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  1. #1
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    Any one else in favor of killing off internally routed frames?

    Built up a beautiful HD3 frame yesterday. What should have been an enjoyable venture turned out to be an exercise in frustration.

    More time was spent focking around with over-engineered internal cable routing than anything else. It was not complicated, but it was super finicky fishing cable through the frame, precisely cutting housing, and getting things not to rattle.

    Internally routed cable is a botched attempt at an answer to a problem that didn't exist. Its a BS marketing ploy for a few folks with too much money who pay their local bike shop to do their wrenching.

    As for internally routed dropper posts, yeah I guess they are nicer internally routed. But, the way Ibis has their routing set up (temporarily exits/re-enters near the BB) - its a big hassle. Then again, I've never had a single issue with externally routed droppers, and that includes two Spec droppers, and a few Gravity droppers - proper cable length and a zip tie and there are no cable issues. I'd gladly go back to externally routed droppers. Heck, Fox's new Transfer offers an external version.

    That said, the HD3 is otherwise a really nice bike.

    Full length housing/cable routing along the bottom of the down tube has worked great. I owned a frame designed with it in the past and now I often re-route cables, bypassing the internal routing on other frames.

    Currently, Pivot's 429 Trail, is designed this way. Guess what? It's quite a few hundred dollars less because they made the frame simpler and easier to deal with. Get rid of internal routing and you'll see frame prices drop by a few hundred.

    Perhaps if you are paying some shop to do your wrenching, never mind. Personally, I don't like paying extra money for a frame that makes maintenance more difficult.

  2. #2
    Contains no juice.
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    This thread was posted about a week ago, you may find it enlightening: Cable routing rant
    "...rhetorical hyperbole..."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Get rid of internal routing and you'll see frame prices drop by a few hundred.
    I seriously doubt that. I agree that internal routing is a pita but it does give the bike a clean look.

    Vote with your wallet.

  4. #4
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    I'm mostly in favor of killing off cable routing of any kind. Electronic signals to motorized calipers and derailleurs are in the future.
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  5. #5
    ccm
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    I don't like internal routing, especially for dropper post since I change seat post and saddle depending on what I'm doing

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccm View Post
    I don't like internal routing, especially for dropper post since I change seat post and saddle depending on what I'm doing
    To add to this, internally routed droppers tend to leak through the bottom seals. BAD design.
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    I'm mostly in favor of killing off cable routing of any kind. Electronic signals to motorized calipers and derailleurs are in the future.
    I could live with the derailleur aspect of that statement but NEVER with the braking aspect. No way I'd trust an electronic braking system, at least not on the level of tech a bicycle is going to see.

    And +1 to the internal route BS. I'm good with the easy routing on my carbon Stumpy frame which allows for complete internal or partial. I like the partial that takes the cable down the top tube and spits it out at the shock tang, exposing maybe 12" of cable to my LEV DX. It's clean enough and so easily serviceable.

  8. #8
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    internal routing is here to stay

  9. #9
    > /dev/null 2&>1
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    How will external routing save hundreds of dollars per frame?

    Internal routed frames have a few holes drilled, external routed frames have a few holes drilled, the manufacturing cost is the same.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    How will external routing save hundreds of dollars per frame?

    Internal routed frames have a few holes drilled, external routed frames have a few holes drilled, the manufacturing cost is the same.
    All internal routed frames are not equal. Some, but quite few actually, are simply some holes in the frame. A lot of them have internal guides, if not full cable runs. These things are not simple or cheap to produce inside of a frame. Cable stops on the outside of a frame however are insanely simple and cheap to produce.

    Now, whether we'd see real world savings next year if everyone went back to external routing...I have my doubts.

  11. #11
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    I would love it if internal routing was done away with. I hate it... and I currently own and have to plans to own a frame with internal routing.

