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Thread: 36.6

  1. #1
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    Listen! 36.6

    So bike number six will be a 36er I know I know make something different already, bike 7 will probably be a 29+ but for now three foot wheels. This one will be 7005 tubing same geo as 5 the only real change is the tubing diameter 1-3/4" DT and 1-3/8" TT I may change the CS
    Diameter but dont have the bending dies for 7/8". I mght try some real
    chain stays grafted to 3/4" to get the required length. No pics yet but will post some soon!!!

    Merry Christmas....O...wait may not be allowed to say that so Happy Holiday's everyone!!
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  2. #2
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    what if they had a war on Christmas and nobody came?

  3. #3
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    Ok did a little work on 36.6!

    36.6-dsc00714.jpg36.6-dsc00715.jpg36.6-dsc00716.jpg36.6-dsc00717.jpg
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  4. #4
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    Looking good Todwil!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    what if they had a war on Christmas and nobody came?
    Peace on Earth!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Looking good Todwil!
    Thanx Matt, are you goig to NAHBS this year I think its in your back yard.

    Santy brought a new drill press and I had to try the tubing notcher from
    HF it actually works good...after you center the clamp!

    36.6-dsc00720.jpg36.6-dsc00719.jpg36.6-dsc00718.jpg
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  6. #6
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    I will be there unless my plans change. Only a 3hr drive from here.

  7. #7
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    Heres a couple more pics from todays efforts I need to get some more tubing and a bending die to finish Im going up to 7/8" for the chain stays


    36.6-dsc00726.jpg36.6-dsc00727.jpg
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  8. #8
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    Nice miters, looking good!

  9. #9
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    Look pretty perfect!
    Care to share some geometry? You have a ton of experience riding these it seems and would love to hear what you've learned through your builds on what works and doesn't!

  10. #10
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    Thanx

    the geo is
    71.5/73 HT/ST (I have to use a setback post to get to 73*)
    770mm FC
    24 5/8" TT
    18" ST
    520mm CS
    510mm AC

    The biggest hurdle is the wheels you have to get around, over and thru them bad boys. So to get the shortest chain stays you have to interrupt the seat tube either by
    bending it or choking up on the DT I like the looks of the radius tubes. The DT is next
    some can get the front tire to clear with a straight tube when I tried it was to close.
    So to the radius bender with that tube also. With this tire size handlebar height is starting to get high so I use the shortest headtube possible with inset bearings.
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  11. #11
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    Is this one for you? FC always looks whacky on these. That tire is waaaay out there.

    What is the fork offset and resulting trail?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Thanx

    the geo is
    71.5/73 HT/ST (I have to use a setback post to get to 73*)
    770mm FC
    24 5/8" TT
    18" ST
    520mm CS
    510mm AC

    The biggest hurdle is the wheels you have to get around, over and thru them bad boys. So to get the shortest chain stays you have to interrupt the seat tube either by
    bending it or choking up on the DT I like the looks of the radius tubes. The DT is next
    some can get the front tire to clear with a straight tube when I tried it was to close.
    So to the radius bender with that tube also. With this tire size handlebar height is starting to get high so I use the shortest headtube possible with inset bearings.
    Thanks for that!
    How tall are you? Is that the 'minimum' frame size that can handle the wheels in your experience?
    What trail figure are you getting shooting for? What fork offset are you using?
    I'm using bikecad and it seems like I'm not getting the same overlap issues on the front end but definitely am on the back end with the seat tube even with bending it a bunch.
    What is the diameter and width of the tire you're using?
    Sorry for all the questions or if I missed the answers in a previous post!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Is this one for you? FC always looks whacky on these. That tire is waaaay out there.

