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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Finished it for you since your iPhone obviously froze when typing there, Gutch.
    I actually like the one stop browsing. I can read about ebikes, my Mtb, get some training tips and then go to the beer section and figure out what I’m going to drink. Then, when I’m drunk instead of kicking the dog and arguing with wifey I can go back to ebike forum and argue there. It’s kept my household quite pleasant.
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
    NINER RIP 9, FOCUS JAM2, SPESHY TURBO S

  2. #302
    always licking the glass
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    Announcement: Mtbr has a new owner!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    It's good that you differentiate between riding a mountain bike and riding an eBike at least.
    I think they need to be completely separate forums. Ebikes aren’t mountain bikes.

    MTBR - mountain bikes
    RBR - road bikes
    EBR - ebikes, including e-mtbs
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
    Writer, MTB4Her.

  3. #303
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    s-c-r-e-w ebikes. yes they should have an entirely separate web site and forum. then
    we will all be happy and you can service the ebikers and the advertisers for all things e-bike far better. continuing here in one forum is not being productive to either
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  4. #304
    That Sleestak
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    Looks like the image up-sizing issue on attachments has been fixed, thank you! I did notice that linked images from other places will still get bumped up to the max width, so even a small smiley would get blown up to a full size image, aye.

    Name:  scotty.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by sito40 View Post
    You guys should chill out. Take some weeds!

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    s-c-r-e-w ebikes. yes they should have an entirely separate web site and forum. then
    we will all be happy and you can service the ebikers and the advertisers for all things e-bike far better. continuing here in one forum is not being productive to either
    I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    I think they need to be completely separate forums. Ebikes aren’t mountain bikes.
    MTBR - mountain bikes
    RBR - road bikes
    EBR - ebikes, including e-mtbs
    See above, if you want it hidden from you personally I can accommodate this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    1) Keep the ebike forum strong!, we ARE current and former MTBRS btw.
    2) IPhone continually “freezes” when typing.
    2) Are you on tapatalk or on your browser? What phone? What browser?

    -Philip

  6. #306
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.
    I would avoid using ‘User Masks’, it causes a few extra SQL queries for every page load, so can slow things down. If you can, disable ‘User Masks’ completely and maybe create a new user group who can’t see specific forums (maybe this is how you are doing it anyway?).

  8. #308
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.
    I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
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  9. #309
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    I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.
    Change begins by doing something different.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.
    I cant just remove a full section of the site. Some users are so triggered by this I figured I would offer this as an option.
    -Philip

  11. #311
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    Access masks is practical for one or two users. My first proposal was to create a special user group for those who are that triggered by it. I guess I could also give them their own hidden forum where all they will do is talk smack about ebikes...
    For the moment I cant make too many major changes to the site until its moved to its new servers. I mostly want to keep it similar to what everyone knows so when we move it if there are bugs they get noticed immediately.
    -Philip

    Quote Originally Posted by MJW75 View Post
    I would avoid using ‘User Masks’, it causes a few extra SQL queries for every page load, so can slow things down. If you can, disable ‘User Masks’ completely and maybe create a new user group who can’t see specific forums (maybe this is how you are doing it anyway?).

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckleberry hound View Post
    I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.
    I am going to try and track these down. Can you get me a screen grab of what you see as well as the URL the ad is directing to?
    -Philip

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    This is not a true representation of the facts.

    It doesn't really matter why many bikers do not like eBikes, the fact is they don't. With the industry pushing them so hard, and forums being forced to play along, there is the possibility that a forum which took a stand against them might gain a lot of friends!

    HMMM.

    I think it does matter why so many mountain bikers do not like e-bikes. This is a sibling rivalry where one sibling refuses to acknowledge the other. As I mentioned on another thread, e-mountain bikes share basically every single component with a normal mountain bike. You can get fat-tire e-bikes, rigid, hardtails, full-suspension, 1x, 2x, 3x drivetrains, older 8-speed ones or newer 11-speed ones, etc., even carbon fiber ones if it's a mid-drive. It's all there. A lot of manufacturers have a regular mountain bike and then throw a battery and motor on the SAME bike and make it an e-bike. With such a similarity in both bikes, it does really, really, really matter exactly why a pedal biker would not like an e-bike. Because it obviously goes beyond them not liking a bike with a battery and motor. If that were the only excuse to not like them, we would not see so many heated arguments. There is a much deeper antipathy. It's fine to be a purist as long as it doesn't hurt others.

