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  1. #1
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    CS disc brake construction on custom Ti frame

    Hi all!


    I'm ready to pull the trigger on a custom geo Ti 29er and ... details,details...


    How do you find the idea of a CS disc mount (160 rotor)?

    Chainstays are burlier to accomodate the mount,theoretically.. +,seat stays are supposed to be lighter/w equal characteristics for best absorption,and i thought it'd be nice idea to avoid the mount there + to avoid the SS/CS joint.

    Are the following bend SS difficult to achieve in Ti?

    Initially,it was an idea of the mechanic at my LBS and i liked it.
    He proposed me something like the 2011 Blue Pig thing,but i need to know your opinion..



    Thanks in advance,
    Kosmas.
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  2. #2
    Framebuilder
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    There are several things to take into consideration... but ultimately these questions can only be answered by your builder.

  3. #3
    pvd
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    Chainstay mounts are total garbage. Don't waste your time or money.

  4. #4
    RCP Fabrication
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    Check out paragon's drop outs, I have used them in the past, and will continue to do so, They are available in 6/4 ti.

    http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/c...ion&key=DR0035

  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    Live Wire,thanks!
    I understand what you mean,but i have 1.000.000 of presumption notes in a paper and i wish to narrow a little before i talk to a builder.This question is only a fragment....


    pvd,ok,do you want to justify this a little?Thanks!


    RCP FAB,thanks but i'm thinking seriously about the Syntace 142X12,so it has to be differently.I apologise,i forgot to mention...

  6. #6
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaratustra View Post
    Live Wire,thanks!
    I understand what you mean,but i have 1.000.000 of presumption notes in a paper and i wish to narrow a little before i talk to a builder.This question is only a fragment....


    pvd,ok,do you want to justify this a little?Thanks!


    RCP FAB,thanks but i'm thinking seriously about the Syntace 142X12,so it has to be differently.I apologise,i forgot to mention...
    You need to discuss the 12/142 dropouts with the builder, too. Have yet to see those in ti, either.

    Both the dropouts and low disc mount are entirely viable and doable--by the right builder. You need to find that builder.
    mtbtires.com
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  7. #7
    RCP Fabrication
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    Why not just go with a MAXLE and use a 12x135 hub?

  8. #8
    Old school BMXer
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    Let me guess...you also want a tapered head tube, BB30-type bottom bracket (or whatever the BB of the month is), a direct mount front derailleur, and a seat tube that will fit one of the dropper type seat posts...
    May the air be filled with tires!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200 View Post
    Let me guess...you also want a tapered head tube, BB30-type bottom bracket (or whatever the BB of the month is), a direct mount front derailleur, and a seat tube that will fit one of the dropper type seat posts...
    What's the problem if he does?

  10. #10
    Old school BMXer
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18bikes View Post
    What's the problem if he does?
    Did I imply there was?
    May the air be filled with tires!

  11. #11
    RCP Fabrication
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    Easy guys.

    Hes just looking for some advise on mounting the disc on the chain stay, not another argument on all the new frame technology.

    Theres no harm in a custom frame with all the fancy new stuff, assuming the builder can get the dropouts in TI.

  12. #12
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    Reworded for accuracy...

    Quote Originally Posted by RCP FAB View Post
    assuming the builder can make the dropouts in TI.
    maybe I'm feeling a bit grouchy today, but there is definitely too much supermarket shopping going on in the "handbuilt" industry today. What happened to the days where design and fabrication was the hallmark of the industry? Stop limiting design but what is commercially available and stretch your abilities.

    Kosmas...each choice in design offers a set of positive/negative factors to consider. The placement of the disc caliper location alone does not define the performance, so much as the tubing diameters, wall thickness, and physical accessibility characteristics the design dictates to compensates for the caliper position, do.

    The better question for you as you consider your build would be... "what would locating the disc caliper between the stays accomplish in my overall design?" "Does it improve the performance?" "Does it solve a long standing issue I've experienced" "What possible negative factors will this location present"

    If you are unable to fully answer each of these queries thoroughly, then it's time to pose the question to your builder and allow a relationship of education and trust to develop.

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  13. #13
    RCP Fabrication
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    Very true.

  14. #14
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    See if Rody was build your frame you wouldn't have to come here to answer your questions. Why did you go custom and how did you choose your builder? Those are the IMPORTANT questions!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
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    Ok..i take seriously everyone's comments and remarks ..

    BUT,in my position as a future customer,i need advice and knowledge exchange first of all from my friends,that's what i concider this conversation is.That's what MTBR is for me.
    When i want to find something i come here,search function,reading a lot,sometimes posting...you know..

    Also,trying to do my best with my lingo,it's not as easy as pedaling ..

    In my environment,sources of knowledge in this field are very very limited (29ers/custom building)..

    I choosed custom 'cause i have long legs for my general body proportions (having problems with my past frames),and because i want a frame built specially for my needs.
    I don't want to buy a new off the shelf frame again and not to have a clue if i will like it.
    In Greece it is impossible to test ride most of the frames,and my income comes with difficulty...


    ..but i don't want to take the thread elsewhere and make you tired..


    Definitely i'll talk to my builder..

    Thanks everyone,
    Kosmas.

