got boring very quick on my local trails ( trails here need you to go fast to have fun ), but after bluetooth "hack", it's so much fun, it's unreal.

    I used to ride motocross and have thought about buying the enduro motorbike again, but now there's absolutely no need for motorbike

    This is a quote from an e-bike thread in that forum. I've seen plenty more just like it, over the little bit that I've followed here and on other e-forums.

  22. #22
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    True, we ride fast and hard. Don’t you?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    True, we ride fast and hard. Don’t you?
    I thought you rode in econ mode?

  24. #24
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    I do, I also have legs and gears.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Well, out of the 10 ebike riders I know “most” do ride in eco mode. Take a poll in your ebike sub forum and let’s see how many ride in eco mode. Rather, who gives a s**t!
    I am not sure an online poll will have any direct correlation to what is actually happening in the real world.

    As mentioned before, time will tell for sure how the majority of Land Management Agencies decide to address this and enforce it.
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  26. #26
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    You can trust a hopped-up ebike with the stock battery to run out of juice halfway up the hill.


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  27. #27
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    I don't have an e-bike, so I tried hacking my legs. Not recommended!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Well, out of the 10 ebike riders I know “most” do ride in eco mode. Take a poll in your ebike sub forum and let’s see how many ride in eco mode. Rather, who gives a s**t!
    So when it supports your argument to say that 'most ride in eco mode' it's valid, but then when it's pointed out that you're full of it and can only support that statement with a sample size of 10 (how many of that ten ride in eco mode to amount to 'most?') suddenly you say 'who gives a s**t!'

    This is so typical of e-bike arguments and it's why these threads always deterioriate. You don't care whether or not arguments against them are valid, you simply see it as your 'right' and will justify it any way you see fit at the time.

    What I don't get is why you die-hard e-bike people don't just ride them and shut the hell up about it? If you don't care what people's opinions are and you're just gonna do what you want anyway then why bother arguing?

  29. #29
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    Again, most do ride in eco mode simply because of the trail. Have you ridden a Levo in Turbo up or down technical singletrack? The problem is that everyone that apposes them, has never owned one. “I demo’d one in the parking lot” doesn’t count. How many times have you heard someone say they bought a class 1 pedelec and the thing sucked, worst time ever on a bicycle. My entire family rides Ebikes, who gives a s**t!
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Again, most do ride in eco mode simply because of the trail. Have you ridden a Levo in Turbo up or down technical singletrack? The problem is that everyone that apposes them, has never owned one. “I denied one in the parking lot” doesn’t count. How many times have you heard someone say they bought a class 1 pedelecs and the thing sucked, worst time ever on a bicycle. My entire family rides Ebikes, who gives a s**t!
    Restating your opinion, once again as if it were fact, doesn't change that it's still just your opinion.

    I have working legs and enjoy bicycling, so no I haven't ridden a moped on singletrack thank you.

    ... And actually a customer at my shop rode a Trek full suspension e-bike for about six months then sold it preferring to ride a real mountain bike.

  31. #31
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    It is only my opinion! JMO. I’m glad your a real man and ride a real Mtb.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    It is only my opinion! JMO. I’m glad your a real man and ride a real Mtb.
    Maybe I'm a real lady and ride a real mtb. Maybe I'm a real boy (like Pinocchio?) and ride a real mtb. Doesn't matter, what does matter is that bicycles don't have motors and when you add one it becomes something different.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    so no I haven't ridden a moped on singletrack thank you.
    I have, it was fun as hell. It was like a mountain biking simulator. I'd definitely crank up the power if i owned one, then ride most of the time in ECO until i felt like riding like a jackass. Which would happen every ride.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Maybe I'm a real lady and ride a real mtb. Maybe I'm a real boy (like Pinocchio?) and ride a real mtb. Doesn't matter, what does matter is that bicycles don't have motors and when you add one it becomes something different.
    Correct, they are different. Different is not always bad.
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  35. #35
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Correct, they are different. Different is not always bad.



    And many times it's catastrophic. Like motorcycles on non-motorized trails.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I have, it was fun as hell. It was like a mountain biking simulator. I'd definitely crank up the power if i owned one, then ride most of the time in ECO until i felt like riding like a jackass. Which would happen every ride.
    If I'm being totally honest I have, just not on good single track... It was a test track I built behind the shop I work at. The power is cool, but the weight makes handling feel terrible from what I was able to gather.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Correct, they are different. Different is not always bad.
    Didn't say it was. I have no problems with e-bikes, as I said I imagine some day I'll own one for commuting.

    I have a problem with the guys who argue tooth and nail that they are just the next logical step in the evolution of bicycles and therefore regulating them differently is as unfair as regulating full suspension differently from hard tails.

