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  1. #101
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    - WOOT

    -
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  2. #102
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    I'd have went all blue on the frame ... But it's your bike

    And it's looking very cool !!!

  3. #103
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    That looks really good.

  4. #104
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    Nice Fatty

    Trail that's going to be b!tchin fat!!! nice job!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL


  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    I'd have went all blue on the frame ... But it's your bike
    I'll larn yuh. Aint neer dun yet!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  6. #106
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    Sick!!

  7. #107
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    It looks awesome!!!

  8. #108
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    dang time out......
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  9. #109
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    I agree;

    I am very pleased with the theme and the look. All the detail items to come will just add to that. If it rides as good as it looks, I will be ecstatic!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  10. #110
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    Looks great What was the issue with the first PC attempt?
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  11. #111
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    Doh! Double post. Sorry about that.
    Last edited by crux; 01-26-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  12. #112
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    Bike is taking shape and looking great.

    Would be interested if there is any interference issues with the wide seat stays in how they join the down tube. Please follow up with a ride report.

    Again the bike looks fantastic.

  13. #113
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    Is that picture deceiving, or does it look like the Nate is rubbing the seat stays?
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  14. #114
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    Wowsers! Looks awesome.

    I almost liked it better raw, but I'm weird like that.

    Can't wait ti see it fully rideable, and dirty...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  15. #115
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    Ha;

    There is a little bit of "personality" in the spacing of the rear stays, but no, it does not rub anywhere. There is actually about 8-10mm of clearance at the SSs. One CS is a little close at the bridge, but I have to check the DO slots for excess PC yet.

    Excess PC because the blue was done twice. Originally I wanted it 2-toned like this, but the tape they use that withstands the heat does not bend, so it would have to be straight lines as it is now when I wanted the cut line parallel across both tubes. My instinct told me to let it go and spray the white afterwards, until they suggested a fade. "We do it all the time." "Sounds great!" It weren't.

    They did not control the travel of the fade at all; one side being on the DT only, the other being way back on the SS. I was not pleased, and so we settled on this method of solving it. Then, the taped white tracked up from the re-heat, so there are marks in the white powder. Look close and it is a bit disappointing. Put away the microscope and it looks stunning. It's a great five-footer!

    The thing that really annoys me is that in talking to the powder guy he said he does it on MC frames all the time and it works great. For some strange reason, he hung my frame vertical instead of horizontal, so the powder mist had to cross the frame on one side as it headed for the fan. Why in he!! they did it in a way other than that which they knew to work is beyond me. 50-75% of the difficulty in any spray job on a part like this is in how you jig it, and they SHOULD be good at that by now, because weird stuff is all they do! The fact that they did not charge me for the redo does not settle all of that, or the "extra weight" of two coatings, but it is what it is.

    Would be interested if there is any interference issues with the wide seat stays in how they join the down tube
    Not sure what you mean. Remember we have a 100mm (3.94") BB spacing here, and the bullets area is only a combined 3" wide, and well forward of any foot travel. For the same reason, where they are widest should not present any problem either, based on riding and studying my other Fatty.

    Assembly begins during the week ahead!
    Last edited by TrailMaker; 01-27-2013 at 12:20 PM.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  16. #116
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    You will never notice the rear misalignment and/or non-symmetrical stays when riding, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Ah, your first experience with a powdercoater who screws stuff up! Welcome to the club!

    -W
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
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  17. #117
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    Wow!!! I love how you tied everything in with the blue rim tape and the white rims. Sharp!

  18. #118
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    ...and a lot more tire clearance now that they are aired down from 40psi!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    ...and a lot more tire clearance now that they are aired down from 40psi!
    LOL I would hope so!

    I was running 5 psi last night.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  20. #120
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    Stunning!

    I am a sucker for that style of frame anyway, but that is a beautiful bike! Can't wait to see it built up. Where is the jaw drop emoticon?

    frog

  21. #121
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    I agree man, it looks great. It's always interesting to watch you go through your process, and we almost always learn something from it while watching.

  22. #122
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    Ha!

    Thanks again Folks. FB; That is quite gracious of you. No one is learning more than I am!

    The build began very slightly on Sunday as I gooped the inside of the frame (3M Rust Fighter spray) and did the headset and fork. Today saw the 3M paint protection film I always use installed on the stays to keep them shiny and spiff. The BB, cranks, and FD went on, along with cassette, rotors, adapters, and calipers set floating awaiting custom hoses. Once the bars go on things will really get going.

    Might be able to take it out for a shakedown this weekend... if I calculated everything right and didn't forget anything!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  23. #123
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    I demand a fully photo shoot ... And the girl better not detract from the bike

  24. #124
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    Utterly Fabulous job - can't wait to see it finished.

