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Thread: My first frame

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatniqwood09 View Post
    They were designed that way and the HT was left long so a had a little wiggle room for error and brazing. It will most likely be lopped off after the brazing is done. Are there any potential issues having them that close?
    The more spread you can provide between the DT and TT joint the better. Having them join the head tube at the same place is a bad idea because it will make a weaker joint. What you want is two independent joints so the head tube will be well supported and not prone to catastrophic failure..
    Mark Farnsworth, Raleigh, NC
    http://farnsworthbikes.com

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by adarn View Post
    Remember that if you're cutting HT off of the bottom, you are lowering your front end.

    Also, before you take any off the bottom, so a test fit or mock-up with your headset lower cup and Reb fork to make sure there is no risk of contact between the fork adjusters and down tube.

  3. #28
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    Everything was placed around the bottom of the HT so I definitely wont be taking any off the bottom

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by febikes View Post
    The more spread you can provide between the DT and TT joint the better. Having them join the head tube at the same place is a bad idea because it will make a weaker joint. What you want is two independent joints so the head tube will be well supported and not prone to catastrophic failure..
    Indeed;

    This was my concern, and the reason I questioned it. You should think of the fork, and by extension the HT, as a lever arm. Under braking, that is exactly what it is. The farther apart the TT/DT are on the HT, the less focused and localized the force will be. If you think of the junction of the TT/DT as the fulcrum of a teeter totter, the closer they are to each other, the easier the teeter will totter. The farther apart they are, the harder it is to get it to tip over either way because the load is spread wide. With teeter totters, you like the fulcrum narrow. With HT junctions, not so much.

    I'm not saying it will be a problem for you, but it is something you should at least consider. My Clydesdale HTs at 7" long give me lots of space. I could nest yours INSIDE of mine!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  5. #30
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    I think one or two spacers is fine, but a bunch on a custom frame is silly.

    conventional wisdom says the longer the HT, the easier it is on the headset bearings. However, with the HT that much higher than the TT, I'd have to think about if it's worse for frame longevity. I think the answer is that it might be worse for certain impacts in which the lower headset cup = fulcrum; wheel = load #1, upper headset cup = load #2.

    To clarify: I'm talking about the current TT/DT configuration. To eliminate the above issue, I'd do as others suggested and raise the TT. You can probably do this by simply lifting it up (looks like there's plenty on the ST) and potentially shaving just a bit off the HT/DT miter -- will only alter the TT length a tiny bit.

  6. #31
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    The super close DT/TT/HT joint doesn't really work out that great for OEM's. I'd look at either getting another TT and re-miter a fresh tube so it fits higher on the HT. Or shorten up the whole front end enough to re-miter everything so you can have as much distance as possible between the DT/TT along the HT that your fit allows. If your fit demands a super short HT...think about not using 29in wheels.

    I've been just tinning the ST/BB and then getting a fat fillet between all once the DT is in place. If able I tack the ST/BB as step one. And tack the DT and chainstays in one sitting to reduce the number of times I bring my torch near the frame.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  7. #32
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    These are the threads anyone considering the close DT/TT approach should read - Failure analysis and Frame Failure, Be Careful

  8. #33
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    To be fair

    Compound TT/DT joints can be done safely (ie, fully join the DT, clean your tubes before you join them, use appropriate tubing, etc).

    If you can, a longer HT is a good thing, but lots of both production and custom builders have done compound joints at the head tube for decades. It works fine if you do a good job.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    This is the thread anyone considering the close DT/TT approach should read - Failure analysis
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  9. #34
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    Been a busy few weeks, what with exams and helping the family prepare for the holidays. Needless to say havn't had a ton of time to work on my frame. Anyway here are some updated pics of my joints(teehee).

    Oh and in regards to the HT and DT being close together. After some beer and some thinking I realized that with my 70.3 HA and 73 SA, the HT and ST get closer together the further up on them you go. So i shortened up the TT a bit and slid it up a few more MM. I think i'm just about ready to braze the front triangle.

    Cheers!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My first frame-2012-12-18_18-35-15_822.jpg  

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    My first frame-2012-12-18_18-37-49_790.jpg  

    My first frame-2012-12-18_18-38-25_871.jpg  


  10. #35
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    Your miters look very nice!
    Mark Farnsworth, Raleigh, NC
    http://farnsworthbikes.com

  11. #36
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    Just a small update, havnt had a ton of time recently. Anyway, I got around to tinning in the down tube and shortly after ran out of O2 so the brazing has been put on halt until we get more. So I started on roughing in the chainstays.
    Pictured are a tire clearance guide that i slapped together and how it stands as i left it this afternoon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My first frame-2013-01-13_14-53-14_512.jpg  

    My first frame-2013-01-16_18-59-35_883.jpg  


  12. #37
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    Uhuh...