    It kind of reminds me of the American car industry in the 1980's when Europe and Japan were starting to really get a share of the market here. And the attitude of the American car dealers? Was it open-minded? Nope, and they paid for it dearly. But don't worry, not all bikes will have electric power, there will always be millions of them with pedal-only power, so this hatred is misdirected.
    Hypercritical is good. Hypocritical is bad. Nice people can still be bad people.

  14. #314
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.

    I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.
    One gear is all you need.

  15. #315
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    I cant just remove a full section of the site. Some users are so triggered by this I figured I would offer this as an option.
    -Philip



    The e-motorbike forum was removed from this site at one time, it can be removed.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.

    I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.
    +1

    how do you post "+1" and get around the "your reply is too short"?
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  17. #317
    bikes don't have motors
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    HMMM.

    I think it does matter why so many mountain bikers do not like e-bikes. This is a sibling rivalry where one sibling refuses to acknowledge the other. As I mentioned on another thread, e-mountain bikes share basically every single component with a normal mountain bike. You can get fat-tire e-bikes, rigid, hardtails, full-suspension, 1x, 2x, 3x drivetrains, older 8-speed ones or newer 11-speed ones, etc., even carbon fiber ones if it's a mid-drive. It's all there. A lot of manufacturers have a regular mountain bike and then throw a battery and motor on the SAME bike and make it an e-bike. With such a similarity in both bikes, it does really, really, really matter exactly why a pedal biker would not like an e-bike. Because it obviously goes beyond them not liking a bike with a battery and motor. If that were the only excuse to not like them, we would not see so many heated arguments. There is a much deeper antipathy. It's fine to be a purist as long as it doesn't hurt others.

    It kind of reminds me of the American car industry in the 1980's when Europe and Japan were starting to really get a share of the market here. And the attitude of the American car dealers? Was it open-minded? Nope, and they paid for it dearly. But don't worry, not all bikes will have electric power, there will always be millions of them with pedal-only power, so this hatred is misdirected.




    And the point goes right over your head. Simply put, ebikes put hard won access at risk and any legitimate mountain bike centric site would send ebikes packing.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.



    See above, if you want it hidden from you personally I can accommodate this.



    2) Are you on tapatalk or on your browser? What phone? What browser?

    -Philip
    Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there’s more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you’re smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
    NINER RIP 9, FOCUS JAM2, SPESHY TURBO S

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    And the point goes right over your head. Simply put, ebikes put hard won access at risk and any legitimate mountain bike centric site would send ebikes packing.
    Any “proven cases” of trails being lost to mtbrs due from emtbs? If the LM say cool, then why the hatred? This older crowd of ebike riders have done nothing for Mtb trails thru the years?
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.

    I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.
    This is exactly the issue. It’s not the first time it’s been said, but I’m not sure it’s been said so well or as succinctly.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there’s more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you’re smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx
    But, but how can that be? If ebikes are well on the way towards world domination, why is the ebike forum so lame, and ebikers outnumbered by mountain bikers?

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Any “proven cases” of trails being lost to mtbrs due from emtbs? If the LM say cool, then why the hatred? This older crowd of ebike riders have done nothing for Mtb trails thru the years?
    Not around here, because they ain’t allowed.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Not around here, because they ain’t allowed.
    Dude, you’re doing nothing to keep ebikes out of Pisgah. Why? Because you don’t have to. You’ve seen 1 emtb? Why are you so worried then? A little insecurity bike snobbery?
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
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  24. #324
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    Furthermore, who are you to judge what cyclists want to ride for entertainment? If they are legal then wtf?
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
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  25. #325
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    This thread is awesome evidence why ebikes should have their own forum and why patching a way to block the ebike forum from people's experiences who don't want to see it won't work.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  26. #326
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    Here's a quote from Harryman from one of the locked threads:

    This ebike forum is a great resource for those who are anti-ebike. Access is rarely discussed on ebike forums, where 100% access is just assumed to be coming, so this forum is pretty illuminating for a lot of people on both sides. Plus, it's pretty amusing to watch people tie themselves in knots over discussions that have very little bearing in the real word.
    I must say that I have been amused, especially today, so I'll allow it!
    Quote Originally Posted by sito40 View Post
    You guys should chill out. Take some weeds!

