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  1. #1
    Oslo, Norway
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    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight

    Vee-Rubber just emailed me the official weights of the new 4.7 Snowshoe that I designed with them (they will sell it to anyone, though, except to other Norwegian bike brands, as per agreement)

    Must admit that I was surprised at the weight.
    Espen Wethe
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Vee-Rubber just emailed me the official weights of the new 4.7 Snowshoe that I designed with them (they will sell it to anyone, though, except to other Norwegian bike brands, as per agreement)

    Must admit that I was surprised at the weight.

    all that and no chips?? why post about it but leave it out?
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  3. #3
    Oslo, Norway
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    Alrighty, good to see that folks are still interested in the data

    Lightest version, 120tpi, folding, new silica compound edition comes in at 1260g
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  4. #4
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    I could not believe the weight (and need to put it on my personal scale first), but Vee have so far been very conservative with claims.
    For example: 120tpi Mission is claimed at 1430, while every one (and that is many) that I have weighed have come in between 1320 and 1420g, with a bunch of the latest ones clustered around 1420 +/-5g, so obviously a controlled manufacturing process and lower weight than claimed, which is extremely rare when it comes to tires.

    My first samples are on their way and I will post pics on the scales and mounted on bikes vs. Mission, etc. once I get them.

    Just changed the spec on our Mk3 bikes from Mission to Snowshoe, and saved 320g by going from 4.0 to 4.7. That is a decent exchange in my book. Should take our Mk3 Mammut F3 very close to sub 25lbs on 103mms and 4.7.
    Norwegians can preorder it for $2100 (plus sales tax). They must be allowed some perks up here in the dark and frozen sub Arctic winter.
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  5. #5
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    det aer dejligt det that is awesome news!

  6. #6
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    Count me in for two.
    --Peace

  7. #7
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    I am....well lets just say very excited right now. Now all we need is some real life measurements.

  8. #8
    bigger than you.
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    Looks like my next front tire. Any word on when they'll be available to the public?
    Last edited by Gigantic; 10-02-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I am....well lets just say very excited right now. Now all we need is some real life measurements.
    Exactly! Count me in as well!
    Last edited by Max24; 03-07-2015 at 07:59 AM.

  10. #10
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    EspenW, did you say in another thread that all of these tires will be offered with holes for studs, or that both options will be available.

  11. #11
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    These would just come in time, well, if they are available next month. Hopefully they have the same price point as the Floaters.
    Holes for studs, oh yeah, piercing nips. How close can you get with your bike?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgould View Post
    How close can you get with your bike?

    Some things we just don't talk about

    And yes if the tire is a good tire and they come out for a decent price I might even be able to afford to stock a few extra. This could really change the fat tire market or it could flop we will see. So far it's looking good but we need some hard numbers to see if they will fit all the 170mm frames.
    Last edited by bdundee; 10-03-2013 at 07:48 PM.

  13. #13
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    most importantly they weigh as advertised / claimed because we know the devist8ers did not do either by a long shot.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  14. #14
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    Will these fit on the rear of a Pugsley with a RD rim?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgould View Post
    Holes for studs, oh yeah, piercing nips. How close can you get with your bike?
    I know you're kidding around, but for those who might not know, from what I've read these tires are desgined to be run with studs. Here's a quote from EspenW in another post:

    We made it slightly smaller than the Bud/Lou in order to fit all those frames where Lou just barely don't fit. In addition, it will have holes for up to 300 studs (like the Escalator, just more volume and more studs)

    I'd be wondering if there is more than one model. With holes and without.

  16. #16
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    Remember... it's "Vee Tire" now... not "Vee Rubber". Awesome on the weight.

    They don't look like they have holes for studs though... or am I missing something?

    <a href="http://fat-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/fat-bikes-at-interbike-2693-600x800.jpg" target="blank"><img src="http://fat-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/fat-bikes-at-interbike-2693-600x800.jpg" width="400">
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  17. #17
    Oslo, Norway
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    Looks like the first production run will be w/o stud pockets, unfortunately, but I will put some pressure on them to have it incorporated on the later runs.
    I'm confident that the weight is legit, even though it is pretty amazing. As mentioned, everything that I have weighed from them since last fall (tons of Mission, Vee-8s, Speedsters have been at least 10g lower than claimed weight, so I will not be surprised to see these below 1250, and even lower once we get the 300 stud pockets incorporated. Will likely be one studable and a regular version.

