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  1. #1
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty

    Got the little beasts in this afternoon.

    Had a few odds and ends to wrap up first, but got right down to business as soon as I could. Laced it up offset, turn out I could have gone symmetrical, which I will before riding it, just because.

    I've had a huge number of folks wanting to know, will the 29x3 Knard/Rabbit Hole fit a Lefty.

    More importantly, will it fit a conventional Lefty, as opposed to the custom offset jobbers required for Fatties.

    Yes, they work. Just fine.

    Clearance may be a tad close for some, but I think most will find it more than adequate, assuming a nice stiff built wheel.

    Travel clearance will need to be on a case by case basis, but the wheel fits the chassis, so the rest is up to ya'll.

    In this case, I used a moldy oldy 130 Max. A to C is 510, Krampus fork A to C is 485. I can squeeze about 90 mm out of it as it sits.

    So on a Krampus frame, you'd be looking at less travel, a 490 A to C fork like a Speed 110 would likely net around 60 to 70 mm. Respectable, and close enough to keep handling neutral.

    Or, toss a longer fork on your bigger bike, and go to town with 100+ using a 140/520 A to C.

    Yee Haw!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-k1.jpg  

    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-k2.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  2. #2
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    Let me be the first one to congratulate you on bringing us the first Lefty Krampus setup !
    Now lets see it on a bike.

  3. #3
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    Bah...

    Lots of room. Ride on!
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  4. #4
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies010 View Post
    Let me be the first one to congratulate you on bringing us the first Lefty Krampus setup !
    Now lets see it on a bike.
    Yeah, 'bout that...

    Got bitten by the Rohloff bug. Hope to have a rideable bike in a week or so.

    I'm sure someone will beat me to the first built position in that time though.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yeah, 'bout that...

    Got bitten by the Rohloff bug. Hope to have a rideable bike in a week or so.

    I'm sure someone will beat me to the first built position in that time though.
    That Rohloff bug is like an epidemic......


    Great job on the fork!
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  6. #6
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    That Rohloff bug is like an epidemic......


    Great job on the fork!
    Yeah, never even felt it coming on. Had a customer walk in last week, and want one on his Moonie I was building. First one I've laid hands on. Once I got through scratching my head on set up, OEM plates, Speed Bones, and really crappy Germanese instructions, it came together, and I was hooked.

    Dammit.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  7. #7
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yeah, 'bout that...

    Got bitten by the Rohloff bug.
    I know what you mean...
    I have one on my Pugs, and i wish i had one on my KM as well.

  8. #8
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    Is this Rohloff krampus lefty going to be your new favorite ride?

    I want to see a picture of that right next to the front of a lefty pug.

  9. #9
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Is this Rohloff krampus lefty going to be your new favorite ride?

    I want to see a picture of that right next to the front of a lefty pug.
    I am blessed with more bikes than one man should own. An affliction perhaps, but hey, I could spend it all on hookers and blow instead...

    Will it be my favorite? Can't say, haven't ridden it yet. Rode the Krampus in Vegas this year, and it was a hoot. Rode the super secret Fox forked version out there too. Much like a Fatty, it benefited from some front squish.

    For snow and sand? No, not my fave, the Form Fatso has that honor. For super gnarly technical terrain perhaps not, my LunchBox is a hard act to follow. For general bombing and single track on dry days? Yeah, this will likely take the crown.

    Too soon to start complaining, but the Knard will be weak in the mud, so it won't win awards there, and we have mud in the northeast. I just know that the good folks at Surly will be coming out with more, increasingly capable treads for the Krampus, just as the Pug used to only have the Endo, yuck.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  10. #10
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    Must resist further following this thread.....I have a Rohloff Moonlander and am seriously considering a Krampus/Rohloff and now a Lefty? I am sunk.

  11. #11
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    Sweet, looking forward to pictures and ride reports.

  12. #12
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    Tire width

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Got the little beasts in this afternoon.

    Had a few odds and ends to wrap up first, but got right down to business as soon as I could. Laced it up offset, turn out I could have gone symmetrical, which I will before riding it, just because.

    I've had a huge number of folks wanting to know, will the 29x3 Knard/Rabbit Hole fit a Lefty.

    More importantly, will it fit a conventional Lefty, as opposed to the custom offset jobbers required for Fatties.

    Yes, they work. Just fine.

    Clearance may be a tad close for some, but I think most will find it more than adequate, assuming a nice stiff built wheel.

    Travel clearance will need to be on a case by case basis, but the wheel fits the chassis, so the rest is up to ya'll.

    In this case, I used a moldy oldy 130 Max. A to C is 510, Krampus fork A to C is 485. I can squeeze about 90 mm out of it as it sits.

    So on a Krampus frame, you'd be looking at less travel, a 490 A to C fork like a Speed 110 would likely net around 60 to 70 mm. Respectable, and close enough to keep handling neutral.

    Or, toss a longer fork on your bigger bike, and go to town with 100+ using a 140/520 A to C.

    Yee Haw!
    What rim width and max tire width is represented in this photo
    Please do tell...

  13. #13
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    Lefty. Krampus. Rohloff. Awesome.

    Sounds like a great ride. Can't wait to see it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I am blessed with more bikes than one man should own. An affliction perhaps, but hey, I could spend it all on hookers and blow instead...
    Love this

    I try to use the same rationale

  15. #15
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    How much is one of these forks and can you buy them off the shelf ready to go or is machining involved? TIA.

  16. #16
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akita man View Post
    What rim width and max tire width is represented in this photo
    Please do tell...
    Pics show a Rabbit Hole and a 29x3 Knard. I personally think any wider, and you'd need to do an offset clamp or a FatLeftyesque alloy non-bonded chassis with a Project 321 clamp set. This allows you to dish the rim over a touch, and re-correct to center with the clamps.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  17. #17
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    How much is one of these forks and can you buy them off the shelf ready to go or is machining involved? TIA.
    As little as a hundred bucks or so for one that works if you buy well, and up to about $1400 MSRP for a current top of the line version.

    Shown with a stock Krampus wheel (Lefty specific hub though) built to conventional spacing and dish, on a normal Lefty fork.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Pics show a Rabbit Hole and a 29x3 Knard. I personally think any wider, and you'd need to do an offset clamp or a FatLeftyesque alloy non-bonded chassis with a Project 321 clamp set. This allows you to dish the rim over a touch, and re-correct to center with the clamps.
    If you measure the max width of the inflated tire...is it the full 3" or more like 2.75" wide?

  19. #19
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    FWIW, on the Rohloff Bug: the Shimano Alfine 11 (introduced fall 2011) is less expensive, easier to mount and configure, and you get a real trigger shifter. 135mm rear axle.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheous View Post
    FWIW, on the Rohloff Bug: the Shimano Alfine 11 (introduced fall 2011) is less expensive, easier to mount and configure, and you get a real trigger shifter. 135mm rear axle.
    My understanding is though, the 11 is a far narrower range overall, than the 14. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong......
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  21. #21
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    way to ruin a Krampus

  22. #22
    Calgon, take me away!
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    This is killer - thanks for posting!

