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  1. #1
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    What tire psi are you guys running for hardpack trails??? Do I need to go tubeless???

    Just curious what you guys are running psi wise for hardpack trails? Also did you convert to tubeless if so how do you like it????

  2. #2
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    6-9 psi on Escalators. No tubeless, but thinking about it. Been getting a lot of flats lately.

  3. #3
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    6-7 psi on 27 tip Nates. Tubeless is great, no issues. Can run down at 2-3 in the deep snow and 6-7 on hard pack.

  4. #4
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    I've been around 7 front, 8-8.5 rear; tubeless Floaters. Still experimenting...

  5. #5
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Tubeless is easy and very worthwhile for winter riding with extremely low pressures and it helps in preventing small puncture flats as with thorns.

  6. #6
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    DISCLAIMER: I've never had tubeless bike anything;

    To me, the only substantive reason to go tubeless is if you live in an area with a lot of thorns, goat heads, or other nasties. Makes a lot of sense then, and in fact may rank as a necessity. You may also save some weight, if that is important to you. FOR ME, I still question the ultimate reliability of tubeless, and frankly I am too lazy to mess with it. If we were talking a low volume tire - which for me is pretty much any normal 26er - then tubeless would be the only way for me to run at lower pressures to optimize ride, grip, etc. The bigger the wheel/tire, the less it matters. I could very easily flat 2-3 times per ride on my 26er running as much as 50psi to try and protect the tube/rim. I got to the point that if I thumped the rim, I just stopped and prepared for a tube change, as a snake bite was a virtual certainty. Tubeless likely would have made some sense there, except for the potential of burping pressure all the time. I think I've had maybe 5 flats or less on my Niner in 3 years. I've experienced a total of ONE Fatflat.

    I know a lot of people like to have a baseline for where to set pressures. That's fine, but you will still need to learn how to interpret what is going on in practice at that time under those conditions to really get it optimized. It's a game of flotation/traction -vs- rolling resistance -vs- tube/rim protection. I've found that getting the pressure so that I just avoid thumping the rims is usually the right place to be for the proper balance. From there, and depending on conditions, I may sense that rolling resistance is too high, and so add some air to ease my burden. There is a bit of leeway beyond that until you start to sense that the ride is getting rough or bouncy.

    This winter, a friend with a gauge measured my settings. I had no clue, other than it was working well for the amount of snow and on the trails we were riding. My gauge is how it works and feels. I was surprised to learn that I was at about 9 rear and 6 front; far lower than I expected given my 240lbs. I'm sure that I am at least 3-4 pounds higher now that the snow is gone and I'm able to ride more aggressively.

    Of course, that is using my gauge, so I cant really give you a number.
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  7. #7
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    I run 8/9 (front/back) on husker du's (tubeless) it's quite hilly here and if my rear is under 8 climbing is noticeably harder (dragging a 1.6kg brick - alfine8 hub on back can be tedious sometimes) tubeless is great, feel more connected to the surface.
    Could run a little lower (7/8) but anything less than that and the hudu's can get a bit funny on corners.

  8. #8
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    I weigh about 180 geared to go, currently Escalator rear, Bud front.

    Singletrack non snow, I tend to run about 8 rear, 6 front, and tubeless, love it.

    Snow, down into the 2 to 4 range, depending on conditions.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  9. #9
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    For ST riding 7-10psi range for both. no desire for tubeless.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  10. #10
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    I ride with Bud & Lou or BFL's on Clownshoes. Quite often I'll go out with a freshly installed tire, so it will have anywhere from 10 to 20 psi when I start. I air down until it feels right. On snow, slickrock, sand, packed dirt, and medium packed coarse sand, I always end up at 5 to 6 psi. I check my psi's with a Topeak digital, and like TrailMaker stated, so far I have no desire to try tubeless. My riding weight is around 230#.

    The nice thing about these big fat Surly tubes is that you have lots of room for patches. Fourteen patches and lots of room left. All the holes, except for one snake bite were from one cholla encounter.