    Pugsley on RD rim: I doubt it, as if I recall correctly, the BFL, which is ''only'' a true 4.5 on 100mm rim barely fits. Snowshoe is specified as a true 4.7 on a hundred.

    It should fit those frames where Lou is just a little too big. Like our MK2 bikes. That is why I sepcified Snowhoe at a true 4.7 instead of 4.8 and limited knob height to 6mm vs 7mm on Lou. Slightly more space so that more people can run monsters bigger than 4.5.

    It will also be interesting to see the performance of their new Silica compound. Silica is used in auto winter tires (of the Nordic type) in order to keep them soft when the temps drop.
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Pugsley on RD rim: I doubt it, as if I recall correctly, the BFL, which is ''only'' a true 4.5 on 100mm rim barely fits. Snowshoe is specified as a true 4.7 on a hundred.

    It should fit those frames where Lou is just a little too big. Like our MK2 bikes. That is why I sepcified Snowhoe at a true 4.7 instead of 4.8 and limited knob height to 6mm vs 7mm on Lou. Slightly more space so that more people can run monsters bigger than 4.5.
    I'm eagerly awaiting word on whether they will fit on alu Beargrease with RD
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  19. #19
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    I'm afraid these will be to big for my 170 fatback on hundies anyway.

  20. #20
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    I'm thinking that one of these on the front and an On-One Floater on the rear would be a great pair for my Mukluk 2 in snow. The Larry/BFL combo that I have on there now is good, but I'd like some more traction for when the snow isn't packed.

  21. #21
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    This looks like the trick for the rear of my 2012 Mukluk. When I run my Nate I wish for more volume, when I run my BFL I wish for more grip, and a Lou sort of fits but with almost no clearance. The snowshoe looks like the kind of tire I was hoping. Someone would step up and make.

    Nice work! Here is to hoping this tire won't be vaporware like some other tire offerings in the past.

  22. #22
    Oslo, Norway
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    We'll have 3 pairs of Vee Snowshoes up here in Norway next week, and I'll throw them all on our official scale.
    Bad news is that the first production run will not have the stud pockets that we originally spec'ed. Reason was that Vee wanted to keep the cost and time to market down for the first production runs, in order to get a good production volume, and to get them on some OEM specs (in addition to Diamant and Nakamura) right away.
    Production lead time will be 45-60 days, so they could be available fairly quickly.
    Our deal with Vee was that we helped them with design and spec of the Snowshoe, as well as providing a guarantee of us byuing a minimum quantity, while they covered the mold and tooling cost. If we had covered that cost, it would have been our exclusive tire (like the Vee made Floater is exclusive to On-One and Sterling is to Fatback). Since we currently only serve the Norwegian market, and already got exclusivity for Snowehoe in that market, paying for the mold cost and thus worldwide exclusivity would not make sense.
    (We are making arrangements with an Australian distributor for Diamant Mammut fatbikes, though, so things are happening with regards to sales abroad)

    Vee is considering offering a studable Snowshoe for the second production run, but they might need some convincing.
    Thus, if you want such a tire, send them an email. They are listening

    Here is an official pic of the Snowshoe, as well as showing them on a nice Borealis carbon bike:

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-snowshoe.jpg
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  23. #23
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    Any idea on pricing?

  24. #24
    JYB
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    Anybody else notice that new Vee option for 29+ up there!

  25. #25
    bhc
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    I missed that. We need details on that one please.

  26. #26
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    Yeah I'm all over that 29x3 Vee8...and I don't even have a bike that will fit them. Yet.
    Jason
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  27. #27
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    Interesting Vee8 for as spares for as one of my Knards ges damaged... any news on availability?

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4

  28. #28
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    I am very interested to compare the snowshoe with a Lou. Both would fit buy which would have better traction. ..

    H.D.

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  29. #29
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    In addition to the scale time, can the snowshoe see time on a clown shoe with calipers on it?

    Many thanks.

  30. #30
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    Just when i talk myself into Bud for the necro-pugs... veetire bumps the anti...
    more more more...
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  31. #31
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    Would the softer silica compound be an issue on trail rides? Would it's longevity be much shorter than a Bud or a Lou? I'd like something bigger than 3.8 but probably can't quite fit a Lou(don't have my frame in hand yet to measure). This slightly smaller size intrigues me These or the Fatback 4.2 coming out next spring are my two front runners.