    Now I'm dreaming about a Rabbithole / Knard on a Lefty Supermax 130. Overkill? Yeah, but it should would be fun.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    My understanding is though, the 11 is a far narrower range overall, than the 14. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong......
    The range of a Rohloff is 526%. The range of an Alfine 11 is 409%, so yes the Rohloff has a much wider range.

    The Rohloff is 2-3 times as expensive, but will last 10 times longer. Lots of reports of the Alfine 11 not being so durable.

  24. #24
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith bonedragger View Post
    way to ruin a Krampus
    Since your response lacked much in the way of detail, I'll just assume you meant the fork. I'd then also surmise you think the Fox is a far better choice. If so, we could go back and forth all day, but I'd get bored pretty quickly.

    Meh, haters gonna hate, thanks for dropping by, grab a cookie on your way out.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  25. #25
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    The range of a Rohloff is 526%. The range of an Alfine 11 is 409%, so yes the Rohloff has a much wider range.

    The Rohloff is 2-3 times as expensive, but will last 10 times longer. Lots of reports of the Alfine 11 not being so durable.
    Thanks for the confirmation. And, I'd heard that about the 11 too, durability wise....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  26. #26
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    Mendon

    Put a caliper on that thang...how wide is it really. I measured some Nates (120TPI) at 4.0 and a Bud at 4.25. Mounted on Holy Rolling Darryl Rims.

    Wondering if this Krampus runs more like 2.75? Tires never seem to measure up as wide as advertised.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-tire-width.jpg  


  27. #27
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akita man View Post
    Put a caliper on that thang...how wide is it really. I measured some Nates (120TPI) at 4.0 and a Bud at 4.25. Mounted on Holy Rolling Darryl Rims.

    Wondering if this Krampus runs more like 2.75? Tires never seem to measure up as wide as advertised.
    If it isn't 3", it's like, a mm shy.

    I'm going with three though. Finally, truth in advertising!

    I'm guessing they'll stretch a bit too, and, I'll be setting them up split tube tubeless once I have the bike ready to roll, which does seem to allow for a bit more growth. Currently tubed, and at about 30 PSIm just for info's sake.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  28. #28
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    pretty cool Craig. Interested to see your Rohloff project. I've recently been overcome with the Pinion bug myself and am currently trying to work through some challenges.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    pretty cool Craig. Interested to see your Rohloff project. I've recently been overcome with the Pinion bug myself and am currently trying to work through some challenges.
    I saw that Carver's got a Pinion frame in the works:
    Carver Bikes Innovation for 2013 and beyond ...

  30. #30
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    I've seen that, pretty cool stuff. I think the Pinion stuff will have to fight harder than Rohloff though, in terms of overcoming issues. Proprietary BB shell, and more weight, have no idea on expense, but I'm guessing more there too?

    Relaced the wheel to a symmetrical build, feels better, and spoke length is better.

    FWIW, the numbers I cam up with gave me a fair bit of spoke poke on the disc side. Not sure, but someones numbers are off a bit, not saying thy aren't mine, no idea....

    Just tossing this out as it's germane to the conversation. I guess Rohloff has reworked their acceptable chainring numbers, and now says a 34/16 is acceptable, whereas they've held to a 40t ring minimum before. Cool stuff!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  31. #31
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    Liking the Lefty Krampus. As soon as I can justify bike #5, I'm going to test ride one. I'm pretty sure I know what happens after I test ride one.

    Might have to sell my maverick fork and Lefty the fatbike before I go Krampus. One thing at a time.

    I just heard that about the Rohloff too! Very good news. I've been running 35/16 for a few years on both a 29er and a Fatbike. I was never really worried about it but I'm glad I'm not a Rohloff outlaw any more. Might have to try 34/16 on the 907 though, it just might be the magic gear that eliminates the tensioner.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Mutt View Post
    I've been running 35/16 for a few years on both a 29er and a Fatbike. I was never really worried about it but I'm glad I'm not a Rohloff outlaw any more. Might have to try 34/16 on the 907 though, it just might be the magic gear that eliminates the tensioner.
    Not to derail my own thread but....

    Since you're running a Rohloff, mind if I pick your brain?

    Trying to target the best starter chain ring choice. Do you have any feel for how your choice compares to a conventional 2x9, 22/32 with an 11/34 range wise? Will say the 34 with a stock 16 be lower low end, or higher. High end, not quite as much, or more?

    Thanks.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  33. #33
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    It has been a while since I did all the gearing math to make that choice. I was shooting for coming as close to the 29er setup that it was replacing as possible and the Rohloff approved gearing lost me a few gears on the low end. So I went below their recommendations.

    I think I had a XTR triple with a 22t/34t low gear. The 35/16 feels very close to the low end but it does give some away at the top end. I'd have to look in the parts bin and run Sheldon Browns gear calculator again to know exactly how much.

    34/16 will be good too. If it had been approved before I would have gone there. I like to be able to pedal up anything, and gravity always helps going to other way.

  34. #34
    How much does it weigh?
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    So you're telling me that my Fatback needs a Krampus wheelset for the summer, with any old Lefty I can find?

    Head tube length may be a problem?

  35. #35
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    Rohloff updated their Gear-Meter Table just this fall as I understand it, for a bit lower allowances. Just thought I would share if you haven't seen/reviewed it yet:

    Gear-meter table: www.rohloff.de

    I run my Moonlander 38/16 and it is a great range for me, any lower an I would be falling over or better off walking, higher end was suitable for my road riding experience on the top end.

  36. #36
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    Cool, I'll start with a 35 then, thanks. Don't want to lose too much at top end, sounds like the wall crawler will be close enough for government work.

    Borgshulze, well, need, want, those two paths do come very close to one another, don't they?

    Yes, HT length will be an issue, particularly with the long ones on "snow" bikes like the Fatback etc.

    An older alloy non bonded fork with the Project 321 adapters will gain you a little more room though.

    Jake stopped making them though, and never made tall drop top clamp versions like I have for the Fat Leftys. Un oh, I smell a new sub market for Jake!

    Appreciate the gear chart, ratios make my head swim, but it's good to have anyway!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  37. #37
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    MCS,
    Not to derail your thread but.....

    I've run a Rohloff for more years than I can remember with a 40 & 34/16 combo. I have a double set up at the front and just flick it over with my finger, I normaly stop to do this BTW, as I'm quite attached to my finger.... . In the low range I've towed a BOB with 45 Kg in it through lots of loose sand and I now run it on a fat tyred cargo bike. I've had 80 Kg of crap on that + me! I run the 40 / 16 on the road as I lose ~3 bottom end ratios and gain 3 top end ratios. Bit blurry on this as it's been a real long time since I did the calcs.
    The reason Rohloff don't like one going too low with the gearing is it will shear the shear pins, (because of the torque generated) of which there are 6. These are nyplon and about 5mm in dia x about 9mm (blurry again) long, they connect the guts to the shell from memory. I bought some but have never used them and TBH, haven't seen the bl00dy things for years, dunno where they are!!

    smudge, I'm looking at the Pinion as well, I've tried to purchase just a gearbox but Pinion have written to me saying that here in OZ I won't be able to do so until 2015 or later. I would really like to have one put in a custom fat cargo frame. Peter White has them in the Tout (pronounced tou ) Terrain Panamericana Xplore Pinion, and I'm struggling with the decision of whether to buy a frame and try and have it butchered.... I mean 'crafted' to take fatties, which will be a major, or just take the gearbox off and put it on the cargo bike then swap it over as required.