  12. #12
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    internal routing isnt the problem, lazy bike companies that cut a hole in the frame and call it a day are the problem

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by garcia View Post
    I would love it if internal routing was done away with. I hate it... and I currently own and have to plans to own a frame with internal routing.
    Congratulations!
    You managed to contradict yourself in only two sentences. Usually it takes a matter of several paragraphs or even a couple of posts before someone does that.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  14. #14
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    Internal routing hands down wins in the aesthetics department. Depending on who you talk to, it even wins in the maintenance department.

    While they are a bigger pain to set up and work on, due to their protected nature they require fewer tweaks over the life of your bike. Do you set it up once, and have it take you 2-3 hours, but never touch it again? or do you set it up in 10min, and have to revisit them every year or every other year. Take your pick.

    Biggest thing to keep in mind is to keep it a "closed" system. Having proper seals where your cables enter is huge in keeping moisture/debris out of the frame which can deteriorate your cables and even the frame itself potentially.

    I mean, I almost compare internal vs external routing to be the same progression that bearings have taken. How easy is it to fix sealed bearings versus cup and cone? Same story.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSpice View Post
    I mean, I almost compare internal vs external routing to be the same progression that bearings have taken. How easy is it to fix sealed bearings versus cup and cone? Same story.
    Your point is sound, but the example not so much. There are tradeoffs with modern sealed bearings...not serviceable, less room for the bearings themselves so they are smaller so wear faster etc. The oldest bearings I have in service, by far and away, are old style free ball bearings/cup and cone.

    As with everything, there are always tradeoffs with new technologies. For the most part, I tend to thing that the trend towards internal routing has more benefits than not.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardTraveller View Post
    Your point is sound, but the example not so much. There are tradeoffs with modern sealed bearings...not serviceable, less room for the bearings themselves so they are smaller so wear faster etc. The oldest bearings I have in service, by far and away, are old style free ball bearings/cup and cone.

    As with everything, there are always tradeoffs with new technologies. For the most part, I tend to thing that the trend towards internal routing has more benefits than not.
    While it seems most technology talks about how durable it is, or how it has improved quality, yadda yadda, almost all of them actually are designed to be durable for X amount of service time units.

    Being in the manufacturing world myself in a very large company, I can tell you that nobody tries to make something indestructible anymore. The average person in this day replace things significantly faster than older generations did. Some of it is certainly caused by the phenomenon I am describing here, but most of it is because of people's obsession with having the latest and greatest.

    Take cars for instance. The rate people get new cars these days is significantly higher than older generations. Again as mentioned, some of it is caused by the fact that cars aren't as durable with all of the technology compared to older cars, but more of it is because of people wanting a new shiny toy with gizmos and gadgets.

    So why should a car manufacturer design a car that will last 100yrs when the average person is going to junk it after 10? They instead target a car that will start running into issues around 15-20yrs. Can reduce cost, can improve R&D for new gadgets people want to pay for, etc.

  17. #17
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    Working in a shop, the most terrifying words were "shift cables" when paired with "speed concept" (Trek time trial bike). Then a whole new level of terror set in when Cervelo TT bikes started showing up with Magura hydraulic rim brakes. "Stealth dropper" posts are somewhere between those two.

    I own two bikes, hardtail and cx. Both are steel and externally routed. I am kind of a retro grouch but i would be more likely to buy a frame with external routing than internal.

  18. #18
    ccm
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    think about the World Cup pits and the need to change seatposts or rear brakes in less than 2 minutes?

  19. #19
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    I have two bikes (road and dirt) that are internally routed. Both suck to do. The cables and hoses are something that do not look forward to doing whenever that time comes. The front derailleur cable on my road bike looks like it can go at any time. I've been putting it off becuase I just don't want to do it. Lol...I asked my local guy how much he would charge. He told me that he charges double to do internally routed bikes. The price goes up if it gets complicated. He don't want to do them either. The rear brake hose on my 29r was a nightmare.

    I was in the verge of ordering a Commencal Meta V4. The internal routing was the big thing that kept me from clicking the submit order button. Instead I found a used Spitfire that runs external routing. I had the brakes and hose and shift cable zip tied in minutes. It also has internal and external routing for the dropper. I just bought an external routed dropper.

