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  1. #1
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    your home made jigs

    Hi everyone,

    I'm starting to work on building my own jig. I was planning on something very similar to the "simplest frame jig" on instructables, but I thought some inspiration might be helpful. If you have a minute, could you show me yours?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    I thought this was a great overview of jigs and fixtures...

    zip.

  3. #3
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    Frame Jig

    Here's a shot of my setup. Inputs are: BB drop, CS length, front-center, fork rake, ST angle, HT angle, and distance to the bottom of the lower head lug. Close-ups here:

    Flickr: ameade1's Photostream

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails your home made jigs-universal-frame-jig.jpg  


  4. #4
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    Sweet.

    Zipzit, that is a good overview, its really nice to see the variations that people are coming up with.

    And Alex, your stuff looks very, very nice.

  5. #5
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    Alex, what's the weight of that structure? It looks heavy!
    May the air be filled with tires!

  6. #6
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    Blaster, I've not weighed it, but it's likely north of 100 pounds. All of the big flat parts are made from MIC6, but there's quite a bit of flat-ground steel and stainless in there as well. The fixture lays back flat on a pivot (not shown) and locks into the flat position for easier setup. It also can rotate freely in the plane of the frame for easier brazing access. Both axes of rotation are balanced, so the weight is not noticed.

    Alex
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    Last edited by alexmeade; 01-31-2012 at 01:03 PM.

  7. #7
    Let's get weird
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    Not fully complete, but I'll throw this one into the mix.

    More shots and info here


  8. #8
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    Double Post

  9. #9
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    This one I built about 10 years ago, now being used for carbon assembly. If I build another one I'd add more offset for better tacking access. I'd probably get all the parts waterjet cut from MIC6 plate as well.


  10. #10
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    Here's mine, Rexroth profiles (45x45 and 45x90) + some milled parts:


    Jig 2.0 par Edelbikes, sur Flickr

  11. #11
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    I find it interesting that for the most part people seemed to have coalesced around the plate type fixture. That is either a structure on the drive or non-drive that has bits that hold the frame offset from that.

    There are other designs such as the beam type where there is a central beam along the bottom of the frame and you build upwards (many motorcycles jigs use this) or the picture frame jig. A very common design in the past. I believe Ant bikes uses this. Also, Doug Fattic's fitting jig which work from a surface plate and Alex Meade's simple fixturing solution from a surface is also excellent.

    IMHO a solid, flat surface is a much more important thing to own initially than a dedicated frame jig.

    All fixtures have advantages and disadvantages. but for ease of construction if I had to do it over again and was working with minimal equipment I would most likely use the central beam idea or the surface plate solutions.

  12. #12
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    rocking the beam here
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails your home made jigs-img_1094.jpg  


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbohemian View Post
    I find it interesting that for the most part people seemed to have coalesced around the plate type fixture.
    I have no idea how many of which commercial jigs are sold, but this observations seems to correlate with my hunch that Anvil/Bringheli/Henry James might be the most popular? [/wild speculation]

  14. #14
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes View Post
    I have no idea how many of which commercial jigs are sold, but this observations seems to correlate with my hunch that Anvil/Bringheli/Henry James might be the most popular? [/wild speculation]
    I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wfab View Post
    rocking the beam here
    Ah, a two-stage differential jig. I played around with that design for a while, and was wondering when I'd see something like it. I think it's a great design for the garage/basement builder that doesn't have a lot of room.

  16. #16
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    You're spot on regarding the real estate. Super simple and with good rigidity and repeatability.


    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Ah, a two-stage differential jig. I played around with that design for a while, and was wondering when I'd see something like it. I think it's a great design for the garage/basement builder that doesn't have a lot of room.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF View Post
    I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.
    I'm going to have to guess that ~100/year puts you at/near the top. [/less wild speculation]

  18. #18
    Who turned out the lights
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    I have a beam design underway, based on a fixture a friend of mine has. Nailing down a couple of small improvements, and it will be ready.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wfab View Post
    rocking the beam here
    Do you have any shots of a frame loaded into that? Had a look on your site and didn't see any.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    Do you have any shots of a frame loaded into that? Had a look on your site and didn't see any.
    Here you go.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails your home made jigs-img_1096.jpg  

    your home made jigs-img_1007.jpg  

    your home made jigs-img_1106.jpg  


  21. #21
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    3wfab,

    Slick. Looks like you have some measuring tapes glued on there, so I assume you have a spreadsheet to calculate angles and positions. And then do you use a giant protractor or and angle finder for the seat tube?