  11. #11
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    Depends on the tire.
    BFL(120tpi)on hard pack runs about 5psi.
    Endos(27tpi)run on 8-9psi.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    I air down until it feels right.
    This... it's all about feel. I let air out until I find the the sweet spot for given conditions, rolling resistance, and bump sensitivity. If pressure is too high, the tires get bouncy when the going gets rough and traction suffers. If pressure is too low, the rolling resistance will hold you back on hardpack. I don't think there's a magical number, and I don't bother to use a gauge, but generally, your tires should give quite a bit when you squeeze them.

  13. #13
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    That's a Perfect sales pitch for tubeless.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    That's a Perfect sales pitch for tubeless.
    negative...... tubeless = hawt mess.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  15. #15
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    8 on the rear but on the front I adjust till self steer goes away. usually about 7.5 on BFL and 7.9 on a regular Larry.

    250 lb clyde.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    That's a Perfect sales pitch for tubeless.
    I like to swap back and forth between BFL's and Bud/Lou, so I'm currently not interested. Like I said all but 2 of the patches were from a single encounter with a cholla. I don't normally ride around cholla's.

    There's too many posts on here saying that tubeless isn't worth the effort, and I'm quite lazy.

  17. #17
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    Nate front 8psi, Knard rear 10psi. Q-Tubes ExtraLights. Plan to go tubeless soon.

  18. #18
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    What tire psi are you guys running for hardpack trails??? Do I need to go tubel

    I'm 200lbs kitted up and running 8/9 psi f/r in my 120tpi HuDu's on hardpack. Performance is fantastic.

    I've been catching tons of thorns with them due to all the winter deadfall on my local trails. I'm tempted to go tubeless but I'm hesitant due to the "arts and crafts" nature of most conversions I've seen. If I continue to get so many flats in the coming months I will likely get out the tape and Stans, but I'm hoping things will get better as the trails are cleared.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    That's a Perfect sales pitch for tubeless.
    Those patches must weight you down

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisInYpsi View Post
    I've been catching tons of thorns with them due to all the winter deadfall on my local trails. I'm tempted to go tubeless but I'm hesitant due to the "arts and crafts" nature of most conversions I've seen. If I continue to get so many flats in the coming months I will likely get out the tape and Stans, but I'm hoping things will get better as the trails are cleared.
    I had never run tubeless anything and managed it pretty easily. Was great until I ripped my rear tire on a dirty ass rock/oyster yesterday. Could have put a tube in to get home but had forgot to put the spanner in to remove wheel.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeG View Post
    I've been around 7 front, 8-8.5 rear; tubeless Floaters. Still experimenting...
    Same here, works great so far...
    Last edited by Max24; 03-09-2015 at 12:02 AM.

  21. #21
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    6psi front, 7.5psi rear, Bud and Lou tubeless, 190ish lbs w/ gear.

  22. #22
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    this thread reminds me of the guy who pumped up his Larry on LM up to 80psi until the tire bead finally burst the LM rim.. LMAO!

    edit: found it..

    What tire psi are you guys running for hardpack trails??? Do I need to go tubeless???-68320_10151242627921464_788155826_n.jpg

  23. #23
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    Apparently I run higher than many of us. On hard pack I may start at 12 to 15 psi then lower it on the ride until I hit that sweet spot of fast rolling yet smooth over bumps. I still end up around 9-12 most rides.
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  24. #24
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    I run Husker Du's in the 16-18 range. After seeing what the rest of the world is running...I might need to try lower.

  25. #25
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    Swapping tires is a pitch for tubes

    How so?

