• 03-15-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    4 Attachment(s)
    Gary Fisher Roscoe Owners.....
    Hey guys,

    I'm just wondering how many of you have managed to crack your frame?

    After a weekend and a race in Wales i've cleaned the bike to find a crack through the drive-side chainstay, at the front of the furthest forward cable boss, just about where the big chainring ends. The frame it little over a year old.

    The problem is, there is already a little damage on that exact area of the frame due to chain-suck, I don't think it's likely to have contributed to the crack as i've heard of a few frames cracking in this spot before.

    What are people's thoughts on Trek being likely to honour the warranty despite this chain-suck scraping? I won't be back in south England where the frame was purchased for a few weeks so thought i'd find opinions here beforehand.

    And how many people of you have cracked the frame in this area?

    Cheers

    Joe

    here's a few pics of the crack...

    EDIT: 3rd and 4th pictures added after second crack was found in undamaged area
  • 03-16-2011
    Trail Traveler
    I don't see anything in those pics that would give Trek a reason to deny your warranty. Do you have one that shows the chain suck damage?
  • 03-16-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Yep, Sorry I should of posted a picture of that really. The majority of the deep scratching was done at once, and the scuffed area does slightly overlap the crack. I've also found another crack in a different area, on one of the welds (see picture) where there is no damage whatsoever..... so I should be ok in thinking they'll be able to replace it no problem despite the other damage.... I hope!

    I'll add the photo's in the first post, as I wont have to upload them to another website first
  • 04-03-2011
    VTPossum
    Did you notice any flexing or any other unusual performance issues? Noises? Those cracks look they could have caused some problems. I had my Roscoe (same frame) out today for the first time in months & it chain sucked a couple of times (unusual). I have also had a strange noise from the back of the bike. I'm going to clean it up & check it out. Glad to hear it didn't buckle on you causing a wreck.
  • 04-05-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Nothing performance or noise wise, the bike performed as well as it always did. If anything I'd had less chain suck recently than I had before. Hope there's nothing wrong with your frame.... it seems to be that most fail around the point shown, sometimes snapping rather than cracking.
    The shops sorting it out anyway, apparently it should be a warranty replacement despite the damage.
    As far as the chainsuck goes, do you use a BB with or without spacers? I'm thinking in future of adding one, it should increase the gap between the rings and the frame = less chainsuck damage
  • 04-06-2011
    skidmore
    just curious guys to what causes chain suck? I just bought a roscoe and kinda a newbie and would like to avoid that if at all possible. I've got a few miles on it so far and no problems yet.
  • 05-01-2011
    VTPossum
    Yep, my chainstay is cracking just in front of the cable boss-identical to the OP's pic. I had ordered new chainstays awhile back because of the damage from chain slap-my buddy assured me it was nothing to worry about, but I had already pulled the trigger. I hadn't wrapped it with anything so figured it was my bad. If I had, I may have never seen the crack. Damned if you do/Damned if you don't. Quite sure it's the source of the click/squeak noise I'm hearing. Hope to swap it out this week. I also have a noise and vibration coming from the back it seems.Wonder if it's something with the ABP? Perhaps my drive shell is wearing? The back hub spins great and we have tightened down the cassette.
    I have really enjoyed this bike over the Possum it replaced. It handles great and certainly climbs much better than it's predecessor. Hopefully once the new stays are on & it's all torqued back down it will be rock solid again.
  • 05-03-2011
    tduro
    After breaking the chain stays on my 2008 HiFi+ 3 times in a year, I was upgraded to a 2010 Roscoe frame. It took 1-1/2 years to break the Roscoe (chain stays again). My LBS turned it around in 5 days at no charge, so I can't complain. I love the way the bike rides, but I don't like feeling like I have to be careful all the time.
  • 05-03-2011
    VTPossum
    That sounds like great service. Where did the stay fail ? if you don't mind me asking
  • 05-08-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    VT possum, glad you only had to wait 5 days. 7 weeks later and my replacement chainstay still isnt even in the country. A call to Trek let me know that it's due to get to the UK on the 10th May. I wonder how long it'll take them to send it the 60 miles from their headquarters to me....
    I dont think chainslap or chainsuck damage would contribute to the chainstay cracking, they seem to crack in this area regardless.

