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  1. #26
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    70 is going to be pretty crappy, once sagged it's going to feel like you are way over the rear wheel.

    Go 73-74.

    Another great single pivot bike to copy geo from. I have the previous version of this, it's a touch steeping in the HA at 67 and I think the sta is 72.7.
    Xprezo - Fabrication 100% canadienne

  2. #27
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    Hi Adam

    Are you aware that you can use a Down-tube for the Seat stem from Nova Cycles that is 34.9mm, 15 degree bend. At your length of seat tube, you would have 0.6mm wall, so it needs a sleeve. Seat stem: using a dropper post @ 31.6mm, you will need a 1mm walled sleeve.

    NOV-CODT-B35-969

    This will allow you to attach to the BB shell and clear the tyre.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    70 is going to be pretty crappy, once sagged it's going to feel like you are way over the rear wheel.

    Go 73-74.

    Another great single pivot bike to copy geo from. I have the previous version of this, it's a touch steeping in the HA at 67 and I think the sta is 72.7.
    Xprezo - Fabrication 100% canadienne
    Oh dang! that's why I need you guys. Yeah, I generally like a slack STA due to my ridiculously long femurs, but you're right about the sag, I think I'll steepen that up a tad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Malcolm View Post
    Hi Adam

    Are you aware that you can use a Down-tube for the Seat stem from Nova Cycles that is 34.9mm, 15 degree bend. At your length of seat tube, you would have 0.6mm wall, so it needs a sleeve. Seat stem: using a dropper post @ 31.6mm, you will need a 1mm walled sleeve.

    NOV-CODT-B35-969

    Eric
    Eric,

    That's a great tip! Thanks.
    Although, what would I rather have... a sleeved seat tube, or a floating bottom bracket?

  4. #29
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    Adam
    To clarify the sleeve, the 34.9 Tube needs an outer sleeve, used with a 1mm walled inner sleeve. The ideal seat stem size is 33.6mm.

    If it was my build, I would prefer a solid BB to a 'noodly' one. And I would be radical and do a steel inner sleeve machined with a shoulder to suit the seat stem and silver it in.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  5. #30
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    Yep, I hear ya Eric,
    I think I'm going to go that way. I just got a lathe, so I suppose it will be a fun job for that.

    While I'm posting here, I've looked all around for tech drawings of FOX forks and can't seem to find any. I just need that AC length for the 150mm Talus 34. Can't seem to find it...

  6. #31
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    Should be about 540mm at 150mm of travel.

    The 160mm is 550mm.

    My old 150mm Talus 36 is listed at 545mm.

  7. #32
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    Are you planning on using a Front Derailleur? If so, check your clearance to the swingarm and think about how you plan on attaching it.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  8. #33
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    Nope. Not a big fan of those, I'm gonna stick a Chain guide mount on there and run one of those, I don't think I'll need that much clearance for one.

  9. #34
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    Sweet, Thanks Shirk!

  10. #35
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    I can roll a tube for you, I just have the harbor freight but with the swag offroad dies. Has to be non-heat treated, so a TT versus, or a nova like the ex butted 28.6 EXTERNAL BUTT SEAT TUBE 1.2/0.6/0.9 x 580 :: EXTERNAL BUTT SEAT TUBES :: ROUND TUBES :: MAIN TUBES :: TUBES STEEL :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.
    cheers
    andy walker

  11. #36
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    Orange has a pretty good drawing of their frames on the website. I have not checked if it's to proper scale, but I assume it is.

    The Five is known to me a great riding bike. Some small tweaks to account for 650b and it's another great frame to model you bike after.

    I am working on modeling a bike after the Alpine 160.

    1 3/4 0.049 straight gauge for the downtube
    TT 34.9 seattube
    TT 44mm headtube

    Undecided on a .9/.6/.9 versus 34.9 toptube or 1 3/4 0.035 straight gauge

    Also still trying to figure out what gauge and diameter to use for the rear triangle.

    For the main pivot I plan to use a 31.8 headtube then use a 25.4 steer tube as the pivot axle. This way I can use two upper cups from a 1" headset as bearings. I learned this from digging in Walts blog.

    Just need to continue my braze practice and get a couple hardtails under my belt before going from concept/planning to reality.

  12. #37
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    Exactly. These days asking about where the front derailleur will mount on a mountain bike is like asking where the canti hanger will go. I have literally not sold a single mountain bike with a front derailleur in something like 10 months.

    -Walt
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  13. #38
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    Andy,

    That's super generous of you, thanks so much! I may have actually figured a way to go with a straight ST, which I will touch on later, but I may also take you up on that.

    And Shirk,
    Very cool. I'm planning on the two headset tops as well, I'm using a butted top tube and not really worried about it.

    My rear triangle is going to be 7/8" x .035" straight gauge for the upper part and 5/8" x .035 for the support, which kind of seems overbuilt to me, but I suppose we'll see.

  14. #39
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    650b full suspension-9256119629_43f230487d_z.jpgI have the 1 1/8 and 1 1/4" swag dies, may have to add the 1.375" anyway Here's 20mm on the ex butted nova ST.
    cheers
    andy walker

  15. #40
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    Well... Here's a change...