    They hung my last PC job vertical and managed to get huge drips from every downward facing part :-( then packaged it up completely oblivious to the mess they made - and that was from a company calling itself "Superior Powdercoating"

  25. #125
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    Fortunately;

    The PC is not a mess, just not as nice as it should be. Hopefully it does not chip off
    easily, being so thick.

    First pedal strokes under power today. I goofed on my first frame and the HT that was
    supposed to be 70* ended up being somewhere around 71.5*. First impressions of this
    bike are, WOW, it steers much nicer! Even with the heavy and grabby Nate tire, the
    steering seemed very neutral compared to the very heavy self steer on the Humvee.
    Absolutely no foot-to-SS clearance issues at all. Not even close, really. So far; perfect!

    I did not know how to bleed the Stroker Trails, so the system is dry. I only fingered the
    brake lever once during my test creep! Not NEARLY enough cable in those custom
    Jagwire kits for this bike, so I have to order more white housing to finish the FD. Trying to
    decide between white Crud Catchers that will contrast (will it look busy?) or black that will
    quite possibly disappear visually, keeping the look cleaner. There's certainly no shortage
    of visual hooks already!

    Tease;



    -
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  26. #126
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    Nearly There...













    Just a few details left to go. I've got enough of it together for a shakedown ride, although I may regret not having the FD hooked up if I get into any hilly stuff. Only marginally successful ghetto bleed on the brakes so far, as I don't have the kit for the Stroker series. After 50 degrees and lots of rain yesterday, and now back to upper 20s, with any luck it will stay cold and freeze up so I don't have to get it plastered with mud. Not quite ready for that yet. Not before I get the fenders anyway.

    Coming soon to a trail near me!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  27. #127
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    Beautius! Classic coloring! Came together really nicely and you can just see the effort that went into that whole entire build. Congrats and shoot out a ride report if you get out! I hope it's never that clean again.

    PS- love the Thudbuster, truly. Those saved my back for years.

  28. #128
    WIGGLER
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    WOW Just WOW nice job!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL


  29. #129
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    Simply SUPERBE.

    In the pictures, it looks very balanced in its proportions and I know you are a big guy, so making it look 'smaller' than it really is, is a BIG achievement. If I were to stand by it in real time....this is a very big bike, so well done. It simply looks 'Right'.

    Love the seat post.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  30. #130
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    TM,
    That thing is sick in the best way imaginable ... Very inspirational

  31. #131
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    wish it had more attitude:)

    what a nice job fabricating such a sweet thing!
    Great colors, great lines, I want one!!!
    cheers
    andy walker

  32. #132
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    Just an incredible effort. Whatever it takes, you've got it, man! This bike should be at NAHBS this year.

  33. #133
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    1st Ride - What an F'n DISASTER!

    Hey;

    The bike rides great, what little I was able to ride it. I was a little surprised that the self steer that was not evident at all even on pavement became noticeable on the trail at speed. Still, it is nothing that cannot be dealt with, and I suppose is somewhat endemic of the large tires. All was well with the world!

    I've spent 7 blissful years riding bikes WITHOUT flimsy replaceable derailleur hangers. My Heckler, RIP9, and Humvee have solid mount DOs, the first two of the three replaceable, and I've grown to love them. In that time, I've only had ONE problem with a derailleur; I somehow rode over and flipped a 6" piece of stick into the jockey wheels and sheared the mount bolt clean off on my RIP9 on it's 4th ride. I got a junk derailleur from the LBS, scarfed the pivot bolt for a repair, and ride that same derailleur today. That one headache has been more than made up for by the utter LACK of constant shifting problems I've had on bikes with replaceable hangers that bend every time you look at them funny.

    One of the things I was very ambivalent about was using these Paragon low mount DOs, ONLY for the fact that they use alloy RD hangers. It took exactly ONE RIDE to make me HATE that decision. They are beautiful DOs, but... He!!, it was my fault. I've gotten spoiled by the durability of having a solid mount. It wasn't 2 miles into this maiden voyage when a branch went into the chain and SNAP. Just like glass. Didn't even have time to stop. POS! I still don't believe what happened next.

    So, I did what any hard-nosed survivalist MTBer would do. I picked a gear, shortened the (brand new!) chain, and rode single speed. I don't have the FD hooked up yet due to a lack of cable housing. I reasoned I didn't want to go too big for the climbs, but I was sort of dissing my gear choice, as Granny 3 was a little short for cruising the flats. Never in a million years would it have occurred to me that what was about to happen would happen. It just seems so improbable.

