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  1. #1
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    FOES over an IBIS?

    Hello riders,

    Have any of you FOES owners ridden an IBIS Mojo and decided to get a FOES? Just looking for opinions. i am down to these two bikes. FXR 2.1 or Mojo. I will put this subject over at the IBIS side to see why they chose that bike over this bike. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    from my experiance, when i went to get a new bike it was between the foes fxr and the mojo, a buddy of mine had a brand new 2008 fxr and it is a bad a$$ bike but it just seemed a litte on the sluggish side while climbing but on the decents it was magic. then i had the opportunity to demo a mojo.......holy cow.....i could not believe how good the mojo felt up and down and now with the new LOPES link installed it's even better if that's even possible. i love foes bikes i still have my 99 dhs tube dh bike and i love it. so bottom line is you can't go wrong with either bike but deff demo both and then deside.

  3. #3
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    Damn, I just checked in from the Ibis forum to see what the replies here are and this is a pretty one sided debate. Just as it should be. The FXR doesn't even compare and no one has even mentioned the weight diff.
    Keep the Country country.

  4. #4
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    If you think that's one-sided, look at the threads about the Lopes Links damaging frames, and how they are defending Ibis in rushing them to market. Hell, Ibis even went up and first said it was bad installation technique by the customers. There's a lot of bad info there and these choices aren't cheap. I'd spend some time testing the forums, knowing who to believe, research, and compare geos and other factors.

    Can you test ride?

  5. #5
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    You will probably find a few posts in this Foes thread about my time with an FXR.
    The Curnutt is not too everyones taste and the weight difference is quite market esp if you have the coil option. The FXR was beautiful but the ride did not match its good looks. I found that climbs were pretty swift and thats one areae where the Curnutt does excel. Upwards traction is very impressive.

    My Mojo isn't as stiff and needs a bit more body english to keep it straight sometimes but the overall effect is great. A very fun bike to ride. The problem for me was that the FXR ought to have been plusher for a 6" plus bike, but the Curnutt makes the ride very firm, harsh even. If you are choosing between the two,

    It comes down to this:
    Trail bike/ allmountain go for the Mojo

    Allmountain/ Lite freeride go for the FXR but don't try to make the FXR too light as you will defeat the purpose.

    If I had my Foes time again I would have gone for the 5" one instead

  6. #6
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    Interesting and informative post from above...
    Though for 09 you have the option to go for an air curnutt which I'd imagine
    is much more "plush" then the coil..2:1 geometry is what truly makes a Foes
    frame "stiff"..Some people love it, some hate it...Which is why someone who likes
    Foes, will usually continue buying their frames.

    In the real world, I'd say go for the Mojo..Not only will you save a bunch of weight, but
    the bike will feel much more responsive..My riding buddy has an 08 Mojo SL which indeed has seen 5'+ drops, and the only thing preventing him to go bigger was botteming out his rear shock..Strength is truly not an issue with the Mojo, as even Lopes has DH raced with it..After riding the bike myself, it is indeed a very plush bike and "snappy", which also means you should be more aware of on coming terrain at high speeds as it could get squirly--but that also depends on the rider and what bike they are used to..

    Though with all of that said, I will be ordering a Foes FXR in the near future, but that's only because I'm particularly biased towards Foes, and I'm also a big fan of the 2:1..Which can only be appreciated on a precarious ride..Meaning, I feel more confident on a Foes then any other bike I have riden---but that is truly personal preference..I feel with the average rider, a Mojo would make any mountain biker happy.

    Hope that helps!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rider
    and I'm also a big fan of the 2:1..
    Why?

    Other bikes are far plusher/have better suspension without it.

    2:1 means seal and bearing drag will have a more detrimental effect on the suspension (leverage works both ways). It essentially magnifies those things, as well as the SPV "platform".

    It requires a massive (heavy) shock.

    For coil springs, it requires extremely small incriments to be "tuned" correctly to the rider. While you can get away with 400, 450, 500, 550 (50lb incriments) with a more normal 2.5-2.8:1 leveraged bike, to be properly speced you'd need something like 15lb incriments, which is extremely difficult to make, maybe impossible (normal spring tolerances are at least that great). You'd need 200, 215, 230, 245lb springs.

