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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    The most successful industry in the US belongs to the military. The US pumps out the worlds most advanced weaponry from the M16 to the F22.
    I wouldn't consider an outdated plastic .22 cal rifle advanced, especially a caliber originally deigned for varmit hunting...maybe 40yrs ago but not today. The current US weapon system is lacking when compared to foreign weapon systems. Even the 60yr old AK is still consider superior. The US is however light years ahead on other systems and some of this technology does filter down to the public sectors.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    GDP rank:
    CA = number 1 (51k per capita)
    AZ = number 18 (40k per capita)

    Just saying.
    AZ is >25% federal reservation land, a desert and a retiree hotspot... yet it ranks #18.
    Ca was the #1 economy in the world and now its #8.

    But in the end aren't we saying that "My team is better than my team"... I would just like to see CA at #1 again... Just saying.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    AZ is >25% federal reservation land, a desert and a retiree hotspot... yet it ranks #18.
    Ca was the #1 economy in the world and now its #8.

    But in the end aren't we saying that "My team is better than my team"... I would just like to see CA at #1 again... Just saying.
    I agree with you there. I'm not moving until you import an ocean! I do like the state a lot, by the way.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50calray View Post
    I wouldn't consider an outdated plastic .22 cal rifle advanced, especially a caliber originally deigned for varmit hunting...maybe 40yrs ago but not today. The current US weapon system is lacking when compared to foreign weapon systems. Even the 60yr old AK is still consider superior. The US is however light years ahead on other systems and some of this technology does filter down to the public sectors.
    the minute we all need a stealth bike let me know.

    I should be more specific. Any poll of the american people shows that given a choice between spending on the military or spending on social services the overwhelming majority of americans choose social services: education, health care etc.

    But the govt completely ignores that and Defense gets by far the lions share of tax dollars, its not even close. So in lieu of having the worlds best education system and a benign state that cares for the well being of its citizens you have the worlds largest and most advanced military of all time. The US maintains military bases in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Philippines and Japan to name but a few.

    Obama is currently building new bases in Sth Korea and Australia and my guess is not many of you knew that. It is not in the govt's interest for the general population to know that, people are crying out for better health and better education and what is the govt doing - spending millions upon millions on more military bases.

    Big money in defense contracting, very big money, lots of rich CEO's, just what the economy needs.

    BTW - both AZ and CA lack sufficient water reserves for economic viability in the near future.

  5. #130
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    Quiring has the Q-Ball multipurpose 29er, handmade by Scott Quiring in Michigan.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by kateean2 View Post
    Quiring has the Q-Ball multipurpose 29er, handmade by Scott Quiring in Michigan.
    Yes! one of the few relevant responses to the OP whose question is - Any bikes made in the USA?.

    How can a thread that asks about what bikes are made in the US, generate responses on political views, quality of weapon tech and comparative water resources of states? Think you guys need to get out and ride more

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Yes! one of the few relevant responses to the OP whose question is - Any bikes made in the USA?.

    How can a thread that asks about what bikes are made in the US, generate responses on political views, quality of weapon tech and comparative water resources of states? Think you guys need to get out and ride more

    Lol true

    I thing it's just the climate I can understand that people try to understand why manufacturers are outsourcing...

    True: we should ride more I just did 20kms

  8. #133
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    You may find this interesting
    inrng : who makes what

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by kateean2 View Post
    Quiring has the Q-Ball multipurpose 29er, handmade by Scott Quiring in Michigan.
    That's a killer deal if you can still order one. I thought they took their website down but it looks like it is back. However, it says "page not found" when I clicked the order button. $499 for a US made steel frame beats several foreign made frames out there...
    Killing it with close inspection.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Yes! one of the few relevant responses to the OP whose question is - Any bikes made in the USA?.

    How can a thread that asks about what bikes are made in the US, generate responses on political views, quality of weapon tech and comparative water resources of states? Think you guys need to get out and ride more
    We do have fun ...

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Yes! one of the few relevant responses to the OP whose question is - Any bikes made in the USA?.