    What is the fork offset and resulting trail?
    Yea Matt this frame is going to replace my current aluminum bike, the rake I'm running is 80mm but Ive never figured out trail and I haven't experimented with
    Rake Walt recommended this rake when he built me a fork and it works very good
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Thanks for that!
    How tall are you? Is that the 'minimum' frame size that can handle the wheels in your experience?
    What trail figure are you getting shooting for? What fork offset are you using?
    I'm using bikecad and it seems like I'm not getting the same overlap issues on the front end but definitely am on the back end with the seat tube even with bending it a bunch.
    What is the diameter and width of the tire you're using?
    Sorry for all the questions or if I missed the answers in a previous post!
    Ah....forgot about standover very good question the TT rises fast to clear the front tire so the boys get crowded this is something you'll have
    to compromise on. I made a small (15.5") if you can call it that.

    36.6-dsc00438.jpg36.6-dsc00440.jpg


    Also Walt's blog has some great info on 3 foot wheeled bikes! The wheel diameter with tire is not quite 36" the widest part is 17 1/2"
    from center this is with the Vee rubber tire I would definitely get the
    rear wheel tire combo before you start
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Heres a couple more pics from todays efforts I need to get some more tubing and a bending die to finish Im going up to 7/8" for the chain stays
    Todd,

    Theoretically, assuming your walls are about 1/16'' (1.6mm), the 7/8'' tube has 141.8% more Section modulous (strength) compared to the 3/4" tube !



    What was the size of the chainstays you were using on your other steel 36ers ?

    Keep up the good work !

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Thanks for that!
    How tall are you? Is that the 'minimum' frame size that can handle the wheels in your experience?
    What trail figure are you getting shooting for? What fork offset are you using?
    I'm using bikecad and it seems like I'm not getting the same overlap issues on the front end but definitely am on the back end with the seat tube even with bending it a bunch.
    What is the diameter and width of the tire you're using?
    Sorry for all the questions or if I missed the answers in a previous post!
    I think this blog post from Walt does a good job answering a lot of questions :

    Waltworks Bicycles: Everything you've ever wanted to know about 36ers but were afraid to ask

  16. #16
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    Thanx for info yea the tubes are both .065. I use 3/4 x .035 on the steal bikes!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Thanks for that!
    How tall are you? Is that the 'minimum' frame size that can handle the wheels in your experience?
    What trail figure are you getting shooting for? What fork offset are you using?
    I'm using bikecad and it seems like I'm not getting the same overlap issues on the front end but definitely am on the back end with the seat tube even with bending it a bunch.
    What is the diameter and width of the tire you're using?
    Sorry for all the questions or if I missed the answers in a previous post!
    Here's a couple more pics one is a card board rendering a guy sent me and the other two are my very first bike/36er.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 36.6-bram-bam.jpg  

    36.6-dsc00546.jpg  

    36.6-dsc00549.jpg  

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  18. #18
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    Nice miters, looks like that cheap HF tubing notcher works well on aluminium.
    Have you tried the tubing notcher on thin wall steel tubing yet?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_K View Post
    Nice miters, looks like that cheap HF tubing notcher works well on aluminium.
    Have you tried the tubing notcher on thin wall steel tubing yet?
    Not yet but I'll try it tonite and see.
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  20. #20
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    Also I ordered one those monster nozzles kits for my tig torch to get the tungsten out further but its acting like the sheilding gas isnt covering right anyone else messed with one of these?
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  21. #21
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    Do you mean like a CK large diameter gas lens?
    Gas Saver front end accessory kits from CK Worldwide Quality TIG Welding Torches & Accessories
    I've tried it and not loved it so much.
    I'm now using a #12 cup and large diameter gas lens and stubby backcap, I am getting used to it.
    andy walker

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_K View Post
    Nice miters, looks like that cheap HF tubing notcher works well on aluminium.
    Have you tried the tubing notcher on thin wall steel tubing yet?
    It went thru like butter but Im sure that holesaws die faster with steel.
    heres a couple pics

    36.6-dsc00728.jpg36.6-dsc00730.jpg36.6-dsc00731.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by afwalker View Post
    Do you mean like a CK large diameter gas lens?
    Gas Saver front end accessory kits from CK Worldwide Quality TIG Welding Torches & Accessories
    I've tried it and not loved it so much.
    I'm now using a #12 cup and large diameter gas lens and stubby backcap, I am getting used to it.
    andy walker
    Andy its similar, Im getting better with it heres what it looks like.