  26. #26
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    [QUOTE=crashtestdummy;
    There's too many posts on here saying that tubeless isn't worth the effort, and I'm quite lazy.[/QUOTE]

    I need some references for this statement. And as far as being lazy, I'm too lazy to deal with getting flats and patching tubes.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I need some references for this statement. And as far as being lazy, I'm too lazy to deal with getting flats and patching tubes.
    NOT everyone subscribes to your method of thinking pretty much sums it up. your dead set on wanting everyone to believe as you do and guess what? it ain't happenin.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  28. #28
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    i run 12-15

  29. #29
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    7psi buds, 9psi Hudus.... I only ride dry singletrack and not by choice.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    NOT everyone subscribes to your method of thinking pretty much sums it up. your dead set on wanting everyone to believe as you do and guess what? it ain't happenin.
    I guess it bugs me when people make statements that are false. Like the statement about not being able to change tires if you are running a tubeless setup. And then, someone is too lazy to put a layer of tape on a rim but he will patch a tube more than a dozen times. Don't forget that the OP asked about going tubeless!

    Guys on here that haven't tried tubeless should get both sides. The side of guys who haven't tried it or ones that haven't set them up properly, and then those of us who ride nearly every day and love tubeless because of how reliable it is, how easy it is, and how well they ride at extremely low pressures. Like today, a riding buddy and I were both riding at 2 psi, it's what was needed to ride in the snow today.


  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I guess it bugs me when people make statements that are false. Like the statement about not being able to change tires if you are running a tubeless setup. And then, someone is too lazy to put a layer of tape on a rim but he will patch a tube more than a dozen times. Don't forget that the OP asked about going tubeless!

    Since this is aimed at me, I'll respond. I had the patches, I've been biking for 40 years, so patches come with the hobby. I don't have the needed tape or the sealant. I also know dozens of riders that fight with their tubeless on a regular basis. Even Mike Curiak isn't a fat tubeless convert, and he rides way more fat miles than I do.

    One issue that I have is being able to change between different tires, without a lot of hassle. It seems to me that you will need new sealant every time you swap tires. I don't need a new tube every time I change tires.

    According to another thread, there seems to be minimal weight savings. As far as ride quality, it would need to be significant for me to notice.

    And nobody loves a zealot.

  32. #32
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    I've been thinking about a hybrid approach between tubed and tubeless. Specifically, using a small amount of sealant in a Q-Tube light 2.4 -2.75" tube. Anyone try this? Wondering how much sealant would be enough, and what type to use.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    Since this is aimed at me, I'll respond. I had the patches, I've been biking for 40 years, so patches come with the hobby. I don't have the needed tape or the sealant. I also know dozens of riders that fight with their tubeless on a regular basis. Even Mike Curiak isn't a fat tubeless convert, and he rides way more fat miles than I do.

    One issue that I have is being able to change between different tires, without a lot of hassle. It seems to me that you will need new sealant every time you swap tires. I don't need a new tube every time I change tires.

    According to another thread, there seems to be minimal weight savings. As far as ride quality, it would need to be significant for me to notice.