    BTW, the pinion has 18 gears with a gear jump of 11.5% between gears and a total range of 636%, serious stuff for a cargo bike or if towing. Of course, if your road speed drops off your knackered.

    OK, return to the thread now please.....

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm View Post
    MCS,
    Not to derail your thread but.....
    Derail away. Love having a thread that gets info out there, gets folks talking etc!

    Thank you for the insight. I knew that was their concern, torque based internal damage. I guess they've updated their accepted ratios to accept down to a 34/16 now.

    Glads to hear you have so many miles in adverse conditions, and so few headaches!!

    Double huh? Hmmm, I wanted to go single as run a Tuggnut as opposed to the tensioner Rohloff provides, primarily because I have a ton of bikes with a thingie hanging off that likes to get caught on stuff in the woods, it'd be refreshing to have a SS style set up AND 14 gears to choose from. Hmmm, may have to think on that a bit.....

    Carry on!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  39. #39
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    MCS,

    I run tug nuts on the Pugs with a single up front. It's certainly cleaner but the 'thingy' is only 'tweeny' not like them 'hang down and touch the ground thingies' on a standard setup. I've never damaged mine......touch wood ( saying ththis as I touch my head )

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm View Post
    It's certainly cleaner but the 'thingy' is only 'tweeny' not like them 'hang down and touch the ground thingies' on a standard setup. I've never damaged mine......touch wood ( saying ththis as I touch my head )




    The issue around here in't so much ground or "fixed matter" contact, it's a stick kicking up into the device, getting sucked into the rear cogs, and good night. Mid cage, short. long, they all give way to a nice firm stick.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    So you're telling me that my Fatback needs a Krampus wheelset for the summer, with any old Lefty I can find?

    Head tube length may be a problem?
    Craig you are an alchemist!

    My Fatback and Flash are thumb-wrestling for who gets the new wheels...

    Can I lace up the Rabbit Hole for a standard 110 Lefty, and then later re-dish the wheel to fit a fat Lefty (or would the wheel have to be rebuilt?) Aaaand would a 90 pbr work with Rabbit Hole at all?

    Thanks!

  42. #42
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    Craig I hate you! I want to stop working someday soon-but you keep coming with these cool forks-GReAt job! I'm still hoping to disassemble my Pug this weekend and get it out to paint so I can install my Lefty-I go stare at it every night-looks so nice!!!
    The Pug can run the Rabbit Holes-but I'm assuming I can just swap my RDs in the summer for RHs and use the same Lefty for both? Hope that makes sense-anyways-keep up the great work!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post



    The issue around here in't so much ground or "fixed matter" contact, it's a stick kicking up into the device, getting sucked into the rear cogs, and good night. Mid cage, short. long, they all give way to a nice firm stick.....
    Bugga...

    Relocate......to somewhere stickless....saaay... MOAB.....I'm an ideas man, no doubt about it

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm View Post
    MCS,
    Not to derail your thread but.....

    I've run a Rohloff for more years than I can remember with a 40 & 34/16 combo. I have a double set up at the front and just flick it over with my finger, I normaly stop to do this BTW, as I'm quite attached to my finger.... . In the low range I've towed a BOB with 45 Kg in it through lots of loose sand and I now run it on a fat tyred cargo bike. I've had 80 Kg of crap on that + me! I run the 40 / 16 on the road as I lose ~3 bottom end ratios and gain 3 top end ratios. Bit blurry on this as it's been a real long time since I did the calcs.
    The reason Rohloff don't like one going too low with the gearing is it will shear the shear pins, (because of the torque generated) of which there are 6. These are nyplon and about 5mm in dia x about 9mm (blurry again) long, they connect the guts to the shell from memory. I bought some but have never used them and TBH, haven't seen the bl00dy things for years, dunno where they are!!

    smudge, I'm looking at the Pinion as well, I've tried to purchase just a gearbox but Pinion have written to me saying that here in OZ I won't be able to do so until 2015 or later. I would really like to have one put in a custom fat cargo frame. Peter White has them in the Tout (pronounced tou ) Terrain Panamericana Xplore Pinion, and I'm struggling with the decision of whether to buy a frame and try and have it butchered.... I mean 'crafted' to take fatties, which will be a major, or just take the gearbox off and put it on the cargo bike then swap it over as required.
    OK, return to the thread now please.....

    Al
    Interesting.

    Craig, curious...is your snow bike for snow or do you use it all the time? I've been a Rohloff user for nearly 8 years now. It started life on my 29er but it wasn't my favorite because of the weight, the non king-like engagement and shifting it was like going back to uniglide. I LOVE it on my belt drive commuter though.


    Alan, they're telling me the same thing but they can be purchased for prototype. Conceptually, I like it a lot and think it addresses the over-heavy back end that the Rohloff creates and unless I'm mistaken, it relies on the hub FW mech.
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    [QUOTE=smudge;........unless I'm mistaken, it relies on the hub FW mech.[/QUOTE]

    Smudge,

    Yes, it utilizes a freewheel cassette on the rear, I seem to remember reading and seeing a picture of it somewhere, but can't find it now. EDIT, got it, http://www.pinion.eu/PDF/pinion-prod...alogue-web.pdf , page 3.

    For those that are interesred, here's a link; PINION / P1.18 / DRIVE TECHNOLOGY , down the bottom of the page are further links to interesting info. One page shows the massive gear range.

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

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    alanm, I got the same answer about individual Pinion units.

    #@$*

    One of those would really turn my crank, and I could justify the cost easier than a Rohloff hub. With a gearbox you just switch wheels...
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    ....... With a gearbox you just switch wheels...
    Tell me about it....

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

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    all i'm saying is keep the kooky proprietary dorel stuff on the dorel bikes/childrens' furniture. along with four bold rotors, 1.5" headsets/shocks, electronic lockouts, laptop programmable shocks, and motorcycles. GT/Mongoose/cannondale/schwinn/dyno/powerlite/roadmaster/ironhorse/pacific= junk. Surly=good. keep the junk off the good.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    Craig, curious...is your snow bike for snow or do you use it all the time.
    Well, I use it for all matter of terrain. But seeing as I have that, I doubt the Krampus will see much in the way of snow, or ice riding, as I have a studded 29er for that....

    The rear biased weight is a point I'm curious on, trail time will tell if it bugs me or not. If I just don't like it, Im sure some Krampus owner will want it


    @keith bonedragger, (great screen name BTW) I hear you. You may never have liked Cannondale, and I'm a firm non fan of corporate BS, but all I can say is, the guys who were responsible for Lefty and Headshock development in Bedford PA, still are, and the forks are still assembled by hand, by Americans, in PA. Many parts are still US produced, some aren't.