    36.6-dsc00732.jpg

    Also I found some 7/8" tubing at a hardware store to see if it can be bent in a 1" die and it didn't do to bad.

    36.6-dsc00733.jpg36.6-dsc00734.jpg
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    It went thru like butter but Im sure that holesaws die faster with steel.
    heres a couple pics



    Looks good.
    I'm not sure if I'll ever get one of those, but it's good to know it works.

  24. #24
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    Well I ordered a new 7/8" die for my JD2 bender and some dropouts from Kavik bikes I was originally going to use the drops from my current frame but change my mind.
    Maybe some updated pics early next week.
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  25. #25
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    Well the brown truck drop off a new die for 7/8" and I got the Kavik drops in the mail so it back to work on the 36er!
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  26. #26
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    Here some pics from todays efforts.

    36.6-dsc00735.jpg36.6-dsc00736.jpg36.6-dsc00738.jpg
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  27. #27
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    Ok I been slackin lately but did some real important 3foot wheel work
    today!!!

    36.6-dsc00739.jpg36.6-dsc00740.jpg36.6-dsc00741.jpg36.6-dsc00742.jpg
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  28. #28
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    36.6.2

    Ok I change my mind on the CS's the S bend stays just didn't look good to me so a new set where made tacked it together and put the wheel in and a crank set in to make sure it all fit....

    36.6-dsc00744.jpg36.6-dsc00745.jpg36.6-dsc00746.jpg
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  29. #29
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    A little further today!!

    36.6-dsc00747.jpg36.6-dsc00748.jpg
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  30. #30
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    One more nothing close to what some of you folks can do!!

    36.6-dsc00750.jpg
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  31. #31
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    31.24lbs

    Well its put together will take out tomorrow for maiden ride!!It hangs from the scale 31.24lbs

    36.6-dsc00752.jpg36.6-dsc00753.jpg
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  32. #32
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    Wow, weight weenie circus bike!
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    Wow, weight weenie circus bike!

    Just trying to help.......Clowns are people too!! Took it for a ride today sure missed the sus fork but it rides good..
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  34. #34
    eng
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    Well, for once, I like it.

  35. #35
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    Hmmm...

    You've gotten very good at a lot of things in a very short time!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  36. #36
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    Thanx

    Quote Originally Posted by eng View Post
    Well, for once, I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Hmmm...

    You've gotten very good at a lot of things in a very short time!

    Thanx sometimes Im a little reluctent to post pics of my welding ability because there 30 footers!!
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  37. #37
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    Actually...

    For as little aluminum welding as I know you to have done - what I've seen here - those are very nice welds. Not saying they are worthy of The Professor or anything, but they are as good as some of the production stuff I've seen. Better than I can do!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  38. #38
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    Question on the Chainstay cut-out and capping - tire clearance.

    Now that you have a full bike now rideable, is there much lateral flex? I know that when a wheel is fitted, this stiffens the whole structure, what I am interested in is how bendy is the whole fitted up structure as built up and completed as a bike. Your 36" wheel will expose design flaws more readily than a short chainstay BMX bike. Just wondering how yours has come out.

    Eric
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  39. #39
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    Yea for tire clearance adding an 1/8" doesn't seem like a lot but it is when trying to get tire, cranks and chainring to fit. The lateral flex is less than the steel frames and the last aluminum one That I built in Oct.
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  40. #40
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    Hey thanks.

    I have noted in general, how various recent builds are trending in this cramped area and how they are performing. I am not doubting any method, just looking at what works, and you have a few examples to compare which is why I asked.