    And nobody loves a zealot.
    Crash, I'm sorry about being the tubeless zealot and I'm sorry my response included a reference about you. I understand about the years of patching tubes. I worked as a mechanic in a bicycle shop to pay for my racing habit back in the seventies, managed and worked with the opening of two bike stores before opening my own bike shop in the eighties. So, I've patched my share of tubes as well. I've sponsored a ton of rides where people who didn't listen to my advice walked home with double flats.
    I'm sorry, but people that are fighting with tubeless on their fat bikes, aren't doing it correctly. I'm really not bragging, but few people ride as much as I do. For the past year, because of a genetic lung disease, I've taken off from work, and done nothing other than bike. Over my lifetime, I've never had any bike with the lack of issues as with the tubeless fat bike.
    You brought up Mike, he recently was asking about tubeless setups.
    Weight savings had absolutely nothing to do with my desire for tubeless on the fat bike. I can and have patched as many tubes as most and probably more than most who haven't worked in a shop, but I don't want to patch tubes while I want to be riding. On our ride yesterday, the wind chill put the temperature well below zero, and that would not be nice with tire issues.
    As far as ride quality, I think the difference is substantial when riding in marginal snowy conditions. In dirt, the difference is going to be the lack of flats if that is an issue where one rides.
    Last edited by alphazz; 04-13-2013 at 08:54 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I've been thinking about a hybrid approach between tubed and tubeless. Specifically, using a small amount of sealant in a Q-Tube light 2.4 -2.75" tube. Anyone try this? Wondering how much sealant would be enough, and what type to use.
    I just set up BFL's on clown shoes using the Q-tube, a layer of silver foam and sealant. It set up with a hand pump and held over night. Can't test ride until next week though. 29er this weekend.
    But, I'll report back.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Crash, I'm sorry about being the tubeless zealot and I'm sorry my response included a reference about you. I understand about the years of patching tubes. I worked as a mechanic in a bicycle shop to pay for my racing habit back in the seventies, managed and worked with the opening of two bike stores before opening my own bike shop in the eighties. So, I've patched my share of tubes as well. I've sponsored a ton of rides where people who didn't listen to my advice walked home with double flats.
    I'm sorry, but people that are fighting with tubeless on their fat bikes, aren't doing it correctly. I'm really not bragging, but few people ride as much as I do. For the past year, because of a genetic lung disease, I've taken off from work, and done nothing other than bike. Over my lifetime, I've never had any bike with the lack of issues as with the tubeless fat bike.
    You brought up Mike, he recently was asking about tubeless setups.
    Weight savings had absolutely nothing to do with my desire for tubeless on the fat bike. I can and have patched as many tubes as most and probably more than most who haven't worked in a shop, but I don't want to patch tubes while I want to be riding. On our ride yesterday, the wind chill put the temperature well below zero, and that would not be nice with tire issues.
    As far as ride quality, I think the difference is substantial when riding in marginal snowy conditions. In dirt, the difference is going to be the lack of flats if that is an issue where one rides.
    what method are you useing to get tubeless everytime ,,,any info for the on one fatty wheel thanks

  36. #36
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    I use gorilla tape. I see a lot of guys stop or trim the tape on the inside of the rim. I think that it works better to let the tape go over the bead to the outside of the rim, trimming the tape against the outside edge of the rim. When the tire seats it will pull the tape back a little and makes it barely visible. I also used some extra firm self-adhering weather striping on both sides of the rim (3/8 x 3/4). Putting foam in the center of the rim makes it easier for airing up the tire but makes changing the tire harder. I tape over the foam, pulling the tape very tight. Put in a mixture of slime and stans in the bottom of the tire and mount it up. I pull one side of the tire onto the foam as much as possible and pull the other side onto the foam a little (most important near the valve stem) and start pumping. I do coat the bead of the tire and rim with sealant. I make sure that if I use different tapes on the inside for affect, that any tape overlaps by 1/2". The easiest way is to use some really wide Gorilla tape, allowing for no seams inside at all.

    I will be setting up another set for another friend soon so maybe I'll document it a little better.

  37. #37
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    thanks very interested how you do this wouldnt mind few pics on where you put the extra firm self-adhering weather striping on both sides and pulling tape ecte ,,,,well tbh all of it lol ...tried and failed before then gave up

  38. #38
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    Here you go stesteste




    I now trim the tape a little more to the outside of the rim than I did in this photo. Also, if not wanting clear in the middle, I'd use wider gorilla tape and just go all the way across the middle with one piece.

  39. #39
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    8 - 10 psi for dirt trails usually...I dunno though, normally I don't need to put a pump on em for at least 6 - 8 weeks....gorilla tape tubeless & DIY sealant....it's great. 0 flats since using this combo. Hudu's & holy RD's

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline814 View Post
    I run Husker Du's in the 16-18 range. After seeing what the rest of the world is running...I might need to try lower.
    Definitely try lower. I accidentally (pump somehow got switched to bar) ran around 15 psi today and it was terrible. Bike was beating the crap out of me. Back to 6 front and 8 rear and all is well.

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    Do any of you with fat lefties or other front suspension run higher pressure with the suspension fork on than without?