    All the garbledy**** electronics can take a flying leap (don't even get me started on electronic shifting) .

    Can't blame Cannondale for 1.5, the rest of the DH industry seems to like it.

    Worth noting Surly went to 44mm head tubes for the Krampus, which I'm sure in itself, is a handful of sand in your panties
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  50. #50
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    I'm in love.

    First ride last night, I mean sure, I rode one in Vegas this Fall, but it's always different on your own turf.

    I still need to iron out a few details, but these are some seriously fun bikes.

    The fork gives me 110 mm, thanks to the super short stack height, I did have to dish it over a touch, but with the Project 321 adapters, I can float the wheel around to get it centered. Only needed two nipple turns to bring it to where it needed to be.

    The hub. First time on the trail with one of these, so cool. Kinda hard to grasp till you ride it, but it doesn't shift like a derailleur set up. Pedal pressure creates shifter resistance. Lighten up and it'll shift, but coast for a second, and they bang off really easily, but you're then in the gear, no catching up like if you dumped a few while coasting with a conventional set up. Give and take. It's nice to be able to shift under greater load, I guess it gets better with miles, and I'm sure m y technique will improve as well. Overall, awesome upgrade.

    Tires, well, tough to tell, but they are tubeless. Set them up split tube style, no foam needed, set up super easily. What's curious is tire pressure. Went out with 20, figured that's a bit lower than I run "skinnies" ought to be good. Nope, too firm it seems.

    Let some out on the trail, much better. Came back to the shop afterwards and played some more and discovered, I can run about 8 or 9, just like my fatties. Might be a bit soft for hard charging summer riding, but I have some rail road ties in the lot that are a good log over, bomb over test, and hitting it hard as I can, they barely kiss the rim at those pressures.

    Surly Open bars, 40mm rise/drop. Jury's still out. LIke the look, position is okay, can't quite get the feel I want yet though, time will tell, still playing around.

    Now I want to go ride some more, alas, got work to do.....

    The roll is just unreal, it's like you've got a bunch of fairies with their hands on your back, pushing you along, it just goes and goes and goes.

    Same trail feels less tossy than on my 29ers, and more nimble than on my fattie.

    Damn you Surly, you've created a monster, thank you.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-k3.jpg  

    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-k2.jpg  

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I'm in love.

    First ride last night, I mean sure, I rode one in Vegas this Fall, but it's always different on your own turf.

    I still need to iron out a few details, but these are some seriously fun bikes.

    The fork gives me 110 mm, thanks to the super short stack height, I did have to dish it over a touch, but with the Project 321 adapters, I can float the wheel around to get it centered. Only needed two nipple turns to bring it to where it needed to be.

    The hub. First time on the trail with one of these, so cool. Kinda hard to grasp till you ride it, but it doesn't shift like a derailleur set up. Pedal pressure creates shifter resistance. Lighten up and it'll shift, but coast for a second, and they bang off really easily, but you're then in the gear, no catching up like if you dumped a few while coasting with a conventional set up. Give and take. It's nice to be able to shift under greater load, I guess it gets better with miles, and I'm sure m y technique will improve as well. Overall, awesome upgrade.

    Tires, well, tough to tell, but they are tubeless. Set them up split tube style, no foam needed, set up super easily. What's curious is tire pressure. Went out with 20, figured that's a bit lower than I run "skinnies" ought to be good. Nope, too firm it seems.

    Let some out on the trail, much better. Came back to the shop afterwards and played some more and discovered, I can run about 8 or 9, just like my fatties. Might be a bit soft for hard charging summer riding, but I have some rail road ties in the lot that are a good log over, bomb over test, and hitting it hard as I can, they barely kiss the rim at those pressures.

    Surly Open bars, 40mm rise/drop. Jury's still out. LIke the look, position is okay, can't quite get the feel I want yet though, time will tell, still playing around.

    Now I want to go ride some more, alas, got work to do.....

    The roll is just unreal, it's like you've got a bunch of fairies with their hands on your back, pushing you along, it just goes and goes and goes.

    Same trail feels less tossy than on my 29ers, and more nimble than on my fattie.

    Damn you Surly, you've created a monster, thank you.....
    What, only half a picture? Are you toying with us?

  52. #52
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    Craig, I need to know more about the clamps on the fork. (for some reason the surly site won't load for me right now so i can't quote exact specs on the frame HT length and AC) Tell me about the positioning of the lower clamp. I was under the impression that it needed to be tightened to the fatter part of the lefty near the bottom of the alignment slot. It would appear that you've got it at the slimmed section.

    Are you running it like that to get more AC? OK with the lefty structure? If so, any reason you could not run the bottom clamp at the base of the slot and lower the top clamp to below the upper neck on a different bike?

  53. #53
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    YES

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Tell me about the positioning of the lower clamp. I was under the impression that it needed to be tightened to the fatter part of the lefty near the bottom of the alignment slot. It would appear that you've got it at the slimmed section.

    Are you running it like that to get more AC? OK with the lefty structure? If so, any reason you could not run the bottom clamp at the base of the slot and lower the top clamp to below the upper neck on a different bike?
    A to C for the OE fork is 485.

    The fork is built to 500 A to C, 120mm (26" travel) 90mm (29er travel) and due to the short stack, I popped 2 spacers out, so I have 110 as it sits. Sagged, it comes in right about 485 or so.

    Good eye, you caught me

    A full wrap of beer can under the clamp slid in nicely, and just about fills the difference perfectly. The lower clamp slot shows just a smidge less gap than the top once both are snugged. I could fly my color choice, but opted to run the shim backwards for full aluminum colored stealth mode....

    I'm running it this way to get more travel and clean up the look. The short head tube forces your hand unless you want a bunch of spacers under the clamp, which just looks odd to me.

    Clamps are stock Project 321's.

    Did I mention I love this bike?
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  55. #55
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    Craig, i know you're a lefty guy, but thoughts on the 'secret' fox fork you tried out? limitations?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Good eye, you caught me

    A full wrap of beer can under the clamp slid in nicely, and just about fills the difference perfectly. The lower clamp slot shows just a smidge less gap than the top once both are snugged. I could fly my color choice, but opted to run the shim backwards for full aluminum colored stealth mode....

    I'm running it this way to get more travel and clean up the look. The short head tube forces your hand unless you want a bunch of spacers under the clamp, which just looks odd to me.
    Lots of spacers under the clamp looks odd to me too. On my small Mukluk i would need to use 1.75" underneath, but if i inverted the upper clamp i could get away with about 0.75" . Mocked it up and think I'm going to try that.

  57. #57
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    Looks brilliant
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by tswg View Post
    Craig, i know you're a lefty guy, but thoughts on the 'secret' fox fork you tried out? limitations?
    No limitations per se, but the crown was shaved, which others have done, so it's not a new trick. Not that I'm even really opposed to taking a brand new item and altering it in a way that voids warranty etc. It does sketch me out though, so much is riding on the fact that your front end is going to keep together, so you can too.

