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  1. #126
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Thought I'd update here on the rigid fork to keep my stuff together.

    So last week I got the Black Sheep Faith fork and put it on my bike on Friday. Saturday, wife and I go to the Rockburn Skills Park grand opening in Elkridge, Maryland to check it out.



    I was doing a bit of pump-tracking, jumping and rock hopping, and the fork felt good. Fork clamps stayed nice and tight through it all. The tires were pumped a little high and landings were harsher than what I was used to with the Lefty, so I kept dropping the pressure all day until I finally got a flat about 3 hours in. Thankfully it wasn't when I was landing; instead, it poofed while standing around talking to people.



    Sunday, we head to Fountainhead. BIG FUN because of all the air that you inevitably catch. Well, all that jumping around resulted in the fork loosening a few times, necessitating stopping to cinch everything up again. That was a little bit of a bummer.

    I stopped by the bike shop today to buy a compression plug and cap for the bottom of the steerer to help squeeze the assembly together better and hopefully stop the fork's self-loosening tendencies.

    With the close to 3lbs I lost off on the fork diet, it's hard to keep the front end down on the ground now!
    27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000">
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  2. #127
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    So is the Faith fork specially designed for your bike?

  3. #128
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    So is the Faith fork specially designed for your bike?
    Yup.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Thought I'd update here on the rigid fork to keep my stuff together.







    Like it. That looks like a proper mountain bike at this point
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Yup.
    Well, the whole package really is a thing of beauty. Much prefer the faith to the Lefty as far as looks go. My favorite custom bike since my last favorite custom bike.

  6. #131
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    drevil, how does the faith fork compare to the jones truss?

    genuine question, i know the jones v black sheep thing always becomes a can of worms on these forums...

  7. #132
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by octavius View Post
    drevil, how does the faith fork compare to the jones truss?

    genuine question, i know the jones v black sheep thing always becomes a can of worms on these forums...
    Welp, let me preface this by saying I've only had the Black Sheep Faith on for three rides, and I've had the Jones Truss for getting close to 4 years holding up the front of my SpaceFrame. I've never put the Truss on the Vertigo, or the Faith on the Jones.

    The Faith fork has an aluminum steerer tube, while the Jones has an Enve carbon fiber steerer tube. I haven't taken a caliper to measure the diameter of the tubes/fork legs of each fork, but the Faith is visibly smaller. I didn't weigh the Truss when I recently took it off the frame, but the Faith and uncut steerer weighs ~908 grams (I've left it uncut, btw).

    On ride 1 of the Faith (jump park, rockgarden, & pumptrack), it stayed tight. Ride 2 (lots of small jumps and dropoffs), it kept loosening. Ride 3 (urban, benches, stairs, and some singletrack), it stayed tight after I put on that bottom plug and cap. I hope that resolves it.

    The Jones Truss has gotten loose less than a half dozen times in 3.5 years of all kinds of riding.

    Comfort-wise, it's really hard to say. I have to ride the Faith more and I'd have to ride them back to back to be sure. Maybe someday, but I am borrowing the fat front wheel from the Truss to put on the Faith. Guess I gotta build another fatty front so I can rock them both at the same time...if I ever need to?

    Both were made in the U.S. (my Truss by Merlin, but nowadays it's made overseas) and both have flawless welds and finishes. The dropouts and IS brake mount of the Faith are thinner. It is harder to put the wheel into the Faith because the O.L.D. is not wide enough (like 5mm too short), so I have to pull the fork open a little to get it in.

    I think they both cost ~$1100.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Welp, let me preface this by saying I've only had the Black Sheep Faith on for three rides, and I've had the Jones Truss for getting close to 4 years holding up the front of my SpaceFrame. I've never put the Truss on the Vertigo, or the Faith on the Jones.

    The Faith fork has an aluminum steerer tube, while the Jones has an Enve carbon fiber steerer tube. I haven't taken a caliper to measure the diameter of the tubes/fork legs of each fork, but the Faith is visibly smaller. I didn't weigh the Truss when I recently took it off the frame, but the Faith and uncut steerer weighs ~908 grams (I've left it uncut, btw).