    Every time I've done one of these bodges for friends that have trashed their derailleurs, they usually end up either skipping horribly under power due to lack of chain wrap, or shifting their way down the cassette because there is nothing to keep gravity from letting the chain do just that. I actually had to take the wheel out a bit to get the chain on, and when it was all installed, I had less than 1" of chain deflection, likely closer to .5" It looked like a great setup, and worked just fine for about a mile along the river bottom.

    Eventually you have to climb, and as I laid in the first few power strokes and hit the meat of the climb, the chain incongruously shifted from 3rd to 2nd. Something had to give, and it sure a F did.....







    Never in a million years would I have guessed that this was probable, or "even possible." I still don't believe it. Guess that's what I get for building something so pretty.....................
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  34. #134
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    Did you spring for the 7075 hanger? That's what I've used twice a they are pretty beefy for a replaceable hanger. I was first shocked the drop bent, but then I saw your hub! I'd place blame at whatever the actual F* happened inside it. The hub was a Salsa right? The nicer one or the cheaper one?
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  35. #135
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    Its at moments like these that I go into terminal silence - gutting.

    Fortunately, the wheel axle is replaceable and the D/O can be straightened.

    It knocks the confidence, however.

    I've had only 1 experience of this kind and it was a solid D/O that snapped with nothing getting into the chain at all, just metal fatigue....it was a long walk home.

    Condolences

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  36. #136
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    Hey;

    Thanks Eric, My Friend. As Shoo said on the Fatbike forum, "a buzzkill." Indeed. Yes, the DO can be straightened, and I believe that is the extent of the frame damage. The skewer can be straightened. The axle can be replaced. Don't know about the freehub or anything else yet. I was too stunned to really get into it.

    Am I wrong in thinking that it is HIGHLY unlikely for a chain to climb like that when it is essentially "too tight to do so?" Obviously something bounced it enough that it caught a ramp or something. There had been NO rattling of the chain trying to climb prior to that whatsoever. Just like there was only one cog there.

    G; Yes, it was the 7075 hanger. I thought it was really flimsy when I put it on the other day. It snapped like glass. How funny that I was going to make a spare out of steel... some day. I likely already would have if I had a 10mm x 1.0 tap! I don't know what hub it is. I believe I remember right that it is a Salsa, but I wouldn't have a clue beyond that. I was not even aware there were two models. I'll be curious to see if it is a steel or Al axle, though.

    I don't think there was any problem with the hub itself that caused this. It is my belief that the chain simply climbed the cassette. I had it on 3 and it is sitting jammed onto 2 right now. No way to get it off by hand. It's that tight. Since the chain was then too short for the circumference of that gear pair, something had to give. Would I be wrong in now having the feeling that these DOs are a bit fragile, or is that unfair?

    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  37. #137
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    TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer

    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Hey;

    Thanks Eric, My Friend. As Shoo said on the Fatbike forum, "a buzzkill." Indeed. Yes, the DO can be straightened, and I believe that is the extent of the frame damage. The skewer can be straightened. The axle can be replaced. Don't know about the freehub or anything else yet. I was too stunned to really get into it.

    Am I wrong in thinking that it is HIGHLY unlikely for a chain to climb like that when it is essentially "too tight to do so?" Obviously something bounced it enough that it caught a ramp or something. There had been NO rattling of the chain trying to climb prior to that whatsoever. Just like there was only one cog there.

    G; Yes, it was the 7075 hanger. I thought it was really flimsy when I put it on the other day. It snapped like glass. How funny that I was going to make a spare out of steel... some day. I likely already would have if I had a 10mm x 1.0 tap! I don't know what hub it is. I believe I remember right that it is a Salsa, but I wouldn't have a clue beyond that. I was not even aware there were two models. I'll be curious to see if it is a steel or Al axle, though.

    I don't think there was any problem with the hub itself that caused this. It is my belief that the chain simply climbed the cassette. I had it on 3 and it is sitting jammed onto 2 right now. No way to get it off by hand. It's that tight. Since the chain was then too short for the circumference of that gear pair, something had to give. Would I be wrong in now having the feeling that these DOs are a bit fragile, or is that unfair?

    Sorry to see that happen. I hate replaceable hangers, too.

    The cogs are designed to shift, and they are close together. When you SS it the chainline needs to be perfectly straight for it to have any chance to work. Any bounce or flex can screw you.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Any bounce or flex can screw you.
    It Did!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  39. #139
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    Aw man ... That sucks !!!

    I still dig your design ... Beautiful lines.

    Hopefully this is just a small growing pain.

  40. #140
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Plate dropouts suck!

    Plate drops are much more likely to bend vs. hooded style. The low mount chainstay style ones look wimpy and seem like a bad approach vs. alternatives.

    I am pretty sure you can repair it as is but if you replace go with a hooded dropout.

    Hooded drops are a lot stronger and stiffer.