    Internal routing can turn an enjoyable build into a nightmare.

  20. #20
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    Yip, totally agree with the OP. Internal cables are a case of form over function. They offer no real practical advantage and very real potential disadvantages.

    The idea that they seal the cables better is completely bogus as there is no reason why you cannot run full-length housing externally.

    Internal cables do not require fewer tweaks over the life of the cable, why would they? That makes no sense. In fact the tight bends in dérailleur cables are sure to accelerate wear on the inside of the outer cable so you'll be tweaking and replacing sooner if anything.

    Which of course brings us to the happy subject of fitting/replacing internal cables. Let's be honest here, they can be a fecking pain in the arse! Changing a set of hydraulic brakes is one of the simplest jobs on a bike, turned into an epic scowl-fest by internal routing. Not only do you have to deal with the routing itself and the unnecessary bleed but the olive and nut have to be removed and refitted as well. Ten-minutes vs minimum an hour, easily more, plus the extra cost.

    Dérailleurs, not quite so bad, but the extra friction of the tight cable bends can make the setting of the rear one harder than in has to be and just getting the housings in place can be a nightmare. My Commencal Meta is so difficult to get cables into. There is no way you can the rear dérailleur and brake lines in without partially disassembling the bike and even then it's still not easy.

    And lastly there is another potential issue that rarely gets mentioned. With the cables inside the frame is is impossible, or very difficult, to inspect them for damage. Damage?? How can they be damaged inside the frame? Well, they can. As they get rubbed against the edges of internal tubes, or in the case of my Meta the steerer-tube, they can get damaged.

    So in short, this is non-argument. Internal routing offers one advantage, just one. It makes the bike look cuter. It panders to the tosser in many mountain bikers! And while I'm not saying that looks do not matter to me at all, I care a lot more about how well my bikes work and how easily I can service and maintain them. Internal routing is for idiots who never have to work on their own bikes and the sales departments who pray on them.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I was in the verge of ordering a Commencal Meta V4. The internal routing was the big thing that kept me from clicking the submit order button.
    By the way, you should mail them and tell them. I moaned like crazy about them routing the cables through the head-tube on the V3. They have dropped this on the V4, not because I complained but I reckon a lot of others beat me to it.

    They have also made some of the holes at the bottom-bracket bigger and moved others. They clearly know it's not a vote winner so hopefully if enough people complain they'll sort it. Even if they just dropped the routing of the cables through the stays it would be a big help. When I need to replace the rear dérailleur cable it will be getting tied to the outside of the chain-stay.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Congratulations!
    You managed to contradict yourself in only two sentences. Usually it takes a matter of several paragraphs or even a couple of posts before someone does that.
    reading comprehension is your friend, don't shy away from it...


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    I'm mostly in favor of killing off cable routing of any kind. Electronic signals to motorized calipers and derailleurs are in the future.
    Also its better when using with 11 speed. (though shimano still makes a XTR Di2 front derailleur) So 2x10 is dead which the mtn bike world wants you to follow along with. I'm not a huge fan but when technology moves on you have to deal with it, kinda like HD TV and people who insist watching on a 4x3 analogue tv or ppl who still have flip phones. Tech moves on like it or not.

    Internal routing creates lots of problems, it looks good but its only about aethetics.

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  24. #24
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    I must say that I do like the look of my Epic with it's internal routing. I must also say that I have a full new brake set that has been sitting in my shop for over a month because I do not want to open the can of worms trying to deal with the internal routing. From what I have read Specialized uses a 'noodle' that the cable runs through the prevent noise and I can see that aiding in routing. Replacing housings seems easier as you can attach something to the original housing as you pull it through and then pull the new housing with that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    reading comprehension is your friend, don't shy away from it...
    So this post makes sense to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by garcia View Post
    I would love it if internal routing was done away with. I hate it... and I currently own and have to plans to own a frame with internal routing.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  26. #26
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    Yes, he currently owns an internally routed frame and will own more in the future, but thinks the concept is dumb.

    just like i think swoopy frame tubes are silly, but i don't let it keep me from owning a bike that fits my every need otherwise...


