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Thread: Warbird.

  1. #1
    pvd
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  2. #2
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    It just looks... right. Well done.

  3. #3
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    That stemdlebar is really really cool.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  4. #4
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    Not my thing at all (I'm the same height and can't stand anything over about 720mm front center even for DH/fullface shenanigans), but well done! Making different weird shit and trying it for yourself is what framebuilding started out as, and should stlll be about.

    -Walt

  5. #5
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    Hmmm, 200mm more into the wheelbase and you have a motorcycle. Thats been a trend for some time.

    Nice build though.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  6. #6
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    I guess pvd questioned if the "bottom bracket" term is obsolete. Can't argue with "crank height" and "crank shell". So much of MTB's BS was carried over from road anyways. Won't miss the stuff as they're replaced by more MTB-specific stuff. Heck, I'm surprised pvd isn't jumping on these early solutions to ditch the RD, considering his past experience wrecking them. Probably not up to his standards I guess.

    I dig the long FC. Will be one of those bikes you charge on, in an aggro tuck with chin over stem. I think it'd be too unstable with a 425mm CS though. I'd up that to 440 or so, just to make it so I won't desire FS and give it a much more peaceful ride quality.

    Once watched some Fab Barel video in which he speaks of Forward Geo testing, and mentioned that things feel weird when the grips are behind the steerer (I think it was with Dirt/Steve Jones, in some relatively candid night time interview). Thinking that he meant the location of the handlebar center...

  7. #7
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    I'm interested to see what Sam and Peter conclude from all this. Particularly Sam at Naked Bicycles actually, as where he rides is my preferred sort of riding (I haven't ridden on the island where he lives, but I have near by and it is reminiscent of what I like to ride at home). Peter already seems fervently 'for' this set up.

    Warbird.-img_1064.jpg
    (pic is from nakedbicycles instagram- carbon bar parts held by pinch bolt to central section ~ very neat!)

    My gut feeling is the FC is too long for me, but you never know. My latest bike is of the longer FC and shorter rear end style of geo, just nowhere near as extreme. My bar set up is a Jones bar with a shortish stem - which interestingly enough has the grip section pretty much in line with the steerer. I've ridden it this way for years and always liked it - just lean forward to weight the front end.

    Warbird.-44867834851_73478eaf73_k.jpg

    Anyhoo, interested....

  8. #8
    650b me
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    Hard to say if I would like the ride characteristics of this bike, but no one gives more thought (or at least shares it publicly) to the subject of bicycle design than Peter. Thanks for sharing, Peter.

  9. #9
    Ride On
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    Nice innovation. Definitely qualifies for the downhill hardtail category.
    Michael

    Ride on!

  10. #10
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    Better than the bad old days.

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    Good to see this type of experimentation going on.

    Curious about what sweep those bars are at. After spending more time on mid-sweep bars (12-20 degrees) going back to stuff under 10 degrees feels odd.

  11. #11
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    @eMcK setting the bar high *sarcasm*

    Chainstay ~20% longer than reach? SA and HA #s swapped*? xD

    * I measured 61d effective angle at the saddle (49d actual), and 67.7d HTA.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eMcK View Post
    Curious about what sweep those bars are at. After spending more time on mid-sweep bars (12-20 degrees) going back to stuff under 10 degrees feels odd.
    PVD's are 9 degree according to his drawing in the link.

  13. #13
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    Love it!
    I just made a frame with 780 front center but only a 130 fork and it's eye opening (414-434mm chainstays). I'm 6ft 1 and it still doesn't feel too long so i can imagine going longer but still crazy to think about what 850 would feel like. I totally get it, though i don't think they climb as well as a shorter front center and steeper angles but the tradeoff on the downhill performance and overall playfulness of the bike outweighs it for me at this point for me.

    When i started building i remember reading all about front center here and it's fun to go back and check out what everyone USED to think about the "right" front center and all. Times have changed a lot in the last 5 years!
    Front-Center

  14. #14
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    Yeah, it's funny. I've built myself some longer bikes and I despise them - for what I do on the local trails. So I guess I've stagnated. But the rest of the world seems to have moved on to longer and longer. Pete, your're riding ~200mm more front center than you were 6 years ago!

    -Walt

  15. #15
    pvd
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    Don't blame me. I just write down the rules. I don't make them.

    Forward Geometry | Peter Verdone Designs


  16. #16
    Ride On
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Love it!
    I just made a frame with 780 front center but only a 130 fork and it's eye opening (414-434mm chainstays). I'm 6ft 1 and it still doesn't feel too long so i can imagine going longer but still crazy to think about what 850 would feel like. I totally get it, though i don't think they climb as well as a shorter front center and steeper angles but the tradeoff on the downhill performance and overall playfulness of the bike outweighs it for me at this point for me.

    When i started building i remember reading all about front center here and it's fun to go back and check out what everyone USED to think about the "right" front center and all. Times have changed a lot in the last 5 years!
    Front-Center
    Cool. What else did you change geo wise besides a longer front centre? Or what is the seat angle, B.B. drop and head angle?

    Also if you donít mind me asking what dropout did you use to achieve a 20mm range?
    Michael

    Ride on!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Cool. What else did you change geo wise besides a longer front centre? Or what is the seat angle, B.B. drop and head angle?

    Also if you donít mind me asking what dropout did you use to achieve a 20mm range?
    Wonít hijack and go into my bike but hereís a little info on geometry. Not nearly as radical as PVDís. Dropouts are Paragon Sliders with 0.8Ē range.
    https://meriwethercycles.wordpress.c...rra-scrambler/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    PVD's are 9 degree according to his drawing in the link.
    ah, missed the measurement. thanks.

  19. #19
    Belltown Brazer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    When i started building i remember reading all about front center here and it's fun to go back and check out what everyone USED to think about the "right" front center and all. Times have changed a lot in the last 5 years!
    Front-Center
    That thread was from the hey-day of this forum IMO. Tons of discussion and info! I miss those days...

    Oh, and nice work Peter, thanks for pushing and documenting.
    Departing from East Hampton, CT

  20. #20
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    Looks interesting, PVD. I'd like to ride it to see how it compares to my most recent rides.

    I'm currently on a Knolly Fugitive, which is the most "progressive" bike in terms of geometry that I've thrown a leg over. For me, it seems like a nice sweet spot -- the longer front center (around 470 with a 160mm fork) works with the ~75 deg effective seat angle and relatively low stack to put me in a position that works pretty well on the flats, very well on the climbs and just about perfect on the descents (for me at least). I read something you'd said about lower stack heights putting you in a better position for descending as long as your arms could handle it, which got me to keep the stack nice and low as opposed to going back to my original comfort zone. So far so good.

    My life/career met a couple of T-intersections over the past 15 years which pushed me out of the machine shop/design lab and into a very different line of work, so I appreciate someone that has the time, inclination and skill to design and build their own bikes giving insight into his design process.

    Anyway, cool stuff, keep it coming.
    "So you think it's the hat?... A lot of people hate this hat. It angers a lot of people, just the sight of it." - Uncle Buck

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