    Im wondering what they'll give me when it snaps again and there's no spare Roscoe parts around.... I've heard theyre re-introducing it for next year, although i'm guessing it'll follow te 29er trend like the rest of fishers bikes
  • 05-08-2011
    VTPossum
    Hey Joe, sorry to hear about the long wait. My stays took about a month before they made it to the LBS - I think. We had a communication gap. Unfortunately my history is similar to tduro's in that I have only gotten 12 - 16 months from a frame before it cracks somewhere. Fisher replaced the frame but missing riding time is a real downer. So a 29'er Roscoe? Wonder what that would mean for the Rumblefish? I would like to make the Roscoe a 650B. On the 650B forum someone said it won't work on the rear. Maybe Fisher /Trek could design so it would. Seems like it could be done. Some Stan's Flows, DW Link?....Some Rugged Chainstays lol.
  • 05-08-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    I'm sure it'll be worth the wait ;)
    Same here with the time period, it took one year of use. What's your opinion on why they crack there?
    To me It looks as though suspension movement would stress the outer section of the bend on the chainstay more than the inner section where the crack is. It seems as though the only force acting in that area that could fatigue it a sufficient amount to cause damage, would be vertical flex from each side of the rear axle where the abp bearings are- causing twisting in this area of the chainstays.(If i've explained that well enough?) It's a shame that the new 12mm abp axle dosn't look like it'll fit on the Roscoe.

    Here's one of the articles that briefly mentioned a new roscoe, right at the end in capitals. Not sure where else I read about it
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/new-tre...-7-dh-bike-and

    Not sure I think bigger wheels on a bike like this would bring much more to it! Part of the great thing about it is how well it performs in tight twisty singletrack, i've heard bigger wheels make bike's less agile- although i've never ridden a 29er myself
  • 05-11-2011
    hopsalot
    Mine broke in the same place as the OP. I was up and running in 7 days, thanks to GF and Trek.
  • 05-26-2011
    MTBiker483
    Broke my Roscoe frame in exactly the same spot too. I have heard this happened a lot on early production runs b/c the boss was placed poorly and welded with a little too much heat, weakening the chainstay there. The chainstay I was given as a replacement had the boss in a slightly different position, I have put 3x more miles on the new one than than the first one that broke with no issues, fingers crossed...
  • 05-31-2011
    blueline
    ChainStay Crack aft of cable attach point
    Got a 2009 Roscoe III discovered crack on aft end of cable attachment this weekend before a ride. Have bike at LBS and hoping for prompt replacement. Will keep all posted, missing my bike already!
  • 07-16-2011
    lvspeed
    frame
    Hi Joe. Well, that`s a busted frame all right. Odd that it broke that way. It should have broken across the flat side, as learned from sport motorbike swing-arms. It takes huge force to get any flex at all on the tall side. The flat side is designed to flex to allow better tracking on rough surface when leaned over. I have to agree that too much heat was used on those stupid guides. Can we order a frame with NO guides? Be nice.
    This all makes one ponder if my `09 Roscoe is on borrowed time. I am 6 ft 2 and 1/8 of a ton with riding gear + camel back and love to charge over everything on my magic GF creation. Oh well, until it breaks, it`s the best mountain bike in history.
  • 07-28-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    I've gotta admit, i've heard of a lot breaking there so I wouldnt trust it to last forever!
    Now the shocks broken!
    Oh well. Road riding for a while it looks like
  • 08-01-2011
    danjthomas
    Hi All, my Roscoe has decided to crack on me last week whilst riding Les Gets in the French alps. It is a 2009 roscoe one. My LBS has stated that the replacement frame or part will be with me from the US to the UK in 10 to 14 days. id be happy to have the exact part again in Black to match the frame but am concerned that they will give me a random colour that does not match the front half of the frame. Perhaps if they dont have the colour matched part for my bike they will just give me a full frame in the colours that they do have. Any thoughts on this. Has everyone had matching parts or been given a full frame?
  • 08-01-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    My LBS seemed to make a big deal about having the colour matched for the new part. Did they ask what colour yours is? I'm sure they'll make sure its the same.

