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  1. #1
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    2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 4+



    I hooked a Fish for $300.

    I told the seller (nice guy) I only needed the bike and
    he ended up throwing everything else in the deal anyway.
    So, I got my summer rig (until I can eventually afford a custom build).
    I think it's a pretty good deal. I'm liking the Fox Float Shock and
    I can live with the LX group. I have a 2009 Gary Figher Opie
    with a cracked seat tube that I can cannibalize for parts if needed
    (but from the looks of it, this bike is in better condition than my'09).
    Bar ends, pedals, seat bag, water bottle, pump...all coming right off.
    Going on: My Shimano M-737 SPD's.

    Immediate upgrades:
    ODI Rogue grips, Kenda Nevegals, tubes, WTB Saddle, Easton EA70 Bar,
    Kool Stop brakes pads and possibly a Thompson stem & dropper seat post
    (if it can be transferred to my next bike).

    [Going to drop it off at my LBS so they can service the fork/shock and give it a once over.]

    2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 4+ (19")
    • Crank Brothers Egg Beater pedals
    • Blackburn mtn. air pump,
    • water bottle cage
    • bar ends
    • seat bag
    • tire irons


    Highlights:
    • Frame Platinum Series ZR9000 double-butted aluminum
    • Fork Manitou Black Comp 100mm
    • Rear Shock Fox Float
    • Deore LX Group
    • G1 Geometry






    Last edited by 2ndgen; 07-13-2011 at 06:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    So, what should I keep my eye out for?
    What are the weak points?

  3. #3
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    Chain suck and worn suspension bushings. Good bike, good price, have fun!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    Chain suck and worn suspension bushings. Good bike, good price, have fun!
    Thanks!

    Yeah. From what I've come to understand, a switch of the crankset from Bontrager took care of that. I have a Shimano crankset on mine.

    I just saw the bike yesterday for the first time (I had my GF buy it for me sight unseen on my behalf besides pictures). It turns out that the bike is in excellent condition (almost new). The seller wasn't kidding when he said it was hardly used...again, a great guy).

    The bike is literally shining. I'm going to detail it a bit and then post pics later today.

    I really scored on this one. As stated, it's going to my LBS (who are expert MTB builders) and have them check it out completely, tune up the fork, check the bushings (of course).

    I "may" swap in my Shimano EF50 shifters (bottom of the barrel bits) because I really loved how quickly they responded and despite my beating then to a pulp, they just "worked" (rain or shine, mud or snow, blazing heat or bitter cold). I'll have to believe that the '06 Shimano C050/Acera Derailleurs won't be as good as the LX stuff, so I'll leave that on the bike. "If" I do decide to upgrade anything, I'll just jump to XT770 (anything that I can transfer to my next bike) and if I happen to come across a good deal on a used Fox fork, it'll be a done deal.

    I'm hoping some Sugar owners will chime in and post pics of their bike as well as what upgrades they've done that really improved performance. I'm still in awe at how clean this bike is.

    Last edited by 2ndgen; 07-16-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  5. #5
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    For any Sugar owners interested (or anybody for that matter), upgrades:
    • ODI Rogue Locking Grips
    • Easton EA70 Monkey Bar
    • Thomson Elite 4X Stem
    • Thomson Elite Seat Post
    • WTB Rocket V Pro Saddle
    • Kool Stop Dual Compound Pads
    • Shimano PD-M737 SPD Pedals
    • Kenda Nevegal DTC 2.35 Tires
    • Fresh Tubes


  6. #6
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    Reminds me of when I sold my XTR (M950 generation) equipped Schwinn Homegrown Factory XT HT for $300 after throughly beating it up for 15k miles, moving to NY from FL and finding that its brakes were totally inadequate for the speeds and terrain I encountered on the mountains there. Rather than upgrade (no disc brake mounts), I got a new bike.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Reminds me of when I sold my XTR (M950 generation) equipped Schwinn Homegrown Factory XT HT for $300 after throughly beating it up for 15k miles, moving to NY from FL and finding that its brakes were totally inadequate for the speeds and terrain I encountered on the mountains there. Rather than upgrade (no disc brake mounts), I got a new bike.
    I upgraded with transferable parts, but it is tempting to upgrade to discs "if" I end up swapping in a 120mm-130mm Fox Fork & Wheelset. The most I'd do is a fork upgrade. I'm going to quite there and keep in mind that the purpose of this bike is to put smiles on my face until I can afford to get a custom built rig.


  8. #8
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    nice!!! sweet deal

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nailtrail View Post
    nice!!! sweet deal
    Thanks.

    It should be out of the shop in a couple of days and then after that,
    I hit West Virginia for an Epic ride on her to break her in.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Awesome bike 2ndgen. I have a special spot in my hart for 03Sugar 4's. Might be cause I have had mine for 8 years and still looks great! Still loving it. But had to do some upgrades along the way. I'm about $300 away from finishing it. Need a new seat post, bars, headset and seat. But everything else is new.