    I can't really think of one good reason, the curnut shock doesn't even work like a traditional shock in terms of damping, so it can't be for that reason, not to mention shocks like avalanche have bigger diamater pistons than fox and much greater fluid volume for damping/heat dissapation.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #8
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    Yeah, Foes is the only one pushing 2:1. Everyone else, including motocross, has found that 3:1 works just fine. Sounds like a marketing gimmick to make their bikes stand out.
    Keep the Country country.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pOOky mALibOO
    Hello riders,

    Have any of you FOES owners ridden an IBIS Mojo and decided to get a FOES? Just looking for opinions. i am down to these two bikes. FXR 2.1 or Mojo. I will put this subject over at the IBIS side to see why they chose that bike over this bike. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.
    I would take the Foes FXR over the Ibis Mojo. It is more plush, stiffer, can take more abuse and handles better.

    Foes have low bottom brackets and slack angles, which I really like. The Curnutt shocks ride great.

    I recently retired my 4 year old FXR and initially replaced it with an Ibis Mojo. The Mojo really doesn't compare. The Mojo would make a good XC bike - but if you're really using the travel, you'll be riding too hard for this bike. Frankly, the Mojo is fragile, and the geometry not suited to hard riding.

    After Mojo I got a Turner RFX - which I am still riding. The turner is good, but it does not have the low bb like the Foes. Also, the shock choices on the RFX don't compare to the curnutt.

    If I had my druthers, I'd be back on a Foes, but for now the turner seems to do the job.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    Frankly, the Mojo is fragile.
    Fragile as in you broke it or have seen one break? I've been searching for pics or a story of a broken Mojo.
    Keep the Country country.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    Fragile as in you broke it or have seen one break? I've been searching for pics or a story of a broken Mojo.
    I don't feel there is a need to re-hash stuff that's already been covered by others. Suffice it to say, I had a Mojo for three weeks and determined it was not the right bike for me. Then I got a Turner and it still doesn't have the geometry or climbing ability the Foes has.

    Foes makes some really nice bikes. DW link is not the end all, be all.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    Yeah, Foes is the only one pushing 2:1.
    Not exactly true. At least Corsair Bikes has designs around 2:1. They are still a bit unproven but show a lot of promise.

    Foes bikes are stiff, not so sure you could say that about the Mojo.

  13. #13
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    Sorry, didn't mean to rehash something I missed. It's just that everyone talks about Mojos like they're bomb proof but usually if you look hard enough you can find a broken anything. I'm just curious what it takes to kill a Mojo.
    Keep the Country country.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    Sorry, didn't mean to rehash something I missed. It's just that everyone talks about Mojos like they're bomb proof but usually if you look hard enough you can find a broken anything. I'm just curious what it takes to kill a Mojo.
    Does it mean anything Mojo owners cover their bikes in protective tape? I can't get over this. I don't want a bike that is this fragile.

    Also, the angles are all wrong for a 6" travel fork. Raises the BB too high.

    The Ibis is super flexy. Probably the most flexy bike I've ever ridden - and I've ridden quite a few.

    Combine it all together and it's the wrong bike for me.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    I would take the Foes FXR over the Ibis Mojo. It is more plush, stiffer, can take more abuse and handles better.

    Foes have low bottom brackets and slack angles, which I really like. The Curnutt shocks ride great.

    I recently retired my 4 year old FXR and initially replaced it with an Ibis Mojo. The Mojo really doesn't compare. The Mojo would make a good XC bike - but if you're really using the travel, you'll be riding too hard for this bike. Frankly, the Mojo is fragile, and the geometry not suited to hard riding.

    After Mojo I got a Turner RFX - which I am still riding. The turner is good, but it does not have the low bb like the Foes. Also, the shock choices on the RFX don't compare to the curnutt.