    For those few lucky ones with full suspension fat bikes, what pressures do you run?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeinmemphis View Post
    Just curious what you guys are running psi wise for hardpack trails? Also did you convert to tubeless if so how do you like it????
    I don't use a guage, but I'd guess 9/11psi for dirt trail/road riding. I haven't done a tubeless fat setup yet.
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  43. #43
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    I have settled into 8 psi rear, and 9psi front on my lefty Fatback with HuDu's with tubes. For reference I weigh around 175 - 180. Don't have a very accurate gauge so I can't be exactly sure but it's my best guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuck1 View Post
    I have settled into 8 psi rear, and 9psi front on my lefty Fatback with HuDu's with tubes. For reference I weigh around 175 - 180. Don't have a very accurate gauge so I can't be exactly sure but it's my best guess.
    I was under the impression that most people (including myself) ran 1 or 2 more psi in the REAR. What's the logic behind more pressure in the front?

  45. #45
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    Hey;

    Rigid tire pressures for me are always a compromise between max float and not thumping a rim too hard/often, especially on snow-less surfaces. With a suspension fork, some of the ride quality benefit you used to derive via this air pressure compromise in the tire is now shifted to the fork. So too are you then able to ride more aggressively, taking less notice of what you are running the front tire into, and so the extra pressure is needed to support the tire and protect it, the tube (?), and the rim, from impacts.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
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  46. #46
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    I ride a Surly Neck Romancer with stock tires being Larry upfront and Nate in the back. Both are setup tubeless and run between 7-8 psi on both no matter what I am riding on with great results. We dont get a lot of snow here and have lots of single track with lots of rock and fast chunky descents. I have about 700 miles on the tires and they are showing signs of wear. The front are starting to show stress on the sidewalls and the rear lugs are pretty worn. I hope to get another 400 to 500 miles out of them before I need to replace them. A majority of my rides have been on semi rocky single track and have only had a flat from a stick puncture on the rear tire. I plugged it using a tire plug and added more Stans. No issues with it since.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuck1 View Post
    I have settled into 8 psi rear, and 9psi front on my lefty Fatback with HuDu's with tubes. For reference I weigh around 175 - 180. Don't have a very accurate gauge so I can't be exactly sure but it's my best guess.
    mtuck1, you need to buy that Airace Hercules digital pump at the shop. I bought the first one and it's great. Digital and acurate all the way down to 1 or 2 psi.
    I will give you a great price on it!

  48. #48
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    Not really sure what psi I use. I just lower until it feels right and go from there. Each trip can be different depending on where I'm riding.

    I haven't worried about tubeless for now. If I was constantly getting punctures I'd be more interested.

  49. #49
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    I haven't used a guage on my Fatbike, other than to check that I wasn't exceeding about 35psi when initially seating the tire on the bead and helping it get a more uniform shape, before airing it down to what feels good.

    I guess it would be good to check it, to have a reference for what to set them to initially, but I usually just add some air til they're too hard, then let some out when I get to a trail.

    I have a digital guage that reads down to .5psi for the race car. I guess I should check next time I ride.

    I haven't tried tubeless yet, because I am still waiting to get a flat first. I still have those heavy On-One tubes, so when I do go tubeless, I will definitely feel an improvement. I'l probably drill out the rims too, making it a big weight loss day for the Fatty. Right now, though, I've been more concerned with the weight loss I've been able to achieve for the fatty on the Fatty, and since I usually ride alone, the speed makes little difference, unless I have somewhere specific that I have to go, and a limited amount of time to get there.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Here you go stesteste




    I now trim the tape a little more to the outside of the rim than I did in this photo. Also, if not wanting clear in the middle, I'd use wider gorilla tape and just go all the way across the middle with one piece.
    Alphazz,

    Thanks for posting that. I tried a similar set up in my marge lite rims and the tire bead could not get up and over the foam. I can't get the bead of the tire on the rim if I don't drop one side into themiddle of the rim. How do you get the bead from the center of the rim to over that foam "hump?" How do you keep the gorilla tape from getting creases when putting it on the rim? Multiple pieces or all one piece?

    I would love to go tubless. It works great on my 29er. The low pressure and flat resistance makes it well worth the effort.

    Thanks for any help.

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