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  1. #1
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    New question here. Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist

    So, i am considering a larger tire for a 85-90 mm rim for the deeper snow and loose conditions. The snows here in CNY lately transform over a weeks or so, melt or even rain a bit, freeze, repeat. So want a big all rounder.

    I have some D4's studded on 65mm for speed on the ice and hard packed trails but still would like to run studs on a Bigger set up for traction Assurance on unexpected ice. Better than insurance and hospitals!

    Is the Wrathchild like the Flow and Dunderbeist in loose and deep conditions? Anyone ride 'em both?


    Anything i have missed or should know about the Wrathchild? I don't see much talk about folks riding experience on the forum here. I know they were not available for a long time. A good deal now though...

    Pretty much the same size:
    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_0269.jpg
    Last edited by Kirkerik; 08-06-2017 at 07:14 AM.

  2. #2
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    Maybe two D5's studded would be good for me? I weigh 150# BTW

    I would consider another one (i have one of the older version on the shelf) but i hear it is not so great in the deeper stuff.

    Never even mounted it cause i have narrow 65mm rims right now, might just sell it.

  3. #3
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    I've only ridden the Wrathchild on ice and frozen ground. I got it near the end of our winter racing season. For me it was a great tire. This is my first set of studded tires. I don't know if I'd want to ride these always though, they are fairly aggressive compared to the other fatbike tires I've had enough time to get to know them. (Bonti Barbi, Vee Bulldozer, Vee Mission Command)

  4. #4
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    The Wrathchild didn't come out in time for me to try them, although I really wanted to. The Flow/Dunder have been great for me, but when I needed studs I went with the Terrene Wazia, which proved to be an amazing tire in all conditions. I ran the 4.0" on a 80mm rim and I was really impressed.

    Judging by tire profiles alone though, I'd think the Wrathchild will be every bit as grippy as Flow/Dunder. Although the big side knobs might cause clearance issues for folks like me who like to push the limits of what their frames can fit. They appear to stick out quite a bit, but that could be an optical illusion.
    Jason
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  5. #5
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    New Wrathchilds in Hand

    Well, i could not pass up a good deal on a pair for next season.

    First impressions are good. They are aggressive but not "too knobby" as i was a bit concerned w/out seeing them first hand. Each tire (unstudded) weighed in at 1375g on my hanging scale. Lighter than the D5 studded at 1565g and a bit heavier than the D4 Studded 120tpi at 1330g.

    I got two 258 concave (regular size) stud kits w the tires. Each kit in a small ziplock bag w the info card weighed 80g each. I pulled 34 studs and the card making 224 studs weighing 70g. So if i were to fill all the stud pockets in the WC it would weigh 1445g. 120g lighter than D5.

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_2993.jpg

    I was told they have a little bit harder durometer rubber to accomodate the XL studs 45nrth is still working on because the XL stud was ripping out of the softer durometer. My thumb test confirms they are slightly harder than the Dillingers and Vanhelga i have. Not much but noticeable.

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_2992.jpg

    The sidewall casing is definately more supple on the WC than the D5, despite the firmer durometer. However the casing within the tread area is a little stiffer on WC than the D5.

    Disclaimer, this photo below the tires are unmounted:

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_2991.jpg

    The tires casing width measure the same:

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_2997.jpg
    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_2995.jpg

    I don't know why the thread post thing always spins the photos at random it seems. WTH?
    Last edited by Kirkerik; 08-06-2017 at 06:45 AM.

  6. #6
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    Here is one mounted on a Clown Shoe.

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-img_0372.jpg

    I plan on running the WC's on 85's and Lou on the 100's (for varying conditions).
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  7. #7
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    WC Profile on Hundo's

    ****
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-image.jpg  

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-image.jpg  

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-image.jpg  

    Last edited by Kirkerik; 08-06-2017 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Glitches
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  8. #8
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    Width on 100 please?

  9. #9
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    I have them mounted on 65's now but I remember they were fairly close to spec when i measured them close to 15-20 psi.

    If i get a chance i,ll mt them up again to measure on 100.