    If I had my druthers, I'd be back on a Foes, but for now the turner seems to do the job.
    No argument on the lateral stiffness, the Foes bikes have to be close to number one. I won't make any outrageous claims like Derby to say any particular manufacturer makes the "stiffest" bikes, but the Foes are in a catagory well above Ibis as far as lateral stiffness is concerned, in fact DW has stated that decent lateral stiffness is very important for his design, wierd to see that Ibis designed the bike to be pretty flexy in the first place.

    Anyhow, yeah, the shock choices on the RFX don't compare to the Curnutt. On the RFX you have your choice of many superior shocks, and from owning a curnutt I'd know that shock size, leverage ratio, and cost do not gaurentee a good performing shock. The RFX can take Avalanche DHS and Chubbie, CCDB, Rocco, Vanilla R (could be pushed), DHX (could be pushed), the old style vanilla/RC, Romic, Manitou evolver/swinger/metal/etc, RP3, RP23, Float, DHX Air, and so on. Some of these weren't the greatest products, but a lot of these vastly outperform the Curnutt. Why do you need to ride harsh suspension to have other good traits? It's a rationalization I never understood, and to this day I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it was that the curnutt did "well", except ride harshly in the rough and not suck up the small bumps. If someone wants to say that it "doesn't bob", well I guess, but I never really understood why that was so "important", my RFX has gobs more traction than my FXR ever did (similer travel amounts). With an avalanche shock my "bob" is very minimal; I've not really been able to detect any, but then again the avalanche allows for tuning of low and high speed compression circuts, far more advanced tuning options than a curnutt. Plenty of bikes these days do not bob much, and they don't ride like jackhammers.

    The whole curnutt concept is flawed. SPV increases compression damping to provide a "platform". Any damping that is greater than is required for bump absorption is going to make the suspension perform poor. That is exactly what SPV is though, extra damping that will prevent pedaling forces from compressing the suspension, so on each bump and suspension cycle this has to be overcome, and everything below the threshold is "ignored", not only does this make it very harsh early in the travel, it also makes for some screwy damping curves. It can't move fast enough during the fast hits, as there's always a little initial "spike". The whole thing behind the DW link is that it eliminates all the extra-compression damping required by most designs (to prevent transfer of forces/bob/squat), it's a huge improvement over already decent linkage bikes, but stacked up against something as overdamped as the curnutt it's simply a different world.

    The Mojo vs the FXR isn't the greatest comparission in the world. You've got poor suspension (especially for the price) vs flex, but with the lopes-link the mojo can probably be dealt with. As you say, it shouldn't be made out to be something it's not, no matter what Derby says, so if you're looking for a bike like the FXR or RFX, get one of those types of bikes, not the Mojo, as it's not really in the same class. Otherwise, for a slightly shorter travel bike I'd probably get the Mojo between the two, the suspension is just that much better, but yeah, it's not the best comparission.

    Due to what is out on the market (and what is not), I'd suggest looking at the Pivot bikes, exceptional lateral stiffness combined with exceptional suspension. Realistically there are a lot of better choices out there when you add up all the advantages and disadvantages of each bike.
    Last edited by Jayem; 01-23-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No argument on the lateral stiffness, the Foes bikes have to be close to number one. I won't make any outrageous claims like Derby to say any particular manufacturer makes the "stiffest" bikes, but the Foes are in a catagory well above Ibis as far as lateral stiffness is concerned, in fact DW has stated that decent lateral stiffness is very important for his design, wierd to see that Ibis designed the bike to be pretty flexy in the first place.

    Anyhow, yeah, the shock choices on the RFX don't compare to the Curnutt. On the RFX you have your choice of many superior shocks, and from owning a curnutt I'd know that shock size, leverage ratio, and cost do not gaurentee a good performing shock. The RFX can take Avalanche DHS and Chubbie, CCDB, Rocco, Vanilla R (could be pushed), DHX (could be pushed), the old style vanilla/RC, Romic, Manitou evolver/swinger/metal/etc, RP3, RP23, Float, DHX Air, and so on. Some of these weren't the greatest products, but a lot of these vastly outperform the Curnutt. Why do you need to ride harsh suspension to have other good traits? It's a rationalization I never understood, and to this day I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it was that the curnutt did "well", except ride harshly in the rough and not suck up the small bumps. If someone wants to say that it "doesn't bob", well I guess, but I never really understood why that was so "important", my RFX has gobs more traction than my FXR ever did (similer travel amounts). With an avalanche shock my "bob" is very minimal; I've not really been able to detect any, but then again the avalanche allows for tuning of low and high speed compression circuts, far more advanced tuning options than a curnutt. Plenty of bikes these days do not bob much, and they don't ride like jackhammers.