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckleberry hound View Post
    I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.
    Malware

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Dude, you’re doing nothing to keep ebikes out of Pisgah. Why? Because you don’t have to. You’ve seen 1 emtb? Why are you so worried then? A little insecurity bike snobbery?
    Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen. Yup, one confirmed sighting for me, and I aim to keep it that way? Do you ride pisgah? Seen the signage? What exactly is “insecurity bike snobbery”?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Furthermore, who are you to judge what cyclists want to ride for entertainment? If they are legal then wtf?
    When did I judge you? I don’t care what you do, as long as I’m not affected and your doing your thing where it’s legal. Furthermore, once you add a motor, you’re really not cycling anymore.


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  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen.





    Keep doing this, it is quite effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    This thread is awesome evidence why ebikes should have their own forum and why patching a way to block the ebike forum from people's experiences who don't want to see it won't work.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    I don't know how it started but there are three or four who are on the other side of the debate that continually bring it up. I think there is great benefit to it being here if the atmosphere was a little less antagonistic.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  32. #332
    Contains no juice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Keep doing this, it is quite effective.
    Hey, it beats writing to the Cheeto-In-Chief, where you know it's just going to be ignored.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    +1

    how do you post "+1" and get around the "your reply is too short"?
    idk

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Keep doing this, it is quite effective.
    So far, it really has been. They wish to have nothing to do with them. They’re already stretched thin. But man, you oughta see ‘em clamor to take a spin on my pedal mountain bike machine! And I let ‘em! They just love it.

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen. Yup, one confirmed sighting for me, and I aim to keep it that way? Do you ride pisgah? Seen the signage? What exactly is “insecurity bike snobbery”?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ebikes aren’t allowed in Pisgah, no worries. I ride my Mtb there occasionally. Want a real workout? Turn the assist off and pedal.
    🥓🍺🚲🔧☕️
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  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Hey, it beats writing to the Cheeto-In-Chief, where you know it's just going to be ignored.
    try tweeting....
    always mad and usually drunk......

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there’s more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you’re smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx
    Will see how it goes to sort out where it will be moved in the forum list.

    Cool story Bro time: I think about the time I saw an old Colnago racing bike in a garage sale* with ape hangers on it. It was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. I thought for sure this was stolen or something and what a crime to have these tall bars on a vintage racing bike.
    Turns out the owner an older Italian guy used to race it in his youth. He at one time got into a car accident and his back no longer allowed him to ride a bike unless he was sitting up so he put the tall bars on it. He was selling it since he got an electric assist trike and could not ride it the bike so much anymore. I will ride till my knees stop working. After that I will look for alternatives to remain active on a bike; if it takes three wheels or a motor to help me get up the hills.

    *I did not buy the bike it was way too big for my short legs, had a "Make an offer, don't insult me" sign on it and at the time I lived in a 350 square foot studio apartment with 4 bikes, 2 unicycles a girlfriend and a small dog.

    -Philip

  38. #338
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    Philip,

    Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.

    Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    We as a community need to evolve past that point.


    Not in mountain bikers best interests.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Philip,

    Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.

    Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.
    A fat bike has a wider tire. An bike is a motorized vehicle. Great comparison. We need to evolve? This is just the type crap non ebikers are annoyed by. I don’t care what others ride, but I don’t have to evolve to a motorized vehicle or anything else you want me to.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd.
    This is not true. eBikers are white, opponents are bad, nonsense.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    This is not true. eBikers are white, opponents are bad, nonsense.
    What does ethnicity have to do with it?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Philip,

    Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.

    Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.
    The fact that the most fundamental part of the ebike (the motor) versus the bike (no motor) is a trivial difference to you is where the frustration lies. But yeah, go ahead and and add up the pieces to make your point. It's still non-sensical.

    And again, I like eBikes and feel there is a place for them. Just don't say they're the same.
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    Philip,

    I think the last few posts made my point for me.

  45. #345
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    this thread right here is living proof that keeping things the way they are now (ebike forum) riles up a specific set of users and the longer it goes on, the more who are itching to post another opinion about it. ALL bristly and negative, this is not going to solve itself by waiting it out.
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  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Philip,

    I think the last few posts made my point for me.



    You made your point, it however doesn't mean you're right. You're not by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    My only 02cents ...beginner's corner should be at top of all forums, I think newbies will navigate the site better, instead of posting wherever.

    Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk

    Maybe a new/used bike advice forum. 90% of the beginner posts are "I just got this bike, what do you think", or "Narrowed it down to these 3", and a lot of them are not even entry-level; one lately was $3700. Many times they post in there and say thanks for the bike advice and that's it, the thread is done. People ask in all kinds of forums what others think of a certain bike, so maybe one dedicated forum for that, no matter what the bike type and experience level of the rider. That way the post is moved to the correct bike advice forum. Then the beginner forum could focus on stuff they do after they buy and ride the bike, like component upgrades and technique, etc. And if you saw my videos you know I need technique advice lol.
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  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Philip,

    I think the last few posts made my point for me.
    The point that was proven is that people like you are being passive aggressive. You can’t come in here and try to sound like Mr. Civilized, blaming everyone else for starting sh*t, while telling everyone they should conform to your way of thinking and evolve into whatever it is you think everyone should evolve into. That’s called stirring the pot, and completely contradicts the first part of your post. Again....I couldn’t care less about whether or not someone rides a motorized bike. I’ve never seen one and I've never commented on them before this thread, today.

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    You made your point, it however doesn't mean you're right. You're not by the way.
    Exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  50. #350
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    Hey, new MTBR owner, please be advised that eBikers are lying sods, they get on here and start arguments and spout stupid platitudes all day long. Please ban them all and then bring back all the other non-Ebike folks who have been banned, even things out.

    Please make MTBR great again.


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  51. #351
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    Philip, you may want to look into Jim-bo's past to see what he's really about. Here's a thread he started yesterday, he's all about arguing and stirring the pot:

    No politics or religion???

    Please notice that one of the top mods had to lock down his thread and warn him to quit purposely causing problems. I think he got a sterner warning in another thread,

    Maybe you can implement that if someone gets enough neg rep, they automatically get banned?
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  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Hey, new MTBR owner, please be advised that eBikers are lying sods, they get on here and start arguments and spout stupid platitudes all day long. Please ban them all and then bring back all the other non-Ebike folks who have been banned, even things out.

    Please make MTBR great again.


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  53. #353
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    Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.



    and you Troll....
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  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Philip,

    Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.

    Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.
    Good post. In fact, the best one I’ve read in a long time. We have a bunch of butt hurt individuals here that judge people before they know anything about them. Purists- bs. Bunch of whiny a**s posters. If this is how mtbrs represent themselves - shame.
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  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Good post. In fact, the best one I’ve read in a long time. We have a bunch of butt hurt individuals here that judge people before they know anything about them. Purists- bs. Bunch of whiny a**s posters. If this is how mtbrs represent themselves - shame.



    Judging modes of travel is not judging people. Little wonder why you struggle with simple facts.
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  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.
    Jim-bo should look up the meaning of truth.
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  58. #358
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    I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.

    How about back to some other sub forums. Here’s an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the “Apparel and Protection” forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn’t get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.

    Gear Funk?

    So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

    More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Judging modes of travel is not judging people. Little wonder why you struggle with simple facts.
    You have no FACTS that show loss trail access due to ebikers sharing legal singletrack.
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  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.

    How about back to some other sub forums. Here’s an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the “Apparel and Protection” forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn’t get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.

    Gear Funk?

    So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

    More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.
    That's just a symptom of a larger problem, overly enthusiastic, ineffectual moderation.

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  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.

    How about back to some other sub forums. Here’s an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the “Apparel and Protection” forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn’t get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.

    Gear Funk?

    So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

    More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.
    I agree that there are so many subforums with very little traffic, and it does get to a point where some consolidation is in order. The flip side is that if one forum gets too busy, threads get pushed out of sight very quickly. It's a balancing act.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    You have no FACTS that show loss trail access due to ebikers sharing legal singletrack.
    YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.
    Valid point. Which is why we should continue to have spirited discussions concerning eBike issues where valid opinions and ideas are exchanged. The problem is that anti-eBikers are free to be as abusive and personal as they like with little restraint from moderators. However, pro-eBikers are held to a far different standard. Moderators have even gone so far as to make a legal determination (which is contrary to the legal opinion of the only openly declared environmental attorney who has commented on the topic) and then stated that any opinion contrary to that legal opinion would be seen as a violation of forum rules.