  32. #32
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    Totally off the subject but is anyone ever going to make a sand specific fatbike tire? I was around in the 70's when paddle tires appeared on dune buggies and revolutionized the sport.
    A sand specific fatbike rear tire would need to be mostly treadless to increase the float on sand. The wider the better of course. Does anyone have any experience with bald fat tires on sand?

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-fatsand.jpg

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.b. View Post
    Totally off the subject but is anyone ever going to make a sand specific fatbike tire? I was around in the 70's when paddle tires appeared on dune buggies and revolutionized the sport.
    A sand specific fatbike rear tire would need to be mostly treadless to increase the float on sand. The wider the better of course. Does anyone have any experience with bald fat tires on sand?
    totally not necessary and would be of no benefit over a similar sized tire like BFL.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.b. View Post
    Totally off the subject but is anyone ever going to make a sand specific fatbike tire? I was around in the 70's when paddle tires appeared on dune buggies and revolutionized the sport.
    A sand specific fatbike rear tire would need to be mostly treadless to increase the float on sand. The wider the better of course. Does anyone have any experience with bald fat tires on sand?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wanna buy my unused endomorph?

  35. #35
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    I've been told by Vee there is also another rubber in the pipeline, H-Billie 4.25"- ready in Nov. Still trying to hunt a pic down but no luck so far.

    Really hope the Snowshoes will be available soon.. .treads look very agreeable on trails too (not sure about durability). nice good vol rubbers for running wider rims are still kinda limited. I can't really justify the price of the Bud and Lou now with shipping to where i am now...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Wanna buy my unused endomorph?
    If it came as a 4.7 or 4.8 I would be on it.

  37. #37
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    wondering if they might actually measure more line 4.5" on a 70 mm rim? hence fitting my 170 rear end.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan View Post
    wondering if they might actually measure more line 4.5" on a 70 mm rim? hence fitting my 170 rear end.
    I hope so as well but all has been silent.

  39. #39
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    Any word on the cost?

  40. #40
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    170 9zero7 + fork of many names

    on one hand i'm trying to NOT buy a 190mm hub frameset since my 170 hubbed 907 is awesome 85% of the year. Right now i'm on MargeLites w Nates and on the front i've got the 'fork of many names'.
    Any guesses if the snowshoes on Marge Lites will fit between the stays?

    if it in fact would fit then i'd be fine 99% of the time!

  41. #41
    Oslo, Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    Any word on the cost?
    $110-120 retail in the US for the top of the line version from what I hear
    Espen Wethe
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  42. #42
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    They have arrived (will mount on rims soonish):

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-snowshoe-1199g.jpg
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    They have arrived (will mount on rims soonish):
    WOW I'm in depending on size of course!!

    P.S. Thank you so much Espen!! Oh and get us some actual measurements and we will forever be in you debt

  44. #44
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    Mount that bad boy up on a RD and CS and take some pics and measurments!!

    Espen W nominated for most helpfull bike insider on mtbr?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    $110-120 retail in the US for the top of the line version from what I hear
    Nice that the price point will be reasonable. Thanks!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Mount that bad boy up on a RD and CS and take some pics and measurments!!
    Hehe, RD and CS are no-no words around this office
    However, I will mount them on our very own C4 100mm and new 103mm hoops as well
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  47. #47
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    So excited to hear the actual sizes I'm almost giddy. These will either save me a bunch of $$$$ or cost me a bunch! Ether way it will be fun I guess.

  48. #48
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    I need to modify/extend the jaws of my caliper in order to ge a true reading, but seems to be very close to 114mm that Vee lists. On one of their spec sheets, they list 114mm on a 93mm rim, and on the CAD drawing, it lists 114mm on a 100mm rim, so this refers to inside and outside width, but official number is 114mm on 100mm rim.
    Surlys official data for BFL is the same 114mm (4.48'') on 100mm rim and as mentioned, 119mm (4.68'') for Bud on a 100mm rim.

    I originally told Vee to make it fit right between a Mission on a 100mm (approx. 110mm)and a Bud on same size rim, so it seems spot on.
    Think of it as a On-One Floater in BFL size, but 300g lighter (note that I got a hand picked pair of Snowshoes and Floaters sometime weigh less than the claimed 1498)
    Knob height is approx. 4.6mm (vs 2.5mm on the Mission).

    They will undoubtly grow somewhat after being inflated for a few days, and I will set them up tubeless on our C4 103mm rims. That will have them expand further.