    That being said, I'm not a Fox fan. Don't like how they are forever coming up short on the stated travel, don't like how spikey they feel on small stuff, nor the fact that they turn virtually rigid during braking due to bushing bind, Leftys just ruined me that way I guess.

    Many other love them though, so it's valid if you like how they feel, and don't mind carving into a $1000+ fork with a grinding wheel....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  59. #59
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    Have you not ridden a Vanilla?

    My Vanilla 180 and 160 are amazing, little weighty.. but amazing.

    Don't even get me started on how nice a 40 feels

    Friend of mine has a new 36 Float 160, and it rides great too, it's a little less sensitive than the Vanilla, but on the hard hit it ramps up nicely and feels even more bottomless.

    Now.. I'm coming from a Marzocchi Shiver... possible the smoothest, plushest fork, ever. Just weighs 8.5 lbs If it was 7 lbs I'd probably still have it, need a Titanium spring, or air conversion I think.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yeah, 'bout that...

    Got bitten by the Rohloff bug. Hope to have a rideable bike in a week or so.

    I'm sure someone will beat me to the first built position in that time though.
    Someone say Rohloff....maiden voyage this morning. So far so good.... may a lefty will fit the DeSalvo...ummmm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-knardly-1-5.jpg  

    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-knardly-1-4.jpg  


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    Have you not ridden a Vanilla?

    My Vanilla 180 and 160 are amazing, little weighty.. but amazing.

    Don't even get me started on how nice a 40 feels

    Friend of mine has a new 36 Float 160, and it rides great too, it's a little less sensitive than the Vanilla, but on the hard hit it ramps up nicely and feels even more bottomless.

    Now.. I'm coming from a Marzocchi Shiver... possible the smoothest, plushest fork, ever. Just weighs 8.5 lbs If it was 7 lbs I'd probably still have it, need a Titanium spring, or air conversion I think.
    Yeah, the coil stuff is *better* but still under stated travel, still locks up when you hit the brakes, and still over hyped in their brand awesomeness. Do realize please, I'm not trying pick a fight, I am just unimpressed for the $, (you can get a RockShox for far less, that feels far better, if you need a dual slider to feel comfortable) and Fox's CS/phone system is about the worst I've dealt with to boot. It's unfortunate that to get a nice feeling Fox, you have to buy a boat anchor. Their air stuff just blows (pardoning the pun...).

    Of course, if it puts a smile on your face, that, in the end, is all that matters. Much like Fat vs skinny, 29 vs 26, if we're out in the woods, smiling, I don't give a rats behind how you got there.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkbike2 View Post
    may a lefty will fit the DeSalvo...ummmm
    Yeah? Digging it? Had my second ride this AM, definitely getting used to it.

    As for the Lefty, my, what a long headtube you have! What's your stack height? 188mm is the max at this time....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yeah, the coil stuff is *better* but still under stated travel, still locks up when you hit the brakes, and still over hyped in their brand awesomeness. Do realize please, I'm not trying pick a fight, I am just unimpressed for the $, (you can get a RockShox for far less, that feels far better, if you need a dual slider to feel comfortable) and Fox's CS/phone system is about the worst I've dealt with to boot. It's unfortunate that to get a nice feeling Fox, you have to buy a boat anchor. Their air stuff just blows (pardoning the pun...).

    Of course, if it puts a smile on your face, that, in the end, is all that matters. Much like Fat vs skinny, 29 vs 26, if we're out in the woods, smiling, I don't give a rats behind how you got there.
    I just find it weird, what you have found in your experience with Fox forks.

    Mine doesn't have any bushing stiction under braking... only when it's super cold out, do I notice the damper being affected.

    I had a Totem Solo Air, and it was terrible feeling.. very very sticky compared to my Fox forks... removed the Mission Control Flood Gate, it was a tiny bit better.. had to run it at about 60% recommended pressure to get any small bump sensitivity out of it, and at that point it was bottoming like crazy. Yet it had 30% sag when way underpressured.

    I'm real hesitant on getting a Lefty because of the few I've ridden, were either brand new, or really old.. and they all felt sticky like that Totem I had, and nearly every Rockshox fork I've tried has felt sticky except once a brand new Reba Race, felt excellent. Even Boxxer Race forks feel sticky to me, the WC is just unbearable... I've gotten to try at least a dozen of each of them, worked out in Calgary for a while, lots of DH bikes.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    I just find it weird, what you have found in your experience with Fox forks.
    Perhaps it's different with the big travel stuff, I'm no DH guy, longest fork I own is a WB Fluid 150. I know the RS stuff from a few years back was junk, totally agree. Current stuff though has been phenomenal. Want sticky, try a FIT damper Fox.

    The Lefty isn't for all, that's a given. Sticky? Nope. Can't speak to what you experienced there, but all mine are buttery.

    The bushing bind I'm talking about, is the reason a lot of dual slider riders don't like Leftys, because they don't do it. Brake dive is more pronounced, but once you learn to ride with it and use it, the super active nature really shines. Cannondale introduced some LS compression tuning a year or two ago, tried it and immediately reverted to the stock set up. It's the one complaint I hear, the fork is plungey, I hit the brakes and it moves.

    All the dual slider forks have adapted the natural bind during braking, and riders just assume it's how a fork feels, till they ride one that doesn't have it at all.

    Like I said, all chin music, whatever blows your hair back is AOK with me, and Lefty isn't even trying for the DH/long travel crowd, so all's good in the 'hood.

    This video has made the rounds many times, I assume you've seen it, but it illustrates what I'm getting at.

    Benefits Cannondale Lefty fork by Beukers Bike Centre - YouTube
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  65. #65
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    Both Fox forks in my household are FIT damper equipped

    As well as my friends Float, which rides quite well.

    20mm axles though, far less stiction when the wheel is being deflected.

    Maybe the "stiction" I have felt in the Lefty is the needle bearings, and I'm just not used to it.

    Also, I'm not really worried about what who likes... just merely discussing, in a friendly manner.

    I want to like the Lefty, I know and have seen in person who stiff they are. I'm totally lost how people think they may break, cars have had single sided wheel mounting for over a century... many centuries if you could old caravans.

    I think if I find a Lefty with a damper I like, I'd be happy. So maybe if I can reasonably price together one with a Fox damper :P

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Good eye, you caught me

    A full wrap of beer can under the clamp slid in nicely, and just about fills the difference perfectly. The lower clamp slot shows just a smidge less gap than the top once both are snugged. I could fly my color choice, but opted to run the shim backwards for full aluminum colored stealth mode....

    I'm running it this way to get more travel and clean up the look. The short head tube forces your hand unless you want a bunch of spacers under the clamp, which just looks odd to me.
    Hi, Thought about E-mailing you about this. But figured your inbox is probably full enough.

    It seems relavent to this though.....