    IMHO The future of mountain bikes is 142x12 through axle. The new Paragon hooded through axle drops look super bomber.

    It's a setback but I am sure that at some point in the future you will look back and laugh about it.
    Last edited by febikes; 02-04-2013 at 06:15 AM.

  41. #141
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    Trailmaker: my heart is breaking for you. What a painful (but valuable) learning experience. Be vigilant about keeping the right attitude, and you will grow from this. I know you've got what it takes.

  42. #142
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    TM,

    My sympathies to you and your injured blue friend. I have been watching this bike come together the last few weeks, and am amazed by it. It is unfortunate that such a thing would happen, but you can take comfort in that the steel frame can be repaired and made stronger.

    -Weston

  43. #143
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    TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer

    TM-
    Wow, CR@P!!
    That's a complete nightmare. I cannot imagine the frustration...

    I think Shiggy's on the mark, I wouldn't blame the dropouts. They've been tested well. Something had to give!

    But for replaceable hangers, that one did what it was supposed to do, break under too much stress. Something else would've snapped had not the hanger (like the derailleur). Cheaper to replace the der! You can always swap the AL hanger for their steel one --
    DR2061. It's seriously beefy and I doubt it can actually break.

    Best of luck with the repair, it deserves to be back out there on the trail!

    Cheers,
    Whit

  44. #144
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    TM, My sympathies to you and your injured blue friend. I have been watching this bike come together the last few weeks, and am amazed by it. It is unfortunate that such a thing would happen, but you can take comfort in that the steel frame can be repaired and made stronger.
    Weston ;

    Thank you Sir. Very gracious of you. I too am amazed by it. I am not a stranger to creating varied things in many differing mediums that people think are in one way or another compelling, and yet this one has even me in awe. I sort of feel odd when I think about riding it in the woods. It is just sooo not a woodsy looking machine. It just SCREAMS, "look at me" like a buxom bobby-soxer cheerleader in a tight cashmere sweater. Still, it is what I wanted it to be, and more. I'm glad you and others have appreciated it along with me. Beyond the notoriety - which all artists enjoy to some extent - and your own internal satisfaction, knowing that others derive pleasure from what you create is very rewarding!

    I'm glad you felt compelled to come out for Post #2!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  45. #145
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    Hey;

    No real diss to the DO. They are really a work of art, and fit tremendously well with this theme, I think. Retro-technical looking. Now, if you hold one of these in your hand, and you are used to looking at things through the prism of being 240lbs, you can't think anything but that these might be just a little under sized. I think they could stand a mm or two more thickness, personally.

    They certainly are not designed to take the kind of force they saw here. Neither was the aluminum axle that snapped off just as easily as the flimsy hanger did. When you consider the force it would take to snap a brand new chain in tension (many hundreds of pounds, no doubt), and consider that this did not happen, then it is no real surprise that other things gave. They had to. I would add that aluminum axle to a list of things that really need to be strengthened a bit. When you consider the pounding they must take, and look at how thin they are, it is really no surprise that this happened. It is likely time for the 12mm T/A size to take hold as the standard for everything.

    I'm thinking the steel axle looks much better to me as a replacement... for the next time I tear my RD off and try single speeding!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer-kroozerbuggeredaxle1.jpg  

    TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer-kroozerbuggeredaxle2.jpg  

    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  46. #146
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    Oh;

    Frame repaired. Dummy axle slips right in, no problem. Very minimal loss of paint. Happened to have some paint on the shelf that was a dead ringer. A Porsche color, no less. A couple of little dabs will do me. Now the old story.... waiting for parts!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  47. #147
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    With all this bad luck you can probably expect no problems at all when you rebuild it, the frame has probably ran out of bad luck by now.

    Anyway 70-series breaks and 60 series alu, like 6061 bends. Ti would be a nice alternative, since it bends quite a lot until it snaps clean, But it flexes back. CP2 ti is quite weak, about on par with good alu, but much more durable, and if it bends you can probably bend it back. Its much more forgiving than 6-4 or even 3-2,5, those ones snaps/cracks. In an hour or so you could easily anglegrind and file out a new cp2 ti hanger.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  48. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
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    May 2007
    Posts
    2,186
    That's great to hear....hope you get back on it soon!
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  49. #149
    RCP Fabrication
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    389
    As sweet as the windowed ones are, I have yet to build a frame with them. When I do low mounts, I opt for the expidetion ones. Yeah, they are heavier, but unless I was doing a disc specific road bike, I wouldnt use the windowed ones.



    Good luck with the repairs!

    Ryan

  50. #150
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,108
    Sorry to see the damage. Glad to hear the frame is repaired. Hopefully the replacement axle will be solid and no more issues.

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