  27. #27
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    I can't stand internally routed frames. Most of all
    with the brake lines.

  28. #28
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    I had a 2008 carbon Frame with internally routed cables. It was very inconvenient. My 2011 Turner 5 Spot is aluminum, and externally routed everything. It is so GREAT! I will never go back. Sunday, I re-cabled both derailleurs, and my dropper post in 40 minutes. You forget how well XT shifters work with new housing/cables, and I change mine 3 times per year or so. Butter. Frames with internal routed hydraulic brake are pretty ridiculous, but I admit, I don't need to change brake hoses as often (2-3 years at least, unless a crash or something).

  29. #29
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    It's not a bad idea, some bikes do it very well, some do it very poorly, just like suspension. I don't really care one way or another, as long as the internally routed frame is done well. No excuses for crap routing that leaves you trying to snag cables and fish them through all day long.
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  30. #30
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    Has anyone tried the $55 Park Tool, internal cable routing set?

  31. #31
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  32. #32
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    Once the cables have been routed once it's no big deal. My current FS bike needs a tandem cable for the RD due to the routing, and that sucks. They also clang around in the downtube. They also exit down near the BB and get kinda hammered. Running the brake line wasn't very fun. Shitty execution. If it was better executed i think the initial hassle would have been worth the tidiness.

    I'd rather rip a zip tie then mangle a cable housing in a crash.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    Yes, he currently owns an internally routed frame and will own more in the future, but thinks the concept is dumb.

    just like i think swoopy frame tubes are silly, but i don't let it keep me from owning a bike that fits my every need otherwise...
    I went back and read it twice and realized he put an extra "to" in there which threw me off. Thanks for clarifying.

    And I agree on the swoopy frame tube designs. Number one they're ugly and number two you can get to the same geometry numbers by using straighter tube designs. What's the benefit? It seems the manufacturers are doing it just to give a more futuristic appearance. And once one does it the rest follow suit to keep up with the Joneses, so to speak.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procter View Post
    Or my DIY solution: LINK

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And I agree on the swoopy frame tube designs. Number one they're ugly and number two you can get to the same geometry numbers by using straighter tube designs. What's the benefit?
    Clearance. With the bent top-tube your stand-over is great. Lots of room to move.

    I get depressed just thinking about the day I have to change my rear dérailleur cable. The routing over the bottom-bracket and through the stay is crazy. This is a depressing thread...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    Has anyone tried the $55 Park Tool, internal cable routing set?
    Yes. It's OK. It's been very helpful in some cases and not at all in others. It was brilliant getting a Reverb hose through the BB and up the seat tube. Fish one with a magnet down the downtube to the bb, then the other with a magnet down the seat tube, and after they find each other pull them up out the top of the seat tube. I'm not sure how else I would have done it. Of course, you could make your own too.

    Some frames have stops that only allow a cable or liner to pass through and the ends on the Park kit are too big for these. And of course some frames are easy to route in the first place.

    If there's already a cable or hose routed, replacing it is generally straightforward as you can virtually always use the existing cable/housing/hose to run a new one.

    My primary beef with internal routing is with poor designs that interfere with functionality by putting sharp bends in cables or liners causing extra drag and accelerated wear. IMO, routing the shifters cables under bar tape on road bikes is all bad.

    Personally, the only thing I find attractive about electronic shifting is the potential to be completely wireless. Of course with 1X, you already halved the problem.

  36. #36
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    YES! Internal routing cable is a PIA. Yes it makes the frame looks cleaner but that's about it. Replacing cables and housing used to be one of the easiest, quickest pieces of bike maintenance. Now it's a huge hassle.

    Internally routed droppers suck too. I used to be able to swap my dropper between 2 bikes easily, now thats not possible with my internally routed Reverb that came on my Hightower.