    Rock Shox Tora Solo Air
    Mavic Crossride disc & Rim wheelset
    Shimano SLX crankset
    Shimano XT shifters
    Hutchinson Cobra Tires tubeless
    SRAM chain
    SRAM cassette
    Shimano XT Front Derailleur
    Shimano XT rear derailleur
    Avid BB7 front brake
    Shimano XT rear V-brake

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaptor View Post
    Awesome bike 2ndgen. I have a special spot in my hart for 03Sugar 4's. Might be cause I have had mine for 8 years and still looks great! Still loving it. But had to do some upgrades along the way. I'm about $300 away from finishing it. Need a new seat post, bars, headset and seat. But everything else is new.

    Rock Shox Tora Solo Air
    Mavic Crossride disc & Rim wheelset
    Shimano SLX crankset
    Shimano XT shifters
    Hutchinson Cobra Tires tubeless
    SRAM chain
    SRAM cassette
    Shimano XT Front Derailleur
    Shimano XT rear derailleur
    Avid BB7 front brake
    Shimano XT rear V-brake
    Nice!

    And thanks!
    How is she shifting with the SLX/XT bits?
    I'm so tempted to upgrade the groupset at the very least.

    My Shug has a few chips on the bottom tube, but that looks like its
    from bring transported because the rest of the bike is in great shape.
    Once I detail it and get a sunny day, I'll post some fresh pics.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    Nice!

    And thanks!
    How is she shifting with the SLX/XT bits?
    I'm so tempted to upgrade the groupset at the very least.

    My Shug has a few chips on the bottom tube, but that looks like its
    from bring transported because the rest of the bike is in great shape.
    Once I detail it and get a sunny day, I'll post some fresh pics.
    Oh it makes a WORLD of difference! Its like night and day! After that upgrade it felt like a new bike. Smooth fast shifting on demand. Your talking about 8 year old components and upgrading it to today's standers. It really makes the bike fly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaptor View Post
    Oh it makes a WORLD of difference! Its like night and day! After that upgrade it felt like a new bike. Smooth fast shifting on demand. Your talking about 8 year old components and upgrading it to today's standers. It really makes the bike fly.
    Thanks. Just what I "didn't" want to hear!

    I actually have a road bike that I took from entry-level Sora/Tiagra all the way up to the creme of the crop Dura Ace.
    My LX Deore bits aren't shifting as nice as I'm use to. I just lubed it again and am going to see how it runs.
    I've tuned it up to where she shifts gears well enough, but I'm a stickler for smooth shifting.
    But you know what'll come next if I go with the groupset right? Fork then brakes then paint.

    I already have $800. into this Shug with another $300. coming in.
    Again, all stuff I can transfer over to another bike.
    I'm looking at a Turner 5 Spot for my über-bike.
    But then again, I might just keep this one too.
    Can't have too many bikes you know.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    Thanks. Just what I "didn't" want to hear!

    I actually have a road bike that I took from entry-level Sora/Tiagra all the way up to the creme of the crop Dura Ace.
    My LX Deore bits aren't shifting as nice as I'm use to. I just lubed it again and am going to see how it runs.
    I've tuned it up to where she shifts gears well enough, but I'm a stickler for smooth shifting.
    But you know what'll come next if I go with the groupset right? Fork then brakes then paint.

    I already have $800. into this Shug with another $300. coming in.
    Again, all stuff I can transfer over to another bike.
    I'm looking at a Turner 5 Spot for my über-bike.
    But then again, I might just keep this one too.
    Can't have too many bikes you know.
    Sounds like a winner! Have some fun with your GF. Its one hell of a ride.

  16. #16
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    Fighting the Upgraditis.



    Definitely going with a WTB saddle and a Salsa post clamp and a set of XTR Trail Pedals
    (even though my PDM737 SPD's are working perfectly fine). The pedals alone would
    drop my bike's weight by more than 1/2 lb (240g). All these are in line with my "keepable"
    upgrade option.

    My OEM Bontrager Superstock wheels are true and roll well and they are in great shape aesthetically.
    There is absolutely NO reason for me to swap out the wheels.
    BUT! Came across a great deal on a set of Mavic Crosstrails.
    The swap would drop 369g's from the 30.1lb weight of the Sugar.
    Not an insignificant amount. If I went with the wheels and pedals,
    I'd drop a full 1.34lbs taking the Sug down to about 28.76lbs.

    Granted, I got the bike's weight on a bathroom scale, so it may very well
    be less than 30lbs already, but I'm not getting weenie on this bike.
    (Have a Park Tool table top scale and hanging scale on the way)
    It's just great to find a rig for $300. that is already at 30lbs.
    I must admit, getting her to 27ish pounds would be nice though.

    After that, the only other upgrades left would be the groupset, fork and brakes.
    And "if" I went with the brakes, that would mean another wheel swap.

    It's so hard "not" upgrading it. I want to see how far I can take her.
    She's billed as an XC bike, but I think the Sugar's overbuilt for that.
    It makes a really nice trail bike. I wouldn't go AM with it,
    but it looks sturdy enough to take a light beating.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    ... it may very well
    be less than 30lbs already, but I'm not getting weenie on this bike.
    Sounds like you already are, forget about the weight, go ride and have fun.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    So, what should I keep my eye out for?
    What are the weak points?


