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  1. #1
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    What's Cheaper, 45N Studded D5's or an ER Visit?



    I’ll let you know when I get the bill……..

    I agonized about spending $475 three years ago. Talked to the 45N Rep at the Freewheel Winter Bike Expo and asked how it’s possible they are so expensive and why I should spend that much.

    He said:

    A. Economy of scale, small market so per tire cost is expensive

    B. Cheaper than an ER visit

    Fast forward I have three years and about 3,000 miles on them and they give me a lot of confidence on ice. (commuting and single track)

    Well, it’s “ Calendar” spring and the snow is melting so I figure I’ll get a jump on changing over to the non-studded tires.First morning commute I was riding an off camber tar path and the runoff froze into glare ice.So I slow down, the bike wiggled a bit then another 30 yards and bang, bike slid out from under me and I used my head to cushion the fall.

    Clearly could have been avoided with some diligence.

    Trip to the ER and a minor concussion. I’ll update when the bill comes…
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  2. #2
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    Helmet malfunction, or faceplant?
    2016 El Oso Grande
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Helmet malfunction, or faceplant?
    Bike slid out the downhill side, FAST. Hands and feet were still on the bike when I hit the back corner of my head. Bern helmet.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  4. #4
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    Hope you are 100% ASAP.
    2016 El Oso Grande
    2018 Stolen Zeke
    90's Skykomish

  5. #5
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    In the world of studded tires, they are pretty weak, but they are infinitely better than no studs. Hope you heal fast.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    In the world of studded tires, they are pretty weak, but they are infinitely better than no studs. Hope you heal fast.
    I know there are better tires for pure ice or all single track. But, yesterday for example I would have ridden about 6 miles of dry tar and .1 miles of ice. So for a commuter/single track tire I'm not sure there is a better tire?
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I know there are better tires for pure ice or all single track. But, yesterday for example I would have ridden about 6 miles of dry tar and .1 miles of ice. So for a commuter/single track tire I'm not sure there is a better tire?
    I'll probably start a new thread:

    "Best studded tire for riding/commuting in Spring (March 15 through April 15) in Minneapolis before 9:00am when the sun melts the morning ice, on an 80mm rim, oh and at what is the optimal PSI?)
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Hope you are 100% ASAP.
    Thanks, feel 100% this morning but I understand that may go south with light, sound and computer stimulation.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  9. #9
    turtles make me hot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I'll probably start a new thread:

    "Best studded tire for riding/commuting in Spring (March 15 through April 15) in Minneapolis before 9:00am when the sun melts the morning ice, on an 80mm rim, oh and at what is the optimal PSI?)
    LMAO. Perfect.

    Hope you're ok.
    I like turtles

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    LMAO. Perfect.

    Hope you're ok.
    What he said.
    Latitude 61

  11. #11
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    I feel you. I had a similar incident on a downhill road after one of the rain/snow storms we had earlier in the season. I was paying more attention to the car coming towards me than the ice in front of me. I was able to get off the bike once it started sliding out and basically slid myself on hands'n'knees into the middle of the road. Thankfully it was a side street and the car had room to stop. No bueno.

    Anyway, hope your head and ego recover quickly because as you said, Spring is here! Heal fast and well JeffG.

    Oh, I'm also looking forward to see the thread you proposed and to comment.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Helmet malfunction, or faceplant?
    Helmets help prevent skull fractures not concussion.

  13. #13
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    Sucks
    Get better soon!

    Fortunately the prices of studded tires are coming down. A lil bit anyways.
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

    The tires are the things on your bike that make contact w the trail

  14. #14
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangie View Post
    Helmets help prevent skull fractures not concussion.
    MIPS is designed to prevent/reduce concussions.

    Jeff I commented on your fb post with my knee story. I'm unable to work now because of another knee surgery, but I got on my bike last week. I am unstudded but I wait until it's been above 32 for a few hours before going outside.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  16. #16
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    Based on my last visit I would say the D5's are much cheaper. Good to know your not typing this from the ER

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post



    Clearly could have been avoided with some studded dilinger's.