    I originally specified them to have 300 holes for studs, so hopefully the 2nd generation will have a studable version. If ya'll want that, let Vee know
    Espen Wethe
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  49. #49
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    Thanks!! I use a big c clamp then measure the clamp opening.

  50. #50
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    Brilliant idea right there, Mr. bdundee
    Will do so.
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  51. #51
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    So knob size (cross section) is larger than BFL, but knob height is basically the same as BFL? So like 2/3 the knob height of Bud/Lou. Not quite the bud/Lou alternative that many of us were hoping for with the snowshoe- sounds like more of a BFL alternative.

  52. #52
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    would be interesting if they fit in the back of the onone fatty on 70mm rims. hmm.

  53. #53
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    Huh, I'm a little disappointed in the knob height. You has mentioned in an earlier post that you had restricted the knob height to less than 6mm. The difference between traction in loose stuff between 4mm knobs and 6mm knobs is pretty dramatic especially on off camber terrain.

  54. #54
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    Knob height is approx. 4.6mm. We had originally specified 6mm, so not quite as tall as originally planned, but this is the same as the On-One (Vee) Floater.
    Casing width wise, they are right on target. I specified them to be right in between what Mission measures on a 100 (110mm) and Lou on the same rim (118). They seem to be 114-115mm freshly inflated and will grow somewhat.
    Rubber feels soft and sticky (54a vs 68a on Mission and 60a on most Surly). In addition, the top of the line version has a Silica compound that keeps the rubber soft in freezing temps (same as used on studless snowtires for cars)
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  55. #55
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    I would be very interested to see how the Nate would fair against the SS...given that the Nate has taller lugs, but the SS has softer rubber.

    tri-tele- I don't think 1.4mm is going to be noticable in-any-way-shape-or-form. I don't even know if 2mm is going to do much in snow.

  56. #56
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    Here is a pic of Snowshoe vs. Mission, both on 100mm rims, as well as a closeup pic of Snowshoe (on a 100mm) in the Mk2 Mammut fork. Note: the knobs look (much) shallower than in real life on the closeup pic. They are as tall (or taller) than on the On-One Floater

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-snowshoe-4.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-snowshoe2.jpg
    Espen Wethe
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    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  57. #57
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    I noticed a big difference in the handling of my 907 when I moved from BFLs to an escalator/dillinger set-up. I had less volume, but a lot more traction and better tracking with the 45nrth combo than I did with the BFLs. All I can attribute that to more knobage.

  58. #58
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    Dillinger has 4mm center knobs if I remember correctly.
    Can't remember the know height on the BFL. Anyone?
    Espen Wethe
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  59. #59
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    I am not having any luck looking up the knob height on the BFLs.


    Edit: Dillingers have 4 mill center knobs and 6 mill shoulder knobs according to 45nrth blog post.
    Last edited by tri-tele; 10-23-2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: fact checked

  60. #60
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    Checked now and Dillinger has 4mm center knobs and 6mm side knobs.
    Espen Wethe
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  61. #61
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    Re: Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight

    Sort of like a big fat husker du. I like it.

    --Lars
    --Peace

  62. #62
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    Looks good to me! What is the overall diameter?
    Jason
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Sort of like a big fat husker du. I like it.

    --Lars
    Yup, that is not too far off, but even more like a fatter (and much lighter) Floater.
    (not so strange, as both are Vee tires).

    One thing that need revision is the placement of the side knobs. Knob width is too narrow, so they need to be moved further down the sidewall.
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    Looks good to me! What is the overall diameter?
    Vee lists 743mm. I haven't measured the OD, but seems substantially bigger than that, so I wonder if they measured it differently than Innova (Surly)
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post

    One thing that need revision is the placement of the side knobs. Knob width is too narrow, so they need to be moved further down the sidewall.
    Fatback kinda did the same thing with the placement of the side knobs on their new tires. Is this what the final production run will look like or is there time for this to change?

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    Took some more pics and did some more measurements:
    Brought out the digital caliper and with some quick eyeballing (due to the jaws of the calipers ot extending far enough) got to 4.5'' (which turned out to be spot on).
    Then rigged up an offcial max casing width measuring station that worked quite well. Got 4.5'' on the Snowshoe on the 100mm rim. That is exactly the casing width of BFL and 0.18'' less than the official width of Bud (4.68 according to Surly).
    Also measured a Mission at low pressure and got 4.3'' on a 100mm. In other words, Snowshoe was smack in the middle of Mission and Bud, just like I ordered.
    Also a pic of Snowshoe on a Mk2 Mammut and Mission on the 25lb Mk3 Mammut F3 (it will have Snowshoe stock)
    As well as a rear pic of the Snowshoe mounted on the Mk2 bike.