    They have a nasty habit of cracking on the rear triangle. Would normally be a warranty item, but since it is used......ride it til it breaks.

    Also keep an eye on the mount for the rear shock on the front triangle, they have cracking issues around the weld.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    Sounds like you already are, forget about the weight, go ride and have fun.
    Somewhat guilty as charged.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    They have a nasty habit of cracking on the rear triangle. Would normally be a warranty item, but since it is used......ride it til it breaks. Also keep an eye on the mount for the rear shock on the front triangle, they have cracking issues around the weld.
    Thanks! I am doing precisely that.

  20. #20
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    I should just do the wheels, saddle, clamp & pedals and call it a day. ($450./total more)
    Then, just keep it as a back up bike even "after" the Turner is built.

    Discs would cost me a total of $$500. more (disc wheels/brakes fr & r) for entry-level stuff,
    it'd easily add a pound back to the bike and I doubt it would be worth it for how I ride.
    The V's w/Kool Stops are good enough.

    But damn...a decent used Fox 32 would look (and function) great on it.
    Then it turns into a $2K 8 year old bike that can crack. Grrr.

    See? It's like a disease.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    I should just do the wheels, saddle, clamp & pedals and call it a day. ($450./total more)
    Then, just keep it as a back up bike even "after" the Turner is built.

    Discs would cost me a total of $$500. more (disc wheels/brakes fr & r) for entry-level stuff,
    it'd easily add a pound back to the bike and I doubt it would be worth it for how I ride.
    The V's w/Kool Stops are good enough.

    But damn...a decent used Fox 32 would look (and function) great on it.
    Then it turns into a $2K 8 year old bike that can crack. Grrr.

    See? It's like a disease.



    I would spend no more money on a 8 year old bike.

    Save the money and buy a new/newer bike.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    I would spend no more money on a 8 year old bike.

    Save the money and buy a new/newer bike.
    I bought it for 300. Everything else I put into it is transferable to my next bike (no loss there and I get the benefit of the upgrade
    over the original parts replaced). Of the rest of the upgrades in mind, only the wheelset would basically not be able to be
    used on my next bike (it's a rim brake specific wheel). The pedals and saddle and seat clamp, all transferable too.

    I know for a fact I would greatly benefit from the wheelset. I already rock a set of Ksyriums on my road bike
    (the MTB set I'm going to get is of the same caliber). "With" the wheelset, the Sugar would still only end up costing me $540.
    For a back up bike, that's not bad at all. When I get the new bike, I'll swap the components with the current bike.
    I'd still have a much better than stock Fisher and it wouldn't cost me anything more than the purchase price & wheelset.

    So, I will "not" be going all out and upgrading to disc brakes/wheels & another fork.
    And the wheelset I'm getting is overkill for this particular bike but damn worth it.

    I will stop at my next set of upgrades and that's it (wheels, seat clamp, saddle and pedals).




    Edit: What a little research yielded...
    For about $15. more than the V-Brake wheelset,
    I can get a set of BB7 brakes that'll work with my levers
    and a 2010 disc wheelset with the same 2 year warranty.

    The '09 V wheelset is a better wheel and weighs 150g's less.
    The '10 disc wheelset is not as hot as the '09, but again,
    there is only a 150g weight penalty and they are disc ready.
    So, full upgrade to discs/wheelset? Only $300./shipped.
    (For another $30., I can get the BB7 complete brakesets,
    new levers, cables and all...that'd be waaaay better: $330.)

    I'll decide in 24 hours.
    Last edited by 2ndgen; 08-30-2011 at 05:39 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    I bought it for 300. Everything else I put into it is transferable to my next bike (no loss there and I get the benefit of the upgrade
    over the original parts replaced). Of the rest of the upgrades in mind, only the wheelset would basically not be able to be
    used on my next bike (it's a rim brake specific wheel). The pedals and saddle and seat clamp, all transferable too.

    I know for a fact I would greatly benefit from the wheelset. I already rock a set of Ksyriums on my road bike
    (the MTB set I'm going to get is of the same caliber). "With" the wheelset, the Sugar would still only end up costing me $540.
    For a back up bike, that's not bad at all. When I get the new bike, I'll swap the components with the current bike.
    I'd still have a much better than stock Fisher and it wouldn't cost me anything more than the purchase price & wheelset.

    So, I will "not" be going all out and upgrading to disc brakes/wheels & another fork.
    And the wheelset I'm getting is overkill for this particular bike but damn worth it.

    I will stop at my next set of upgrades and that's it (wheels, seat clamp, saddle and pedals).




    Edit: What a little research yielded...
    For about $15. more than the V-Brake wheelset,
    I can get a set of BB7 brakes that'll work with my levers
    and a 2010 disc wheelset with the same 2 year warranty.