  22. #22
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    I don't know how 3wfab does his, but on mine, you draw a nice 2d drawing in CAD. I use AutoCAD at work, so I've got good access, and 2d drafting like this is pretty quick and easy. I draw the frame out as it would sit in the bike, and then you have an offset concentrically from the bottom bracket. For mine, you basically draw a line from the center of the BB to an extension line from the head tube (perpendicular). Offset that by 3" below the centerline of the BB. From there, it's really just basic geometry to get all the lengths of tubes you need.

    To do the rear triangle, you extend your "offset" line backwards past the dropouts. Draw a line from the center of the dropout perpendicular to the offset line. That tells you how far back along the fixture spine to set your dropout mount, and how far up from the spine you need to set your dummy axle holder.

    It's all actually pretty slick and pretty simple to use. It's based off of a fixture that James at Black Sheep built for Rob Pennell (Badger) several years ago. Another friend has that fixture now, and I just want to build my own to a)not have to borrow his for 2 weeks at a time and b)make a few minor improvements to have more room to get the torch into places (especially under the BB).

  23. #23
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    BikeCAD here. Use the Bicycle Machinery reference for setting HT. From there, I set the ST angle referenced off of the HT (which is 90 degrees).

    I use a digital angle finder to dial in the ST, which is actually the rear triangle.

    I build the rear first, simply because I can get over the 'hard' sometimes frustrating part of the build first.

    I've built several variations of plate style jigs and IMO, that design utilizing the 80/20 stuff is way more involved than what I want to deal with. 80/20 isn't true and a PITA for jig setup (plate style).

    I'm loving this beam style. Its really simple and 'open' to work around.

  24. #24
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    Any chance you could post some basic dimensions of this Jig? I really like the small size and simplicity.

  25. #25
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    mine

    what don't kill ya, make ya more strong.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF View Post
    I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.
    Curious how many shops are buying more than one?

  27. #27
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    Thanks to the forum for inspiration on my jig!

    Alex Meade gets the credit for the machined bits.

    Gonna build my first frame shortly, hopefully it rides straight lol!

    Scott.







  28. #28
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    Just wondering if anyone has made a DIY style chain stay notcher? I'm trying to get out of buying the Anvil jig for my 1st tig frame...

  29. #29
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    Hey;

    My first attempt at Basement Framebuilding...

    Scroll down toward the bottom of the page.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  30. #30
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    Thanks. Looks like I have some tooling to make.

  31. #31
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    Well..

    You might learn more from doing some the old fashioned way. Then, when it came time to build such a fixture, if you felt you still wanted one, you might have a better feel for how to build it. I wound't call that one extreme or unnecessary (it's very nice), but it is a bit beyond DYI.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  32. #32
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    I have access to CNC mills & lathes so building tools isn't much a problem, just a time issue.

    I do like the idea of drafting it out with autocad/solidworks and just marking and cutting the tubes down by hand might be a nice way to get things aligned and have a develop a feel for it. I have cut down the main tubes with the ever popular tubenotcher program but couldn't find anything to deal with ovalized stays, Do you have any suggestions on where I might find one?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgrano View Post
    I have cut down the main tubes with the ever popular tubenotcher program but couldn't find anything to deal with ovalized stays, Do you have any suggestions on where I might find one?
    Sorry;

    I'm not that far along The Path.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  34. #34
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    I was not able to fina a template for my first couple of frames so I just traced a rough line with the BB shell on the oval chainstay... made sure to cut it a little long, then filed the chainstay until the fit was perfect. Then I used that miter and made a paper template for the other chainstay and filed it until it fit. Took a little while but worked great.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgrano View Post
    Just wondering if anyone has made a DIY style chain stay notcher? I'm trying to get out of buying the Anvil jig for my 1st tig frame...
    Here's mine:

    Chainstay Jig par Edelbikes, sur Flickr

  36. #36
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    Jigs are cool, but I'm a founding member of the Cheap Bastards Club. As this is just a hobby, I seem to keep going toward simple as I get more comfortable with the build process. My miters are all done with files now, and fixturing is nothing more than V-blocks and quick clamps. Angles are derived from BikeCAD. I sometimes use a BB post, but it sucks so much heat even for tacking that I try to avoid it when I can.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails your home made jigs-img_7838.jpg  


  37. #37
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    "Fixturing" doesn't necessarily mean elaborate tooling. It could be nothing more than a really flat surface to work off of. The ability to hold things in place in a precision manner while you work on it is fixturing in it's simplest form.
    what don't kill ya, make ya more strong.