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_005-3-.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_006-3-.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_008-3-.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_009-3-.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_010-3-.jpgVee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131023_011-3-.jpg
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Fatback kinda did the same thing with the placement of the side knobs on their new tires. Is this what the final production run will look like or is there time for this to change?
    I'm checking that with Vee as we speak. They must have had some kind of logic behind that decision. I was the one who initiated the development of the tire, as well as giving the initial design specs, but since Vee owns the mold, they were, of course, free to do whatever they wanted to. I guess that they consulted with numerous other OEM customers, and that the design that we see is the result of that.
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

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    I had to register just for this but where can I buy this tyre? You mentioned you're distributing in Norway, can you ship to other Nordic countries? What about price? What is the timeframe for the stud holes to be added?

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    Thank you, Espen, for all of your help. I'm now a Diamant fan, and just months ago I had never heard of you.

    ============

    PS: Speaking of helpfulness, try not to be helpful on the Fat-Bike.com FB page. They posted a pic of this tire. As expected, many people asked questions about the tire. I responded, citing Espen here on weight, width, etc. I said the info came from him, that he originally spec'd the tire, and gave his measurements. Now, my comments were deleted and I'm banned from the page.

    Their rude behavior has me really discouraged, and quite frankly I want nothing to do with their site ever again. Screw World Fatbike Day, which I had been very excited about.
    Last edited by SocratesDiedTrolling; 10-25-2013 at 02:17 AM.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesDiedTrolling View Post
    Thank you, Espen, for all of your help. I'm now a Diamant fan, and just months ago I had never heard of you.

    ============

    PS: Speaking of helpfulness, try not to be helpful on the Fat-Bike.com FB page. They posted a pic of this tire. As expected, many people asked questions about the tire. I responded, citing Espen here on weight, width, etc. I said the info came from him, that he originally spec'd the tire, and gave his measurements. Now, my comments were deleted and I'm banned from the page.

    Their rude behavior has me really discouraged, and quite frankly I want nothing to do with their site ever again. Screw World Fatbike Day, which I had been very excited about.


    Facebook is dumb.

  71. #71
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    Where would I be able to obtain a pair from Belgium?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    Facebook is dumb.
    You make a valid point.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDTVdevil View Post
    Where would I be able to obtain a pair from Belgium?
    I'll gladly do a tire for Westvletreren beer swap.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesDiedTrolling View Post

    PS: Speaking of helpfulness, try not to be helpful on the Fat-Bike.com FB page. They posted a pic of this tire. As expected, many people asked questions about the tire. I responded, citing Espen here on weight, width, etc. I said the info came from him, that he originally spec'd the tire, and gave his measurements. Now, my comments were deleted and I'm banned from the page.

    Their rude behavior has me really discouraged, and quite frankly I want nothing to do with their site ever again. Screw World Fatbike Day, which I had been very excited about.
    You realize the person who started the fat-bike.com website and I believe runs the facebook page too, is also the main forum mod for this section right? And also one of the go-to sources for all fat bike news and info, right? They go to all the shows, get exclusives, first-rides, and definitely know more than you on the subject. Your comment is the first I have ever heard of being negative about them. I'm guessing you did something else.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    You realize the person who started the fat-bike.com website and I believe runs the facebook page too, is also the main forum mod for this section right? And also one of the go-to sources for all fat bike news and info, right? Your comment is the first I have ever heard of being negative about them. I'm guessing you did something else.
    Maybe he is just the first with enough ball$ to come forward.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Maybe he is just the first with enough ball$ to come forward.
    Come forward on what?
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesDiedTrolling View Post
    Thank you, Espen, for all of your help. I'm now a Diamant fan, and just months ago I had never heard of you.

    ============

    PS: Speaking of helpfulness, try not to be helpful on the Fat-Bike.com FB page. They posted a pic of this tire. As expected, many people asked questions about the tire. I responded, citing Espen here on weight, width, etc. I said the info came from him, that he originally spec'd the tire, and gave his measurements. Now, my comments were deleted and I'm banned from the page.