    The '09 V wheelset is a better wheel and weighs 150g's less.
    The '10 disc wheelset is not as hot as the '09, but again,
    there is only a 150g weight penalty and they are disc ready.
    So, full upgrade to discs/wheelset? Only $300./shipped.
    (For another $30., I can get the BB7 complete brakesets,
    new levers, cables and all...that'd be waaaay better: $330.)

    I'll decide in 24 hours.
    Your frame requires a special adapter to run disc brakes......don't know whether Trek still makes/stocks them.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Your frame requires a special adapter to run disc brakes......don't know whether Trek still makes/stocks them.
    Thanks.

    From what I've read, it was for 2000 and 2001 frames I believe?
    Didn't hear anything about it for 2002 & up.

    When I order the brakes, I'm going to inquire on what frames they fit.
    They come with adapters, but I'll have to find out if that adapter will
    work with the Sug frame.

    If it can't be done, then I'll just roll with the V's and the better/lighter wheelset.
    But again, thanks for the insight.

  25. #25
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    I've made it through the temptation.
    I decided to "not" go with the brake upgrade.

    Just going with a WTB Rocket V Pro Saddle, (so far) a Salsa
    Seat Post Clamp & a set of XTR985 Trail Pedals and that's it.

    Going to start stackin' my chips for my next "Build".
    I think this bike is done. That's as far as I'm going to take it.
    Now, I'm just going to ride hard and put it up wet.
    Thanks for the input fellas.



    Last edited by 2ndgen; 09-01-2011 at 02:03 AM.

  26. #26
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    Update:
    Have the Rocket V Saddle, but Salsa clamp came in too small. Got the right size on order.
    Weight comes in at a high 29lbs. Going to finally put her through her paces on some great
    trails in WV at the end of the week. Pics to follow.


  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    I should just do the wheels, saddle, clamp & pedals and call it a day. ($450./total more)
    Then, just keep it as a back up bike even "after" the Turner is built.

    Discs would cost me a total of $$500. more (disc wheels/brakes fr & r) for entry-level stuff,
    it'd easily add a pound back to the bike and I doubt it would be worth it for how I ride.
    The V's w/Kool Stops are good enough.

    But damn...a decent used Fox 32 would look (and function) great on it.
    Then it turns into a $2K 8 year old bike that can crack. Grrr.

    See? It's like a disease.

    I would not worry too much. I really have put some nasty wrecks and hits to the sugar 4. I do believe it will last. And really if you put the good stuff on the bike it always is transferable to a new bike. I say invest in it if it brings you pleasure. I am more then happy with mine.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaptor View Post
    I would not worry too much. I really have put some nasty wrecks and hits to the sugar 4. I do believe it will last. And really if you put the good stuff on the bike it always is transferable to a new bike. I say invest in it if it brings you pleasure. I am more then happy with mine.
    Thanks.

    Will have pics with all the new bits on it up by this weekend.

  29. #29
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    Hey, sorry to join this thread so late. The adapter for your Sugar to convert to disc is part # 87855 from your Trek or Fisher dealer. I also have an'03 Sugar 4+ and I love it still. Everything has been upgraded over the years, and I hope to keep riding it for many more years.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishxpig View Post
    Hey, sorry to join this thread so late. The adapter for your Sugar to convert to disc is part # 87855 from your Trek or Fisher dealer. I also have an'03 Sugar 4+ and I love it still. Everything has been upgraded over the years, and I hope to keep riding it for many more years.
    Sweet! Ill keep that in mind. My front disk and rear V-brake set up works out pretty well for me. Once I get a little bit more cash flow Ill be getting a whole new bike, and keeping my Sugar as a back up.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishxpig View Post
    Hey, sorry to join this thread so late. The adapter for your Sugar to convert to disc is part # 87855 from your Trek or Fisher dealer. I also have an'03 Sugar 4+ and I love it still. Everything has been upgraded over the years, and I hope to keep riding it for many more years.
    Thanks!

    FYI:
    I got this source directly from Trek for suppliers for Disc Brake Adapters:

    Torontocycles Disc Brake Adapters, Caliper Adapters, b&s adapters


  32. #32
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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ymGk3lXNHnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  33. #33
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    They disappeared from the original post, but here are the "Before" pics...


  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    Update:
    Have the Rocket V Saddle, but Salsa clamp came in too small. Got the right size on order.
    Weight comes in at a high 29lbs. Going to finally put her through her paces on some great
    trails in WV at the end of the week. Pics to follow.

    It looks like the seat clamps are within 2 grams of each other (Salsa VS OEM Gary Fisher clamp).

    The GF clamp is basically new believe it or not.
    No major weight savings there, so there'll be no reason to change it.
    I'm sending the Salsa clamp back. It's not necessary and there is no great benefit.

    I guess that just leaves pedals (Shimano XTR 985 Trail) to upgrade.
    The PD-M737's are working just fine, but there's a 146g saving there.
    (985 @ 370g VS 737 @ 516g)

    While (believe it or not) the OEM Bontrager Race Basic Saddle was comfortable enough
    for me (it's been on 3 bikes so far), the WTB is better and looks much better on the bike.
    Hoping to get her out in the next few days for some nice pics before I dirty her up.



