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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    Geometry questions - how they affect ride quality

    I've ridden a L Santa Cruz Blur LT with a Lyrik at 160mm and 70mm stem. Retired it a year ago, and now I'm gonna get another one.

    I'm 6' tall.

    What I liked:
    Bike was poppy and fun, very agile. Cornering was good. Loved how playfull it was.

    What I didnt like:

    I felt cramped in the cockpit while climbing. Also had to really work to keep my weight over the front so it didn't lift. Climbing was doable. At high speeds it felt kinda twitchy.

    Sizing conundrum:

    I'm considering getting an XL this go round. This would add 1 inch to the ETT. I would also run a 60mm stem to offset the added inch in the top tube. In this mode, I would run the fork a little lower, should be about a 1 deg steeper HA. Since stays would be the same, and the seat angle only change by maybe .5 degree , I figure this would add ~1 inch to the front Center.

    While I'm sure the longer wheelbase and TT will help some of the issue I had with the L (climbing and stability at speed), will that come at the cost of less playfulness and agility?
    Would this be a significant change to the handling of the bike?

    Thanks,
    Dan

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    There is already a forum area for the Kaohsiung bikes.
    Santa Cruz - Mtbr Forums

    They might be able to help you with questions about a specific brand. I also assume they will be renaming the brand based on the new city of origin.
    Mark Farnsworth, Raleigh, NC
    http://farnsworthbikes.com

  3. #3
    mtbr member
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    Thanks, if you take a closer look you'll see I have a very similar post there

    I posted here because I'm looking for some insight in frame geo from folks who build and have experimented with numbers like front center and how it translates to ride experience.

  4. #4
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by dansMTB View Post
    Thanks, if you take a closer look you'll see I have a very similar post there

    I posted here because I'm looking for some insight in frame geo from folks who build and have experimented with numbers like front center and how it translates to ride experience.
    You barely mentioned front center and unless you measure it it can be hard to determine on a production bike. It is affected by ETT, STA, HTA, fork length, fork offset...

    FC and your hand position relative to the front axle largely determines the weight on the front end. I happen to know were I want both of those for the handling I prefer and set those when designing a frame and setting up production bikes.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  5. #5
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    Shiggy, thanks for the response

    Below, the 160mm setup on the left is what I last rode. I liked the agility and how playfull the bike rode. Only complaints were the front lifting during steep climbs, and some twitchy handling at high speed.

    The setup on the right with the 150mm fork is what I'm exploring. I'm confident it will stretch out the cockpit, and improve stability at speed and climbing. My biggest concern is whether these improvements would com at the cost of cornering, ease of front wheel lift, and agility.

    I know these will be reduced due to the longer wheel base and front center, but I don't know how much. Will these two different setups ride drastically different?

    I appreciate any feedback anyone can provide
    Also, for anyone else watching, I used this website for the geo calculation


  6. #6
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    You're looking for too much info that is way too subjective, but here's the bottom line: you are going to end up with a bike with a longer wheelbase and steeper HTA.

    The longer WB will make the bike a little bit better at high speed rough stuff, but the steeper HTA will have the opposite effect and probably you'll end up (IMO) not any happier with high speed handling.

    In terms of lifting the front end (whether you want to or not), provided your contact points stay the same, you won't notice much difference, since the CS length is the same and BB height is not changed much. Throwing the bike through corners and such will be a bit harder to do thanks to the longer WB.

    Honestly you should just put an adjustable travel fork on the bike you have now and crank the travel down for the steep climbs. Shorter travel fork on the XL is going to be an expensive mistake, IMO. That said, all this stuff is super subjective and you might love it.

    -Walt
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  7. #7
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    Thanks Walt, I'm open to any input I can get. Appreciate the help.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
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    Also want to mention, kudos on noticing what I said about the front end lift. Didn't notice until you put it that way that I was calling it a - in one respect, but a + in another.

  9. #9
    RCP Fabrication
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    My .02

    I think that going to an XL with a shorter fork is going to make you very unhappy.

    I feel that you are just running too short of a stem on the large, the short stem makes it nice and easy to get the front end up, but sucks for just about everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by dansMTB View Post
    What I liked:
    Bike was poppy and fun, very agile. Cornering was good. Loved how playful it was.
    You're going to lose most of this with the XL.

    What I didn't like:

    I felt cramped in the cockpit while climbing.
    Put a 90mm stem on it.
    Also had to really work to keep my weight over the front so it didn't lift.
    Put a 90mm stem on it.
    Climbing was doable.

    At high speeds it felt kinda twitchy.
    The longer wheelbase will make it a little more stable, but the steeper head angle not, probably a wash.

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