    Trip to the ER and a minor concussion. I’ll update when the bill comes…
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I know there are better tires for pure ice or all single track. But, yesterday for example I would have ridden about 6 miles of dry tar and .1 miles of ice. So for a commuter/single track tire I'm not sure there is a better tire?
    I wasn't saying they suck, they are quite good, and like you say, they are generally completely worth it. I try to explain to newbies here that there are parts you can spend $500 on, like a set of Next cranks, and they work just as well as $150 cranks...but the studded fat tires...worth every penny.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    Follow up appointment today. I feel about 99% fine but doctor says no riding for two more weeks.

    #30daysofbikingNope
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  19. #19
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    Aww man! Hang in there!
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

    The tires are the things on your bike that make contact w the trail

  20. #20
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    Couple of weeks is not that long-at least you didn't break anything. Up here we still have cold weather,sort of in between spring and winter with a melt and freeze daily. Too warm for studs and too cold (icy) on the trails so I usually just stay off my bikes. (sucks)
    Hope you fully recover and continue on at 100%.

  21. #21
    All fat, all the time.
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    Ahhh what to doctors know!

  22. #22
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    I think the Doc meant no riding on ice for 2 weeks. Seems reasonable.

  23. #23
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    Probably only here that the emergency room is more expensive than than the D5s, maybe not so much in other countries.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    In the world of studded tires, they are pretty weak, but they are infinitely better than no studs. Hope you heal fast.
    My wrathchilds works really well.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Probably only here that the emergency room is more expensive than than the D5s, maybe not so much in other countries.
    It cost $ to construct the waiting rooms we have become accustomed to:


  26. #26
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    Don't look outside, the call to ride may be overwhelming...

    Besides this new snow is all wet anyway
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  27. #27
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    I know! 9 degrees for lows the next few days. Sure makes taking the studded tires off a week ago appear even dumber.
    '
    The bright side is the singletrack is closed and I won't have to put the studded tires back on. (hopefully)

    What's Cheaper, 45N Studded D5's or an ER Visit?-april-bike.jpg
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  28. #28
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    Looks like you may be able to do some morning crust riding!
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

    The tires are the things on your bike that make contact w the trail

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    Follow up appointment today. I feel about 99% fine but doctor says no riding for two more weeks.

    #30daysofbikingNope
    He just wants to be sure you live long enough to pay the bill....
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    It cost $ to construct the waiting rooms we have become accustomed to:

    Is that Sweden?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Is that Sweden?
    No, but then neither is the tax structure. 56.9% for anyone making over 1.5 x the average income is pretty steep. Given the average income in the US is in the $35k range, can you imagine making $52k and paying $29.6k in federal taxes like people do in Sweden? There would be a run on torches and pitchforks.

    I hope the OP is getting good care and that his insurance picks up the bulk of it.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    No, but then neither is the tax structure. 56.9% for anyone making over 1.5 x the average income is pretty steep. Given the average income in the US is in the $35k range, can you imagine making $52k and paying $29.6k in federal taxes like people do in Sweden? There would be a run on torches and pitchforks.

    I hope the OP is getting good care and that his insurance picks up the bulk of it.
    Given the Nordic state's quality of life and rank in happiness, they must be doing something right, not to mention they have fatbiking too.

    Does it matter how much you save in taxes when you can't afford $500,000 in medical costs? Procedures cost so much with so many middle-men with their fingers in the cookie-jar these days that any defense of our health care system is just ludicrous IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    No, but then neither is the tax structure. 56.9% for anyone making over 1.5 x the average income is pretty steep. Given the average income in the US is in the $35k range, can you imagine making $52k and paying $29.6k in federal taxes like people do in Sweden? There would be a run on torches and pitchforks.

    I hope the OP is getting good care and that his insurance picks up the bulk of it.
    It's not just the tax rate that is really important. It is the overall standard of living. From what I can see they are ahead of us by that metric. Sorry for the drift.
    Latitude 61

  34. #34
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    I have a $3,000 deductible and pay about 10% after I meet that. So.....the ER bill will be paid by me out of pocket.

    Although I do have an HSA so it's pre tax dollars.

    So I got that going for me.

