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  1. #1
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    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible

    This is a hybrid of other methods covered on this forum with a couple of twists. I will focus on mostly what is different about this method. This is shown on Rolling Daryl rim, drilled version and a BFL tire. First, clean and dry everything.

    Seal the rim with duct tape as discussed in other threads. The pics here show a minimal taping method which has pros and cons, but I am back to using full width duct tape now.

    Install a tire and tube and inflate to high pressure and let set, overnight if you are patient enough. This sets the beads and presses the tape down firm. Let the air out, break one bead and remove the tube. Install a strip of weather stripping on the side where you broke the bead.

    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible-20131027_132515.jpg

    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible-20131027_132509.jpg

    The idea is to use the weatherstrip to hold the bead out on the side of the rim, close to the sidewall. Note the trough created between the rim and the strip. I have gotten this method to seal up just as you see it with a floor pump. But the problem is the weatherstrip soaks up a lot of fluid, gets heavy, loses its adhesive, comes loose, and flops around inside the tire as you ride even though the tire is still sealed. Very frustrating. I tried to convince myself it was OK to ride like that, but I decided no way. So I modified the method to cover the strip with more duct tape.

    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible-20131027_133552.jpg

    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible-20131027_133610.jpg

    This layer of tape is not sealing the rim, just holding the weatherstrip in place. I do not think it is possible to get this layer of tape to do both, it always wrinkles too much.

    After that install the valve. In this case a Stan's or similar valve is an option since the valve is only going through the rim and the rimstrip.

    Pull the entire loose bead outside of the rim and push it into the trough from the outside. The weatherstrip/duct tape combo should let the bead fall into place and hold it very close the the rim sidewall.

    From there it is easy to seal with soapy water and a floor pump. Once I am sure the tire is holding air and the other bead has seated, I let the air out and add Stan's fluid or similar through the valve. By adding fluid later the adhesive stays drier longer in the process. With a Stan's shake and a short 15 minute bumpy ride everything seals up tight.

    Update: I rode this for about a month and it lost its seal. I use full width duct tape now, as stated above. The ridge inside was holding but was working its way loose. I am thinking about using caulk to create the ridge now rather than tape and foam. Standby for more updates and experimentation.

    Final note: It would be possible to shape the inside wall of a rim like this, no? If so, I think someone should do it. I wonder if this design is patentable?
    Last edited by DirtDad; 11-09-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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  2. #2
    mighty sailin' man
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    can I ask your thoughts on ride quality since the change to tubeless or is it too soon to tell?
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  3. #3
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    I have been riding the rear like this for a few weeks. Noticeable improvement in traction, esp a low pressures. I ride beach sand. With tubeless I can climb the steep loose sand and travel across loose, coarse sand much better.
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  4. #4
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    I've been thinking about having something like this manufactured for awhile now.
    And I love beer!!

  5. #5
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    Do it. You would only need the extra ridge on one side of the rim, and it could still be single wall. It would be cool the have the ridge visible on the other side of the rim when it was built. Form follows function.

    It would probably add strength to the rim to have the ridge. You can see from my pics that is it still possible to have cutouts and 64H drilling. Consider this to be a proof of concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I've been thinking about having something like this manufactured for awhile now.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad View Post
    Do it. You would only need the extra ridge on one side of the rim, and it could still be single wall. It would be cool the have the ridge visible on the other side of the rim when it was built. Form follows function.

    It would probably add strength to the rim to have the ridge. You can see from my pics that is it still possible to have cutouts and 64H drilling. Consider this to be a proof of concept.
    No more about getting a strip made to retrofit existing Surly rims that would stretch around and remain tight.
    And I love beer!!

  7. #7
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    Re: Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible

    I might have to try this method on my devist8er rear tire. It is so loose, and the sidewall so stiff, that I cannot get it to seal without something like this. 2 failed attempts so far. The Nate on front was gravy.

  8. #8
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    If nothing else there's always the starting fluid and a match trick I used to use on my truck tires to seat the bead back on the rim. I wonder if it would work on this?

    (DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK If you blow yourself up or cause damage to rim, tire, or bodily harm I take NO responsibility at all)

    Just thought I'd add if you do try this take video so we can all see you blowing yourself up. That stuff is entertaining!
    Last edited by outskirtscustoms; 10-28-2013 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by outskirtscustoms View Post
    If nothing else there's always the starting fluid and a match trick I used to use on my truck tires to seat the bead back on the rim. I wonder if it would work on this?

    (DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK If you blow yourself up or cause damage to rim, tire, or bodily harm I take NO responsibility at all)
    That's how I do it! I was actually recording said deed the other night but my son didn't hit the record button in time.
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  10. #10
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad View Post
    This is a hybrid of other methods...

    ...Wrinkles let fluid in.

    Install a tire and tube and inflate to high pressure and let set, overnight if you are patient enough. This sets the beads and presses the tape down firm...

    ...I do not think it is possible to get this layer of tape to do both, it always wrinkles too much.

    ...rimstrip.

    ...seal with soapy water and a floor pump.

    ...By adding fluid later the adhesive stays drier longer in the process.
    My thoughts about this "hybrid" method.

    If you have a lot of wrinkles you should pull the tape tighter.
    Letting the tape sit with a tube in place is a totally unnecessary step.
    I tape over the foam and have no issues with it sealing.
    A couple layers of Gorilla tape are stronger than the original rimstrip.
    You will get a better seal by using Stans instead of soapy water.
    A good tape job has no adhesion problems.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    No more about getting a strip made to retrofit existing Surly rims that would stretch around and remain tight.
    I wonder if you could get a single piece rim strip with raised edge made that shrinks to tighten and seal when heated with a hot air gun.

