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  1. #1
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    FOES mono 2.1 lighter in 2010

    Few pics from Pinkbike. These pictures from Eurobike in Germany first days of Sept.
    2 pounds less in 2010.


    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3958237/

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3958244/

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3958238/

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3958241/
    Last edited by missfoesquebec; 09-22-2009 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    A week goes by and no one has any comments on the new Mono? MissFoes, are you tempted to pick up a new frame next year?

    I do know I've been sitting on the fence between something a little more park focused like a Santa Cruz Driver8 or just going all out full DH, and the only bike on that shortlist is the Mono. I was leaning Driver8, but now the idea of a slightly lighter Mono using more conventional parts (hub, chain guide) makes the decision harder!

    Chris.

  3. #3
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    Few things to think about:

    Do you want to keep the same bike for years?
    If yes. Foes Mono is the answer. At least 5 years avant-garde (I mean technological advantage over the others) and very well built. The frame and shock are built like Hulk! It helps self-confidence!

    Do you need best bike for technical trail and very easy to pedal?
    Curnut shock are very buseful on flat not bottoming out. Also the best on near death trail. You will survive these with Foes. The air 2.1 shock is awesome. I follow guys 20 younger because I have the Foes-Curnut advantage. They don't understand why. I know. Keep the secret!

    Do you want a very light bike and ready to buy a new one each year?
    Foes Mono might be not the good choice.

    The others are sleeping. Maybe they just wake up with Interbike Las Vegas going on.
    Cheers.
    Mylene

  4. #4
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    A Mono certainly wouldn't be my first Foes, and I am a very firm believer in the latest Curnutt Air shocks. Neither the Driver8 or the Mono are exactly light, but I do expect 4 to 5 years out of the bike. I'm not interested in the disposable DH (READ: Trek Session 88, FRO, etc).

    It's the idea to blitz the old school double black trails off the top of Garbonzo that keeps me coming back to the Mono. I'll be interested to see if anyone gets their hands on a new one and reports in on it.

    Chris.

  5. #5
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    Also gettin' flat tire everydays is not cool.
    Longer shock like Curnut 2.1 help very much to avoid that.
    How much rider I saw in Deux-Alpes few weeks ago the bike upside down to repair flat tire.
    Quiet the same in 2007 at World Cup in Mont-Sainte-Anne near Quebec City.
    I got top 20 mostly because others were on flat tires on finals. The Curnut advantage no question. Doing that at 50 years old is still a world record (kind of).

  6. #6
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    Some vids from Interbike 2009. Sub 40 pound DHS with Foes' own fork. I think the decision just got a whole lot easier.

    http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/featu...,520/sspomer,2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXICFV-Y0zU

  7. #7
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    Mono 2:1

    Looking for a new bike! The Mono has my interest! Can you tell me the diff in rides between the air and coil curnutt? Is there a bike out there that you can compare the ride to? Is the travel plush, or just lots of it? Does the shock ramp up at the end of its travel? How does it ride over the roots and big drops?
    Thanks for your info

  8. #8
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    Most shocks are 1 inche of travel equal 3 inches of suspension.
    3 inches of travel= 9 inches.

    Curnut Porgressive: Coil TI or air? No problem because of a longer travel of the shocks.
    Standard coil: a little bit stiffer. The metal is not reacting like Ti.
    Titanium: better and lighter. Some thing it's too slow to react sticking on the ground. Anyway more aline that standard coil.
    Air: very alive! You can jump almost everythings. Better and sometime cheaper than 2 titanium coils.
    Only BOS (France) shock might come close of Curnut. Just close not equal...

  9. #9
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    thanks

    Thanks for the info, I think I was talking to you before about the mono! Is there a bike out there that you could compare the ride of the Mono 2:1 to? Is it a plush ride?
    Thanks again!!