    I bought a fat lefty from you for a custom Ti fat frame. Because of my being vertically challenged, my frame builder needing space to weld the DT, and TT, to the HT, and my desire for max fat travel. I was struggling to see how I could get my bars at the level I wanted. Then you only had the deep drop top clamps left, and it seemed a undoable.

    I figured I'd have a bash at running the top clamp above my stem. As I'm waiting on my fat frame. I decided to 'fat front' a single-speed, belt driven, 29er, I had lying around.

    Works perfectly!

    Sorry for the terrible pics. I've too busy ridin 'n' smilin to take better ones Thanks!

    (My fat frame has a 15mm shorter headtube, so I'll raise the bottom clamp a smidge, and consider snapping out a travel spacer. But either way its gonna be sweet.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-fatfront-2.jpg  

    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-fatfront-1.jpg  

    A big boy did it, and ran away.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    I want to like the Lefty, I know and have seen in person who stiff they are. I'm totally lost how people think they may break, cars have had single sided wheel mounting for over a century... many centuries if you could old caravans.

    I think if I find a Lefty with a damper I like, I'd be happy. So maybe if I can reasonably price together one with a Fox damper :P
    Yeah, I've often wondered on why folks like them so much, based on my experiences, but then, I'm sure there's others going how can they ride those ridiculous looking things?

    The bearings provide a super smooth, plush, stiction free ride. I'm guessing here, but the variable is bearing preload and grease used. If you happen to have ridden forks that were built at the tight end of the spectrum, they definitely feel less plush. The one on my Krampus actually, is a bit tight compared to another one I've been riding lately, and I need to go in and tweak it.

    Many folks will DIY their telescopes, or, when doing routine re greasing, use a thick grease. This has a huge impact on the plushness too.

    Also obviously, having it set right for your body weight. Cannondales spec, I find, is too firm, so if set up by someone using those numbers, I could see the issue too.

    They also run air chamber volume reduction which at the stock set up, makes it feel spiky compared to running with less, or none, but that is a setting you need to be careful with, no reduction and too little air, you crush the bumpers if you bottom out too often....

    Ever find yourself in upstate NY looking to ride, stop on by, I'll happily hook you up.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfurry View Post
    Works perfectly!

    Sorry for the terrible pics. I've too busy ridin 'n' smilin to take better ones Thanks!
    Sweet! That does seem to make it work well.

    Now lets talk about this climbing you seem to be doing, holy mother of all things holy, that's some steep, continuous grade for a SS.

    You're my new hero.

    Where is that, and what's the elevation total? Looks quite similar to a ride around here, and I'd never willingly do it on a SS!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Sweet! That does seem to make it work well.

    Now lets talk about this climbing you seem to be doing, holy mother of all things holy, that's some steep, continuous grade for a SS.

    You're my new hero.

    Where is that, and what's the elevation total? Looks quite similar to a ride around here, and I'd never willingly do it on a SS!
    Its a ride some, walk some kinda climb. Not much heroics. The SS 29er is usually 8 1/2 kg. So it was a bit of a shock.

    Its a shortcut to the top of the small mountain in the center of Aalesund, Norway. 140m above sea level I guess. Not really a bike friendly area being so central, so I take it easy. I do a better climb on my fixed gear each year. 0 - 1500m over 21 km. Only passed once too

    I've since moved the front wheel a few mm's forward, redished the wheel, and fine tuned the A-C. I was seriously impressed with the ride already. Being able to fine tune it to a particular frame was the cherry on the icing on the cake.
    A big boy did it, and ran away.
    62*28'

  70. #70
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    Very cool, forgot you were in Norway.

    Looks very much like our woods to be honest, which is interestsing considering how much farther north you guys are....

    Happy fine tuning!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  71. #71
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    Yes Virginia, Krampus is a Lefty-lefty013.jpg

    I´m in the process to modify my carbon lefty right now.
    My plan is to make new clamps with bigger offset for Clown Shoe rims and 4.8mm tires.
    Experimental Prototype

  72. #72
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    Thanks for the thread! good info in here!
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  73. #73
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    Slower, glad to help, hopefully inspire too!

    Hey Mattias, just curious if you're smarter than me, or have now had your "uh oh" moment?

    The threads at the top end (which are kinda necessary) are part of the top clamp. Find a way around that? Or are now beating your head against the wall?

    Not being snarky, genuinely curious, as this has stopped several others from doing what you just did.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  74. #74
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    Thanks for all the info, I am looking to set a Lefty up for my Krampus when it comes in.

    I have a 2000 DLR 100mm, ~475mm A2C. Looks like it has plenty of room for the lower clamp to slide up to dial in head tube angle, considering the 100mm head tube on the (L) Krampus.

    So it looks like I'll need 30mm worth of spacers to limit the travel down to 70mm, and then adjust the lower clamp to get an A2c of 483mm under sag.
    Do I have this right?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Free or Die View Post
    I have a 2000 DLR 100mm, ~475mm A2C. Looks like it has plenty of room for the lower clamp to slide up to dial in head tube angle, considering the 100mm head tube on the (L) Krampus.

    So it looks like I'll need 30mm worth of spacers to limit the travel down to 70mm, and then adjust the lower clamp to get an A2c of 483mm under sag.
    Do I have this right?
    Not exactly.

    A to C is and expression of the overall length of the fork, not just where you choose to put the crown. Sorry.

    That being said, due to the fact that you can move the lower clamp up, you may be able to get away with more than 70 mm of travel. So there's a plus maybe?

    You'll need to dish the wheel over a bit from "proper", to create tire clearance, assuming that you're running a Rabbit Hole. Stans Flow will allow use of the Knard without doing this.

    So, once that's done, you'll need to remove the key on your clamps, so you can freely rotate the leg, to correct the wheel/tire to center.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  76. #76
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    Thanks for the reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Not exactly.

    A to C is and expression of the overall length of the fork, not just where you choose to put the crown. Sorry.
    Not sure I follow. If I slide my lower clamp up, does this not effectively increase my A2C/decrease HTA? What am I missing here?
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    That being said, due to the fact that you can move the lower clamp up, you may be able to get away with more than 70 mm of travel. So there's a plus maybe?
    I've been thinking that, but wont that slack my front end out if I go higher than the Krampus OEM fork?
    How do you find your front end with your setup? I want to make sure this rig is stable in a climb. I live in NH so the terrain is probably somewhat similar to yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    You'll need to dish the wheel over a bit from "proper", to create tire clearance, assuming that you're running a Rabbit Hole. Stans Flow will allow use of the Knard without doing this.
    How wide are the Stans rims your using? Their on the narrow side arent thy? How do the Knards feel on them? Havent decided what to do on wheels yet, torn between going lighter or going with the RHs, considering the Snowcat 44mm too. Any input here would be appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    So, once that's done, you'll need to remove the key on your clamps, so you can freely rotate the leg, to correct the wheel/tire to center.
    This took me a minute to wrap my head around, been wondering what you meant by "floating" it back to center. Basically we dish over say 2mm (just for example) to drive side to clear the fork leg, then we rotate the fork counter clockwise and rotate the fork tube clockwise back into center. Thats some freakin sorcery right there.

