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  1. #1
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    Steel or Ti for this MonsterCross?

    Some time ago I have in mind a project for build my "all use"/"ideal" bike. I like very much the Ti but...

    It is possible a Ti frame with enought clearance for Bonty XR1 (1.9) or at least Jones XR (1.8), road compact crankset (2x10) and short chainstay length (425-430 mm)?

    More info: seat angle 73, head angle 72, no suspension corrected rigid fork, BB7 disc brakes and MTB rear hub (135 mm).

  2. #2
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    You'll definitely need a MTB 2x9 crankset. The next thing to worry about is the chainstays. How will you be bending and manipulating the Ti stays?

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  3. #3
    pvd
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    Steel 'cause it's the cheapest. Save TI for the real bikes.

  4. #4
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    You'll just have to draw everything out that you want. You can calculate the angles of your needed bends and see how much room you have b/w the tire and the inner chain ring (+clearance for each). Then you can decide if you can manipulate the drive side chainstay to achieve your goals (i.e. dimpling), or if you will need to go with a plate. Recently Vertigo Cycles did a nice AM 29er with a plate that was either posted on this board and/or the 29er board. You can do the same stuff with Ti as you can with steel; the only difference is more $ and can be more difficult to manipulate. Since the "jack of all trades" style bikes are often dissapointing (they excel at nothing) I'd vote steel to save some coin.
    Too many bikes, not enough time.

  5. #5
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    You'd need plates at the BB if you want to run road cranks.

    Quickly drawing it all out will show you instantly what you'll have clearance for.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the comments. This pic show my La Cruz with Bonty Jones XR.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/netanimic/4964480799/

    I think that is possible (with steel, not titanium) increase the clearance for the tire without problems with the road cranks. And maybe use short chainstays (425 mm). The La Cruz chainstay are 430 mm.

    Now the question is: Reynolds 953 or Columbus XCr? (I live near the sea and need corrosion resistance)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    Now the question is: Reynolds 953 or Columbus XCr? (I live near the sea and need corrosion resistance)
    Is this something you will be building yourself?

  8. #8
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    XCR offroad proper? Not a wise move.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-ro
    Is this something you will be building yourself?
    Nop, I am looking for a solution about the material of my ideal frame. Later, with the material, I will need a framebuilder for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    XCR offroad proper? Not a wise move.
    You are the master. What is an adecuate material?

  10. #10
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    My advice would be to pick a builder you think can build what you're after, then put your trust in them to design exactly the frame you want.

    Your average bike designer doesn't really like being told how to design something or what tubes he should use. He's spent the past 10+ years figuring all that out. Hopefully.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    My advice would be to pick a builder you think can build what you're after, then put your trust in them to design exactly the frame you want.

    Your average bike designer doesn't really like being told how to design something or what tubes he should use. He's spent the past 10+ years figuring all that out. Hopefully.
    You are right!

    I need know what is the best material for my frame and then pick the best framebuilder with that material.

    You don't recomended me the XCr, but ¿what about 953? or ¿I have to go back to the Ti?

  12. #12
    Who turned out the lights
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    If you truly need corrosion resistance, go ti. It's no more expensive really than the 953, and your builder will have a wider tubing selection.

    There are a lot of builders in California that live near the ocean and build out of steel.

    On second thought, why not consider aluminum? Rock Lobster or Ahrens have nice yokes (made by Ahrens) that might fit your bill.

  13. #13
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    So you're giving us very little information about you, the type of bike you want, and its intended purpose, and you're asking a bunch of strangers to recommend the best frame material for your dream frame instead of relying on a frame builder you've established a relationship with?
    May the air be filled with tires!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    So you're giving us very little information about you, the type of bike you want, and its intended purpose, and you're asking a bunch of strangers to recommend the best frame material for your dream frame instead of relying on a frame builder you've established a relationship with?
    Maybe, but I asked for:

    "It is possible a Ti frame with enought clearance for Bonty XR1 (1.9) or at least Jones XR (1.8), road compact crankset (2x10) and short chainstay length (425-430 mm)?

    More info: seat angle 73, head angle 72, no suspension corrected rigid fork, BB7 disc brakes and MTB rear hub (135 mm)."

    This is not a road bike, It is between 29er and CX bike. I am 5' 10" and 200 lbs.