    Once again, the mountain bike industry has fixed a problem that never existed and now it's just a hassle for us riders.
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  37. #37
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    To the OP: Did someone force you to buy an internal routing dropper? I have an HD3 and initially I dreaded the internal routing but it turned out to be stupid simple. The dropper I had handy (KS) wasn't internal and, other than using a trick to keep the rattle down, again stupid easy in a 1/2 internal configuration. Don't know the full story but sort of sounds like you picked the gear in spite of other options...

  38. #38
    ccm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    To the OP: Did someone force you to buy an internal routing dropper? ..
    if you buy a new bike it is highly unlikely it will come with an external dropper and
    with few exceptions, all the newly designed droppers are internal

    in addition, when I took my original Reverb into the LBS for service, was told Rock Shox is doing an update special and is not supporting rebuilds of the original anymore, and had to wait three months for a replacement external since the supplier assumed the LBS would provide my upgrade from in-house stock (LBS only had internal Reverbs and my bike is not compatible with internal)

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    YES! Internal routing cable is a PIA. Yes it makes the frame looks cleaner but that's about it. Replacing cables and housing used to be one of the easiest, quickest pieces of bike maintenance. Now it's a huge hassle.

    Internally routed droppers suck too. I used to be able to swap my dropper between 2 bikes easily, now thats not possible with my internally routed Reverb that came on my Hightower.

    Once again, the mountain bike industry has fixed a problem that never existed and now it's just a hassle for us riders.
    If you had a KS LEV or similar you could just leave a lever and cable on each bike and easily disconnect the post for swapping.

    I never liked the hose that attached at the head of my old Reverb or the cable routing of my old Gravity Dropper Turbo.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccm View Post
    if you buy a new bike it is highly unlikely it will come with an external dropper
    True as that may be - the guy said he just got a new frame and built it up. I'm just asking for clarification as to 'why' pick that component if it's part of his personal custom build.. As with a lot of choices, sometimes you get in over your head and get pissed when it's harder to do than you think'll be... it happens.

    There are plenty of options for quality non-stealth droppers still and some stealth ones with easy-ish set-up options. My implied point is this: if you picked out a stealth dropper, in light of other external options, and then complain/rant about internal routing - consider it a lesson learned and but blame is mostly on the OP. If it came with the bike/build and no other choice - different story.

    Obviously people are asking for stealth posts and I like the option but it doesn't mean it's for everyone.

    EDIT to add: w/ external cable droppers anyone who has mudded their actuator or buzzed their cable on the wheel can tell you the choice to go stealth isn't purely cosmetic. May not be worth the trade but it has merits.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post

    I get depressed just thinking about the day I have to change my rear dérailleur cable. The routing over the bottom-bracket and through the stay is crazy. This is a depressing thread...
    Attach it to your old cable housing and pull it through. Not a big deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post

    EDIT to add: w/ external cable droppers anyone who has mudded their actuator or buzzed their cable on the wheel can tell you the choice to go stealth isn't purely cosmetic. May not be worth the trade but it has merits.
    Gravity droppers have the mechanism sealed and the cable doesn't move. Just sayin'
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Attach it to your old cable housing and pull it through. Not a big deal.
    It's not that simple. That will work if you're just putting a cable through the down-tube but some bikes, like mine, have very tight convoluted routes that are very difficult to feed the cable through. You have to do it a section at a time.

    Started a poll, let's see what the consensus is: LINK

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post

    Clearance. With the bent top-tube your stand-over is great. Lots of room to move.
    Not buying what you're selling. Swoopy tubed frames are all about futuristic looks. My old straight tubed Intense I have yet to smack my nuts [and I've got nuts] in numerous years of riding it in tech terrain. Don't fall for the hype. Swoopy frames are all about the ugly look and not about any benefit in the design.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Not buying what you're selling. Swoopy tubed frames are all about futuristic looks. My old straight tubed Intense I have yet to smack my nuts [and I've got nuts] in numerous years of riding it in tech terrain. Don't fall for the hype. Swoopy frames are all about the ugly look and not about any benefit in the design.
    Na, I'm not sure I agree. As suspension travel gets longer you need to do something to that top-tube to keep the stand-over sensible and more clearance is no bad thing. The only reason straight tubes were used back in the day is that they had little choice. These days they can form tubes pretty much any way they like and it's allowed manufacturers to build frames that are lighter yet stronger than anything that they could have made fifteen-years ago. It's all good :0)