    So you admit they are different, but will you admit that they are motorized? For reference the definition of motorized is 'equip (a vehicle or device) with a motor to operate or propel it.' Is that not what has been done? Equipping a bicycle which inherently does not have a motor, with a motor. Note that it doesn't even say 'propel' solely. The fact that you can pedal as well doesn't matter, you still are using a motor to operate it.

    Motorized bikes should be allowed on motorized trails only, not non-motorized.

  37. #37
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    I think the real question is if we should let bikes equipped with Di2 into the Wilderness.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I think the real question is if we should let bikes equipped with Di2 into the Wilderness.
    At this point, no bikes are allowed into the "Big W" Wilderness.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    True, we ride fast and hard. Don’t you?

    no, you don't. quit dreaming
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  40. #40
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I think the real question is if we should let bikes equipped with Di2 into the Wilderness.



    Rhetorically, does Di2 propel the bicycle forward?
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    no, you don't. quit dreaming
    As long as battery life allows, he does.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Again, most do ride in eco mode simply because of the trail. Have you ridden a Levo in Turbo up or down technical singletrack? The problem is that everyone that apposes them, has never owned one. “I demo’d one in the parking lot” doesn’t count. How many times have you heard someone say they bought a class 1 pedelec and the thing sucked, worst time ever on a bicycle. My entire family rides Ebikes, who gives a s**t!
    I demoed one and it sucked, way fast on a flat dirt road, 10 pedal strokes and going way too fast. Tried to loft the front wheel. Way heavy, not gong to do that 20-40 times a ride. Typical for where I ride on most trails, rocks, ledges, and all those logs.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raikzz View Post
    Well the 25kmh speed limit, it got boring very quick on my local trails ( trails here need you to go fast to have fun ), but after bluetooth "hack", it's so much fun, it's unreal.

    I used to ride motocross and have thought about buying the enduro motorbike again, but now there's absolutely no need for motorbike

    So far the Sram guide RE's are superb !

    /end thread

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  44. #44
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    The e-bike crowd seems to run with the same mentality as the equestrians in my area. They have a very entitled "we have a right to be here" mentality, but all they really do is contribute to erosion on the trails while never helping to build or maintain anything.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    I wouldn’t hack mine for lack of warranty, shorter range, and really “most” ride in eco mode.
    Would you say that other e-bikers have the exact same intentions as you do?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  46. #46
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    Yup, yup, yup. Beaten horse. I’m just a consumer, not a producer so go put your energies where it may really count. Oh wait, you can’t because you also ride their bikes and/or their parts!
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  47. #47
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Yup, yup, yup. Beaten horse. I’m just a consumer, not a producer so go put your energies where it may really count. Oh wait, you can’t because you also ride their bikes and/or their parts!




    I put my energy into access, or lack of it.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    I put my energy into access, or lack of it.
    This title of thread is in that sub too:

    Can you really trust class 1 ebikes?
    Last edited by Zowie; 05-15-2018 at 06:14 PM.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Yup, yup, yup. Beaten horse. I’m just a consumer, not a producer so go put your energies where it may really count. Oh wait, you can’t because you also ride their bikes and/or their parts!
    I'm not a land manager, I just work with one, so go put your energies where it may really count.

  50. #50
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    Unsubscribed, y’all can argue with each other now.
    NO NOISE - NO FUMES - NO WORRIES! 🔋

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Unsubscribed, y’all can argue with each other now.
    good

    go back to fantasy land where you think your e-bike makes you hard somehow

    :LOL:
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  52. #52
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    I think it's a mistake to call anything with a motor a bicycle. They have motors and pedals so moped makes sense, or maybe a new word entirely. What they aren't is bicycles which have always been defined as pedal powered. I believe that motors have a big role to play in utility and commuting. And no, I absolutely do not trust people to not modify them, and there is no way to police this.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  53. #53
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    I would say no to that question. I'd also say no to any device that is charging a lithium ion battery at this point. Manufacturing defects, physical shocks, physical wear are all things that can cause short circuits with explosions and fires with many of these batteries.

    Go to utube and search for "exploding tablet (or phone, scooter, tablet, laptop, hoverboard, etc) and you see why these things are not entirely safe.

    I keep my chargers on a switchable plug strip and turn it off when I'm not actively charging something. I try to charge when I'm in the area. It saves on power also. However, I'm not so good about things that need to be charged often like phones and tablet. Of course, those are things that catch fire!
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    They have motors and pedals so moped makes sense, or maybe a new word entirely.
    I think e-bike is fine. It's already got that moped-like stank on it.

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