    Last edited by 2ndgen; 01-02-2012 at 12:02 PM.

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    I'm watching this thread as I have a Sugar+ 4. I bought it new in 2004. Recently I've started working on the Sugar. I've put on disk wheels and installed the rear disk adapter that Trek used to sell (it's available on Ebay for $35). Next stop Avid BB7 disk brakes front and rear.

    Over the past 8 years I've also upgraded to XT shifters and XTR rear D. The front is still LX.

    After the disk brakes I'm probably done upgrading this bike. The fork and shock are still working OK, but surely are in need of upgrading.

    I don't have many miles on this bike - probably less than 200 miles, I'm a roadie, but have started riding MTB near my home about 2 times a week. I'm lovin' it and enjoying the bike. I don't know if I'd enjoy a new bike that much more.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    I'm watching this thread as I have a Sugar+ 4. I bought it new in 2004. Recently I've started working on the Sugar. I've put on disk wheels and installed the rear disk adapter that Trek used to sell (it's available on Ebay for $35). Next stop Avid BB7 disk brakes front and rear.

    Over the past 8 years I've also upgraded to XT shifters and XTR rear D. The front is still LX.

    After the disk brakes I'm probably done upgrading this bike. The fork and shock are still working OK, but surely are in need of upgrading.

    I don't have many miles on this bike - probably less than 200 miles, I'm a roadie, but have started riding MTB near my home about 2 times a week. I'm lovin' it and enjoying the bike. I don't know if I'd enjoy a new bike that much more.
    Coincidentally, all day today I've been struggling with going that far into upgrading the Sugar:
    -Mavic Disc Wheels -XT-M770 Group -130mm Fox Fork -Elixir 3 Disc Brakes
    + adapter for the rear -Matte Black Paint w/Gold Outline Factory Decals

    Got pics of yours?

    Then I remember why I got it. I have a Turner 5.Spot in my future for the Spring.
    It was meant to be a transition for me until I could build a custom MTB.
    Still, it's such a nice riding rig that I feel like it deserves to be upgraded.

    I'm almost finished building my -----> CAAD9.
    Just need a 58mm carbon wheelset and a little more Weight Weenieing
    to get her down to 15lbs (right now, she's back up to 16.49lbs w/pedals).

  37. #37
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    I hear you. Upgrading an old bike is fun, but there is a point where you are just throwing away money. I did that with my first road bike. I bought a great 2005 Trek bike on CL for $400. A real bargain. Then I upgraded everything but the frame. I learned a TON about working on bikes and the bike was really great. But then I bought a new Felt Z4 carbon/ultegra bike and I've only riden the Trek once since then.

    I probably put an additional $1,000 into the old Trek. But it's not worth any more than the $400 or so I paid for it. But its a great back up bike.

    The Sugar+ 4 I bought new. We lived in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and it was a great place to ride. In 2005 I started upgrading it with a plan to make it a Sugar+ 2 with my upgrades -- that's when I added the XT/XTR stuff and the disk wheels. Then we moved to Texas and I lost interest in the summer heat here.

    After putting in 2500 miles on the road this past 6 months I decided to clean up the Sugar and take if for a ride in a local park. It was super fun, so I've gone 3 more times and enjoyed it each time.

    That's what's got me upgrading again and putting disk brakes on her. However, I plan to stop there. If I keep riding and enjoying THEN I'll get a new bike. I've got my eye on a Niner FS 29er.

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    you guys got me motivated to put in a little work with my 02 Sugar 2+.

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    On paper at least the Sugar is hard to beat for a cheap bike. Anything else for what you'd spend on a 7 year old Sugar is going to be way below spec.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    I hear you. Upgrading an old bike is fun, but there is a point where you are just throwing away money. I did that with my first road bike. I bought a great 2005 Trek bike on CL for $400. A real bargain. Then I upgraded everything but the frame. I learned a TON about working on bikes and the bike was really great. But then I bought a new Felt Z4 carbon/ultegra bike and I've only riden the Trek once since then.

    I probably put an additional $1,000 into the old Trek. But it's not worth any more than the $400 or so I paid for it. But its a great back up bike.

    The Sugar+ 4 I bought new. We lived in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and it was a great place to ride. In 2005 I started upgrading it with a plan to make it a Sugar+ 2 with my upgrades -- that's when I added the XT/XTR stuff and the disk wheels. Then we moved to Texas and I lost interest in the summer heat here.

    After putting in 2500 miles on the road this past 6 months I decided to clean up the Sugar and take if for a ride in a local park. It was super fun, so I've gone 3 more times and enjoyed it each time.

    That's what's got me upgrading again and putting disk brakes on her. However, I plan to stop there. If I keep riding and enjoying THEN I'll get a new bike. I've got my eye on a Niner FS 29er.
    It's hard to "not" want to drop a few coins into it.

