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  1. #26
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    What I think Steve meant....

    ...is that 853 is a dumb material to make seat tubes from.

    Coconino-style sleeving FTW! I probably spend <1 minute per frame on reaming and I've had the same $30 adjustable reamer for >400 frames now.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by shandcycles View Post
    Every day. It sucks. Flexhone to remove the rough edges. Adjustable (cheap) reamer slightly undersize to get as much material out of the way for the precision ground 27.2 reamer to do the job. Finish with another blast through of the flexhone to clean up. All done with a load of cutting fluid. Horrible job.
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  2. #27
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    Yeah, I know. I was agreeing.

  3. #28
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    Sorry, I didn't quite pick that up. Must be the 3 beers. Happy new year!!!
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shandcycles View Post
    Every day. It sucks. Flexhone to remove the rough edges. Adjustable (cheap) reamer slightly undersize to get as much material out of the way for the precision ground 27.2 reamer to do the job. Finish with another blast through of the flexhone to clean up. All done with a load of cutting fluid. Horrible job.
    I only use their 631 seat-tubes. But now I know who is buying the 853 version !

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shandcycles View Post
    Every day. It sucks. Flexhone to remove the rough edges. Adjustable (cheap) reamer slightly undersize to get as much material out of the way for the precision ground 27.2 reamer to do the job. Finish with another blast through of the flexhone to clean up. All done with a load of cutting fluid. Horrible job.
    Why do you use them?
    Not a dig, just asking.

    I saw ALLOT of Gunnars and the old Lemonds with split or cracked 853 HT's & ST's - damn hard stuff.
    TT's & DT's no issues i can think of.

    - Garro.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    ...is that 853 is a dumb material to make seat tubes from.

    Coconino-style sleeving FTW! I probably spend <1 minute per frame on reaming and I've had the same $30 adjustable reamer for >400 frames now.

    -Walt
    It's definately a time saver (and a tool saver) and a frame saver over time.
    Either that or the 1.25" x pressfit route.
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzy4 View Post
    But now I know who is buying the 853 version !
    I think that some mid sized MTB manufaturer must have spec'ed those tubes for a bike run - I don't think anyone at Reynolds is designing this just to look out for the small guy.

    I'm pretty sure we don't have enough collective buying power for manufactures to put much into shiny lures to dangle out for us to see if we bite.

    I have a pretty good idea who it is as they have been asking me advice on steel & 29ers and are from the UK........

    At least Pacenti would have come up with some useful tubes, I wish HJ would get someone on the design side for some real 2013 offerings.

    I like how it's worded in the letters how they are here to help us by increasing our COGS by 75% per bike.
    That's not really helping me out & I've been really putting effort into singing True Temper's praises for years.

    I wonder what went down, as Nathan was transfered out of bike tubing, and then they had Patrick, he was gung-ho, let's ****ing sell tubes, buy a case & it's golden, who but pros buy cases?
    Next, patrick has been "let go" and Nathan is back, not sounding super stoked about it, HJ's has all sales, and Pacenti is blowing out all TT tubing.

    FWIW they said they wil still draw straight gage for me, I have to get 300' at a time.......

    I haven't heard of anyone piecing out cases, as we did not want to collectively kill our golden goose.

    I am seriously looking for other venues for butted tubing other then TT at this time, but man, I sure like Supertherm DT's.
    Maybe not for 4x what I paid for them, however.

    So...............who's going to raise their prices to reflect this?

    Will we have True Temper tubing in two years?

    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconinocycles View Post
    Why do you use them?

    - Garro.
    Honestly? It's as much a marketing issue for us as anything else. We have 3 production frames with 853 tubing and we make big deal out of it. I think it's great tubing, always very close to spec, tons of tube profiles for us to choose from and it has a good 'story'. I love the externally butted seattubes. The 30mm top section works great with our tapered (28 > 32) top tubes.

    It's *very* hard on tools. Yes, it takes a bit more effort/time/money to work with but we're trying to build the best bikes we can. I'm pretty sure if I built with a similar 631 tube, it would be difficult to tell the difference. But I could say the same about the dropouts we use, the braze-ons, the paint etc. I'm not in this to cut corners and make things easy. Also, we charge appropriately. The reaming operation probably takes 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes and we probably spend a bit more on tooling because of it, but in the grand scheme of things, I think that's fine.

    I think about this stuff a lot!! What I always come back to is : 'how can I explain this decision to the customer?'. Other than telling the customer that 853 seattubes are a pia to finish, I'm not sure what else I could say. And that's not information I want the customer to have to think about when trying to make a buying decision. Problems reaming a seattube are our problems, not theirs.

    Sorry, that rambled on a bit! Executive summary is that I like 'em even though they're hard on tools.

    (should also say I've had no issues with broken/cracked tubes, where have you seen them damaged?)

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_ntwr View Post
    This is crazy. I like HJ, buy stuff from them, and have adapted to doing business "their way" because that's the way it goes. But if I were this Nathan Hill, I'd at least have them put some time into their website and have some mechanism for online ordering if I were going to make them exclusive.
    I talked to Hank today and he's given out a contract to produce a new website with a store but he's not sure on the completion date.

    -Joel
    NOTHING WORKS LIKE CLOCKWORK

    www.clockworkbikes.com

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clockwork Bikes View Post
    I talked to Hank today and he's given out a contract to produce a new website with a store but he's not sure on the completion date.
    Good for them;

    It is a "necessary evil" these days. They will see a sales increase from it, no question. I'm sure there have been a lot of hobby type builders "scared away" by their current model, myself included. With a good e-commerce site, a certain percentage of sales will take care of itself with little effort expended. A lot of that will probably be new and/or impulse sales besides.

    I wish them well with it. I predict they will soon wonder why they waited so long!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  11. #36
    J_K
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    There are no bent seattubes available yet or in the near future.
    However they have started the developement and I think they're open for the IDs and ODs.
    Last edited by J_K; 01-04-2013 at 04:09 AM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clockwork Bikes View Post
    I talked to Hank today and he's given out a contract to produce a new website with a store but he's not sure on the completion date.

    -Joel
    That's great news! I'm looking forward to being able to purchase directly from HJ. Maybe this Nathan guy has it together after all. Whatever the case, this is going to be good for anyone that doesn't buy tubing by the case. Sorry, Walt, looks like you got the short end of this but it's great for guys like me.

    Now if we can just get Joe to add a site Just kidding, I would miss talking with Joe.

  13. #38
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    Problems reaming a seattube are our problems, not theirs.
    Amen!

  14. #39
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    Apologies for digging up an old post but did anyone ever see any of the bent seattubes Reynolds announced?

  15. #40
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    No, fairing never had them available for sale that I saw.

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