    Slightly off topic, but does everyones Fox Float on their Roscoe have a medium rebound tune and low velocity tune? (says on the side of the shock)
    My shock's leaking from the damper. A service in the UK is 120, I can get a new one from Taiwan for 110 with medium velocity tune instead of low.
  • 08-01-2011
    MTBiker483
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by danjthomas View Post
    Hi All, my Roscoe has decided to crack on me last week whilst riding Les Gets in the French alps. It is a 2009 roscoe one. My LBS has stated that the replacement frame or part will be with me from the US to the UK in 10 to 14 days. id be happy to have the exact part again in Black to match the frame but am concerned that they will give me a random colour that does not match the front half of the frame. Perhaps if they dont have the colour matched part for my bike they will just give me a full frame in the colours that they do have. Any thoughts on this. Has everyone had matching parts or been given a full frame?

    Sorry to hear about your frame! I have a 2009 Roscoe II on which I broke the chainstay. It is a silver frame, yet I was given a chainstay from the 2010 lineup which is black. I would put in a request immediately to get one that is the same color, which I'm sure doesn't guarantee that you will, but it wouldn't hurt to ask!
  • 08-01-2011
    blueline
    Good News! maybe!
    My 2009 White Roscoe III cracked as well (see blueline post above). Brought bike to LBS (where I bought bike) they got with their Trek Dealer and I got a UGLY Blue, Silver 2010 swing arm. Not happy after spending that much for the bike. Well, I live between 2 places (states) and brought cracked bike with me as I waited for parts to be shipped in.

    :thumbsup:Went to the LBS I have gotten it serviced in another state. They got and installed a far more acceptable color (the same color swing arm as your picture).

    The Trek Reps (on-line contact only), responded to me via several emails and while they don't offer paint they went out of their way to ensure I was as happy as could be. So bottom line keep asking and who knows what it will get you. BTW, getting used to my WHITE and black bike!
  • 08-12-2011
    lvspeed
    Ok already!
    Thank you for discussing our fragile frames to death. Can we move on?
    Who thinks the off-set spoke design is very cool? I don`t see other companies trying this. Why not? Seems like a good solution.
    It sure is hard to find a place for the rear wheel quick-release. It wants to stick out and grab branches, or stick down and whack rocks. Ideas?
    With Nevegals mounted the grip is amazing. No wonder the front refuses to slide out tho, just try to hop the front wheel over a surprise rock on your path. Nope, you just bashed it. The weight bias is way forward. This might be an easy fix with a inch more pull-back on the bars, along with sliding the seat rearward. God the thing rips. Even chased my kid thru a bramble patch that he easily ducked. Yeah I know now; don`t ever try to show hard riding kids how good you are. It hurts way to much.
    :skep:
  • 09-08-2011
    ADMtnBiker
    Another one down...
    I just found the same has happened to my Roscoe 3!!! The claim has been filed... crossing my fingers that this will be addressed soon. I've only had this frame 1.5 seasons but this bike is sweet, so I really hope they can simply ship out a new chainstay.
  • 09-20-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ADMtnBiker View Post
    I just found the same has happened to my Roscoe 3!!! The claim has been filed... crossing my fingers that this will be addressed soon. I've only had this frame 1.5 seasons but this bike is sweet, so I really hope they can simply ship out a new chainstay.

    Bad luck.

    Does anyone know if the new part comes with a 2 year warranty, or if it is only covered by the 2 year warranty from the date of purchase?