    On ride 1 of the Faith (jump park, rockgarden, & pumptrack), it stayed tight. Ride 2 (lots of small jumps and dropoffs), it kept loosening. Ride 3 (urban, benches, stairs, and some singletrack), it stayed tight after I put on that bottom plug and cap. I hope that resolves it.

    The Jones Truss has gotten loose less than a half dozen times in 3.5 years of all kinds of riding.

    Comfort-wise, it's really hard to say. I have to ride the Faith more and I'd have to ride them back to back to be sure. Maybe someday, but I am borrowing the fat front wheel from the Truss to put on the Faith. Guess I gotta build another fatty front so I can rock them both at the same time...if I ever need to?

    Both were made in the U.S. (my Truss by Merlin, but nowadays it's made overseas) and both have flawless welds and finishes. The dropouts and IS brake mount of the Faith are thinner. It is harder to put the wheel into the Faith because the O.L.D. is not wide enough (like 5mm too short), so I have to pull the fork open a little to get it in.

    I think they both cost ~$1100.
    How do you press the crown race onto the steerer tube? (Assuming you use a normal headset)

  9. #134
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    How do you press the crown race onto the steerer tube? (Assuming you use a normal headset)
    With these truss-style forks, there is no race to press on. The key thing to understand is that the steerer is free-floating, i.e., it can go as high up or down below the headtube as you want, as long as the two clamps of the fork and the stem have proper purchase of the steerer tube.

    Instead of a bottom race, imagine two top cups: one on the top, and one flipped upside down and pressed into the bottom of the head tube. Both cups use top compression caps (or if using King, the "Griplock assembly", then you have to tighten the bottom fork clamp, compress the assembly with the top stem cap, tighten the top clamp, then tighten the stem.

    To take apart, you loosen the bolts for the two fork clamps, then the stem, and just pull it all the way out. However, because the top headset caps have "wedge" tightening systems that get tighter as you compress them, pulling the steerer out is an exercise in itself

    Last edited by Drevil; 06-06-2012 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Added picture
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    With these truss-style forks, there is no race to press on. The key thing to understand is that the steerer is free-floating, i.e., it can go as high up or down below the headtube as you want, as long as the two clamps of the fork and the stem have proper purchase of the steerer tube.

    Instead of a bottom race, imagine two top cups: one on the top, and one flipped upside down and pressed into the bottom of the head tube. Both cups use top compression caps (or if using King, the "Griplock assembly", then you have to tighten the bottom fork clamp, compress the assembly with the top stem cap, tighten the top clamp, then tighten the stem.

    To take apart, you loosen the bolts for the two fork clamps, then the stem, and just pull it all the way out. However, because the top headset caps have "wedge" tightening systems that get tighter as you compress them, pulling the steerer out is an exercise in itself
    Aha. Sounds like a clean solution. Does the presence of the clamps above and below cause any problems? Looks like you flipped your stem to the negative postion to compensate. Also, I'd guess that normal A-to-C measurements don't apply?

  11. #136
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Aha. Sounds like a clean solution. Does the presence of the clamps above and below cause any problems? Looks like you flipped your stem to the negative postion to compensate. Also, I'd guess that normal A-to-C measurements don't apply?
    The bars are in a position I'm comfortable with (slightly lower than my saddle), so no, it's not a problem.

    One of the cool things about this type of setup where there is no fixed position crown race is that you can change the A-C by moving headset spacers. The spacers are between the caps and the fork clamps, so moving spacers from the bottom to the top lowers the A-C and taking them from the top and putting them on the bottom increases A-C. Hopefully that makes sense? I'll see if I can find a pic or take one later.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    One of the cool things about this type of setup where there is no fixed position crown race is that you can change the A-C by moving headset spacers. The spacers are between the caps and the fork clamps, so moving spacers from the bottom to the top lowers the A-C and taking them from the top and putting them on the bottom increases A-C. Hopefully that makes sense? I'll see if I can find a pic or take one later.
    I totally get how that would work, as long as you order your fork with extra space between the clamps and your headset stack. I assume that's something you can specify?