    Poor, biased moderation is at least half responsible for all of the vitriol surrounding the eBike discussion.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.
    Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.
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  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.
    I completely agree with this perspective. I don't own an eBike, nor do I have plans to own one any time soon. But I do recognize the potential to use the momentum of eBikes to the advantage of MTBs. But that requires open minds and open discussions. We should be weeding out the eBike haters and preserving these forums for a serious, civil exchange of ideas.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.
    Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.

    This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.

    I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.

  67. #367
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    I don't know DJ, in many ways the more sub-forums, the better. With any sub, users who want it will use it and those who don't can just ignore it. When the subs bleed over and/or cross pollinate with issues you care about, then it allows you to chime in.

    There might be a long term risk for the site by trying to be everything for everybody though. Sometimes specialized content is good.

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  68. #368
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    MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?
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  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?
    Does the lemon law apply here?
    One gear is all you need.

  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.

    This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.

    I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.
    You make valid points. But this is not the appropriate thread to have this discussion. Feel free to start a new thread in the appropriate forum and I, for one, will be glad to engage in a civil and open minded discussion.

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Philip, you may want to look into Jim-bo's past to see what he's really about. Here's a thread he started yesterday, he's all about arguing and stirring the pot:

    No politics or religion???

    Please notice that one of the top mods had to lock down his thread and warn him to quit purposely causing problems. I think he got a sterner warning in another thread,

    Maybe you can implement that if someone gets enough neg rep, they automatically get banned?
    It works that if you get enough warnings you get a vacation. The neg rep = banned idea could result in pile-on attacks and sandy bib shorts.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.
    How about back to some other sub forums. Here’s an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the “Apparel and Protection” forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn’t get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.

    Gear Funk?

    So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

    More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.
    Re ordering and some re naming of sections is in order but I can see where this would have warranted it being moved.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    That's just a symptom of a larger problem, overly enthusiastic, ineffectual moderation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    I agree that there are so many subforums with very little traffic, and it does get to a point where some consolidation is in order. The flip side is that if one forum gets too busy, threads get pushed out of sight very quickly. It's a balancing act.
    This is a common problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.

    This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.

    I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.
    Its possible they are too busy piloting their electric powered entitlement on your favorite trails and not here to see this argument. Or they just hang out in the ebike section and not bothered by the rest of the site. Fair land use is a big deal, I see it all over jeep sites we work with too. The more advocates you have the more lobby money you have to keep trails open and not turned into condo developments.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?
    Nope.

    -Philip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    Moderators gonna Mod.
    Some in particular are a tad over enthusiastic and moderate through a lens of the personal bias and beliefs.


    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    Its possible they are too busy piloting their electric powered entitlement on your favorite trails and not here to see this argument. Or they just hang out in the ebike section and not bothered by the rest of the site. Fair land use is a big deal, I see it all over jeep sites we work with too. The more advocates you have the more lobby money you have to keep trails open and not turned into condo developments.

    -Philip
    You've stepped in it now. There is minimal appetite here for a modern advocacy approach.



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  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I don't know DJ, in many ways the more sub-forums, the better. With any sub, users who want it will use it and those who don't can just ignore it. When the subs bleed over and/or cross pollinate with issues you care about, then it allows you to chime in.

    There might be a long term risk for the site by trying to be everything for everybody though. Sometimes specialized content is good.

    Crap! I said the "S" word, I might get sued.
    Agreed, I'm not sure that if the whole site becomes like the Nor Cal forum where they just create all their new threads on any subject in that one forum that that would be a good thing. I imagine some of it is how one navigates the site. I almost always hit the "new posts" button but I think DJ said he navigates by just going to his favorite forums.
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  75. #375
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    Hey there Philip! Good to meet ya!

    I'll say I don't mind all the sub forums. I appreciate stuff being sorted out so I know where to look for info or where to just hang out for a while.

    The fat bike subforum is a good thing. Please don't take it away!

    And I like being able to have a simple password; gets me going on the site faster!

    Also, I don't like the "movie" ads. The static ads get my attention. Just ask Jenson USA; I ordered my Hei Hei from them a little over a month ago thanks to the darned ad on the right of this screen. Ha!

    Welcome and good luck!

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  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotHead View Post
    Hey there Philip! Good to meet ya!

    I'll say I don't mind all the sub forums. I appreciate stuff being sorted out so I know where to look for info or where to just hang out for a while.

    The fat bike subforum is a good thing. Please don't take it away!