    I've changed my mind. I just finished building a frame for a buddy with 650b wheels, my first experience with them. At first I didn't have a wheel to stick in the frame, so I was using a 26er to check things out, but it seemed a little big. I measured it, and it was 27".

    I guess I new this already, but just hadn't really thought about it.

    So I've decided to build this thing as a 26er. It's going to make actually building it up soooooooooooooo much cheaper because I can buy stuff off of friends and I'm honestly starting to think that this 650b thing is pretty dumb (Start argument: take it to another thread if you want).

    This will also allow me to not bend any tubes, and if I build something super shitty, I'll have spent less money which is really great.

    Anyhow, I'm hoping to get the front triangle mitered tomorrow and then I'll start working on the pivot and maybe the rear triangle. Updates to come... some time.

  16. #41
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    Well...

    Just because the rims don't measure what they are called - they rarely do by the way - you can't argue with the physical merits of the "27/29" inchers. You simply make your choices. Going with a more economically feasible build makes perfect sense from that standpoint, if that is an important consideration. Can't argue that, although the only thing really different is the wheels & tires. Probably, just getting started and figuring out full suspension in the easiest fashion makes the most sense. Save the fancy stuff for when you've got it all doped.

    Watching......
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  17. #42
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    Given the price (free, if you have as many bike dork friends as me) of 26" parts these days, and given that I happen to know the OP is a starving college student (who builds crazy awesome stuff and whose talent I am jealous of) I'd say 26" makes perfect sense.

    Honestly having ridden 26 vs 650 head to head I can't say I can tell much of a difference anyway.

    -Walt
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post

    I am working on modeling a bike after the Alpine 160.

    1 3/4 0.049 straight gauge for the downtube
    TT 34.9 seattube
    TT 44mm headtube

    Undecided on a .9/.6/.9 versus 34.9 toptube or 1 3/4 0.035 straight gauge

    Also still trying to figure out what gauge and diameter to use for the rear triangle.

    For the main pivot I plan to use a 31.8 headtube then use a 25.4 steer tube as the pivot axle. This way I can use two upper cups from a 1" headset as bearings. I learned this from digging in Walts blog.

    Just need to continue my braze practice and get a couple hardtails under my belt before going from concept/planning to reality.
    dude. you building bikes? tres awesome!

  19. #44
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    xy9ine, Thanks for pointing out so my brain could read the 2nd time, The 1" steerer tube with headsets for bearings. Aha, that's a great idea Walt used. Hmmm...
    cheers
    andy walker

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by xy9ine View Post
    dude. you building bikes? tres awesome!
    Currently teaching myself how to braze.

    Couple hardtails first them some sort of straight gauge fs beast (beast in over built weight, not some DH huck monster).


  21. #46
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    Wow, thanks for making my day Walt! Dang that's a nice thing to say haha.

    But yeah, I do happen to be in that starving college student position (or at least I will be after this bike) And I think I have enough biker friends to do it for realllly cheap in 26. So that's good.

    And I'm glad to hear a more trusted opinion on my observation of the 650 thing.

    Adam

  22. #47
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    Front triangle

    Alright, well I finally have some progress to report, or at least I hope.
    I brazed up a front triangle, but I think I'm stuck here for a little bit. Here is where I'm at:



    Looking pretty good I suppose. My worry is here though. I was thinking of eventually using a King headset for my pivot, so I bought a couple super cheap ones with about the same stack height to start off with. After sticking them in the pivot with the tubes that I'm planning on using to clamp on the rear end, things are looking pretty wide - 4.5" or 115mm wide.



    I don't have my cranks in hand yet, so I'm not sure if I'm screwed, but what do you think? I measured some other cranks and I think I should be OK (doesn't mean I won't hit my heels on stuff) but it just doesn't feel right.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b full suspension-20130723-160842.jpg  


  23. #48
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    Re: chainline vs pivot.

    I measured my E-Thirteen triple and I would suggest that it is representative of cranksets in general, and at 115mm width, it looks like you could only use the outer chain ring only. That would not make for a tidy 1 x anything arrangement.

    Now that is all in place (welded), I presume that the pivot is press-fit 30mm for the head cups? You could in that case make an internal spacer and use sealed cartridge bearings 6903 series, 17 x 30 x 7mm - pressed in. Machine up for yourself a 17mm hollow pivot shaft and you will have the clearance needed.

    Something to consider.......not as good a bearing design, headset bearings would be better, but your options are limited.

    The build looks really good with plenty of bracing/surface area keeping the BB and pivot rigid.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  24. #49
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    Thanks Eric,

    Yeah I was thinking just pressing in bearings would be my other option. I think I'm going to go ahead and find a crappy, representative crank set at the bike co-op and check it out, I think I could be OK.

    In the mean time I'm going to go ahead and order my stuff. I picked up a fork and wheels today. Gettin' serious money wise about now, so I hope this works.

  25. #50
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    Curious why you moved the pivot point vs the original drawing or bikes like Heckler/Orange.

    Can you go narrower on your collars that are going to clamp to the pivot shaft? Perhaps squish the ends of your swing arm tubes to gain clearance.

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