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  1. #1
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    142x12 on a Custom Steel Frame

    I am looking for thoughts, opinions, info regarding the 142x12 through axle vs standard dropouts for a custom steel frame. I need to make a decision for my frame builder and I am struggling to see the value of the new standard but maybe that's just me being a little old school.

  2. #2
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    If you're talking about a hardtail frame, it will make no difference in how the bike rides. If it's a full suspension bike, might or might not matter depending on the suspension design and your size/riding style. I've tried the two axle setups head to head (I have some frames with swappable dropout inserts that can run both as well as conversion endcaps for my DT hubs) on the same bikes (both hardtail and single-pivot FS) and I can't feel any difference at all. I'm 150# but super, super aggro, so something of a middle-of-the-road test case.

    Then again, there is really not much downside either, so if it's something you think is cool, go for it. If you think it's stupid and/or have a 135x10 wheel you want to use, then stick with that. It honestly isn't a big deal either way. If you *really* can't decide, just have your builder use some dropouts that can be swapped out (Paragon Poly, Slider, etc) and you can change your mind for ~$50 anytime you want.

    -Walt
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

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    142x12 on a Custom Steel Frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    If you're talking about a hardtail frame, it will make no difference in how the bike rides. If it's a full suspension bike, might or might not matter depending on the suspension design and your size/riding style. I've tried the two axle setups head to head (I have some frames with swappable dropout inserts that can run both as well as conversion endcaps for my DT hubs) on the same bikes (both hardtail and single-pivot FS) and I can't feel any difference at all. I'm 150# but super, super aggro, so something of a middle-of-the-road test case.

    Then again, there is really not much downside either, so if it's something you think is cool, go for it. If you think it's stupid and/or have a 135x10 wheel you want to use, then stick with that. It honestly isn't a big deal either way. If you *really* can't decide, just have your builder use some dropouts that can be swapped out (Paragon Poly, Slider, etc) and you can change your mind for ~$50 anytime you want.

    -Walt
    Agreed. The ONLY reason I would build a hardtail with 142/12 is if most/all of my wheels were 142.
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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies. At the risk of sounding old school the technology and designs keep changing so fast whatever you build up is out of date in a year. Technology marches on!

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    142x12 on a Custom Steel Frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    Thanks for the replies. At the risk of sounding old school the technology and designs keep changing so fast whatever you build up is out of date in a year. Technology marches on!
    Not being the latest fashion does not mean it is out of date.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  6. #6
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    142x12 is simply awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    I am looking for thoughts, opinions, info regarding the 142x12 through axle vs standard dropouts for a custom steel frame. I need to make a decision for my frame builder and I am struggling to see the value of the new standard but maybe that's just me being a little old school.
    142x12 is simply awesome!

    Why would anyone use road bike style dropouts on a mountain bike. Road bike style dropouts provide slightly quicker wheel changes but in the woods you don't often have a team car so it's not going to help you out.

    On a mountain bike, through axles are the way to go. Wheel changes are plenty fast and each time you put the wheel in you are 100% certain you have the proper alignment. With through axles you don't need to worry about the wheel being tilted and when riding rough stuff the wheel will not shift. It is simply a clean design that works very well for off road use.
    Mark Farnsworth, Raleigh, NC
    http://farnsworthbikes.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by febikes View Post
    142x12 is simply awesome!

    Why would anyone use road bike style dropouts on a mountain bike. Road bike style dropouts provide slightly quicker wheel changes but in the woods you don't often have a team car so it's not going to help you out.

    On a mountain bike, through axles are the way to go. Wheel changes are plenty fast and each time you put the wheel in you are 100% certain you have the proper alignment. With through axles you don't need to worry about the wheel being tilted and when riding rough stuff the wheel will not shift. It is simply a clean design that works very well for off road use.

    it seems the opinion is there is absolutely no downside to it. I have a ton of faith in my frame builder and he swears by the 142x12 as well. Looks like the decision is made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    it seems the opinion is there is absolutely no downside to it. I have a ton of faith in my frame builder and he swears by the 142x12 as well. Looks like the decision is made.
    If drivetrain component and replacement/consumables costs aren't an issue probably so, latest and greatest always demands(and gets) top $.