    Which is nice.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  35. #35
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    As the family has had its share of injuries over the last few years, safety has become paramount. No more skimping on protective gear...or studded tires. While not studded D5's, we had no problem dropping coin and spending time sinking 400+ gripstuds into our 3 fatbikes. We even justified while purchasing them by saying, "Cheaper than an ER visit". It is my honest belief that these have prevented multiple accidents over the last 2 seasons. They also give me more peace of mind when my son rides his fatbike back and forth from school. I will never run studless in the winter ever again. We're also more likely to ride when the conditions are marginal (re: ice), than we would without studs. Win, win.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  36. #36
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    Yep.

    I rode thousands of miles with those studded tires and never fell. (not all on glare ice obviously) Literally within the first two miles without them and I was concussed.

    I'm one of the least safety conscious people I know. I didn't even wear a helmet when riding bike paths, short trips etc until two years ago.

    Now I'm looking for a new helmet and if it's not MIPS it's not going on my head.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    Yep.

    I rode thousands of miles with those studded tires and never fell. (not all on glare ice obviously) Literally within the first two miles without them and I was concussed.

    I'm one of the least safety conscious people I know. I didn't even wear a helmet when riding bike paths, short trips etc until two years ago.

    Now I'm looking for a new helmet and if it's not MIPS it's not going on my head.
    I caught a branch at about 17mph, no time to react (well that I remember) and was clipped in, slammed my head to the ground. Unconscious for 3-5 min, amnesiac for 15-20 min, and symptoms for about 30 days. Broke my cheekbone as well. CT scan showed all normal no bleeding. I was wearing a MIPS Giro Montaro and cracked it.

    From what I can tell/read, I'm not sure MIPS has been proven. The helmet saved my life, but I'm not sure MIPS did anything for the concussion. It's really hard to say since I got it so bad. I'm 6 months out now and back to riding fast with no issues. I went with a Bell Super 3r MIPS and save the facemask for dumb stuff I shouldn't be riding anyway. I was also interested in the SMith MIPS koy-royd (sp?) too, but the Bell seems very solid and is super comfortable.

    Just some food for thought from someone who just went through a serious concussion with a MIPS helmet.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pOrk View Post

    From what I can tell/read, I'm not sure MIPS has been proven.
    A lot of anecdotal experiences. I remember reading an article that went into great depth about concussions and reduction, the testing they did to come up with MIPS and what it helps with. It's backed up by data. The way that the real world works though is that not every impact will align perfectly with that scenario. I hit a tree that I didn't see at night due to my visor keeping it out of my view until too late, the tree went under the visor and my helmet, impacting right above my eye, nothing the helmet could do and it knocked me off my bike. Luckily I did not have any concussion symptoms and I went in to get x-rays and no orbitals were broken. My eye did swell shut for a few days and I had a nice bump for many months. I decided no visors on night-rides, ever, after that.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pOrk View Post
    I went with a Bell Super 3r MIPS and save the facemask for dumb stuff I shouldn't be riding anyway.
    The whole family wears these all the time now - chinbar included. My wife is still dealing with symptoms 6+ months out from a major concussion - she was wearing a mips helmet too. That helmet saved her life...not sure what the mips did in that instance. I don't even notice the chin bar anymore. Branches, rocks, dogs, cows, moose - you name it - seem to come out of nowhere these days. We haven't tried these in the heat of summer yet, but so far, so good.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  40. #40
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    And the answer is:

    ER Visit

    $350 for an ER Visit

    $450 for Studded Dillinger 5's
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  41. #41
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    Something tells me this is a rare instance of an ER visit coming out so cheap.

    That said, congrats!

  42. #42
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    Very basic visit with no tests performed.

    I crashed at 6:30 am and wasn't seen by the ER doctor until 12:00. He gave me the option to do a CT scan or not. The CT scan would show if there was a bleed. Based on my symptoms (or lack of) and the time frame that had passed he said I was low risk for a bleed.

    I passed on the scan which likely saved a lot.

    My headaches (minor) were gone after about 10 days but I'm certain I'm a bit dumber. I can't recall simple words while talking and have to pause. That's getting better though.

    Also a little more nervous on the bike even though the ice is gone. I was pretty fearless prior.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  43. #43
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    Glad you're doing better. It may take some time, but the fearlessness will likely return.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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