  13. #138
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    For the Black Sheep, yes. For the Jones, I don't think so.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  14. #139
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    In 29er mode, with Maxxis Ardent 2.4" tires, it weighs 24.36 lbs:



    The chainstay length in this mode and gearing is 423mm. I can't slam the wheel all the way forward because the seatstay bridge and seat tube limit it a little, but if I ever had the urge, I can probably go more forward with a 2.2" tire since the Ardents seem taller and wider than other 2.3"- 2.4" tires I've had.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  15. #140
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    Oooooh. Things are looking up now. I think you will like it like this a lot

    It's good to have options.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  16. #141
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    great stuff, ive only had experience on my truss. its clearly similar and i know from your posts - you have a jones.

    dont want to hijack the thread - your bike is amazing (for me with the lefty is totally sweet - i want a spin).

  17. #142
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    My Vertigo has been a boatload of fun since I got it a couple of months ago, but there is still one nagging problem: the bottom bracket creaks like a banshee when I am really mashing down on the pedals on uphills. The harder I push, the louder it groans.

    I have a call tag from Phil Wood, and I think they're going to up me to a quad bearing setup. I'm also getting a shorter arm cranks (currently 170mm) because I've gotten used to and like the 165mm length (which Jeff Jones turned me onto). I planned to get the new Middleburn 100mm-width crank, and I already have the Chris King 100mm BB in my possession, but the US distributor of Middleburn (MTBTandems.com) measured the Q of that crank, and it was slightly too narrow. Bummerific.

    I also have a 29er rear wheel built for this bike (Hope 170 and Stans Flow), but I'm unbuilding it and using the rim on another bike. I'm using the hub to build up a Speedway UMA 50mm rim which is slightly narrower than the Marge Lite (65mm) which should round out the cross section and be great for summer use -- which is my impression from others' experience on this board. Incidentally, it should also shave at least a 1/2 pound from the weight, which ain't a bad thing.

    I swapped the Jones Loop bar for a custom Seven bar, which is 720mm wide with 20deg sweep. When I first ordered the bike, I wanted Ti Groovy Luv Handles, but I procrastinated, and now the wait time is at least 3 months. Seven's wait time was a week.

    The new bar feels good so far. With the Jones I had a 90mm stem, but the Seven requires a 70mm to keep the center of the grips at the same position. I'm not sure if I feel a little squished at this point. Need to put in more saddle time and adjust if necessary.






    Overall, the bike is awesome, except for the infernal creak. I'll be sending in my bottom bracket in a couple of weeks after the races and events die down. Sucks because there isn't a cheap replacement I can use in the mean time, thus putting the fatty out of commission until it returns. BTW, I think there's only been two dirt rides on the other bikes since I got the Vertigo.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post





    16.5" chainstays with the current gear ratio, with a little room to go even shorter
    holy sht, you reading my mind?
    short chainsty + lefty is exactly what i want
    after riding a short stay 29er, i can never go back
    this much handle awesome

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Just as a note, you don't need to build Lefty into offset drilling - this is crosslaced 3x:

    The USChopper 100mm rim is available in silver (the one above was powdercoated)
    Rim Only 26 x 4 Silver - Cycles U.S. LLC/Choppers U.S.
    You do have to get a P321 36h hub, since the rims are 36h only. 65, 80, and 100mm width.
    Wadester,

    I'm ordering a lefty for my steel Fatback and will be building the wheel myself. I have a Weinmann DHL 100, 32h rim. In order to build it conventionally, I would have to drill holes. Not that big of a deal, but you have an alternative that I'd like to at least understand how you calculate spoke length.