    EDIT:

    Nevermind! I thought the rear triangle only had a 2 year warranty, but just checked the fisher website and it seems to be covered for life! Woop :)
  • 09-20-2011
    MTBiker483
    So if you bought a fisher bike BEFORE they got rid of their lifetime warranty, will the new chainstay or frame be covered for life, or 2 years?
  • 11-13-2011
    vaisnava
    damn, that is a serious crack. I am crying for you... :(
  • 11-17-2011
    Davidcopperfield
    It returns in 2013 as a 29er. Beware!
  • 11-23-2011
    ferrettank
    Dang it, i'm about to buy a 2009 Gary Fisher Roscoe 1 off of Craigs list :(, i'm guessing the warranty would not transfer :/
  • 12-14-2011
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Nope, it wouldnt.

    Managed to break mine again, the chainstay is bent rather than cracked.

    Seems to have buckled sideways, as a result the cranks won't turn without hitting the chainstay. Seems pretty odd!
  • 03-23-2012
    skidad
    New Roscoe owner
    Just picked up a new leftover 2010 Roscoe 1 for $1,500 for my son. I'm thinking that's a pretty darn good deal for this bike? (shop has 1 left in 17.5 size and also a 2010 Roscoe 3 15" but local pickup only in MA)

    Anyway, besides the cracking problem on the swingarm (bike has full warranty so that's good) what other issues or things should I be checking or watching out for on this bike? Any special hardware to be closely watching?

    I'm removing the outer ring for a bash guard and was wondering about the XDX 2.4 tires. Are these any good and worth wearing out (New England rocks and roots) or should they be replaced with something more conditions appropriate? They look heavy? I'm a fan of the Duster wheels but how is the tension from the factory? How's that Shimano rear hub hold up?

    Any advice appreciated!
  • 03-25-2012
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Just picked up a new leftover 2010 Roscoe 1 for $1,500 for my son. I'm thinking that's a pretty darn good deal for this bike? (shop has 1 left in 17.5 size and also a 2010 Roscoe 3 15" but local pickup only in MA)

    Anyway, besides the cracking problem on the swingarm (bike has full warranty so that's good) what other issues or things should I be checking or watching out for on this bike? Any special hardware to be closely watching?

    I'm removing the outer ring for a bash guard and was wondering about the XDX 2.4 tires. Are these any good and worth wearing out (New England rocks and roots) or should they be replaced with something more conditions appropriate? They look heavy? I'm a fan of the Duster wheels but how is the tension from the factory? How's that Shimano rear hub hold up?

    Any advice appreciated!

    I found the lower shock eyelet bushing developed play fairly quickly, replaced with heavy duty mount hardware from betd-cycles and no problems since. Frame bearings are JNK if i remember right... pretty cheap and mine get crunchy fairly quickly after wet UK winter riding. In short- just routine maintenence!
    Rode mine for the first time in ages (bought a hardtail) for a dh race yesterday, forgot how smooth it is! I'd prefer a slacker head angle though
  • 03-28-2012
    NoCoMTB
    Not a bad deal at all. As you mentioned swingarm (chainstay) problem's, I am on my 3'rd one. If it breaks again, I'm doubtful there will be any left over to replace at which point they'll probably have to replace the whole frame... Keep an eye on the suspension linkage bearings, bushings, and hardware - I've had issues with them all.

    I would say the XDX tires are worth wearing out. They performed reasonably well for me in the dry, dusty, rocky conditions typical to Colorado's front range, but I did not like them enough to ever buy more of them either.

    The rear hub is ok, but if I were you I would go ahead and buy a spare freehub body to keep in the parts bin. I don't know how much time your son is going to be spending on the bike, but I have replaced mine every season since I've owned the bike as they do fail, and it's a drag waiting for it to arrive at your shop if they don't have one in stock... Much better to already have it on hand. Easy $20 fix though!
  • 03-28-2012
    skidad
    Thanks for the info gents. Sounds like the usual linkage stuff to keep on top of and check the swingarm area after every ride. Will also pickup a freehub body since I assume I can't throw just any wheel on the back with the ABP setup?

    Oh, is that freehub something special for the Trek ABP or a standard Shimano M525SL I can order aftermarket?