    Quite the round profile on 65's.
    85's prob be ideal for all around use.
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  10. #10
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    Theyhave the exact same casing width as the D5's but the side lugs stick out a bit more
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  11. #11
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    WC on 65's

    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-fullsizerender.jpg

    Clown shoe on left, Black Eagle on right

    When i get back to my calipers i'll measure them up
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  12. #12
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    Bikestud.com has some nice studs that will fit in those tires if you want. They are much smaller than the ones that wrathchild sells.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC-20171223_085116.jpg  


  13. #13
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    Those won't grip for anything compared to the XL's.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    Those won't grip for anything compared to the XL's.
    I agree,part of the reason I bought the Wrathchilds are for the XL stud. Have approx. 250 miles on them and haven't lost any yet. We shall see...

  15. #15
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    So I don't know if my post is relevant to this thread since my wrathchilds are only 3.0s and I'm not truly "fat". My first ride (11 mi 1500ft climbing) I pulled a huge amount of studs on the rear tire. After I replaced all the missing studs I did another ride on the same trail. On the second ride the snow was deeper and it was much colder. The second ride I didn't lose any studs. My theory is that the rubber was too soft on the first ride because it was warmer out and the second ride was much colder. Just a theory. I would also like to add that the long studs maybe just too long for asphalt but if they pull out I have smaller studs to replace so no big deal.

  16. #16
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    Interesting. I am putting my new set of wraithchilds on 80mm mulefut rims. I plan to get a second set of 95 or 100mm rims for something really wide for optimal flotation. Then i have choice.

    My issue with wraithchilds is that they measure 4.1 inches wide on 80mm rims. Great for ice grip... less so for flotation. I wish the dillinger 5s had xl studs, or 45nrth had a proper wide 5 inch option.

    But i am told that the wcs are unbelievable in icy conditions. Keen to use them.

  17. #17
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    I had my first ride on the WC 26x4.6 today. It was -2deg F on icy hardpack. These tires are amazing in these conditions. I ran 6f/7r PSI which gave me pretty decent rolling speed. Faster than the super low PSI settings I was running trying to get grip out of the FBF/FBR, with really impressive cornering grip.

  18. #18
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    It seems with the XL studs I am always running higher pressure than most guys I ride with,on icy hardpack at approx. -5 deg. F I was running 7-8 PSI all day. Got new snow the next day ran 5 PSI in about 4" of the white stuff,float was great.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliding_serpent View Post
    ...

    My issue with wraithchilds is that they measure 4.1 inches wide on 80mm rims. Great for ice grip... less so for flotation. I wish the dillinger 5s had xl studs, or 45nrth had a proper wide 5 inch option.

    ...
    Maybe you got a narrow set?? My WCs measured out at 4.37 on 90 mm Nextie Wild Dragons. That was with tubes and about two minutes after initial install. I suspect that number will hit ~ 4.5 after they stretch and I go tubeless.

    For reference, my Bud and Lou set came out to 4.63 on the same rims.

  20. #20
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    I just want to add that tubeless, on 80mm rims, when i ride through snow (loaded bike) my path is exactly 4.6 inches wide.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Warp View Post
    Bikestud.com has some nice studs that will fit in those tires if you want. They are much smaller than the ones that wrathchild sells.
    I have some concave 45nrth studs for them. I now have maybe 2/3rds of them installed. We have not had any ice yet but it will be here.

    I have not seen the xl ones for sale anywhere! So when i got them i just got the regular sized ones. They work fine. I have heard reports of the xl ones ripping out.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliding_serpent View Post
    Interesting. I am putting my new set of wraithchilds on 80mm mulefut rims. I plan to get a second set of 95 or 100mm rims for something really wide for optimal flotation. Then i have choice.

    My issue with wraithchilds is that they measure 4.1 inches wide on 80mm rims. Great for ice grip... less so for flotation. I wish the dillinger 5s had xl studs, or 45nrth had a proper wide 5 inch option.

    But i am told that the wcs are unbelievable in icy conditions. Keen to use them.
    The WC has the same casing width as a D5. if you want to run the Xlarge studs in a D5 you could always install them yourself. When I ran the D4's they seem to wash out when compared to the WrathChilds.

    The WC is made from a slightly firmer durometer rubber. Maybe this accounts for a smaller size when installed??
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    I have some concave 45nrth studs for them. I now have maybe 2/3rds of them installed. We have not had any ice yet but it will be here.