  38. #38
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    Good job! Grt

    It's all actually pretty slick and pretty simple to use. It's based off of a fixture that James at Black Sheep built for Rob Pennell (Badger) several years ago. Another friend has that fixture now, and I just want to build my own to a)not have to borrow his for 2 weeks at a time and b)make a few minor improvements to have more room to get the torch into places (especially under the BB).

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3wfab View Post
    Here you go.



    It's ok. However, with that beam-type of design there is no way to hold the seat tube when tacking the top tube or seatstays. This isn't a problem on the other types of jigs based on surface plates.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    It's ok. However, with that beam-type of design there is no way to hold the seat tube when tacking the top tube or seatstays. This isn't a problem on the other types of jigs based on surface plates.
    True... in theory;

    I hope he will not mind, but I have spoken to 3wfab a number of times regarding his jig journey, and based on his very practical and lucid responses have decided to head in this direction myself. He has already gone through both the "picture frame" and "surface plate" styles of 8020 jigs, and found that the inconsistencies in the material coupled with the difficulty in setting the hard points correctly, made them far less ideal than you might imagine in just looking at one. If your jig is not true to start with due to material tolerance issues, then being able to fix the ST to a crooked jig is of no benefit. Adopting a more modular build by doing the usual ST-to-BB Shell first, and then building the rear triangle in separate jigging offer speed and ease of set up. He then brings the rear triangle into this jig for front tube fitment. I have costed out various configurations, and this one also has the benefit of being a couple hundred dollars cheaper!

    All of these styles offer some degree of compromise, but he has found this one to be far less restrictive, more accurate, and far easier to deal with overall.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  41. #41
    bee
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    True... in theory;

    I hope he will not mind, but I have spoken to 3wfab a number of times regarding his jig journey, and based on his very practical and lucid responses have decided to head in this direction myself. He has already gone through both the "picture frame" and "surface plate" styles of 8020 jigs, and found that the inconsistencies in the material coupled with the difficulty in setting the hard points correctly, made them far less ideal than you might imagine in just looking at one. If your jig is not true to start with due to material tolerance issues, then being able to fix the ST to a crooked jig is of no benefit. Adopting a more modular build by doing the usual ST-to-BB Shell first, and then building the rear triangle in separate jigging offer speed and ease of set up. He then brings the rear triangle into this jig for front tube fitment. I have costed out various configurations, and this one also has the benefit of being a couple hundred dollars cheaper!

    All of these styles offer some degree of compromise, but he has found this one to be far less restrictive, more accurate, and far easier to deal with overall.


    The beam type jig that we are talking about has, IMO, far more downsides than the other types of jigs. The number one advantage is that it is lightweight and saves space compared to the other jigs. This advantage is really minimized when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.

  42. #42
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    In reality, where most if not almost every one welds their bikes out of a jig (not to introduce the whole 'built in stress debate') , an alignment table is only smart, and certainly is needed with any jig style assuming you care and want to measure yourself/techniques. Funny thing, with the beam style jig I am using now, I am always in the .020 range for my ST alignment.

    For me, it doesn't get much better than that. You can go loopy chasing numbers and for most builders, achieving less than .039 is acceptable. Measure some off the shelf bikes and then write home to mom.

    Technique, not tooling my friends. That's where I want to be dialed.

    As far as 'downsides'.....I believe the opposite. The beam preforms. I happen to know of a builder with multiple national championships frames that rocks the beam as well.

    Beam me up Scotty-




    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    The beam type jig that we are talking about has, IMO, far more downsides than the other types of jigs. The number one advantage is that it is lightweight and saves space compared to the other jigs. This advantage is really minimized when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.
    It is ALWAYS essential to have a surface plate.....always, doesn't matter what jig you have. I can work jig-less. I can't work without a flat surface.

    I can't agree with the rest either. Tacking correctly with proper heat control (be it TIG or brazing) holds your alignment. Not a jig.

  44. #44
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    Well;

    This is the extent of my jig, and my first frame, so far. A ways to go yet,
    but there is much learning to do along the way, and the journey worth
    taking is taken in its own time.



    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  45. #45
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    80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.

  46. #46
    WIGGLER
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube View Post
    80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.
    Made with fractional know real reason it's just what I picked!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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  47. #47
    Eric the Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube View Post
    80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.
    I use fractional, only because the first pieces I got were from work and they don't speak metric there.

  48. #48
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    Thanks, I figured as much. Did anyone use the Autocad plug-in to build their fixture fix then send off a bill of materials. seem like the easiest, most straight forward method. I'm looking for a friend with Autocad to 'borrow' the program for this.

  49. #49
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    Hey everyone. I finally finished mine. Here it is:

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by adarn View Post
    Hey everyone. I finally finished mine. Here it is:
    What's that extrusion?

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