    Just a great looking bike with good reviews but I think Fisher overpriced them so they didn't sell very well? My son saw one at a shop when it was $2K, loved it, and I said not happening and dealer wouldn't budge on price. When this popped up for $1,500 I had to grab it. He'll be pumped to get it I'm sure.
  • 03-28-2012
    NoCoMTB
    Trek will tell you that the freehub is something special (and overpriced) but it is not - it's just a re-labeled shimano part. I can't remember the specific part# but mechanic at my shop knew exactly what it was and ordered a couple for me, they were about $20 each.

    I'm not sure it was overpriced more so than anything else in Trek's lineup, though I feel like it didn't necessarily have any strong points over the Fuel or Remedy. I bought mine because I got a sweet end of the year deal on it, and really thought it performed well when I demoed it. If it weren't for the sweet deal I got and I was still set on buying a Trek, I probably would have gone with the Remedy.

    I still love the bike when it's in working order, though after multiple chainstay failures and linkage headaches, I hesitate to really push it sometimes.
  • 03-28-2012
    joehspicer@msn.com
    You can use any standard QR 135mm back wheel. The dropouts are the same as any other Quick Release frame, the ABP just requires a longer squewer (the one on the bike) as the bearings from the ABP make the whole setup wider than a normal QR would be able to clamp
  • 03-28-2012
    NoCoMTB
    That is correct - the ABP pivot mechanism is contained outside of the standard 135mm dropouts.
  • 03-28-2012
    skidad
    Great info, thanks again guys!!
  • 04-19-2012
    F-Bomb
    I am considering purchasing a second hand 2010 Gary Fisher Roscoe III but I am getting anxious with all your reports of broken frame...

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MTBiker483 View Post
    Broke my Roscoe frame in exactly the same spot too. I have heard this happened a lot on early production runs b/c the boss was placed poorly and welded with a little too much heat, weakening the chainstay there. The chainstay I was given as a replacement had the boss in a slightly different position, I have put 3x more miles on the new one than than the first one that broke with no issues, fingers crossed...

    Is looks like the 2009 models are quite problematic? Are the 2010 frames better? Would you mind posting a picture of a revised, more robust chainstay?

    Cheers
  • 04-20-2012
    NoCoMTB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by F-Bomb View Post
    I am considering purchasing a second hand 2010 Gary Fisher Roscoe III but I am getting anxious with all your reports of broken frame...



    Is looks like the 2009 models are quite problematic? Are the 2010 frames better? Would you mind posting a picture of a revised, more robust chainstay?

    Cheers

    The chainstay is exactly the same - the only difference is that the forward most cable boss is welded on in a slightly different location. The earlier models broke because that boss was welded on with too much heat on a spot where the chainstay is already subject to a lot of stress, causing them to fail there.
  • 05-02-2012
    sukebe
    I'm in exactly the same situation as F-bomb, though I'm not sure if it is a 2009 or 2010 (it was bought on clearance in late 2010 so it coult be either). Hearing all these stories of breakage is getting me a bit worried now. I'm coming from a 120mm travel XC/Trail bike that I have bashed and smashed for 2 years and never seen a hint of a crack or bend.

    Also, the bike I'm looking at has an issue where the shock linkage bolt is sticking out a bit and is rubbing on the seatstay linkage arm, resulting in a bit of metal being gouged out. Anyone else seen this problem? The seller is going back to the LBS to try and get it warrantied based on poor build by the LBS, though I suspect that they might call "poor maintenance" on his behalf.

    Tough call, do I buy an as-new Roscoe 2 (seller said it was an impulse buy and has sat in the shed most of its life, I believe him as it rides and presents like a brand new bike) for $1500 but with no warranty and a fair risk of frame breakage, or do I spend $3000 on a Remedy 8 and have the comfort of a full warranty, DRCV fork, extra 10mm travel, thru-axle rear etc.
  • 05-02-2012
    F-Bomb
    My recommendation is to talk to the owner about the issue and see if he is willing to give you a significant discount on the bike to take this likely issue into account. If he is not willing to do so, don't buy; there are many other good used bikes around.