  10. #10
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    I don't know the other bikes.
    You can't bottom up with these shocks.
    Each year others & friends change their bikes. I can't understand that. I don't need to do it! The 2010 is looking good. Can I resist???
    I own 2 mono 2.1 2006 and one mono DHS 2002.
    Never broken.
    Always nice on tough trails.
    Stable at speed.
    Sharp edges on corner.
    The missing point for Foes is no pro team on World Cup and US Norba since 2004.
    Some marketing weakness for sure.
    But the technical R&D is a way up on XXI.

    The 2010 FXR look nice too for a mix of adventure (up and down of the mountains)...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by missfoesquebec
    Only BOS (France) shock might come close of Curnut. Just close not equal...
    I gotta disagree, the curnut technology makes it hard to have a shock that reacts as well as the BOS, or pretty much any shim-stack based shock like Fox, Elka, Avalanche, and so on. Curnut CV/T technology means a certain amount of force is required to initiate movement, which means more of the bump is transfered to you, it also makes it hard to react at high speed. With such a low leverage rate, these traits are also amplified. Roots and rocks at speed was exactly the situation where my Curnut was poor. I had it checked out twice and rebuilt once. Going through said rocks/roots it was like a jackhammer, when I switched the shock for a DHX 5.0, it was much better. When I finally got a linkage-controlled bike with a decent shock it was much better still (I had linkage bikes before, but I wanted to try out the Foes and see how good it would perform, I also has the misconception that the "huge" curnut shock must be good). While they tried to develop this technology for Mx, pretty much no one will touch it. It does make poor suspension designs pedal "better", and it does allow for progressive damping to resist bottoming on falling-rate bikes, but it also can't react as a more speed-sensitive damper can. Curnut coil shocks are HUGE, but that big size doesn't translate to better features or travel, as it does with my Avalanche shocks. On low-speed stuff the curnut does just fine, bottom-resistance (drops are low shaft-speed events) and chassi stability, but you can say the same of any modern shock with a decent low-speed circut, like Cane Creek's DB, Fox RC4, Avalanche Woodie/Chubby/DHS, Elka Stage 5, etc. The air curnut is supposed to be a decent improvement, although is still going to be bound to some of these limitations. Another problem with the coil curnut is you need something like 25 or 15lb spring incriments to tune it correctly to the rider due to the low leverage, and spring manufacturing tolerance simple isn't that precise for mtb springs. Low leverage doesn't have many benefits, obviously "too high" is also bad, as it puts excessive pressure on the components.

    If Foes bikes retained their amazing lateral rigidity and used a modern linkage-system with a modern shock, they'd rule the world. They don't need any fancy virtual-pivot system if they're running one ring up front like a DH/FR bike. I think Foes has invested so much into the curnut stuff though that they really can't afford to lose all that time/money. Either in reality or perception.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #12
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    I never saw something like that on Foes threads all around the planet. Curnut bad on everything. Very funny!

  13. #13
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    I've seen quite a few posts like this. I had a curnutt coil-over on my last DHS and have to say it's the best shock I've ever used. They behave completely differently to just about any other shock out there.

    The curnutt shocks tend to polarise people - if you're used to a traditional shim-stack damper which 'smooths out' everything then the curnutt will probably feel weird/wrong. They don't tend to respond well to smaller, low-speed bumps (they will always fail the 'carpark squish test'). However, when the shock is set up properly, the harder you push it the better it feels. It's almost as if there's a critcal level of force required for them to wake up and get interested.

    The harshness/feedback that a lot of people complain about I have actually found to be really useful. The shock puts through just enough feedback for you to feel what the bike is doing but still keeps you pinned.

    I can't compare the curnutt to a BOS or Avalanche, but I prefer the curnutt to every shim-based damper I've ever used.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by missfoesquebec
    I never saw something like that on Foes threads all around the planet. Curnut bad on everything. Very funny!
    You can see it just one post above. Nearly everyone with a curnut "rationalizes" the harsh/choppy action. Wouldn't it be great to not have that and all the other benefits? It's possible.