    And I like being able to have a simple password; gets me going on the site faster!

    Also, I don't like the "movie" ads. The static ads get my attention. Just ask Jenson USA; I ordered my Hei Hei from them a little over a month ago thanks to the darned ad on the right of this screen. Ha!

    Welcome and good luck!

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    Why so angry, HotHead?

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Agreed, I'm not sure that if the whole site becomes like the Nor Cal forum where they just create all their new threads on any subject in that one forum that that would be a good thing. I imagine some of it is how one navigates the site. I almost always hit the "new posts" button but I think DJ said he navigates by just going to his favorite forums.
    Yes I do navigate that way. Jump around from forum of interest to forum of interest. I doubt very many new users coming in go to the “new posts” button first. It doesn’t exactly stand out and I’m sure it is over looked by many. I think that tool of navigation is one that is picked up by some after time spent in here.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Some in particular are a tad over enthusiastic and moderate through a lens of the personal bias and beliefs.
    You've stepped in it now. There is minimal appetite here for a modern advocacy approach.
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    Its rare that I don't hear this from every site I work on. At least you said there are only some here you you don't agree with.

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  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    Its rare that I don't hear this from every site I work on. At least you said there are only some here you you don't agree with.

    -Philip
    My issue is when you, as a mod, say "I don't like X" in a thread and then moderate the same thread in a manner that shows a double standard against X it's wrong. Even doing the same in a separate thread is wrong.

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  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    My issue is when you, as a mod, say "I don't like X" in a thread and then moderate the same thread in a manner that shows a double standard against X it's wrong. Even doing the same in a separate thread is wrong.

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  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRadmin View Post
    You can report the post, all the mods including me see it when you do.
    -Philip
    Happened a long time back but will do it in the future.

    Basically it was I don't like X so if other people who don't want to troll you I won't stop it but you can't return the favor.


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  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Here’s an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the “Apparel and Protection” forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses.
    Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by sito40 View Post
    You guys should chill out. Take some weeds!

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.
    Actually it everything to do with the topic. Everyone was making washing the funk out of your gear so hard. It seemed everyone’s solution was 5 steps or more. Double dipping a chip can be mind bending if you are at a social gathering and have to remember to go through so much trouble as to not to double dip a chip. Just dip it and be done with it. Just wash the garment and be done with it. To enter DJ’s train of thought is to go where no man has gone before.

    Besides go back to that thread. The Seinfeld clip was posted early on. There were still 3 days of active posting going on after it. Then it was moved and not a single post until I went in and made a comment of it being moved and it died because of the move.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  84. #384
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    vit·ri·ol
    ˈvitrēəl,ˈvitrēˌôl/Submit
    noun
    1.
    cruel and bitter criticism.
    "her mother's sudden gush of fury and vitriol"
    2.
    archaicliterary
    sulfuric acid.
    3.
    discussions of motor assist in a group of people who
    desire the freedom and challenge of doing it themselves
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.
    But whack-a-mole is a heap of fun with enough beer.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.
    Not possible. EVERY thread has a relevant Seinfeld scene associated with it in some way.

  87. #387
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    The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:

    -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.

    -Idiot, go back into the sticks and keep kissing Donalds *^&

    -You're a ****ing idiot


    There is no excuse in this kind of abusive behavior. And the reputation system only encourages that.

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Not possible. EVERY thread has a relevant Seinfeld scene associated with it in some way.
    Yep, he’s not a fan so it all falls short of hitting the mark.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:

    -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.

    -Idiot, go back into the sticks and keep kissing Donalds *^&

    -You're a ****ing idiot


    There is no excuse in this kind of abusive behavior. And the reputation system only encourages that.
    nah the rep system is designed to let you reflect on how you are wording things in the general giant group vs your one way of saying it. You can make your points and arguments very well said and understood -without- collecting neg rep, [it just takes more time to draft your posts before pounding save button...

    .... I have zero idea how I get pos rep but I get negged also, because I am pretty much a dick half the time and an idiot the other 3/4ths the time.


    However, if you are getting neg rep with those sort of comments embedded, and all the time, you may need to ask a mod (who acts cool headed, or else they aren't mods) and ask them who is the dick here, me or the neg repper. because clowns who just deliver neg rep can be sorted out and mods need to know who the neg repping boneheads are.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:

    -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.