    Their rude behavior has me really discouraged, and quite frankly I want nothing to do with their site ever again. Screw World Fatbike Day, which I had been very excited about.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here as a blogger and social media consultant. I'd wager that they want to direct traffic to fat-bike.com, not MTBR, which is why your content was deleted from their page. I can relate- there are a few blogs that I won't allow content from, in posts on my facebook page, too. Deleting was maybe a bit extreme; personally, I might have hidden it, instead. As for blocking you? Given how butt-hurt you're acting here, maybe it's not them, it's you? Again, their behavior was maybe a bit extreme, but we've got no context as to what you've posted previously.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Come forward on what?
    To talk bad about the king silly

    edit: I do understand what Fat-bike.com is doing and that's trying to get us good info while trying to make enough cash to fund the site which is nearly impossible. So the funneling of all pertinent info through their site is very important to their survival and to get as many hits as possible. Maybe they should start their own Fat forum?

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    As promised, I mounted the Snowshoe on my 103mm C4 rim (still a prototype), and as expected, the tire grew to more than 4.6''
    I noticed something interesting, that was that it measured this wide without being fully seated. The side that seated properly bulged far more than the other side, so there is definitely more width to be had when I seat them properly. Checked the one on the 100mm rim as well, and same story, had not popped out all the way. Will redo both with dishwashing liquid as lubricant between rim and bead. I think this is an important part of the reason why tires measure wider when running tubeless, as the tubes will pinch the bead more and keep them from extending all the way out and up on the rimseat.

    NOTE: As mentioned before, the jaws on the caliper does not extend down to the point of max casing width, so I extended them by taping an allen key to each jaw. Then zeroed/reset the caliper at its new 0 point. This made measurements a snap.
    I also measured the casing width of my Nokian Extreme 294 studded tires. They are a claimed 2.1''. max casing width was barely 1.8'', ie 15% off.

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-wp_20131025_010-3-.jpg

    Vee-Rubber Snowshoe 4.7 weight-nokian-294.jpg
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
    (Kindernay XIV 14 speed internal gear hub with hydraulic sequential shifters)

  80. #80
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    Wow that's fairly big, thanks!!

  81. #81
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    I wonder if these will fit an offset pugsley fork with Marge Lites?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    I wonder if these will fit an offset pugsley fork with Marge Lites?
    Now this is what we should be talking about.

    I would say yes and maybe even on the back with the right crankset and minus a cog. I might try em on my wifes pugs. Heck people have used BFL's and this isn't really any bigger. Oh I see a parts swap in my future and new parts for me

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    You realize the person who started the fat-bike.com website and I believe runs the facebook page too, is also the main forum mod for this section right? And also one of the go-to sources for all fat bike news and info, right? They go to all the shows, get exclusives, first-rides, and definitely know more than you on the subject. Your comment is the first I have ever heard of being negative about them. I'm guessing you did something else.
    Yes, I know this, and that is part of why I was scared to tell the truth here. I originally deleted my comment about the incident because I was afraid. It just felt wrong, though. So, I decided I shouldn't be afraid, and getting it off my chest was probably healthier than bottling it up.

    Also, I don't know what their knowledge about fat-bikes has to do with them being a nice person. The two are logically and practically independent.

    I have considered why they did what they did, and have a few theories. (i) I did leave a long comment, maybe they don't like that. (ii) I did mention Espen, his job, and his relationship to the tire, as part of my citing him as a source for my information. Perhaps they don't like you mentioning bicycle companies. (iii) I never mentioned MTBR, though he probably knew that's where I would know Espen from. Perhaps they don't like people getting info from here and sharing it there before they do.

    I really don't know, as they never said a word to me. I posted, my very first and only time in a thread on their FB page, answering sincerely the sincere questions people had about the tire. I was just trying to be helpful. And the thanks I get is being deleted and banned from the page without warning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb here as a blogger and social media consultant. I'd wager that they want to direct traffic to fat-bike.com, not MTBR, which is why your content was deleted from their page. I can relate- there are a few blogs that I won't allow content from, in posts on my facebook page, too. Deleting was maybe a bit extreme; personally, I might have hidden it, instead. As for blocking you? Given how butt-hurt you're acting here, maybe it's not them, it's you? Again, their behavior was maybe a bit extreme, but we've got no context as to what you've posted previously.
    I considered that, and you're probably correct as to their motivation. I even considered that when writing my comment, and made sure not to mention MTBR directly. I was not trying to funnel people to MTBR, hence not mentioning it by name. I mentioned Espen to cite my source. Perhaps that was enough of a connection to upset them. I suppose someone involved here, like Gomez himself, would know that's where Espen has been posting his data.