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    To the OP: Did someone force you to buy an internal routing dropper? I have an HD3 and initially I dreaded the internal routing but it turned out to be stupid simple. The dropper I had handy (KS) wasn't internal and, other than using a trick to keep the rattle down, again stupid easy in a 1/2 internal configuration. Don't know the full story but sort of sounds like you picked the gear in spite of other options...
    Of all the internal routing on frames if found routing dropper posts to be the least difficult, in the past. But the hd3, with it's too narrow stoppers and tight bend made this build a real challenge. Also, resale value on the external dropper posts is low as they seem to be in less demand. For those reasons I took a chance and when IR.

  46. #46
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    I hate internally routed cables about as much as i hate press fit bottom brackets.

  47. #47
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    Sounds like more people should be riding Turners...

  48. #48
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    In order to shut up the full length housing rattling inside my Virtue 3 frame I had to buy a length of foam pipe insulation and stuff it through the downtube.

    By god those cables will be quiet now.

  49. #49
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    I find cable routing on the HD3 to be super easy, not as easy as ext routing but still no problems. What I don't like is the hidden damage a moving cable can do. Gotta make sure the cables are completely stationary otherwise they can saw thru your frame,,,

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellery View Post
    In order to shut up the full length housing rattling inside my Virtue 3 frame I had to buy a length of foam pipe insulation and stuff it through the downtube.
    I'm not sure that's a good idea. The foam will trap moisture in there, which will get in through the nice holes made for your cables.

    I don't know if my internal cables rattle. When riding over the kind of ground that might make them rattle I'm too busy trying not to fall off to notice!

  51. #51
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    There are soft, closed-cell, neoprene foam tubes provided with some bikes to put around internal hoses to keep them quite. A trick used on Di2 is something like zip ties that aren't trimmed or trimmed to a length that will brace against the inside of the frame and strung along the length of the wire.

  52. #52
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    Having had many bikes that were externally routed, internal routed cables are great for a mountain bike that is ridden in the mud or wet.
    It allows shorter cable housings, which mean less friction, and it also allows for the now open/exposed cables to be much less exposed to the elements when riding in the dirt!

  53. #53
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    There has been internally routed bikes for many years, I had one that was built in 1968! and I bet they came out before then. I see no problems with internal routed bike, for some bikes I think it looks great, for others not so much. But as far as problems go I don't think nowadays there is any problems except fishing a new cable through the frame which there are tricks for that.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    There has been internally routed bikes for many years, I had one that was built in 1968! and I bet they came out before then. I see no problems with internal routed bike, for some bikes I think it looks great, for others not so much. But as far as problems go I don't think nowadays there is any problems except fishing a new cable through the frame which there are tricks for that.
    Yep, this technique has been around for years. It does look great. The problem is fishing the cables through, although there are tricks to it several bike mechanics in this thread have stated its a PITA. Is it worth the hassle or not is the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yep, this technique has been around for years. It does look great. The problem is fishing the cables through, although there are tricks to it several bike mechanics in this thread have stated its a PITA. Is it worth the hassle or not is the question.
    This video is I think very useful, and this is what I remember the mechanic back when I owned the 68, he simply used a hook tool (not sure if he made the tool or bought it premade) and fished the cable out of the hole, he didn't do the using the cover thing which from the looks of it would have been easier. I don't think this video is PITA at all.

    Ask a Mechanic: Replacing Internally Routed Cables

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    This video is I think very useful, and this is what I remember the mechanic back when I owned the 68, he simply used a hook tool (not sure if he made the tool or bought it premade) and fished the cable out of the hole, he didn't do the using the cover thing which from the looks of it would have been easier. I don't think this video is PITA at all.