    I think I may just have to send my fork into you, its due for some maintenance anyway.

  77. #77
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    So a Lefty isn't a normal fork (shocking, I know...) with regards to axle to crown. Because the clamps (on your version) can move, you need to not consider the crowns position, when thinking about axle to crown.

    Think about a conventional fork. It's crown position is fixed. The overall length is fixed too, unless you change travel, then, A to C changes.

    Since the Lefty you have, can't change travel, neither can it's A to C. Overall length is fixed. The clamps position at the top end is fixed, so, from top to bottom, the length doesn't change, regardless of what you do to the lower clamps position. It just gets farther away from the tire. With a Lefty that you can change travel, the A to C and therefore overall length, and distance from the forks top, to the ground, changes accordingly.

    My set up is longer than your fork. I set mine up to have very similar length to the stock fork. With yours, the HTA will be steeper. This is good, or bad, based on your feelings on the matter. Stability climbing should be "better" simply because it will be less wandery, due to the steeper HTA.

    I'm running Rabbit Holes, not Stans. The good folks at BlackSheep are running Knards on Stans Flows, and a conventional, modern Lefty. I'm running a movable clamp fork of similar design to yours, and a Project 321 Lefty clamp set. They don't have the key that yours does, so I can float the fork around as needed.

    Fork floating.

    Dish wheel sufficiently to create tire clearance from the fork leg.

    Stand in front of the bike, grab wheel with your knees.

    Remove top cap and bolt of headset, this gives you a nice sight hole through to the tire tread.

    Loosen clamps on fork. Grab bars and twist. The wheel will move, side to side. Center it, by sighting through the hole. Tighten clamps, straighten bars, ride!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  78. #78
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    How is this bike on snow?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by x3speed View Post
    How is this bike on snow?
    Better than skinnier, not as good a fatter.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  80. #80
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    I may be getting a hold of you at some point, trying to decide 616 stainless or 9zero7. Def want a lefty.

  81. #81
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    bored with what?

  82. #82
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    nice work mendon
    that's also my next project!!!
    greetz
    michel
    the netherlands

  83. #83
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    MCS - Wanting your input on choosing the best lefty for me. I'm going to building up a 29+ rig with knards on 47mm rims and am leaning towards a 90 or 100mm lefty. It's my huge splurge project, so I'm ok spending the money to get nice stuff, new if that's what is best. I weigh 170#, want PBR, and am fine with doing the bering reset maintenance required for the older forks. Important to me is weight, stiffness, 29+ clearance, and of course performance & reliability. I'm just not knowledgeable about all the models, and am not convinced that the improvements for 2013 are really any better. Really appreciate your opinion.

  84. #84
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    Best choice in terms of flexibility of set up, upgradability, etc, is a 2005-2008 era Max 140 that would have come on a Prophet.

    You can throw a PBR in it, and while doing that, choose between 70/480, 90/500 or 110/520 travel/ a to c.

    Forget about weight, they simply weigh what they do, but PBR'ing it drops 1/2 a lb.

    What damper it comes with stock, FFD/TPC or SPV matters not, as they will be replaced.

    Happy hunting
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  85. #85
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    Not a fan of the new stuff? According to this: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/su...802452-63.html #1572 & #1608 2013 lefty's work with knards on 47mm. Just don't know if newer = better.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincentg View Post
    Not a fan of the new stuff? According to this: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/su...802452-63.html #1572 & #1608 2013 lefty's work with knards on 47mm. Just don't know if newer = better.
    My understanding is the problem with the newer Lefty forks on non-Lefty-specific bikes is that the clamps are bonded in place, so you can't adjust them for other frame / stack dimensions.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincentg View Post
    Not a fan of the new stuff? According to this: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/su...802452-63.html #1572 & #1608 2013 lefty's work with knards on 47mm. Just don't know if newer = better.
    If you don't want to run Rabbit Holes, you may be fine. I know folks are running Stans Flows with modern Leftys.

    My thought is though, you have the volume, why strangle it with a narrow rim, thus needing to run higher pressures to keep the tire from rolling side to side in corners.

    If you want to run the RH's though, symmetrical dish will produce rubbing, so you need to offset the dish slightly, then correct with the free floating clamps.

    Thus, the old forks are the game to play at that point.

    The new stuff is great, no issues with them as they sit....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  88. #88
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    New Lefty Fork

    Crosspost from the 29er forum w/ pics of my new front end:









    I'm using a 2010(?) Lefty Speed Carbon DLR set to 80mm of travel and a Project 321 tapered steerer tube adapter. Some things I learned along the way:

    • If you're using an external cup headset, you need the tapered steerer tube adapter. If you try and use the straight one you can't hammer the crown race in place and then insert the tube, it doesn't fit.
    • If you're using an internal headset, you need the straight steerer tube adapter, or it won't fit. I'm using external to try and get a little more stack height.
    • The wheel rubs when you compress the fork if you build it centered with the Rabbit Hole/Knard combo.. You need at least 5mm of offset to get it to run acceptably, and I've probably added another few mm's after the initial test ride. Even then, I can get it to rub if I sprint out of the saddle, but it doesn't rub during normal riding.


    I don't think I notice the small amount of offset to the front wheel. In theory it should make it easier to turn one way and harder to turn the other, but so far so good. The front end is steeper than stock with only 80mm of travel, I think the Krampus is designed for 100mm, but so far that's the only con, and it's more than made up for by the fact that the front end has rebound and dampening and stuff. Even with 3" tires, it never felt like I had even a little suspension up front, but now that I have real suspension, the rear feels like it's got an inch or two back there.

    The maiden voyage - at night, with a full face helmet because I still had Moab stitches in my head:

    Shoutout to Joe at JPaks for the frame bag - it holds a Camelbak bladder and essentials so I don't have to wear a backpack.

    And finally, set up with P clamps and growler cages for a bicycle pub crawl that's been in the works for a while. Yes, the suspension is fully functional like this, and yes, the handling is affected SIGNIFICANTLY.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  89. #89
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    I've got a modern (2011 white aluminum) lefty with a knard on a rabbit hole, and I don't have any issues at all.

    It looks centered to me; it can be really hard to tell, finding some line of sight that verifies that the wheel is centered with the frame. I built the wheel on the fork because that's the only only place I had. I just built it to have appropriate tire clearance, and it is is fine. I have no evidence at all that it is off center - it probably is, I just can't see it or feel it when I ride.

    So for people who are worried about using a modern lefty with fixed clamps, I would say don't be worried, unless you are hyper-sensitive or OCD about these types of things, and will drive you nuts like The Tell Tale Heart. If someone built it for you and gave it to you that way, you'd never know it was off center. I'm not even convinced mine is. I even have space to move mine over to the left a few millimeters, but I see no reason to.

