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  1. #1
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    Golden Boy - Frame #2

    It's cold here again, so this is a good time to start a build thread for frame #2. The frame is brazed up as of yesterday, except for the braze-ons. But I'll start from the beginning and add photos, etc. as separate posts.

    Frame #2: a 650b hardtail for my wife. I don't have liability insurance, and I'm pretty sure she won't sue me if the frame fails on her while riding. Pretty sure. Steel, fillet-brazed. Designed to accept components from frame #1, a 650b hardtail I built for myself at UBI nearly two years ago now. Frame #3 (coming in 2014) will replace frame #1 as my hardtail. I still have my Pivot Mach 4, so I'm not without a ride.

    First photos: shots of the front triangle, tacked up in the frame jig.

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7833.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7834.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7835.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7836.jpg

    All tubes were coped by hand with files.

  2. #2
    Harrumph
    Reputation: G-reg's Avatar
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    Looking good. Borrowing the Journeyman? Probably not too many #2's out there that got to play with toys like that
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  3. #3
    650b me
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    Journeyman is mine. I got an unexpected inheritance from a favorite aunt, and used part of it to buy the Journeyman.

    Hmmm, not much activity yet. Better post some more photos. Here's a couple of the front triangle right after brazing:

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7843.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-dscn7852.jpg

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    Journeyman is mine. I got an unexpected inheritance from a favorite aunt, and used part of it to buy the Journeyman.

    Hmmm, not much activity yet. Better post some more photos. Here's a couple of the front triangle right after brazing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'll bite. Keep 'em coming.

  5. #5
    650b me
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    Frame is coming along...took some more photos today.

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-bb-filed-3.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-dropouts-filed-1.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-h20-bosses-1.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-ss-open-end-2.jpg

    I'm thinking about leaving the seat stays open at the seat tube junction as shown.

  6. #6
    650b me
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    More photos from today:

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-st-junction-filed-2.jpgGolden Boy - Frame #2-frame-filed-1.jpg

    The upload manager doesn't like my head tube detail photo for some reason.

  7. #7
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    It looks like you deserved gifting yourself that jig. That is some really nice work on just your 2nd frame.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  8. #8
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    VERY Sanitary!

    Bet you're feeling the frame schooling paid off!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  9. #9
    650b me
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    Thanks guys. My brazing still leaves much to be desired, but I realize that that takes time and lots of practice. I "compensate" by being a very patient and diligent filer. I haven't tracked my hours, but I'm pretty sure I've spent more time filing than all other fab work combined. I also work very hard to make my hand-filed miters as precise as possible.

  10. #10
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    Golden Boy - Frame #2

    The frame looks great!! I'm a beginning hobby builder too... finished #2 last summer.

    Did you do any bending of the stays, or were they all pre-bent? If they are pre-bent, where did you get them?

    What dropouts are those?

    Thanks. I look forward to seeing more pics!

  11. #11
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    Looks nice. Looks like there's some rust already inside the seat tube. Won't that happen to the seatstays if you leave that open?

  12. #12
    650b me
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    Been out of town, sorry for the delayed answers to your questions.

    Stays were bought pre-bent. Chainstays are Dedacciai DM-ZeroUno 29", part #MPO240C2022. I got them from Joe at Bringheli. Seatstays are True Temper HSBENDSS1, purchased from Henry James. Dropouts are Paragon DR2010, direct from Paragon Machine Works.

    Good question about the open-ended seatstays rusting. That's my biggest concern. If left open, I will definitely treat them with Framesaver. The frame is for my wife, and she never washes her bikes, nor rides them in wet conditions, so that would help.

  13. #13
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    We can't see if you did vent holes for the seatstays, are they as low as possible to let the water out? All our brazed frames with vent holes are open systems, but those open tops just seem to celebrate their openness. But, they are a great spot to keep adding framesaver Very nice job on frame #2!
    cheers
    andy walker
    walker bicyle co
    Walker Bicycle Company | | Walker Bicycle Company
    Flickr: afwalker's Photostream

  14. #14
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    Thanks Andy. I do have vent holes very near the bottom of the seatstays, so any accumulated moisture will, for the most part, drain out. "Celebrate their openness"...I like that! I'm going to go with it and see what happens. We all know steel frames rust on the inside regardless.

    As an aside, are you in Cape Girardeau? My mother was born and raised in Perryville, and my dad across the river in Chester, IL. I grew up in southern IL.

  15. #15
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    Yes that's the place. My wife and I like to bike up to Perryville for pie and ice cream at the Park-Et Restaraunt. Great folks there.
    Cheers
    Andy

  16. #16
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    Hey, it's almost a bike!