    Walt: 'If you *really* can't decide, just have your builder use some dropouts that can be swapped out (Paragon Poly, Slider, etc) and you can change your mind for ~$50 anytime you want."

    Walts advice seems like a no brainer, options are always a good thing.

    Now for a little "devil's advocate". Curious why the appeal for the 12, a couple of more steps between small and big cog over a 10 but is the need perceived or actual, are two more cogs going to make you a better, faster rider? I'm not suggestion a return to the days of 7 cog freewheels, just wondering why more than a 10 is necessary/desireable. Also, who is the builder? For some reason a lot of people don't say who their builder will be in these discussions even when the final choice is made, anyone have an answer why?

    Thanks, Brian

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    142x12 on a Custom Steel Frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    it seems the opinion is there is absolutely no downside to it. I have a ton of faith in my frame builder and he swears by the 142x12 as well. Looks like the decision is made.
    I have never had an issue with standard open dropouts on a rigid/hardtail frame.

    For me the huge downside of 142/12 is I have 12-15 wheelsets that I can and do swap between bikes. One of those can be converted to 142/12.

    If I had a suspension bike with 142 I would start looking at it for a hardtail for wheel compatibility.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by calstar View Post
    Walt: 'If you *really* can't decide, just have your builder use some dropouts that can be swapped out (Paragon Poly, Slider, etc) and you can change your mind for ~$50 anytime you want."

    Walts advice seems like a no brainer, options are always a good thing.

    Now for a little "devil's advocate".Curious why the appeal for the 12, a couple of more steps between small and big cog over a 10 but is the need perceived or actual, are two more cogs going to make you a better, faster rider? I'm not suggestion a return to the days of 7 cog freewheels, just wondering why more than a 10 is necessary. Also, who is the builder? For some reason a lot of people don't say who their builder will be in these discussions even when the final choice is made, anyone have an answer why?

    Thanks, Brian

    I am not sure I understand your point on the 10 or 12 cogs. The 12 in the 142x12 refers to the axle size I think. As far as naming my builder, I did not name the builder because I did not want anyone to start getting into the debate of "This builder is better than that one, or this builder gave me bad service". To me there seem to be a lot of threads that turn into a once company or builder is better than the other so I chose to avoid it.

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    Oh oops, shows how much I know about state of the art components(and senior moment), I was thinking wow, somone is making a 12 cog cassette?

    And good reason for not naming the builder, I see where it could get a little "messy".

    Brian
    Last edited by calstar; 07-14-2013 at 07:29 PM.

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    That's funny, but it may just point to the next fad, 12 gears. I've heard the 142mm with 12mm wide through axle is great for full suspension mtb bikes, not needed for hardtails, especially if you already have wheels with regular quick release axles. But, since I'm building bikes for folks now, I want them to have options for the future. The poly drops and such that allow swapping for different axles seem like the way to go. There are so many fads that are just ways to sell stuff, it's hard to see the best line to follow. Press fit BB's? I bought the anvil adapter just in case.
    cheers
    andy walker

  13. #13
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    100% The 12 refers to the axle...not the number of cogs. There may be an exemption out there, but as far as I know the shell size between 135x10qr vs. 142x12ta is exactly the same.

    And if your hardtail design is so poor that a 142x12 is adding any appreciable stiffness/strength/vertical compliance.... the rest of the design is rubbish. As has been stated before, and emphasized for a hardtail, the only realistic reasoning behind TA anything rigid is wheel interchange -ability.

    That said..... If you are doing strange things with tire size and or width / offset / chainstay length there's something to be said for actually wider hubs (I50mm/170mm OLD) for drivetrain purposes and or wheel strength purposes. But not for rear triangle stiffness. If wheel stiffness is a big thing for ya, build into a bolt-on SS cassette hub like a King / American Classic / Profile / DT Swiss and build a stronger wheel, the frame is likely not the limiting factor.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

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