    The whole curnutt concept is flawed. SPV increases compression damping to provide a "platform". Any damping that is greater than is required for bump absorption is going to make the suspension perform poor. That is exactly what SPV is though, extra damping that will prevent pedaling forces from compressing the suspension, so on each bump and suspension cycle this has to be overcome, and everything below the threshold is "ignored", not only does this make it very harsh early in the travel, it also makes for some screwy damping curves. It can't move fast enough during the fast hits, as there's always a little initial "spike". The whole thing behind the DW link is that it eliminates all the extra-compression damping required by most designs (to prevent transfer of forces/bob/squat), it's a huge improvement over already decent linkage bikes, but stacked up against something as overdamped as the curnutt it's simply a different world.

    The Mojo vs the FXR isn't the greatest comparission in the world. You've got poor suspension (especially for the price) vs flex, but with the lopes-link the mojo can probably be dealt with. As you say, it shouldn't be made out to be something it's not, no matter what Derby says, so if you're looking for a bike like the FXR or RFX, get one of those types of bikes, not the Mojo, as it's not really in the same class. Otherwise, for a slightly shorter travel bike I'd probably get the Mojo between the two, the suspension is just that much better, but yeah, it's not the best comparission.

    Due to what is out on the market (and what is not), I'd suggest looking at the Pivot bikes, exceptional lateral stiffness combined with exceptional suspension. Realistically there are a lot of better choices out there when you add up all the advantages and disadvantages of each bike.
    I think it's possible your curnutt sucked. I've read from several others who's curnutts sucked initially, but had Foes customize them and ended up extremely satisfied.

    Or not. I know you don't like the Foes shocks and I don't intend to change your mind about it. Mine have always been very , very good.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Why?
    Is that a serious question?

    Why do some people buy Cheverolet cars, some Ford?

    Here, try reading my post again..Being 102 years old may affect your vision
    and memory..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rider
    I'm also a big fan of the 2:1..Which can only be appreciated on a precarious ride..Meaning, I feel more confident on a Foes then any other bike I have riden---but that is truly personal preference..

    Bottem line, we like what we like, that's why there is more then 1 bike company with more then 1 innovation. Go pound sand

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    The FXR is stiffer.

    The Curnutt is not for everyone and I dispute the position that some sucked initially then were tuned blah blah blah. Bollocks. Why should I have to send a brand new damper back to the states to be setup correctly. The issue is that the spv has to be firm because there is next to no damping when you blow through it. I tried loads of different springs.

    I would have loved to have had the Air Curnutt which was what I ordered. Low and behold a steel spring one arrived.

    The FXR I rode may have been improved in the 08 guise, but that was a really shitty thing to do. The FXR 2.1 changed three times in three years. It would appear that they screwed it up initially. I was not amused to find an 08 vsn arrive on the scene so shortly after buying mine.

    The frames are gorgeously made.

    The ride ought to be plusher for a 6" plus bike.

    I didn't want to sell mine, I was about to send my shock away but it then occured to me that its too darn heavy to be an all mountain/trail bike and I wasn't gaining the benefit of the extra travel.

    This is in now way intended as a slagging match, simply my experience having owned both. As for a Mojo being fragile and needing to be covered with tape.. I helicoptered the FXR to protect the paint too. Mudding shorts, knee pads etc all conspire to trash finishes.

  19. #19
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    I would have loved to have had the Air Curnutt which was what I ordered. Low and behold a steel spring one arrived.
    That really sucks. Did the distro or Foes fix that mistake or screw you over?