    It's a big mountain bike with big tires, it doesn't need to be perfectly efficient like an Olympic time trial bike.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlikedog View Post
    It's a big mountain bike with big tires, it doesn't need to be perfectly efficient like an Olympic time trial bike.
    Correct. I recently moved my lefty from one frame to another. The install on the 2nd was hasty on my part. It rode a little bit funny. Not horrible. Just turned one way more eagerly. I checked: I misaligned the tire center by a whole half inch.

    I spent, I dunno, a couple minutes readjusting it on the trail on a sunny day. Worked fine. Moral of the story, don't sweat below a couple millimeters.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Free or Die View Post
    Not sure I follow. If I slide my lower clamp up, does this not effectively increase my A2C/decrease HTA? What am I missing here?
    I've been thinking the same thing. The head tube rests on the lower clamp. The upper clamp doesn't have anything to do with the height of the head tube, just the stem. Keeping the top clamp in place while shifting the lower clamp up should increase the distance between the bottom of the head tube and the axle, increasing effective Axle to Crown, and slackening the front end.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  92. #92
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    Kinda hard to explain, but your top clamp is the arbiter of overall ride height (ie: a2c). If you drop the top clamp downward, you effectively change HTA/a2c. You can only go so far before you hit the narrower section of the outer tube, so its generally recommended to run it full to top.

    Making the lower clamp closer to the top one, nets you zip. It does allow for the potential to add some travel back, assuming you're running a system that can handle that tweak.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Kinda hard to explain, but your top clamp is the arbiter of overall ride height (ie: a2c).
    Maybe it's different on Cannondale frames, but with the 321 adapter steerer the head tube rests on the lower clamp, and it's the lower clamp that affects the ride height.

    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  94. #94
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    More detail needs to be added to Mendon's statement so you understand. Yes, the lower headset race rests on the top of the lower clamp at the steerer.
    *below holds true the aluminum body lefties, as the carbon tubed version is a special custom issue*

    There is a fixed distance between the larger diameter clamping surfaces on the tube. The upper surface is only a little longer than the clamp is. This you cannot change, so it is recommended to base the upper clamp on this location. Your HT and head set are fixed length. After that you start to play with your steerer/spacer stack/stem for positioning.
    Now back to the lower clamp. If you have a long HT the lower clamp can be moved all the way down to the boot on the filter (not that you would) because the larger diameter clamping surface extends all the way down, and your AC distance would be decreased. The fat clamps were offered with 2 different top clamp "drop lengths" to account for frames with longer head tubes, so the relative distance between the upper and lower would remain the same on the lefty. This gives some flexibility as to what frames they work on and how you set up your cockpit.

    With a short HT, setting the upper clamp where it is supposed to be, there is a chance that the lower clamp will end up above the larger diameter section where it should be located. This increases the A-C.
    I have this 2nd case. So setting the lower clamp as high as it could go, with the "short drop" upper clamp I wound up with a huge spacer stack and poor handlebar position. There was so much room, in fact, that I inverted the upper clamp so that is slopes down from the Lefty to the steerer. Opposite what the upper clamp on the Krampus above does.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    There is a fixed distance between the larger diameter clamping surfaces on the tube. The upper surface is only a little longer than the clamp is. This you cannot change, so it is recommended to base the upper clamp on this location. Your HT and head set are fixed length. After that you start to play with your steerer/spacer stack/stem for positioning.
    Now back to the lower clamp. If you have a long HT the lower clamp can be moved all the way down to the boot on the filter (not that you would) because the larger diameter clamping surface extends all the way down, and your AC distance would be decreased. The fat clamps were offered with 2 different top clamp "drop lengths" to account for frames with longer head tubes, so the relative distance between the upper and lower would remain the same on the lefty. This gives some flexibility as to what frames they work on and how you set up your cockpit.

    With a short HT, setting the upper clamp where it is supposed to be, there is a chance that the lower clamp will end up above the larger diameter section where it should be located. This increases the A-C.
    I have this 2nd case. So setting the lower clamp as high as it could go, with the "short drop" upper clamp I wound up with a huge spacer stack and poor handlebar position. There was so much room, in fact, that I inverted the upper clamp so that is slopes down from the Lefty to the steerer. Opposite what the upper clamp on the Krampus above does.
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    A full wrap of beer can under the clamp slid in nicely, and just about fills the difference perfectly. The lower clamp slot shows just a smidge less gap than the top once both are snugged. I could fly my color choice, but opted to run the shim backwards for full aluminum colored stealth mode....

    I'm running it this way to get more travel and clean up the look. The short head tube forces your hand unless you want a bunch of spacers under the clamp, which just looks odd to me.
    I agree with everything you're saying. I wanted to point out that Mendon, above, moved his lower clamp up to the smaller diameter section, using a beer can as a shim, in order to eliminate the need for the tall stack of spacers that I'm having to deal with on my Krampus. So the clamp distance has more flexibility than you would think, if you mod it a bit.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    I agree with everything you're saying. I wanted to point out that Mendon, above, moved his lower clamp up to the smaller diameter section, using a beer can as a shim, in order to eliminate the need for the tall stack of spacers that I'm having to deal with on my Krampus. So the clamp distance has more flexibility than you would think, if you mod it a bit.
    While true technically, most folks buy a bike/fork, with the travel and a2c in mind. That said, yes, you could slide the fork upwards in the clamps and affect the a2c, but this also may well impact the amount of travel available. A tuning point, perhaps, but not really one most are likely to deploy, since, if you want a shorter a2c fork, set it up, or buy it that way....

    Most would consider adding travel to a given a2c to be of greater benefit than shortening a2c and reducing available travel.

    That all being said, do whatever makes you smile, but test well, we all want your teeth to remain where they are!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    .... using a beer can as a shim.......
    I was the one to question that back on page 2.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    I've been thinking the same thing. The head tube rests on the lower clamp. The upper clamp doesn't have anything to do with the height of the head tube, just the stem. Keeping the top clamp in place while shifting the lower clamp up should increase the distance between the bottom of the head tube and the axle, increasing effective Axle to Crown, and slackening the front end.
    You are correct. It will increase the axle to crown and slacken the front end.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlikedog View Post
    You are correct. It will increase the axle to crown and slacken the front end.
    Politely? Nope.

    Picture this.

    You have a broom. Put your hand on the top of it, and stand it upright. Your hand is the top clamp. Now put your other hand say, 12" below your upper.

    No matter where your lower hand is, 6", 8" below your upper, the length of the broom never changes.

    Since the fork length never changes, neither does the bikes distance from the ground, therefore, neither does the a2c.

    Make sense?
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Politely? Nope.

    Picture this.

    You have a broom. Put your hand on the top of it, and stand it upright. Your hand is the top clamp. Now put your other hand say, 12" below your upper.

    No matter where your lower hand is, 6", 8" below your upper, the length of the broom never changes.

    Since the fork length never changes, neither does the bikes distance from the ground, therefore, neither does the a2c.

    Make sense?
    Using your reference, wouldn't the bike move closer to the ground if you move your lower hand closer to the ground? I can't imagine anything that would stop a person from lowering the bottom crown until a full uncut steerer is all of the way down to the stem, then add spacers below the top crown.

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