    I was having issues with shifting, but after I mounted it on the stand and tuned it up,
    there were no more issues. I keep reminding myself that it's 8 years old.
    Besides, it literally doesn't need anything whatsoever. As is, she's fine.
    I'd have no regrets if I bought her new and went all out upgrading her.

    I want my next MTB to be just like that...a "Keeper".

  41. #41
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    2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 4+-img_20120114_110717.jpg

    2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 4+-img_20120114_110633.jpg


    So I'm glad to find a Sugar thread... love my son's Sugar 3... he's outgrowing the small so his brother 9yo will get it and I found a Sugar 1 med frame for my 11yo. Prob is I only have crank and Front derailer, LX.

    Need advice on parts to put on it without breaking the bank. Once I figure out how to insert pic.... I will. OK

    Sugar 3 is a 2003 w/ all XT/XTR
    Sugar 1 is a 2002 w/ LX....
    Last edited by 3boysdad; 01-14-2012 at 09:25 AM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3boysdad View Post


    So I'm glad to find a Sugar thread... love my son's Sugar 3... he's outgrowing the small so his brother 9yo will get it and I found a Sugar 1 med frame for my 11yo. Prob is I only have crank and Front derailer, LX.

    Need advice on parts to put on it without breaking the bank. Once I figure out how to insert pic.... I will. OK

    Sugar 3 is a 2003 w/ all XT/XTR
    Sugar 1 is a 2002 w/ LX....
    Nice!

    Welcome aboard 3BD!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3boysdad View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20120114_110717.jpg 
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ID:	666355

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	666356


    So I'm glad to find a Sugar thread... love my son's Sugar 3... he's outgrowing the small so his brother 9yo will get it and I found a Sugar 1 med frame for my 11yo. Prob is I only have crank and Front derailer, LX.

    Need advice on parts to put on it without breaking the bank. Once I figure out how to insert pic.... I will. OK

    Sugar 3 is a 2003 w/ all XT/XTR
    Sugar 1 is a 2002 w/ LX....
    Everyone's idea of "breaking the bank" is different, but build kits are reasonably priced at pricepoint.com, especially if you can wait for a coupon. Or you could buy a bikesdirect.com bike to steal parts. Used is always the cheapest option.

  45. #45
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    SLX groups are extremely reasonable and are now including trickle-down tech from even current XTR.
    For a bike to cruise local trails, that's more than enough. $400. would renew an old bike and bring it into the future.


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    I will def try to get 9/10 speed combo....
    Prefer to find it all used from someone upgrading....from "ok" to great components.

    Love these sugar's !!

  47. #47
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    A complete 2011-2012 LX Groupset goes for between $250.-$300. brand-new.

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    I guess I don't know what's in a "Groupset". Jensonusa & pricepoint are best resources ?
    Thx for input.

    My needs:
    Wheels w/ 9 or 10 "gearset"? $100-200
    Breaks: Levers/Disk/Break $100 ?
    Shifter's with levers $50-100 ?
    Rear Derailer $50-90
    Cables and cover etc...$50

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3boysdad View Post
    I guess I don't know what's in a "Groupset". Jensonusa & pricepoint are best resources ?
    Thx for input.

    My needs:
    Wheels w/ 9 or 10 "gearset"? $100-200
    Breaks: Levers/Disk/Break $100 ?
    Shifter's with levers $50-100 ?
    Rear Derailer $50-90
    Cables and cover etc...$50
    A groupset would include your drivetrain and crankset
    (derailleurs, cassette, chain, crankset, bottom bracket, cables, shifters).

    Here's a groupset for about $250.-$300. w/shipping:
    Shimano Deore Drivetrain - £150.73 - CycleCube



    If you want to go discs, count on spending about $450.-$500. w/discs.

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    I installed Avid BB7s on my Sugar + 4 yesterday. They seem to work fine and using the adapter for the rear frame made it super easy. The brakes were on sale at Performance this weekend and the frame adapter had arrived earlier. It was pretty easy and only took about 1.5 hours all together.

    BUT... I was guessing that the bike was a 2004 model, but I started looking at Treks Vintage bike website and found it's a 2002. I bought it new, but completely forgot when I got it. So, it's a 10 year old bike this year. Certainly, I'll keep riding it, but I doubt I'll put more money into it. At 10 years it's not really worth it.

  51. #51
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    I can't post my photos because I have only 6 posts. You need 10. Ugh.

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    Wow, that was fast.

    So, here are the photos of my brake install and my Sugar+ 4:

    OK, let's try this now...

    Here's some photos:







  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    Wow, that was fast.
    So, here are the photos of my brake install and my Sugar+ 4:


    Outstanding!
    Very nice!

    Question:
    What wheelset do you have?

    Let us know how much better they are than the V-Brakes.
    I think it's a worthy upgrade. Damn that's tempting me.
    It's so hard to not upgrade this bike.

    [BTW...I actually want to paint my Sugar Matte Black.]
    Last edited by 2ndgen; 01-15-2012 at 04:11 PM.

  54. #54
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    Nice BB7's, I have the same on my 2004 Sugar Race. I ran 185mm up front and 160 in the rear.