    Ask a Mechanic: Replacing Internally Routed Cables
    Looks simple, however some of today's full suspension frame designs it may be a bit more of a hassle.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  57. #57
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  58. #58
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    When l'm riding, l listen (derrailleur, chain,
    etc..) feel (mostly for brakes) and touch. By touch, l mean touching the cables tension. That is how l keep optimized. Inner routing takes that fun away.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by trepanayacki View Post
    When l'm riding, l listen (derrailleur, chain,
    etc..) feel (mostly for brakes) and touch. By touch, l mean touching the cables tension. That is how l keep optimized. Inner routing takes that fun away.
    I had a bike that had internal routing and I didn't much care for it, and since it was steel I always worried about the openings being in inlet for water. Even if a bike isn't made of steel I can't imagine water getting into the frame and sitting for long periods of time being good for anything including the bottom bracket. But maybe that's not a problem? While internal routing does make the bike look cleaner to some but to others, like me, they like the look of cables; but mostly internal routing is just more of a headache to replace the cables as the video I gave earlier demonstrates.

  60. #60
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    I place internal cable routing right up there with glass-backed cell phones. Stupid, done because modern "reviewers" continue to fawn over superficial crap instead of stuff that adds performance, durability, ease of maintenance, and value.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSpice View Post
    The average person in this day replace things significantly faster than older generations did. Some of it is certainly caused by the phenomenon I am describing here, but most of it is because of people's obsession with having the latest and greatest.

    Take cars for instance. The rate people get new cars these days is significantly higher than older generations. Again as mentioned, some of it is caused by the fact that cars aren't as durable with all of the technology compared to older cars, but more of it is because of people wanting a new shiny toy with gizmos and gadgets.

    So why should a car manufacturer design a car that will last 100yrs when the average person is going to junk it after 10? They instead target a car that will start running into issues around 15-20yrs. Can reduce cost, can improve R&D for new gadgets people want to pay for, etc.
    OK I know this is two years old, but it's evidently written by somebody who never actually owned old cars. The ones that would start to rust out in a few years and be lucky to make 100,000 miles. There is no demand for a car that lasts 100 years because safety and performance have increased so dramatically decade to decade throughout the history of auto manufacturing that there are numerous valid reasons to update, not to mention the cost would be prohibitively expensive.

    It's just a terrible analogy. Internal routing is nothing more than aesthetics.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by serendipitous View Post
    Speaking of terrible analogies...



    "It’s also a practical consideration because phones with aluminum backs aren’t compatible with wireless charging, a key feature of flagship phones now. Using glass also means signals like Wi-Fi, LTE, and Bluetooth are stronger without the need for clunky antenna lines embedded into the frames."

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...glass-mwc-2018
    Aluminum is just as stupid as glass. Easily damaged and slippery. But oh it feels so nice when you're fondling your phone. Because evidently people do that.

    Apparently someone doesn't have any experience with externally routed droppers. Or getting scrapped up by cable stops/mounting points riding tech, or denting housing when a rock is thrown up by your front wheel, or shouldering a bike, etc.
    I do not have experience with an external dropper. I do have experience with the rest and it's never been an issue big enough to justify the downsides of internal routing. Particularly on road bikes. But you're right, it's not purely aesthetic. Mostly though.

  62. #62
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    what stops you from running cables externally on a frame with internal routing?

    My fatbike frame has internal routing (only holes) and also the external clip-ons for full length housing (and the hydraulic rear brake line). So i could run externally, or internally.

    I really don't see the point of this thread since no one forces you to use the internal routes.

    BTW, my frame is black, so is my frame bag and I'm OK with seeing the black cables and houses. If my frame was white, red etc. I'd prefer internal routing of the black cables.
    2018 Motobecane Sturgis NX
    2016 Giant Toughroad SLR1

  63. #63
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    Just ditched internal routing, and I feel like I'm home again.

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