    I like the frames from Foes, but I certainly would not get that moto-sized Curnutt. The basic CV/T-SPV tech in there is not to my liking. Now what's interesting is somehow, Manitou revised the SPV in those new IS shocks and they're getting good initial reviews. Personally, I would get a Foes with an Avy or DHX, but perhaps it's not optimal either.

  20. #20
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    No the shock wasn't replaced. I was given the option of waiting or taking the one that had arrived. Since I had waited 3 months already, waiting another 3 was too much...esp since I had paid 2/3 up front ( my decision rather than a demand from importer as I wanted to make sure that I didn't spend what I had got for my old frame).

    I really wanted to like the bike. I have an avalanche on my Brooklyn Machine works, so I can very close to doing that. My only issue ( weight aside) was the shock. The guys at Foes told me to buy an air! Then what, where the hell do you sell a 12" shock! In the end I persisted for 12months.

    When I demo'd the Ibis I went "why the hell have I been humping a 33lb bike aroundall this time". Whilst the Mojo isn't as stiff, some may say flexy, I have never once been aware of it on the trail. I will be fitting a 10mm rear hub. I noticed a hug difference when I did the same on the Foes so I'm sure that will be a step up on the Ibis.

    In the end, demoing a bike is way more important than listening to all the biased nonsense to be found on forums, ( mine included).

    I made a decision based on my experince with the Foes, to note buy anything I hadn't ridden. I was interested in the Blur LT2 but it was such a faff to get one to try that it didn't make my short list. So many nice rigs out there, and although it wasn'yt to my taste, the FXR is a really nice bike.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Manitou revised the SPV in those new IS shocks and they're getting good initial reviews.
    Supposedly the new "swingers" are nothing like those old ones that were basically clones of the 5th element. I don't know if the SPV is "gone", but evidently there's a traditional shim-stack piston in there, I'd imagine the same thing is true with their newer air shocks.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    I recently retired my 4 year old FXR...
    traitor...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaritaman
    traitor...
    You'll be happy to know that I just ordered a new 2009 FXR to replace the Turner RFX which replaced the Ibis.

    I was able to borrow an FXR from Wrench Science for a day and take it on some good downhill runs and steep climbs. The bike rocks. It is so confidence inspiring. The geometry with slack angles and low bb, combined with the Curnutt make the bike haul ass - plain and simple.
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  24. #24
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    ... and if we just ...

    FXR all day long over the Mojo! I guess it really depends on your riding style and terrain. One thing I can say about the FXR is that the faster you ride it the better it works which can be good and bad lol.
    It's Better To Die On Your Feet Than To Live On Your Knees. (Emiliano Zapata)

  25. #25
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    Eric B has a good point. at low speeds the Curnutt on my 06 FXR is pretty harsh, compared to the DHX 5 Coil on my Heckler. however, when you're really ripping along on the rough stuff the Curnutt performs admirably, easily on par with the DHX, and the overall stiffness of the FXR (over the Heckler) is truly confidence inspiring. the overbuilt FXR frame, coupled with the Curnutt, is really designed to take you to the next level of knarliness, if you got the balls to handle it.

    oh yeah, the FXR is a lil bit heavier than my Heckler (i think about 17.5kg vs 16.5kg) but climbs like a demon. these bikes have very similar travel, similar geometry, so i can only really put the superior climbing ability of the FXR down to the Curnutt. and it's more fun on the way down too, soaks up the big stuff like nothing else.

    this thread has piqued my interest regarding the Ibis Mojo. i've never really investigated them before, i suppose the look of them kinda turned me off. i see they're now made of carbon, mated to a DW linkage. i'm sure this manufacturing technology has come a long way in recent times, but i definately would not use this bike for anything but pure XC. my FXR excells on rutted, rooty, f&cked-out firetrails littered with big rocks and little boulders. i'd be paranoid about the Mojo's metal linkage potentially de-coupling mid ride from the carbon frame should the suspension get overly stressed.
    Last edited by m0ngy; 03-15-2009 at 06:04 PM.
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