  12. #12
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    I wonder if you could get a single piece rim strip with raised edge made that shrinks to tighten and seal when heated with a hot air gun.

    This seems like it would be possible if someone felt there was a large enough market for it.

  13. #13
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    Thanks.

    If you pull the tape too tight you compress the foam too much.
    Letting the tape sit with the tube helps a lot.
    If you tape over foam tight enough to seal it flattens the foam.
    Gorilla tape is probably stronger then the rimstrip, I will try that and see if I can pull it down tight enough to seal.
    I use Stan's on the inside and soapy water on the outside, the normal way it is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    My thoughts about this "hybrid" method.

    If you have a lot of wrinkles you should pull the tape tighter.
    Letting the tape sit with a tube in place is a totally unnecessary step.
    I tape over the foam and have no issues with it sealing.
    A couple layers of Gorilla tape are stronger than the original rimstrip.
    You will get a better seal by using Stans instead of soapy water.
    A good tape job has no adhesion problems.
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  14. #14
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    This is an interesting idea, I am planning on converting my 29+ Northpaw rims in a couple of days...this has got me thinking
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad View Post
    Thanks.

    If you pull the tape too tight you compress the foam too much.
    Letting the tape sit with the tube helps a lot.
    If you tape over foam tight enough to seal it flattens the foam.
    Gorilla tape is probably stronger then the rimstrip, I will try that and see if I can pull it down tight enough to seal.
    I use Stan's on the inside and soapy water on the outside, the normal way it is done.
    Whatever, it works every time:

  16. #16
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    I've used a similar method but with a split tube. Large Marge Lite, surly rim strip, a narrow strip of weatherstripping foam ( on both sides ), a split tube over that and a Husker Du covering it all up. Aired up easily and has been in use for a year with no problems.

    I thought about a rubber rim strip like the stans strips from pre-tape days but with ridges molded in to provide the same effect. But setup would be expensive for a limited market.

    I also considered taping down a strip of rubber bulb type weatherstripping under gorilla tape to create to same shelf effect but without the split tube. But I had the foam and it worked so well that I never took it apart again to try it.

    Whoever comes up with carbon fat rims should just mold in that ridge. Save us all lots of trouble. And cost us lots of money.

  17. #17
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    I was talking about something different, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Whatever, it works every time:
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  18. #18
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    I have updated the initial post and I will continue to do it as I update this method so people new to the thread will be up to date.

    1) I use full width tape now. I had a narrow strip lose its grip where the tape overlaps at the end of the strip. The narrow strip can work. It has worked in my other tire for a couple months now, you just have to be super careful with it.

    2) When that happened I got a chance to see how well the tape covered ridge was holding up. It was half untaped and eventually would have worked its way loose and started rolling around inside the tire just like before. My next iteration will involve making a ridge out of caulk applied to the tape. Not to the tire, just the tape. The idea is not to glue to the tire, just create a ridge to hold the bead out. Caulk will not absorb and waste fluid like the foam if there is a problem, and is naturally water and sealant proof.
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  19. #19
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad View Post
    ...My next iteration will involve making a ridge out of caulk applied to the tape...
    Dirt, what type of caulk are you planning on using? A silicon type would work great (if allowed to dry) applied directly to the rim and just tape over it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Dirt, what type of caulk are you planning on using? A silicon type would work great (if allowed to dry) applied directly to the rim and just tape over it.
    That might work, I have not tried that yet. I will save you the effort of one thing though. Don't bother trying to apply caulk or glue to the back of gorilla tape. It is amazing how sticky it is on one side when it is so unsticky on the other.
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  21. #21
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    You might want to try some type of rubber band or belt that you can tighten on to the rim to make this work-

  22. #22
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    On my first tubeless setup, on double walled Weinmann DHL80 80mm rims, I tried a different setup on each side of the rim. On one side, I ran two (stacke don top of each other) Stans rubber strips (the type used for converting normal MTB rims that are not of the tubeless type). On th eother side, I ran two loops of tape double stick foam type, covered by duct tape.
    Both solutions worked great. The foam tape was much lighter, though.
    Rubber rimstrips from a regular type 20'' or 24'' wheel will also work.
    I could then pull the sidewalls/beads out onto the sides and inflate with a mini pump.
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  23. #23
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    I had one tubeless conversion lose its seal because I did not tape all the way across the rim. Upon inspection, the ridge was working, but was also coming loose. So this time for a ridge I am rolled some Gorilla tape with the adhesive facing outward and applied it to the rim:

    Yet another tubeless method - floor pump compatible-roll.jpg

    Duct tape is the only thing I can find that sticks to the back of duct tape well. This set up really easily, but I did have to wrestle the bead around the sticky tape. The tape got a little less sticky because I installed it first as you see, then seated one bead and removed the tube. I rolled regular width duct tape to make the ridge. I think making the ridge with a little less duct tape so the ridge was not so high might be a way to fine tune this.

    This may still work its way loose inside the tire. Time will tell. But this is set up way stickier than the other methods I have tried so far.
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  24. #24
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    Did you try to caulk to the tape?

  25. #25
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    Oh yeah. I slips off like it is on teflon. So does gorilla glue. I am on an adhesive forum to see if I can figure this out. Believe it or not, there are adhesive forums. The people there are just as amazed that there is a fatbike forum, so get over it. Anyway, the people on the adhesive forum point out that the back of tape is designed to be slippery so it does not stick to its own back and you can make it in rolls. Duh. So tape is probably the best thing to stick to the back of tape.
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