    Startin to look like a bike!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  13. #38
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    Lookin good!

  14. #39
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    Things coming along nicely! Still need to... cut and miter the seat stays, braze the rear end, and lay fillet on head tube, plus all the small things.

    Planning on going to a friend of a friend's house to machine some faux headsets to help maintain headtube shape while i lay fillet on it. This may be unnecessary but with my novice brazing i'd rather play it safe.

    Pretty proud of what iv'e accomplished thus far and Im really excited to see it roll
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My first frame-2013-02-12_18-40-29_834.jpg  

    My first frame-2013-02-12_18-41-00_800.jpg  


  15. #40
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    Cool;

    If I might suggest, just for aesthetics, do some serious carvin' on those DOs there. They look kind of... well... agricultural!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Cool;

    If I might suggest, just for aesthetics, do some serious carvin' on those DOs there. They look kind of... well... agricultural!
    Just once, I want to see you get rude on the internet.

    Try it! I want to see if you can do it. I think you are physically unable.

    On topic: woooot, keep it up, puts my first frame to shame!
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  17. #42
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    Hmmm...

    I can be rude when it is called for, and some posts certainly compel one in that direction. I just thought I would make a suggestion that might improve the look of an already good looking bike frame... in case he had not noticed. If your goal is the largest DO-to-Stay fillet welds of all time, then OK, but otherwise there's no reason not to take the opportunity for some creative expression with that much excess steel available, if it strikes your fancy. That's why we do this, eh?

    No snark intended. Just an opinion. Make use of it as you see fit.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  18. #43
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    Wishbone

    So, its come to fitting my seatstays. the ones I got in the nova set are straight as an arrow and i have no access to a tube roller/bender of any type. Soo, what are yalls opinions on wishbone seatstays?

    Thanks

  19. #44
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    Hey;

    Do you know anyone with a bearing press?



    Some wood forms and ingenuity and you could coax a little bend into them, most likely. Are your stays round or tapered? I don't know where you are or exactly what you are looking for, but if you could provide an scale drawing and I had the right equipment for the tubing (die sizes), I'd be happy to tweak them for you. I have a draw bender and a HF roller with limited die sizes.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  20. #45
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    Looks nice, I would like to build my own frame someday. Seems like a really fun project

  21. #46
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    I've done one frame with the Nova wishbone stays. It was actually a softail, so I didn't have to miter the end of the "strut"* part to the seat tube, but I'd wager that it's world's easier than seat stay miters normally are. The ends of the wishbones came premitered. In my case, I had to open them up to make room for the larger OD shock mount, but it was pretty easy. I don't know if they're still premitered or not. I'd be surprised if not. If you don't have a notion of what size you want the strut to be, then I'd ask them what size the miter is for and then make sure you have/order the right tube to make your life easier.

    *by strut, I mean top/single part of the wishbone. I don't know if I'm using this term correctly or if there's another term.

  22. #47
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    Progress

    Made some progress this afternoon and got the chain stays and the dropouts tinned in. Going to try and get the seat stays cut and mitered in tomorrow.

    The weather is staring to warm up and I really want to finish this soon, plus Iv'e got a bunch of blingy parts lying around and some more in the mail.

    All these plus some paul hubs, stans arch ex's, and some dt swiss competitions
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My first frame-2013-03-20_21-58-46_458.jpg  

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    My first frame-2013-03-20_22-01-24_206.jpg  

    My first frame-2013-03-13_17-25-53_79.jpg  

    My first frame-2013-01-02_16-29-48_411.jpg  


  23. #48
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    Getting close;

    Only a million more details to go! Enjoy, take your time, and get it like you want it. It seems an eternity now, but it will all be over very soon and then you'll be getting the shakes wanting to build something!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  24. #49
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    Cool looks like your building this in the living room....keep on truckin!!!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Cool looks like your building this in the living room....keep on truckin!!!!!
    Haha yea, the old volvo that was on its side in the garage is now back on all fours and getting motor and tranny. As you can imagine theres $#it everywhere. So i had to relocate to the bike room.

    On another note, I did wind up just getting some new s-bend seatstays so i wont have to worry about bending them or the wishbone idea. The way i have them now they fit just fine with no extra bends

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