    Enjoy your ride, that's why we do this hobby.

    Thanks again,

    Eric
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  41. #41
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    Nicely done! I dig those chainstays! Has me wondering about doing that with steel for fat tires. Seems easier than a yoke and cheaper.

  42. #42
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    Hey;

    Of course, these clown stays are quite nice. Regarding this in general. I've had no problem getting clearance on my Fatties without any games at all. No dimples, no squashing, nothin. I suppose if you are trying for short stays, you might need to play these games. I have not built a short stay bike as of yet, so I can't say from ride experience, but my gut says it is all a bunch of hype & hooey. I've laid out short stay fatbikes bikes, and still did not have to do any of this squashing junk to get room. i'd like to build a short stay fattie, just to see if it makes any difference.

    I'm betting not that much.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Hey;

    Of course, these clown stays are quite nice. Regarding this in general. I've had no problem getting clearance on my Fatties without any games at all. No dimples, no squashing, nothin. I suppose if you are trying for short stays, you might need to play these games. I have not built a short stay bike as of yet, so I can't say from ride experience, but my gut says it is all a bunch of hype & hooey. I've laid out short stay fatbikes bikes, and still did not have to do any of this squashing junk to get room. i'd like to build a short stay fattie, just to see if it makes any difference.

    I'm betting not that much.
    Tried short stays on the first fat frame I did for myself last year - I think it's around 440mm. Was terrible on climbs in warm weather - kept pulling the front wheel without concentrating on getting my weight on the front end.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Nicely done! I dig those chainstays! Has me wondering about doing that with steel for fat tires. Seems easier than a yoke and cheaper.
    Thanx I would like to take credit for the idea but I saw it done on a fat frame and it looked clean so when I couldn't get all to fit I did a little R&D (review and duplicate) from Kavik facebook pics! He has some fat frames he was making that he shows a real clear pic of. It is definitely easier than smashing and flattening.
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  45. #45
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    I observed in my early years in the Bike trade, that when presented with frames requiring rear end repairs that round stays were the strongest (required the most effort to bring into alignment). Mostly on track bikes, these were stiff as a bike. Road bikes were either round-oval-round or dimpled. ROR was without doubt better than dimpled especially on the drive side for the same give wall thickness. The variations that we see now are quite numerous and it is hard to clarify which ones really work well as comparisons are hard to come by. I like the conclusion of this variation.

    Eric
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  46. #46
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    All I have to say is that bike is awesome. I LOVE it!

    Do you have any pictures with you on it? I'm trying to get an idea of scale.

    I'd love to have something like that, where I could sit really deep, with a super long wheelbase, just for rocketing down long road descents.

  47. #47
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    Let me clarify;

    Saying that I didn't think it would make much difference was not clearly illustrative of my point. I don't think it would have a lot of positive effect on a fatbike's handling. Like Testmule says, I was betting it would be negative; reducing the characteristic of Fatness that is one of its hallmarks - tractability.

    I would surmise that this cutting and capping routine was stronger than squashing of any sort, which is probably done because it is a QUICK & EASY way to buy clearance in a production setting, not because it helps frame stiffness.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  48. #48
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    In defense of short stay fatties, they're a blast on dirt! Maybe not for snow, but I think maybe there's 2 different uses there. 415 CS wheelie bike
    Name:  13276287445_743ccdaefb.jpg
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    cheers
    andy

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BungedUP View Post
    All I have to say is that bike is awesome. I LOVE it!

    Do you have any pictures with you on it? I'm trying to get an idea of scale.

    I'd love to have something like that, where I could sit really deep, with a super long wheelbase, just for rocketing down long road descents.

    Thanx no pics of a clown on the clown......fat people don't photog well!!!!
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  50. #50
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    Just rode the fiftee....19.6 proof at the Whiskey Offroad this last weekend bike handled everything well. The CS held up like a champ!!!
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