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  1. #26
    650b me
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    Regarding "demand": to my knowledge, a 34/44 taper HT is not currently commercially available. But that doesn't mean there is no demand. I'd put one in my shopping cart right now if I could find one on the web. Could be an opportunity to capture the marketplace.

    Anyone...please let me know if I'm wrong and this part is commercially available. I seriously want to use this on my next frame.

  2. #27
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    I would like to use one as well. Salsa has a tapered head tube and I think it looks a lot better than having what looks like a Foster's can glommed onto the front of the bike

  3. #28
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    I would like to ask this question.

    Advantages? To my knowledge both 34/44 pressfit headsets use the same size bearing. Mitering the downtube becomes more complex.

    So what advantage is there? Is there a structural reason? or is this an aesthectic only kind of thing?

    I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but really trying hard to see a benefit, as I don't see 44mm straight or 34mm failing.

    It would make sense to me if the lower bearing itself were larger, but I am only seeing this from a press fit headset perspective rather than the integrated one.

    Can anyone expand on this thought?

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  4. #29
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    I see no structural benefits either, but I prefer to make frames that look good to me. Yes, it would be harder. I don't think I will ever build a frame for an integrated headset, so that's not a concern

  5. #30
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    wasnt it a guy who said lets use a big press in cup and a smaller press in cup then went to fox or cane creek who invented it ,cant remember but i recall reading it posted on here as a press release by one of them

    Deddacciai also make these and still have them stock on the shelf or did last time they wanted about 70 euro each or 50 euro if you ordered 10

    there is a weight advantage over a full 44 tube

    ps klein beat everyone to it about 17 years ago iirc the patent expired and e2 appeared call me cynical

  6. #31
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    ^^^I think you're thinking about a guy who figured out that the pressfit 44 heat tube size was big enough to do a 1.5" tapered if you used an external cup. I wondered why they never made a external cup 44m for the top cup for a straight 1.5 but then straight 1.5" steerers pretty much died up so I guess they read the tea leaves correctly.

  7. #32
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    Sean Chaney

    Our own Mr. Vertigo is responsible. Then he and I annoyed the hell out of Cane Creek, King, Paragon, and True Temper to get to where we are today.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes View Post
    ^^^I think you're thinking about a guy who figured out that the pressfit 44 heat tube size was big enough to do a 1.5" tapered if you used an external cup. I wondered why they never made a external cup 44m for the top cup for a straight 1.5 but then straight 1.5" steerers pretty much died up so I guess they read the tea leaves correctly.
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
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  8. #33
    650b me
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    It's all about the aesthetics for me. With this HT I can run a tapered steerer without the "Foster's" look, as Unterhausen put it. A straight 44mm HT looks out of proportion when joined to skinny steel tubes. I have an industrial design degree so I can't help but consider aesthetics when designing...anything.

    I think part of being a custom framebuilder is about going the extra mile and differentiating yourself from the mass producers.

    Call me weird, but I'd also enjoy the challenge of the complex miters necessitated by this design.

  9. #34
    Nemophilist
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    Of course you are weird;

    Now that we have established that, keep up the good work!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  10. #35
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    It looks normal to me now

    After ~50 bikes using the straight 44mm head tube, it no longer looks weird. In fact 1 1/8 head tubes look really tiny and odd to me now. Go figure. I can see how if you do mostly 1 1/8 (I'd say 75% of my frames are for taper these days) it would look odd the other way.

    I try to differentiate myself with spot-on geometry and design rather than trying to make things look neat, because most of my customers seem to be 5k mile/year type psychos who couldn't care less what their bike looks like. If your customer base is more interested in a particular look that might be more of a selling point, I guess.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    It's all about the aesthetics for me. With this HT I can run a tapered steerer without the "Foster's" look, as Unterhausen put it. A straight 44mm HT looks out of proportion when joined to skinny steel tubes. I have an industrial design degree so I can't help but consider aesthetics when designing...anything.

    I think part of being a custom framebuilder is about going the extra mile and differentiating yourself from the mass producers.

    Call me weird, but I'd also enjoy the challenge of the complex miters necessitated by this design.
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  11. #36
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    Walt, I respect your commitment to function first and foremost. I really do. Personalized fit and feel should be the #1 goal for a custom performance-oriented bike. Aesthetic flourishes are just icing on the cake, really. You are right....people look for different things in a bike. I know plenty of riders that don't care much what their bike looks like, as long as they can ride the $hit out of it.

  12. #37
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    i really like the look of thin tubed steel, run off the mill bikes from back in 90-93ish so I kinda like the regular 1 1/8 look. but i'm posting here merely as a "consumer" as of now, planning to get a tig welder soon though. But purely estethically I really like how it looked back in the day, I would only have made the bikes an inch longer for a given size or so like it is today.

    I'll be quiet now.

    carry on.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Specialized sucks ass.

  13. #38
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    I was at the bike shop today and straight 44mm tubes are starting to look normal to me too. I really think it depends on the fork though. A full suspension fork in a 35mm head tube is starting to look spindly. I saw a road bike with a unicrown fork and a 44mm head tube and it really looked ridiculous

  14. #39
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    I hear what you are saying about just committing to it, but it's just not a high enough priority for us to take that much of a risk on it. It took a long time for the other tubes to get noticed and has taken a good while to sell what was a fairly small batch.

    The thicker wall at the bottom is a consequence of the process. I'm trying to get it 1.2mm constant

    44mm does use a bigger bearing, it is external rather than internal

    Although my preference is for a tapered tube, it's not a big enough concern that I'm going to take a risk with it. If it doesn't go ahead, I will be happy enough using a straight 44mm tube.

  15. #40
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    Ok, bit of an update. I've been pushed slightly with this so am looking at numbers again. Some people who have expressed interest will have just recieved an email, if you haven't and would like to then email me (matt@18bikes.co.uk).

    Here is the basic rundown though:

    44mm ID lower with 20mm insertion
    100mm taper
    remainder of 200mm tube at 34mm ID
    1mm wall thickness
    Reynolds 631

    Price is looking similar to a 150/170mm paragon 44mm headtube depending on how many you want.

    Matt

  16. #41
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    I don't think these specs work for me. If I leave only 10mm @ 34mm ID, that means my minimum tube length is 130mm? And 1mm wall thickness seems a bit thin.

  17. #42
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    There has been a development which should make this happen with availability for smaller orders with no pre-orders. I'm working through it at the moment and hope to have news soon. I will keep this thread updated as and when I work things out.

    The design has already been changed and will likely be 1.25mm wall, 40mm parallel at the bottom, 85mm of taper then parallel to a total length of 200mm. This should make the tube a virtually universal fit for everything from 100mm to 200mm.

    Matt

  18. #43
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    OK, now we're getting somewhere! These specs I can live with.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18bikes View Post
    The design has already been changed and will likely be 1.25mm wall, 40mm parallel at the bottom, 85mm of taper then parallel to a total length of 200mm. This should make the tube a virtually universal fit for everything from 100mm to 200mm.
    I guess I don't actually know how deep my headset cup or reamer actually is, but I would think (100mm-85mm)/2 = 7.5mm would be on the short side?

  20. #45
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    Sorry, yeah that was a typo, should be 75mm. I was thinking roughly 15mm lower/10mm upper or 12.5mm each. Obviously you can add a few mm to get more insert if needed

  21. #46
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    Check.

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