  16. #16
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    Too much dictionary tonight...

    To my limited perception,2 perfectly made,identical (without construction differences=partial braking forces or anything) seatstays,bended or not,i thought it'd be a good idea..

    The traditional way of putting the junction between ss and cs,seems to me that differentiates the absorption from seatstay to seatstay.They have not identical properties anymore..to my eyes!Even if different thickness tubing is used!
    How can the ''best'' builder calculate the forces applied to each stay when every single braking time they are not the same?
    Also,how can the different hits from the ground can be ''translated'' equally?

    Given this traditional way of placing the caliper + junction,or without the junction,how can they be perfect?(There's no perfection of course,it's just an expression for ''better'')

    I was proposed to go this way and before i do i believed that posting here could help me to decide.

    Of course,with all the respect to every human,a frame builder would give me an expert opinion.A different one could give me another..
    Last edited by Zaratustra; 07-24-2011 at 07:46 PM.

  17. #17
    RCP Fabrication
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    I'm having a hard time reading some of that, but in my opinion, some of this is being over thought.

    Using a brace between the chain stay and the seat stay, or a thicker seat stay or both, may on some sort of stress or flex test make a difference, but I've ridden plenty of frames set up like this and can not notice a difference. I've never heard anyone else say they could either.

    The reason that I like a chain stay mounted brake is braking forces. Especially with a horizontal or sliding dropout.

    With a seat stay mounted brake the rotor passes though the caliper in the upper area, which when the brake is applied pushes the hub rearward.

    A chain stay mounted brake the rotor is passing though in a downward direction, which pushes the hub upward into the dropouts.

    The only way that I see one being stronger than the other is because the chain stays are usually thicker material, but you could run both seat tubes thicker, or use a drop out (high or low mount) with an integrated disc tab.

    Hope some of this is useful, but again, its just my opinion.

    Ryan

  18. #18
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    Hey Kosmas,
    Who is your custom ti welder? Some Russian guy with a torch? There are many great ti builders in Europe. Italy has three or four that come to mind. Whether you place the disc brake on the seat tube or chain stay really does not matter if they are done properly. If they are done improperly it does not matter where you put them either. You should be more concerned with finding the right builder for you and communicating properly with them. Leave the design minutia to them....

    Remember to pay your taxes, your country needs them! Sorry I'm such an a-hat.

  19. #19
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    Ryan,i'm sorry for my poor English!

    Thanks for sharing!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii View Post
    Hey Kosmas,
    Who is your custom ti welder? Some Russian guy with a torch? There are many great ti builders in Europe. Italy has three or four that come to mind. Whether you place the disc brake on the seat tube or chain stay really does not matter if they are done properly. If they are done improperly it does not matter where you put them either. You should be more concerned with finding the right builder for you and communicating properly with them. Leave the design minutia to them....

    Remember to pay your taxes, your country needs them! Sorry I'm such an a-hat.
    I haven't decide yet!But i read here about the Russian guy..

    You are right,i'll leave the design to my builder...

  21. #21
    Shamisen Appreciator
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    Rody, for someone feeling grumpy you sure worded that nicely. I'll up your grumpy ante..

    (unpopular ambiguous comments edited out)

    Shiggy, I know you and trust your opinions ...can you tell me that the 12/142 drops make a difference in the rear end stiffness of a hardtail? I don't buy it, but I haven't built or ridden one yet so my suspicions aren't worth much.
    Last edited by smudge; 07-25-2011 at 09:21 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Smudge,thanks for your time and for the info.I'll go that way!

  23. #23
    RCP Fabrication
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    I've also seen unfinished welds from a russian guy, I don't know if it's the same russian guy but...on a forum somewhere else he said, "the welds are supposed to be that color (blue and purple), it's OK, we blast it away"...BTW, they're not supposed to be a color.
    Last edited by RCP FAB; 07-24-2011 at 09:15 PM.

  24. #24
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    You wanted me to do your work for you, here it is:

    Some Italian ti builders are: Nevi(maybe the best), Dario Pegoretti, Rewel, constructiontitanium, http://crisptitanium.com(He would be my first call), SOMEC, Passoni, one of the de Rosa's would build you a custum ti bike. Van Nicholas - Dutchhttp://vannicholas.com/, Amaro - Spanish
    http://www.amarobikes.com/
    http://www.e-h-b-e.eu/english.html
    Paduano Caino mtb
    Legend makes neat custom road bikes(call them and ask them for MTB recommendations).

    These are all cut and pastes from doing real simple searches. Reynolds tubing in the UK(call them and ask them who uses their tubing.
    http://twentynineinches.com/ has a lot of posts from Europe. They mention a bunch of German custom guys. I am sure the Frogs have a lot too.

    Get off your A and do some research, they are out there

  25. #25
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    smudge,
    I know of exactly one great builder in Italy...his name is Darren Crisp. I know of two others in Italy. I won't name them but I've seen COOKED frames from both of them.
    Agreed Crisp's work is sweet. The others I do not know. I just seems to me that the OP was more interested in minutia than in really finding a builder. Now if the OP was: I am thinking about a custom ti bike, what should I look for in a builder? I would have been much more helpful and less of a a hat.

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