    Not to hijack, but I saw a "lightly used" 2010 Fox Float R rear shock on cragslist for $80. My question is, does anybody know the size of the shock on these sugars? And if so, are the 3, 4, Race, etc. the same? The size of the Fox for sale is 190mm X 50mm.

    Worst case I can just measure when I get home, but the Gary Fisher Archive page shows the stock as a Float R but no size. I have a Cane Creek AD 12 on there now (I bought frame only). Any help would be amazing, thanks!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaptor View Post
    Awesome bike 2ndgen. I have a special spot in my hart for 03Sugar 4's. Might be cause I have had mine for 8 years and still looks great! Still loving it. But had to do some upgrades along the way. I'm about $300 away from finishing it. Need a new seat post, bars, headset and seat. But everything else is new.


    Rock Shox Tora Solo Air
    Mavic Crossride disc & Rim wheelset
    Shimano SLX crankset
    Shimano XT shifters
    Hutchinson Cobra Tires tubeless
    SRAM chain
    SRAM cassette
    Shimano XT Front Derailleur
    Shimano XT rear derailleur
    Avid BB7 front brake
    Shimano XT rear V-brake
    flat rock ranch?

  56. #56
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    Now that my disk brakes have bedded in properly the bike stops on a dime and gives you 9 cents change. Even in the wet.

    This is a good upgrade. But my next upgrade will be to a Santa Cruz Tallboy AL. I'm not spending any more on this 10 year old bike. I hope it's next owner enjoys the new brakes.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    Now that my disk brakes have bedded in properly the bike stops on a dime and gives you 9 cents change. Even in the wet.

    This is a good upgrade. But my next upgrade will be to a Santa Cruz Tallboy AL. I'm not spending any more on this 10 year old bike. I hope it's next owner enjoys the new brakes.
    Nice!

    I'm done with mine, but it's not like she needs anything anyway.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by security58 View Post
    flat rock ranch?
    Sorry took soo long for respond. Bottom pic is Flat Rock. Top is Emma Long (City Park) Austin.




    Sad face this past week. Went out to Canyon Lake to hit up Madrone Trail and this happened. Found a replacement hanger on amazon for $25 but have to wait a week and a half to get it.
    " width="549">

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    The rocks grow big on that trail. At least it's not a long walk home. Unless you rode your bike to Canyon Lake Park from somewhere else.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaptor View Post
    Sorry took soo long for respond. Bottom pic is Flat Rock. Top is Emma Long (City Park) Austin.

    Sad face this past week. Went out to Canyon Lake to hit up Madrone Trail and this happened. Found a replacement hanger on amazon for $25 but have to wait a week and a half to get it.
    Glad to hear there's a quick fix.

    Question:
    How'd you do it?

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    Fellow Sugar owners...

    I've got 3 boys... as my title implies....

    Two have been upgraded from 24" to a Sugar 1 and Sugar 3 respectively.

    My youngest is more than ready to make the jump to a 26"

    Anybody got a small Sugar with some life left in it ?
    oh... and that won't break the bank.
    Dad = Trek Fuel 5.5
    11 yo = Sugar 1
    9 yo = Sugar 3
    8 yo = Trek 220

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndgen View Post
    Glad to hear there's a quick fix.

    Question:
    How'd you do it?
    I can only guess but I'm really not too sure sure. I thinking the age plus a few weeks ago I had a nice crash and bent the hanger. I had it re straighten but had a feeling it was not going to last much longer after that. After I landed a jump I veered off the trail and went over a few big lose rocks. I think one might have been launched right into my derailleur and thus pushed the hanger to its limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    Wow, that was fast.

    So, here are the photos of my brake install and my Sugar+ 4:

    OK, let's try this now...

    Here's some photos:






    sorry im a newbie. question for ya. What brakes are those BB7s? and are those the stock wheels? I'm thinking about buying a sugar 4+ but i think i would want disc brakes.

    what is that piece called that you have to add because i didnt see a spot for disc brake mounts on the frame?

    how are the v-brakes that come on them stock?

    thanks for the help

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    Yes, they are BB7s. Nope, the wheels are not the originals because they were not disk compatible. The Vee brakes were fine. I could have stuck with 'em. but I had been planning on adding disks for 8 years so I finally just went ahead and completed the process.

    Now the bike is going to be sold and really it was all for nothing. But that's how it goes sometimes.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
    Yes, they are BB7s. Nope, the wheels are not the originals because they were not disk compatible. The Vee brakes were fine. I could have stuck with 'em. but I had been planning on adding disks for 8 years so I finally just went ahead and completed the process.

    Now the bike is going to be sold and really it was all for nothing. But that's how it goes sometimes.
    good info. what size adapter is that?

  66. #66
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    They don't come in sizes.

    They are made for 8 to 10 year old Treks and Gary Fishers. I found it on Ebay. Two guys sell two different versions for about $39. Your bike has to have the three mounting holes built into the stays or it won't fit. The Sugars do. At least mine did.