    How can a thread that asks about what bikes are made in the US, generate responses on political views, quality of weapon tech and comparative water resources of states? Think you guys need to get out and ride more
    Answering the question of which bikes are made in the USA is a really simple task, most of us know the answer in general, that there are a few boutique brands around and maybe one of the big firms has a limited edition frame on sale.

    Discussions evolve however and it became more interesting to talk about the why, why aren't more bikes made in the USA, and the whole thread just carried on. And it became evident that there are some strong feelings in the mtn bike community about the general state of affairs concerning the economy and why more things are not made in the USA.

    It wasn't so long ago that all american brand bikes were made in the USA. I think most people reading this thread and most americans in general would like a return of more goods made in the USA.

    Sure we all love riding and we all love our machines, that is a no brainer, but it doesn't mean we can't have intelligent discussions, that we can't push the envelope a little regarding issues that really matter and it is obvious that made or not made in the USA matters to people.

  12. #137
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    Few USA bikes?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    Answering the question of which bikes are made in the USA is a really simple task, most of us know the answer in general, that there are a few boutique brands around and maybe one of the big firms has a limited edition frame on sale.
    I'd like to totally disagree with this statement. There are many (try atleast 125+) builders and "brands" out there making American made mountain bikes. I would believe that "most of us" actually don't know where certain bikes are made, especially "perceived" American brands.

    Check out this article if you want a comprehensive made in the USA mountain bike list: Ultimate Listing: Mountain Bikes Made In America
    OldGloryMTB.com | American Made Mountain Biking

  13. #138
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    You are right, there are more manufacturers producing bikes in the US than most people realise. It is a shame that the mtn bike press does not do a better job of covering them.

    Great website, everyone should check it out. Maybe you should create a new thread..........

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    You are right, there are more manufacturers producing bikes in the US than most people realise. It is a shame that the mtn bike press does not do a better job of covering them.

    Great website, everyone should check it out. Maybe you should create a new thread..........
    I can't believe how many are made in California given the our unions, regulations and general hatred for manufacturing so clearly stated above ...

    I wonder what it would cost to produce a simple steel frame (El Mar, Nimble 9, etc.) without all the over designed seat tube, chainstay and other weird bends? There are some beautiful bikes on that link, but function seems to be taking a backseat to form on some of the frames.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    I'd like to totally disagree with this statement. There are many (try atleast 125+) builders and "brands" out there making American made mountain bikes. I would believe that "most of us" actually don't know where certain bikes are made, especially "perceived" American brands.

    Check out this article if you want a comprehensive made in the USA mountain bike list: Ultimate Listing: Mountain Bikes Made In America
    The list isn't entirely accurate. Some frame builders still mostly produce overseas with only a select few frames made here (i.e. Vassago). Good to see so many though.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  16. #141
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    The Ultimate list is a very positive sign of multiple bikes producers serving their communities& markets. In 5 years or so (businessweek) China will have priced its labour to the US. Its predicted that this will spur a manufacturing growth. So a rebirth things made in your good ole USA

    Just let it be:

    High Quality &
    Valued

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
    The Ultimate list is a very positive sign of multiple bikes producers serving their communities& markets. In 5 years or so (businessweek) China will have priced its labour to the US. Its predicted that this will spur a manufacturing growth. So a rebirth things made in your good ole USA

    Just let it be:

    High Quality &
    Valued
    There's that and rising transportation costs. Oil/fuel. Having to pay all the transporation workers a living wage, etc...After a point, it's not cheaper to build it for pennies on the dollar and ship it. The Japanese figured this out long ago and cut their costs by having the manufacturing here in the US. More manufacturing will have to shift back.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
    The Ultimate list is a very positive sign of multiple bikes producers serving their communities& markets. In 5 years or so (businessweek) China will have priced its labour to the US. Its predicted that this will spur a manufacturing growth. So a rebirth things made in your good ole USA

    Just let it be:

    High Quality &
    Valued
    if china's labour costs rise to the level of the US (and that is a huge if because china is still very much a poor and uneducated country) business will find other sources of cheap labour like africa.