    A far as previous behavior, I had just liked their page the day before, and this was the first time, and only time, I contributed anything to it.

    As far as me being butthurt... I was feeling hurt because I like the bikes, and I like the community. I was just trying to be helpful and was treated very rudely. My butt hurts because someone slammed a door on it.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    I'll gladly do a tire for Westvletreren beer swap.
    Got some West-Fleteren XII but it stays safely guarded in my cellar

  85. #85
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    SO WILL THESE TIRES FIT ON THE BACK OF A PUGSLEY FRAME ON 80MM RIMS?

    Because if so, I want me one.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesDiedTrolling View Post
    ... I was feeling hurt because I like the bikes, and I like the community. I was just trying to be helpful and was treated very rudely.
    You are not the first person to find their behavior needlessly intemperate or rude.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    You are not the first person to find their behavior needlessly intemperate or rude.
    Thanks for the empathy, kind sir. I received private messages from two other members saying something similar. That actually helped give me the courage to keep my comment here, which I did delete for a while. But, hey, this was a fresh wound last night and I've slept on it, healed a bit, and am moving on. Now, I'm just defending myself here from those who are questioning my character.

    The only part I will take back is "screw GFBD." I already have plans with some buddies for some singletrack on GFBD, and I'm not going to bail on it just because the people who chose the date were rude to me. I will bike, and I will have fun, and not worry about them. 'Tis the point, right?

    So, to get back on track... I sure hope these Snowshoes are available in time for GFBD!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesDiedTrolling View Post
    Yes, I know this, and that is part of why I was scared to tell the truth here. I originally deleted my comment about the incident because I was afraid. It just felt wrong, though. So, I decided I shouldn't be afraid, and getting it off my chest was probably healthier than bottling it up.

    Also, I don't know what their knowledge about fat-bikes has to do with them being a nice person. The two are logically and practically independent.

    I have considered why they did what they did, and have a few theories. (i) I did leave a long comment, maybe they don't like that. (ii) I did mention Espen, his job, and his relationship to the tire, as part of my citing him as a source for my information. Perhaps they don't like you mentioning bicycle companies. (iii) I never mentioned MTBR, though he probably knew that's where I would know Espen from. Perhaps they don't like people getting info from here and sharing it there before they do.

    I really don't know, as they never said a word to me. I posted, my very first and only time in a thread on their FB page, answering sincerely the sincere questions people had about the tire. I was just trying to be helpful. And the thanks I get is being deleted and banned from the page without warning.



    I considered that, and you're probably correct as to their motivation. I even considered that when writing my comment, and made sure not to mention MTBR directly. I was not trying to funnel people to MTBR, hence not mentioning it by name. I mentioned Espen to cite my source. Perhaps that was enough of a connection to upset them. I suppose someone involved here, like Gomez himself, would know that's where Espen has been posting his data.

    A far as previous behavior, I had just liked their page the day before, and this was the first time, and only time, I contributed anything to it.

    As far as me being butthurt... I was feeling hurt because I like the bikes, and I like the community. I was just trying to be helpful and was treated very rudely. My butt hurts because someone slammed a door on it.
    First and foremost - You shouldn't have gotten banned. That was done in Error. I'm the owner of FAT-BIKE.COM | A Resource for Fans of FatBikes! and take full responsibility for this error. I'm sorry that you were banned. It was an honest mistake, done without malice and can be immediately remedied. We deleted your comments and others, because we want to tell our own story about the Vee Snowshoe Tire and not parrot the findings that you posted. Our story will publish today and some of the information is different than what's posted here. We adhere to the rules of responsible journalism and your information about pricing, for instance didn't come right from the decision makers at Vee Tire. We have to wait to get our price information directly from the company that sends us their product. We posted a teaser picture and you basically spoiled our surprise that was being written. You probably did it to be helpful, but your helpfulness threw up a big spoiler alert from our editorial perspective. You may all be thinking "what surprise?" Because of the info in this thread. We have tens of thousands of readers that do not visit the pages of this fine forum and would have never seen the information that you shared....and that all good.

    bdundee has an ax to grind with me because of facebook politics as well. I've met Bob and we don't really see eye to eye on life and that's just fine. We're not all meant to be stepford bikers. So bdundee will probably never be a member of my fan club. I'm not the king of anything Bob. I'm the owner of a fat-bike blog and a moderator on this board. If you feel that's a conflict of interest, I would gladly step down as moderator without hesitation.