    I think that the problem is know if is possible handling the material of frame to do this. Personally I doubt about the Ti, but I needed ask here to the experts.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    Maybe, but I asked for:

    "It is possible a Ti frame with enought clearance for Bonty XR1 (1.9) or at least Jones XR (1.8), road compact crankset (2x10) and short chainstay length (425-430 mm)?

    More info: seat angle 73, head angle 72, no suspension corrected rigid fork, BB7 disc brakes and MTB rear hub (135 mm)."

    This is not a road bike, It is between 29er and CX bike. I am 5' 10" and 200 lbs.

    I think that the problem is know if is possible handling the material of frame to do this. Personally I doubt about the Ti, but I needed ask here to the experts.
    Sounds like it will be a hoot to ride if you get it built. I think the only real issue is if a full yoke will work at the chainstay/ bb joint. You may have to give up on the road crank.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    Maybe, but I asked for:

    "It is possible a Ti frame with enought clearance for Bonty XR1 (1.9) or at least Jones XR (1.8), road compact crankset (2x10) and short chainstay length (425-430 mm)?

    More info: seat angle 73, head angle 72, no suspension corrected rigid fork, BB7 disc brakes and MTB rear hub (135 mm)."

    This is not a road bike, It is between 29er and CX bike. I am 5' 10" and 200 lbs.

    I think that the problem is know if is possible handling the material of frame to do this. Personally I doubt about the Ti, but I needed ask here to the experts.
    Mate, it's really just a matter of drawing everything up and seeing what sort of clearances you can get. I'd say you could get a 40c tyre with road cranks with some sort of drive-side yoke, but I'd have to draw it up.

    Unfortunately for you, I get paid to do that.

    Pick a designer-builder......and go with them.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Mate, it's really just a matter of drawing everything up and seeing what sort of clearances you can get. I'd say you could get a 40c tyre with road cranks with some sort of drive-side yoke, but I'd have to draw it up.

    Unfortunately for you, I get paid to do that.

    Pick a designer-builder......and go with them.
    My cheap La Cruz have more clearance!

    Definetively is a matter of handling material. It is necessary flatten chainstays.

    I was seen your gallery and look like you always use round chainstays = poor clearance and long chainsta. Sorry, but you can't do my frame.

  18. #18
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    Umm......no.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Steel or Ti for this MonsterCross?-4617792155_bc5c648b9d_z.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    Maybe, but I asked for:

    "It is possible a Ti frame with enought clearance for Bonty XR1 (1.9) or at least Jones XR (1.8), road compact crankset (2x10) and short chainstay length (425-430 mm)?

    More info: seat angle 73, head angle 72, no suspension corrected rigid fork, BB7 disc brakes and MTB rear hub (135 mm)."

    This is not a road bike, It is between 29er and CX bike. I am 5' 10" and 200 lbs.

    I think that the problem is know if is possible handling the material of frame to do this. Personally I doubt about the Ti, but I needed ask here to the experts.
    Save yourself a ton of work and money and just buy a salsa vaya or fargo.
    Seriously. The vaya won't clear a 1.9 but you can run 42c all day long, and that is honestly enough tire for anything short of real mountain biking.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    My cheap La Cruz have more clearance!

    Definetively is a matter of handling material. It is necessary flatten chainstays.

    I was seen your gallery and look like you always use round chainstays = poor clearance and long chainsta. Sorry, but you can't do my frame.
    From what I've read on the internet, Thylacine is a top notch frame builder. I don't doubt for a second, that he could build exactly what you want, assuming it's possible. He has a lot of tools and skills at his disposal, probably more than many frame builders, and he builds some pretty non standard frames. I think you've prejudged him poorly.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by netanimic
    My cheap La Cruz have more clearance!

    Definetively is a matter of handling material. It is necessary flatten chainstays.

    I was seen your gallery and look like you always use round chainstays = poor clearance and long chainsta. Sorry, but you can't do my frame.
    No offense, but you don't have to be a jerk to a respected builder because you don't like his answer. I'd recommend you give some thought to his advice. Find a builder who's vibe you dig, identify your needs and requirements, and see what he recommends and can spec for you. Both materials can do most of what you ask, but have different pluses and minuses, depending on your checkbook.
    - Cody

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