    Plus, I didn't say it was bad on everything. It pedaled fine in terms of bob resistance, although didn't have as much traction uphill as my linkage bikes. It took "low speed" events just fine, which means jumps, drops, and so on. On the other hand, it's usually not that hard to have decent low-speed performance, but there was more chassi stability in terms of not wallowing and blowing through the travel. To be fair though, my Avalanche shocks have as good or better low-speed traits while simply blowing away the curnut in every other situation. Except for Avalanche, who did this a few years ago, we have only recently seen shocks with decent high and low speed compression circuts, ones that you can adjust without turning the other into crap. The RC4, Push MX, Cane Creek DB and Elka to again name a few. Previous to this, we thought we had to accept the limitations caused by SPV stuff like Progressive and Curnut. When the DHX came out it did a good job of retaining some of the SPV characteristics without as much harsh travel, but the low-speed circuts were still pretty useless.
    Last edited by Jayem; 01-17-2010 at 10:06 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    You can see it just one post above. Nearly everyone with a curnut "rationalizes" the harsh/choppy action. Wouldn't it be great to not have that and all the other benefits? It's possible.
    What other stable platform bikes are you referring to?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    You can see it just one post above. Nearly everyone with a curnut "rationalizes" the harsh/choppy action. Wouldn't it be great to not have that and all the other benefits? It's possible.
    Horses for courses ...

    personally, I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my curnutt air equipped 2010 mono, hopefully some time in the next couple of weeks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypoxic
    Horses for courses ...

    personally, I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my curnutt air equipped 2010 mono, hopefully some time in the next couple of weeks.
    Frame only or did you also take one of the new Foes build kits?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissa
    Frame only or did you also take one of the new Foes build kits?
    Frame only. Already have an XTD fork. Sorted out my own build kit for it. It's gonna be sick!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissa
    What other stable platform bikes are you referring to?
    Jeeze, anything with a 5th element, older swinger, or curnut for the most part. I also had a 5th element on a bike, in addition, 4 DHXs, the DHX also has the same technology, called the "boost valve", but they use it for the purpose in the description, as a "boost" to add some position-sensitive damping, while retaining speed-sensitive damping at the main piston. Even so, when you crank up the pressure it gets pretty harsh due to all the resistance to the damping and excessively progressive damping. The 5th element and curnut could be said to "over-rely" on this technology, but it still restricts the flow on even the DHX in some situations. The low-speed adjustments on the DHX were pretty poor as well, but that has been addressed with stuff like the RC4. Let me tell you that real low and high speed circuts make a huge difference.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "stable platform bikes", there's no such thing. There are only bikes that have stable-platform shocks on them, usually refered to as SPV or CV/T on the shock. These tend to be falling-rate single-pivot designs, as the increasing resistance doesn't usually work all that well on linkage bikes, plus the linkage bikes can just use regular shocks. If these bikes didn't have SPV shocks on them (I've tried this too) you'd have to use a MUCH higher spring rate than normal, have very harsh initial travel, or use a lower spring rate and deal with excessive bottoming. This is in contrast to a linkage bike that can use a lower spring rate, as well as shocks from many different manufacturers.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I'm not sure what you mean by "stable platform bikes", there's no such thing.
    Jayem,

    Ok, maybe my question wasn't clear. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Nearly everyone with a curnut "rationalizes" the harsh/choppy action. Wouldn't it be great to not have that and all the other benefits? It's possible.
    How is it possible? What stable platform system or anti-pedal-bob design succeeds where Foes falls down?

    Chris.