    I have not seen the xl ones for sale anywhere! So when i got them i just got the regular sized ones. They work fine. I have heard reports of the xl ones ripping out.
    Still new to all of this, Did you consider installing using Shoe GOO, Super Glue etc?
    Blaine, Mn

  24. #24
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    No. I am not missing any. They hold up fine. When installing just be sure to seat them fully. I think it would be easy to install them half-assed as it takes considerable force to get them seated fully. I use a little water to lubricate the process.

    I just meant that i only installed 2/3rd's of them beacuse i did not really need them yet. I just threw some in there to get started and went riding.

    I finally put a caliper on my WC although they are currently on 65mm Black Eagles. They measure 108mm or 4-1/4" on the outside of widest knobs.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    No. I am not missing any. They hold up fine. When installing just be sure to seat them fully. I think it would be easy to install them half-assed as it takes considerable force to get them seated fully. I use a little water to lubricate the process.

    I just meant that i only installed 2/3rd's of them beacuse i did not really need them yet. I just threw some in there to get started and went riding.
    I meant did you consider going with XL's and using some type of glue instead of the standard studs.
    Blaine, Mn

  26. #26
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    I did consider the xl but they were not available at the time.

    I guess i would have to have a look at them in hand to determine if i wanted to bother w glue. Maybe just glue the center knobs. Rubber cement would prob act as a lubricant for installion. Glue really should not be necessary. Perhpas folks are not installing them completely.

    If you use a feeler in the stud pocket you will find a slightly wider section at the base of the stud pocket to grab the wider "T" bottom of the stud.
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  27. #27
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    I haven't lost a stud yet on my factory installed xl's with a few months of riding in.

  28. #28
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    I am loosing XL studs on the front now. We are having warmer winter temps this year and my theory is the rubber is too soft at warmer temps to hold the studs. I have some old Nokian WXC 300s that are like at least 12 yrs old. I have already lost way more of the XL studs than I have lost on the Nokians in all those years. The tubeless performance of the wrathchild is awesome. I'll just keep replacing the XL studs with smaller studs. Maybe I'll pull the pointed studs out of my Nokians and put in the wrathchilds as they fall out.

  29. #29
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    Wrathchild vs Flowbeist, Dunderbeist. No Sipes on WC

    Been running a Wratchild the past month on the front and no lost studs for me. One thing I did do was spend about 15 -20 minutes on pavement bedding the studs in. My method to do this is start with about 12psi pressure and ride, then drop to 6psi and then put them back up to 10 psi and finish. This is my 8th studded tire and Ive never lost a stud doing this method.

    That all said, I will use caution when the temperatures warm up as I think you guys are onto something with warm temps causing studs to pull out.


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I haven't lost a stud yet on my factory installed xl's with a few months of riding in.
    I'm glad to hear it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Warp View Post
    I am loosing XL studs on the front now. We are having warmer winter temps this year and my theory is the rubber is too soft at warmer temps to hold the studs. I have some old Nokian WXC 300s that are like at least 12 yrs old. I have already lost way more of the XL studs than I have lost on the Nokians in all those years. The tubeless performance of the wrathchild is awesome. I'll just keep replacing the XL studs with smaller studs. Maybe I'll pull the pointed studs out of my Nokians and put in the wrathchilds as they fall out.
    Where on the tire (which knobs) do the studs get lost?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_biker View Post
    Been running a Wratchild the past month on the front and no lost studs for me. One thing I did do was spend about 15 -20 minutes on pavement bedding the studs in. My method to do this is start with about 12psi pressure and ride, then drop to 6psi and then put them back up to 10 psi and finish. This is my 8th studded tire and Ive never lost a stud doing this method.

    That all said, I will use caution when the temperatures warm up as I think you guys are onto something with warm temps causing studs to pull out.
    I have not lost any normal sized studs. I just bed them completely w the tool using firm pressure. A little hard on the hands though after a couple hundred.

    45nrth used a slightly firmer durometer rubber for the WC when compared to the D5 in anticipation of the XL stud. It stands to reason more xl studs lost in warmer temps.
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  32. #32
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    I like the idea that someone had of putting a little glue in each hole. I am loosing studs in the middle and on the sides.

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