    Thanks
    Steel Fatback

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrkgstiff View Post
    Wadester,

    I'm ordering a lefty for my steel Fatback and will be building the wheel myself. I have a Weinmann DHL 100, 32h rim. In order to build it conventionally, I would have to drill holes. Not that big of a deal, but you have an alternative that I'd like to at least understand how you calculate spoke length.

    Thanks
    The tool to use is Freespoke

    This will let you put in offsets for each spoke hole line and for the hub individually. If you're crosslacing the spoke hole offsets go in as negatives - if you're just doing an offset lace along a single line, one offset positive the other negative. I don't recall pos/neg hub offset for the Lefty hub - but there is a nice graphic that let's you see exactly what you're asking for, and a simple block to input the value. Freespoke is very good for letting you play "what if" before you buy components.

    Notes: If it ain't working, click on "clear session". When selecting hubs and rims from the database, I have had to both "select" and "add to bench" to get the data into the calculator. I note that since I was using USC 100's which aren't in the database - I would select the Surly Clownshoe and then modify the numbers as needed. Also, use the full calculator to get the good features.

    Good Luck!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  21. #146
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Almost a year since I've had this thing, and today I changed it up. A couple of days ago, I picked up some 29" Surly Rabbit Hole rims, 120 TPI Knards, and anything else I needed to get this setup rolling. Stayed up until about 4 this morning building it all up and throwing it on the frame, then got up too early to spin it all out:


    Vertigo Fat Bike with 29+" x 3" tires by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Twist by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Berms by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Seat Tube Proximity by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Seatstay Brace by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Room to go Back by bundokbiker, on Flickr
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  22. #147
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    Drevil, your bike is my favorite bike on MTBR. I love it as fat, 29, truss, lefty. Color is perfect. Build is beautiful. It just seems to really work well. Did you figure out the BB creaking issue?
    Out of all the setups you've had, do you have a favorite or go to build?

  23. #148
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    Vertigo Cycles Fatbike

    Thaaaaaats a tight fit.....foresee issues?

  24. #149
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakedbabytoes View Post
    Drevil, your bike is my favorite bike on MTBR. I love it as fat, 29, truss, lefty. Color is perfect. Build is beautiful. It just seems to really work well. Did you figure out the BB creaking issue?
    Out of all the setups you've had, do you have a favorite or go to build?
    Thanks! I did figure out the BB issue, I think. The Phil Wood Ti BB might just not be a good fit for my riding style, it being light, long, and flexy fighting against my jumpy chubster self. It's possibly bending/flexing a teensy bit in there, which tweaks the bearings at angles it wasn't meant to. Basically, the balls are crying for mercy It's been creak-free since I last put it back together around 6 months ago... until yesterday.

    I have plans to switch my wife's 2-piece Middleburn RS-8 cranks & King BB for my RS-7 3-piece to see if it fits. If it does, I'll keep it. My cranks are 165mm and hers are 170mm, and she said she wouldn't notice the difference. She doesn't jump around as much, so mine should be fine for her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    Thaaaaaats a tight fit.....foresee issues?
    If I rode in mud or gravel, it probably would be. However, I knew that I'd be in a smoothish groomed park yesterday (Fountainhead in Northern VA), where there isn't much of either of those, so I didn't sweat it. I also posted a pic of the dropout to illustrate I did have some room to move the wheel back if I wanted to. I measured the chainstay length this morning because a couple of buds asked, and it's 427mm

    ADDED: Forgot to answer NBT's question of my fav setup. I haven't spent a lot of time in the 29er mode last summer since I figured I already have enough 29ers, so what was the point?

    The 29+ (RH rims and Knards) was cool, but I only put a few hours on it yesterday for the first time. The setup definitely threw me off though, leading me to almost crash a few times. I just have to get used to it.

    So that leaves me with the regular ol' fat bike setup, which is my favorite. A juicy Nate up front with the Truss fork, and the Husker Du rear. Slower? Yes. Do I care? 97% of the time, no.
    Last edited by Drevil; 03-25-2013 at 05:05 AM.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | bikecentric | ssoft

  25. #150
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    RAD ricky!....

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