  19. #144
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    Read this ref china labour: Manufacturing: The end of cheap China | The Economist

    Business week also made interesting comments.

    In fact I have clients who a few are US organisations, restructuring and rebasing into Poland. Where labour costs are 7 euros. So perhaps it will take the US a while but its getting there, just google the reports and you will find plenty. Its still decent news and I already wrote earlier on how some firms are coming back to the US. This would not have been believed a decade back.

    I really think it's great that the US have that many bikes as posted, previous post. Amazing. The UK certainly have far fewer. Swiss less & only the largest brands will survive. My past neighbour made carbon fibre bikes by hand at a cost of 4,000-14,000! The 4k bike had great equipment and was super light/rigid. But he sold to a few select. Each bike by P.A.L.M were hand painted too - customised beautifully. my fear was not knowing what I am buying so I decided not to buy from and bought a Scott.


  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    if china's labour costs rise to the level of the US (and that is a huge if because china is still very much a poor and uneducated country) business will find other sources of cheap labour like africa.
    That's globalization! It will move around the world to the cheapest spot.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    if china's labour costs rise to the level of the US (and that is a huge if because china is still very much a poor and uneducated country) business will find other sources of cheap labour like africa.
    Already happening, Specialized, Marin and Niner now have some frames made in Cambodia.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I can't believe how many are made in California given the our unions, regulations and general hatred for manufacturing so clearly stated above ...

    I wonder what it would cost to produce a simple steel frame (El Mar, Nimble 9, etc.) without all the over designed seat tube, chainstay and other weird bends? There are some beautiful bikes on that link, but function seems to be taking a backseat to form on some of the frames.
    Honestly, you already know the answer to this. Supply and demand.

    Who wants a 29 HT with 18" CS and a 45"wb (on med and lrg frames) that handles like a freight train in the forrest? There has to be engineering, r and d, bends, nips, tucks etc... to make it work.

    Simply an example. Not implying 29 are taking over the world.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    Honestly, you already know the answer to this. Supply and demand.

    Who wants a 29 HT with 18" CS and a 45"wb (on med and lrg frames) that handles like a freight train in the forrest? There has to be engineering, r and d, bends, nips, tucks etc... to make it work.

    Simply an example. Not implying 29 are taking over the world.
    If you look at the link, some builders are going purely for looks. What's up with up-sloping top tubes - why reduce stand over?

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50calray View Post
    I wouldn't consider an outdated plastic .22 cal rifle advanced, especially a caliber originally deigned for varmit hunting...maybe 40yrs ago but not today. The current US weapon system is lacking when compared to foreign weapon systems. Even the 60yr old AK is still consider superior.
    The AK is superior? At what? Being clunky? Yeah, it's reliable...and inaccurate and has terrible ergonomics and crappy sights. It's the rifle of ill-trained conscripts.

    It's also in modern issue shooting a 5.45 round to compete with the ballistics of what? Yeah, the wimpy 5.56 which no NATO military seems in a hurry to abandon - The M16 has served us so well we haven't found a good replacement in 40+ years. The most advanced rifle companies in the world keep trying, to little avail. The Navy Seals, SAS, Mossad and other elite paramilitaries who can choose any rifle they want often choose the M16 as a platform. Same with swat and police forces. Show me a police force, anywhere in this country, using an AK as a duty carbine. In the age of budgetary concerns, that alone would propel it if it were a superior weapon.

    The modern iterations of the M16/M4 are phenomenal rifles, and they have the combat record to prove it.
    "Wait, this thing doesn't have a motor?" - Socrates

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    If you look at the link, some builders are going purely for looks. What's up with up-sloping top tubes - why reduce stand over?
    You can only reinvent the wheel so many times.

    Back in the early "90's when mtn biking started getting more popular. There were hundreds of both custom builders and companies making frames. Look how many have folded since.

    Since the 29" wheel has come along. There has been an explosion of custom frame builders welding up HT frames. How many years before they start to fold?

    Everyone is making a 29 frame now. Full suspension has come a long way. Now, lets make a 650 wheel size to keep consumers spending.

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