    Today was an interesting day for me. I reamed and faced the head tube, chased and faced the bottom bracket shell, then temporarily installed components to check fit and clearances. During and after the frame prep, I made a point of observing where material was removed first/where the most material was removed. The top of the head tube had more distortion than the bottom; not unexpected, considering the proximity of the top and down tubes to the ends of the head tube, with the top tube being much closer. I ran my finger inside the head tube afterwards to feel how much of a shelf was left behind - not bad for frame #2 IMO. Made similar observations after facing the BB shell; on the drive side, the groove on the PMW shell was completely removed on the bottom third of the face, then got progressively more visible towards the top of the face. Again, I would say this is expected since all of the heating/joining is biased towards the top half of the BB shell. Think macaroni noodle.

    Now for some photos. This one shows clearance between the chainrings and the chainstay. I had plotted this out on paper before fabbing. I think I ended up with more clearance than my plotted drawing. The chainstay may have ended up a bit inboard on the shell than on the drawing. Comparing the two chainstays, the drive side stay is slightly inboard (1-2mm) compared to the non drive-side stay (no photo).

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-chainring-clearance-2.jpg

    For this one, I threw the rear wheel in the dropouts to check chainstay clearance. Hard to capture well in a photo. I ended up with about 1/4" clearance per side with a Neo-Moto 2.1 installed. I'm happy. This is an improvement on frame #1. Chalk it up to using different chainstays (Deda 29'er) and having a built 650b wheel with mtb tire installed. At UBI, they had a 650b wheel available to check for clearance, but it had probably a 35mm street tire installed.

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-chainring-tire-clearance-1.jpg

    Here's one purporting to show tire/seatstay clearance. Again, hard to capture in a photo. Either that, or my photography skills just suck. Or I don't much care about my photography skills so long as I can build a decent frame. Anyway, I ended up with about 1/8" clearance per side. I wouldn't say I'm happy with this, but once again it is an improvement over frame #1. As long as I'm improving, I can't be too disappointed, right?

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-tire-seatstay-clearance-1.jpg

    Lastly, an overall shot of the frame with components. It's almost a bike!!!

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-frame-test-fit-2.jpg

  17. #17
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    Well;

    They are pretty nice pics. Let's say your frame building skills are better than your ability to depict the issue at hand! Lots of ring clearance. More than really needed. Are you giving up chainline unnecessarily? Just a thought. .125 seems awfully tight on the SSs. I'd want more room just so I didn't have to worry about keeping my wheel that true, if not for different tires. Exceptionally well finished!!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  18. #18
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    Golden Boy - Frame #2

    Really nice brazing, frame looks great! I'd be routing the cables down those open seatstay caps!
    And I'd lightly crimp/dimple at the tire knob for more clearance. Now what's the paint gonna be?

    As an aside and because someone kinda said something about having a JMan on frame 2...I also like paying the cost for the right fixture and spending most my time on the fab skills like brazing and welding. Making tools is fun but I prefer making frames and forks and leave the toolmaking to the expert machinists like Don.
    Especially if your goal is long term - to make a go of this - to make more than a frame or two a year. We all make our own $ choices for our own situations. My opinion obviously.

  19. #19
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    Thanks Meriwether!

    Great idea on the cable routing...I can't believe I hadn't thought of that yet. As for the tire clearance, it's not as bad as it appears in the photo, but I will definitely consider dimpling. That's a 2.1 tire in the photo, but it would be nice to have the ability to accommodate something bigger. Paint color is up to my wife. I am vacillating between a DIY rattle can job and paying for powder.

    I really appreciate your comments on buying tools and fixtures. Obviously, this is a matter of personal preference and an individual decision, but we are of the same mind. Like you, I made a decision a while back to focus on framebuilding - not tool/fixture/jig building. Besides, I don't have the tools needed to make custom tools and fixtures. One of my mantras is "buy once, buy well." I will, whenever possible, buy the most highly regarded tool for the job at hand. Even if it means waiting until I can afford it. And I do hope to build frames for a living someday, so I figure why not give myself a material advantage of having the best equipment available, recognizing that I have a lot of hard work ahead to improve my skill set.

  20. #20
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    Glaciers move/melt faster than I build

    Yet occasionally, I do make progress. Painted the frame today. Color in the photo is a little off. It's a bit more teal, actually. My wife picked it out, as it's her frame. Can't wait to build this sucker up!

    Golden Boy - Frame #2-painted3.jpg

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