    -Idiot, go back into the sticks and keep kissing Donalds *^&

    -You're a ****ing idiot


    There is no excuse in this kind of abusive behavior. And the reputation system only encourages that.
    I get those lovely immature comments also. Sometimes so bad it sounds like I kicked their dog and molested their boyfriend!
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  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    nah the rep system is designed to let you reflect on how you are wording things in the general giant group vs your one way of saying it. You can make your points and arguments very well said and understood -without- collecting neg rep, [it just takes more time to draft your posts before pounding save button...
    Given the wording of the comments that go with the negative rep, I'd say the system is not working.

    The reputation system really becomes little more than a high school popularity contest. If you say things that align with the more aggressive posters (regardless of how you say it), you get lots of positive rep. But, if you have a different opinion than the aggressive posters (regardless of how you say it), you get neg rep along with abusive comments.

    I have been personally attacked on this forum so many times I've lost count. I usually let the offender's bitterness speak for itself. However, I do not personally attack anyone and I have never given neg rep. The neg rep system is really childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    .... I have zero idea how I get pos rep but I get negged also, because I am pretty much a dick half the time and an idiot the other 3/4ths the time.

    I think this does a good job of making my point for me. Having positive rep is far more about saying things that align with people's agendas rather than a reflection of tone, demeanor, or credibility of a post.

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

    More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.
    There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.

    This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.

    I don't think there is an easy answer to this.

    Trust me when I say I agree that many of the sub-forums or sub-sections need to be merged or pruned. I made a big list for FC a few years ago. No need for Components and 29er components to name just 2. Someone else mentioned no longer having a wheel size specific forums at all... lots of ideas.

    If we eliminate the apparel and protection forum, then all those discussions end up in General, is that good? Is that bad? I am not really sure.

    But I know this for certain, if so many subs are removed that the General forum starts to look like the NorCal forum I will jump ship.
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  93. #393
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    Just moved this to the Off Camber Section, can anyone give me a reason why it would belong in the General Section?

    Cutting your own hair

    If that has no business in General, then the Gear Funk has no business in General either...... ;-)
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.

    This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.

    I don't think there is an easy answer to this.

    Trust me when I say I agree that many of the sub-forums or sub-sections need to be merged or pruned. I made a big list for FC a few years ago. No need for Components and 29er components to name just 2. Someone else mentioned no longer having a wheel size specific forums at all... lots of ideas.

    If we eliminate the apparel and protection forum, then all those discussions end up in General, is that good? Is that bad? I am not really sure.

    But I know this for certain, if so many subs are removed that the General forum starts to look like the NorCal forum I will jump ship.
    Just wait! California is going to split into 3 soon! Imagine the possibilities!

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Just wait! California is going to split into 3 soon! Imagine the possibilities!
    Honestly I think there is something to be said for having a NorCal, Central Cal and SoCal sections on this site since the state is so large and has so many riding areas, but figuring out what posts would need to be moved to it would be a full time job.
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  96. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Just moved this to the Off Camber Section, can anyone give me a reason why it would belong in the General Section?
    Because Picard.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Honestly I think there is something to be said for having a NorCal, Central Cal and SoCal sections on this site since the state is so large and has so many riding areas, but figuring out what posts would need to be moved to it would be a full time job.
    That will fit very well if the state breaks up into three as proposed by many.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    That will fit very well if the state breaks up into three as proposed by many.
    I doub't the state will actually break up, NorCal could not afford to pave the roads (in my mind NorCal starts north of Frisco.)
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  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I doub't the state will actually break up, NorCal could not afford to pave the roads (in my mind NorCal starts north of Frisco.)
    You say that like it's a bad thing. Maybe if the roads are left unpaved, they'll eventually revert to singletracks. Win!
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yep, he’s not a fan so it all falls short of hitting the mark.
    I am a fan, just not a very good one. I admit I didn't even watch the clip, and I don't know what it's really about, but how could chip dipping be related to gear funk?? Don't answer that, I'll try to make the connection next time.

    @Phillip: Can you increase the file size for gifs by quite a lot, I can't even upload/post small ones, only the tiniest ones will upload.

    Announcement: Mtbr has a new owner!-too-big.jpg

    *EDIT: And it would be nice if we could post some of these modern formats, like gifv and mp4 embeds!

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    Last edited by Cornfield; 1 Week Ago at 05:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by sito40 View Post
    You guys should chill out. Take some weeds!

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