  21. #21
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    If you have a single-ring bike, like a DH bike or FR bike, you don't need an "anti-bob" platform. You can place the pivot at a spot where it will intersect the chainline correctly to provide good pedaling traits. It becomes more problamatic when you have two or three rings and need to try and tune the proper behavior into the bike with those varying chainlines. Most of those bikes make pretty big compramises. The "virtual" pivot type bikes (not VPP specifically, but things like horst-links, dw link, vpp, whatever niner's system is called, etc) allow for this without having to make big sacrifices. Something like a high-pivot heckler will stiffen a lot under pedaling forces to help prevent bob, which will cause it to be pretty harsh in bumps while pedaling, yet if you take a much lower bike and give it the compression damping it needs to resist chassi movement and pedal decently(like a Foes) it ends up also being somewhat harsh, but for other reasons. There is kind of a "middle ground", where you don't have to have excesive compression damping yet the bike pedals decently, but this is still a compramise, maybe a little "harsher" still or maybe it bobs a little.

    There's also a difference between some "bob" and actually robbing energy. You can have some chassi movement without much energy loss, but for some people the visual aspect of this is too much to overcome. On the other hand, it should be a relationship of how much energy goes into pedaling and how much of that moves the bike forward. One aspect that I'm noticing more is how certain bikes (some of mine as well) "squat" when you try to go up a steep hill. This robs a lot of energy as the rear compresses quite a bit, yet on level ground the bike accelerates with little bob or loss of energy.

    While I'm touching on different subjects and bikes, my main point is that you can "have your cake and eat it too" to a much higher extent than a few years ago. Most foes have a pretty low pivot, without any or much rearward movement, this is going to make them somewhat harsh to square edged impacts. Then you have the shock that has excessive compression damping. Any damping above and beyond what is required to absorb a bump is going to make the bike harsher on said bumps. Then you have the progressive damping that adds more resistance through the travel, you can argue it all you want, but the idea is largely unproven. I can't imagine how you'd have enough rebound force in very choppy terrain if there isn't any "real" progression (just damping progression), which could easily lead to excessive harsh travel in rock gardens and repetative fast hits. Some of the foes have higher pivots like the DH bike, so this isn't across the board, but it still suffers from the shock technology. ALL of these things have been addressed by manufacturers and most bikes will outperform any Foes bike in terms of suspension. They may stand on their own in terms of lateral stiffness or geometry, but otherwise they are beat in every suspension catagory by just about everything else. Foes is going out of their way to make something that is never going to perform as well as a basic linkage-actuated single pivot, and the more advanced technologies these days simply outclass them by far.

    Chassi design is also important obviously, I've had crappy FS bikes before, and any design has to be applied and designed correctly in that sense. My foes had a huge long 10mm bolt going through the scissor linkage and shock, and it would always bend. With a bolt that long (at least 4"), you can simply impart a massive amount of leverage on it. It doesn't matter how good the suspension is with something like that holding it back. Another poor one was my azonic saber, pretty crappy bike overall. Decent suspension, but it didn't matter with the lateral flex and same shock-bolt design. Some manufacturers like Iron Horse made some amazing stuff like their DW bikes, yet shoddy quality and so-so pivot designs held them back. So, yes, there are far better bikes, they have to be designed decently, it's not as big a problem today as it used to be. I am refraining from naming any bikes specifically that are "better" than foes though, because when it comes to suspension, most everything I've owned and ridden was better. Some by different amounts.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  22. #22
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    its good to see so much weight coming off of the frame. my 2:1 was 47lbs built up..6 lbs heavier than my Revolt and 7lbs heavier than my RS7

    i have my 2:1 Mono sitting on my wall collecting dust :spam:

  23. #23
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    i have my 2:1 Mono sitting on my wall collecting dust
    Need help to clean dust?
    I'll be happy to do it!
    Great winners both of you: deadatbirth and hypoxic!
    PS. How long I will control myself??????

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by missfoesquebec
    PS. How long I will control myself??????
    Go on, do it! You know you want to ...


  25. #25
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    I Can't with 2 2007 Foes 2.1 (medium and small) and old 2002 mono DHS!
    At first I thought, what the big deal of the 2010?
    Then all the secret improvments made me (almost) change my mind.
    It lost 3 pounds. Still cool lookin' Better shock without bulb valv or 2 springs. A lot easier to built the shock. Chain guide as you wish. Security gards rubber on the frame for excess turning fork.
    Well well well!

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