    Personally, I ended up purchasing a second-hand 2011 Avanti Torrent 3 and I am happy.
  • 05-26-2012
    cloudripper
    Just bought a used 2009 Roscoe 1....so far so good, no visible cracking, but I did get it for a very good price. I figure it's like a used car - you can get more car for your money, but the trade-off is you probably have more costs on the maintenance side.

    Question: are there still spare parts for the Roscoes sitting in Trek's inventory?
  • 05-27-2012
    sukebe
    I'm of the same opinion. I also just bought the Roscoe I had been looking at, though mine came with a brand new 2010 frame with a 2012 RP23 with Boost Valve. Given that the 09 Roscoe 2 I bought was replaced by a 2010 Roscoe 3 frame with a 2012 shock, I would say that the spare parts inventory is pretty thin (not that it really matters that much, warranty does not carry to a second owner). At less than half the price of the equivalent Remedy, if it breaks I could part it out and probably still break even.
  • 06-07-2012
    ferrettank
    1 Attachment(s)
    Crap, well guys, I think i'm in the club now :D

    yes, im slightly pissed, ughhhhhh, anyways stay away from the 2009 gary fishers, i'll see how the warranty goes, but dangggg O.o
  • 06-08-2012
    NoCoMTB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ferrettank View Post
    Crap, well guys, I think i'm in the club now :D

    yes, im slightly pissed, ughhhhhh, anyways stay away from the 2009 gary fishers, i'll see how the warranty goes, but dangggg O.o

    As long as you are the warranty holder, you will be taken care of. If there are no more Roscoe chainstays in the inventory you will likely be offered a Fuel or Remedy. Even though Trek no longer offers lifetime warranties on those bikes - you should be grandfathered in since you purchased a lifetime warranty with your bike. Let us know how things progress!
  • 06-08-2012
    thegooddoctor
    The area where cable housing guides/bosses are placed on thin walled tubes is very critical. This along with the fact that the right side chainstay (drive side) is more heavily loaded than the left due to pedaling forces makes this type of cracking relatively common within companies who don't have effective frame testing apparatus' that account for driveside pedal loading. One Taiwanese guy I work with describes welded guides/bosses as "putting can opener on belly of whale". An apt analogy. Anyhow, I don't think high weld temps would be the culprit with alumunum since the weld looks good in your pics i.e. no divots or thin spots where the aluminum moved away from where you want it. It looks to me that what you have here is a part of a frame that wasn't properly designed/tested and has subsequently been redesigned to move the boss away from the highly loaded part of the tube. I'm also guessing that once the first crack started, the chainstay began flexing more and so the next "weakest" area became overloaded and another crack started. I have broken a lot of right side chainstays in the last 40 years.
  • 06-10-2012
    ferrettank
    Yeah, I remember when I got the bike, I was told, "don't worry we never have issues with the 2009's, there indestructible", well, yeah......, I mean, the bike is still my favorite the handling is amazing O.o. But yeah I took it to the local bike shop, they took some pics, sent it into trek, there like "Ouch :O, its common but still, doesn't look to fun". Now i'm waiting on a reply from trek, and i'm now running my dads DH Gary Fisher, King Fisher 2 for XC rides xD, quite painful haha.

    But yeah, the crack is right where the hose guide is welded on, so if they send me the same faulty part, I might be a little mad, but, we will see ;)
  • 06-11-2012
    joehspicer@msn.com
    Let us know if they're going to replace the part or give you a new frame! I'd like to go for a remedy next time mine goes, but we'll see!
  • 06-11-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joehspicer@msn.com View Post
    Let us know if they're going to replace the part or give you a new frame! I'd like to go for a remedy next time mine goes, but we'll see!

    Well I know they still have Roscoe 3 frames around for warranty as I was offered this or a Trek EX9 frame for a broken 2008 Hi Fi. Not sure on just the rear triangle.
  • 06-17-2012
    hopsalot
    So...Since Trek changed there warranty policy this raises a question.

    When Trek runs through their ware house of Roscoe swing arms and converts us all to Fuels/Remedies will this effectively void our life time warranties?