    SocratesDied Trolling's comments about Global Fat-Bike Day show a fundamental misunderstanding of the role that fat-bike.com and I play in the event. Fat-bike is merely a cheerleader for this excellent grassroots event that will take place with or without his participation. It will be better if you do participate, but that's up to you. Read what's been posted about the event. Fat-bike.com nor any other company benefits from Global Fat-Bike Day. Global Fat-Bike Day is a celebration thrown by the people, for the poeple that make up the fat-bike community.

    I'm sorry that this little mishap interrupted the discussion about Vee Tires newest addition to the fat-bike tire market and I hope we can get back on topic. In the future, if individuals have a problem like this, the best way to get it resolved is to contact me directly.

    And again - want me out as moderator?......just say the word and I'm out.....with no hard feelings what so ever!

    Ride and Smile,

    ~gomez~
    owner/raconteur at fat-bike.com

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    You are not the first person to find their behavior needlessly intemperate or rude.
    Oh lord yes....Trailmaker took offense that I didn't want to run a story about his blue cruiser fat bike - something about my vernacular that made him angry. Sorry dude.....(for like the tenth time)
    owner/raconteur at fat-bike.com

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    Thanks, Gomez, for your reply. You are right about me, overestimating your roll in GFBD. I saw you giving it a lot of support, both making the stickied thread about it here, and on your FB page; you were my only source for the date and the banner. I figured maybe it was your idea, or that you at least set the date for it this year . My bad.

    As far as the pricing stuff, I did preface it by saying it was not certain, did not come from Vee, etc. I also cited my source on size, weight, etc. But, I understand what you are saying about spoiling your big reveal, so for that, I apologize.

    Obviously, I know events go on with or without me... that was a bit condescending of you to say. But, whatever... I accept your apology on the banning. No hard feelings. It's no biggie. *hugs*

    I do feel bad for getting things off topic here, but it seemed logical at the time due to the subject matter at hand.

    =========

    So, everyone, carry on. I am excited about this tire! I was considering other tires for this winter, but Espen's relentless cheerleading has won me over. Espcially so due to my new bike, for which he says it was designed.

  91. #91
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    I also said it would be better if you did decide to participate in global fat-bike day - as a counterbalance to my perceived condescension. btw, I had no intent of be condescending by pointing that out. That perception was created by you.....like in your brain....by the ego, if I'm remembering psych classes correctly from 30 years ago.

    Anyone else have a bone to pick with me?
    owner/raconteur at fat-bike.com

  92. #92
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    Your mother was a snowblower!
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

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    And your father smelt of elderberries!

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    Ahhh, peace in the valley once again......
    owner/raconteur at fat-bike.com

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    Yes, it's something like that ego thing. I'm a philosopher, so that Freudean speak is familiar to me.

    I do plan to participate, as I said in the comment 8 minutes before yours, which I imagine got posted while you were writing yours. Now, as the Surly site says, "just because we both ride bikes doesn't mean we're friends." But, let's not be enemies either.
    Last edited by SocratesDiedTrolling; 10-25-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  96. #96
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    So now that all the fragile egos and butts have been bandaged....
    can we get back to talking about and over analyzing a tire that isn't available yet?

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~gomez~ View Post
    Ahhh, peace in the valley once again......
    Nope G you stay here where we can keep an eye on you but just remember stickers kick patches a$$ any day of the week

    p.s. there's plenty of room for our egos to co exist in WI. and I really did enjoy our brief conversation as we both love fat bikes. We can just agree to disagree on certain topics and both continue to grow our sport as that is both of our intentions. Alright enough mushy crap your still a butt but I do enjoy the hell out of Fat-bike.com keep up the good work.

    Peace....bOb

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul34 View Post
    SO WILL THESE TIRES FIT ON THE BACK OF A PUGSLEY FRAME ON 80MM RIMS?

    Because if so, I want me one.
    Might be tight very tight on 80's but let me do some measuring.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Might be tight very tight on 80's but let me do some measuring.
    Thank you, fine sir.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul34 View Post
    Thank you, fine sir.
    Don't quote me on it but I believe it will fit if it is truly the same size as mentioned but it will be snug. Look up BFL on Pugsly it should be about the same, maybe.

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