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    I've got a gf Sugar 3+ 2003 which was the warranty grandchild of my original gf Y-frame back in '98. As much as i loved the Joshua i had in between the Sugar 3+ has been such a fun ride for me. Lots of road and light/medium trail/singletrack and moderate technical trail stuff riding along with my first attempts at learning tricks. I think it's a nimble bike and very responsive and that makes it well suited for lots of riding styles.

    Now i had it outfitted with a manitou Skareb Air Elite front fork and cane creek Cloud Nine rear shock. These worked well for me since i didn't do more than 2 feet or so high drops and wasn't hitting any gnarly rock garden type stuff either. I love this bike and just upgraded the busted shocks for some new gear. Now it's sporting a manitou Minute expert front and rockshox rc3 Monarch rear shock. Haven't taken it for a ride yet, but i'm excited.

    Glad to see other Sugar fans.

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    An homage to my Fisher Sugar 4+

    2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 4+-20120819_160724.jpg


    I just sold my '03 Sugar 4+ -- my first full suspension bike and my only steed these past 10 years.

    I bought it off eBay from a guy in Idaho who had it kitted up as a long-distance tourer with saddle and frame bags and fenders and all that. Got it for $750 delivered with very few miles on it. I think maybe he broke hissef or something training for some massive ride like the CDT or something.

    The first thing I did was upgrade to Shimano XT/LX drivetrain to eliminate the chainsuck I experienced on my first ride. After that it was a carbon Weyless bar and XT v-brakes. I was living in Las Vegas and riding the desert trails and southern Utah mountains, and this bike came to me just when I was ready for it.

    I cracked the fork dropout on the stock Manitou in '04 pulling into my garage with the bike on top (d'oh) -- I was shelled after a 35-mile desert ride outside Vegas, but there was more damage to the house than the bike. Upgraded to an '04 Marzocchi Marathon S, and the extra 20mm of travel plus a lockout made this bike ROCK. Never had any problems with the Marzocchi -- it's still on the bike and works like it was new, never been overhauled.

    Finally I made the decision to go with some new wheels and mechanical disc brakes. In '05 I moved to Colorado and picked up some Mavic Crossland Disc UST wheels and IRD Dual Banger Disc brakes. Once I finally got the brakes set up -- those things were a bear to shim and adjust -- the bike was like new again. The IRD's were powerful, but short-lived, and I went to lighter and simpler Avid BB7's after about 2 years.

    In 2010 some friends and I made a drunken commitment to train for a 12-hour adventure race outside Breckenridge. I decided the Fox Float rear shock was inadequate for my needs in that context, and had started to get new bike fever over a Kona Cadabra, but didn't have the cash to buy a new bike. Instead I opted for a custom-tuned RockShox Monarch RT3 HV from Push...wow, what a huge difference. Small bump compliance was vastly improved, and big hits (for this bike) were handled much more smoothly and progressively. I had a new bike again! My bike was ready for 25 miles of Rocky Mountain singletrack racing. We placed 3rd in our category - a respectable finish, if I do say so.

    2011 brought another move -- from Colorado to New Mexico via 6mos in Tampa for work. That short purgatory in Florida saw a new set of wheels -- Shimano MT65 disc wheels. Way lighter than the Mavics, sealed rim bed for tubeless, but narrower profile too...my Nevegal 2.1's were just a touch wide for them, and the rear tire didn't have as much support. In hard cornering, I could feel the tire roll just a little. The Mavics were relegated to hosting some Michelin slicks for my flat, 12-mile commute and a little urban riding.

    On to New Mexico...and my trusty steed continued to perform well. The 13-year old integrated LX shifter/brake pods were wearing out, though -- I effectively rode a 2x9 setup as I couldn't reliably shift into the big ring...I think one of the teeth broke inside the shifter pod. And I may have had a bent derailleur hanger as the teeth on the cage pulleys kept wearing down to nubs. The underside of the downtube looked like it had measles -- lots of rock chips from years of carrying me through all kinds of terrain. The pivots needed more frequent tightening and loctite to keep them from creaking - they had never been overhauled. But a year of Otero Canyon, White Mesa, and Sandia Peak trails and she was like the Millenium Falcon, saving my ass every time I got in too deep and earning respect from those with much fancier, newer rigs.

    Finally, though...the new bike fever got to me, and I was in the position to do something about it. Banshee. Rune. V2. 650B.

    I toyed briefly with keeping my Sugar, but then a good friend whose teenage son is getting into riding approached me and asked if it was for sale. Had it been a stranger, I probably would have said no...had it been to convert it to a klunker for thrashing around, I would have said no. They took a test ride and loved it. So...for $300, off it went. Now it's someone else's to love.

    This bike saw Cottonwood Canyon, Bootleg, Virgin River Rim, Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane, Horsethief Bench, Mammoth Mountain, Hartman Rocks, 401, Buffalo Creek, USAFA's Falcon Trail, Balm Boyette, Otero Canyon, Angel Fire, Sandia Peak, Breckenridge, various sections of the Colorado Trail, White Mesa...and probably hundreds of lesser-known trails.

    Vaya con Dios, amigo.

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