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  1. #1
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    Using 26" Dirt Wizard on fat bike rims?

    The 26" Dirt Wizard is designed for 50mm rims, and most of the 4" tires fit upwards of 50mm rims. Some fatbbike frames will not fit 29er+ tires, so to achieve a 3" trail tire those fat bikes can fit the 26" DW.

    If I wanted to use just one expensive wheelset, 50mm rims would do it, but could the DW be used on a 65mm Marge Lite so improving the fat tire and even the DW.

    Brian

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    The 26" Dirt Wizard is designed for 50mm rims, and most of the 4" tires fit upwards of 50mm rims. Some fatbbike frames will not fit 29er+ tires, so to achieve a 3" trail tire those fat bikes can fit the 26" DW.
    You'll see a significant BB height difference as you move from a 26er DW to a 4" fatbike tire to a 29+ Knard. Where I live it's rocky and rooty so a low BB would be a deal breaker for trail use.

    The other issue is tire profile. Putting a 70mm wide tire on a 65mm rim will give you a considerably different tire profile vs. the 50mm rim it was intended for. I switched from 65mm rims to 82mm rims and I found my 4" fatbike tires did not handle as well on hard pack due to the flatter profile of the tire.

    All that to say getting the DWs on 65mm rims is possible. Whether you'll actually like them on those rims is another thing.

    Using the 50mm rims as your dual purpose setup would be the better option - although you'll still have the low BB.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  3. #3
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    As usual, I agree with vikb. The DW's will lower the BB too much, as you're essentially going from a 29er to a 650B overall diameter.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

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    Thanks for replies. Really interesting that 50mm would be the preferred choice, that really helps. Fact that more rounded profile is preferred is good to know too.

    Not including going to 29er+ since most frames will not fit them, hence looking at 26er+ combined with 3.8 fat.

    It would be really helpful if Surly would update their chart with all tire overall diameters and add the two Dirt Wizards. I have e-mailed them to ask for info.

    http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downlo...Geometries.pdf

    Brian

    has anyone used a Nate or Larry on a 50mm rim.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Thanks for replies. Really interesting that 50mm would be the preferred choice, that really helps.
    Keep in mind at that 2.75" tire on a 50mm rim will result in a low BB. For road use of buff trails that could be fine. If you ride in lots of rocks and roots it probably won't be great.

    The 50mm rim gets you a good trail profile on the 2.75" - 4" tire, but won't be so great for floatation in soft stuff.

    So there are compromises.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    Ben, from Surly has recommended keeping to 50mm rims max for the Dirt Wizard.

    Have asked again about overall diameter to work out bottom bracket drop.

    Riding would be gravel, cliff top single track, single track forest. No rocks.

    I am ok for the soft stuff, my other bike is a Moonlander!

    Brian

  7. #7
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    Keep in mind the 29 x 2.75" Dirt Wizards will fit some fatbikes that might not have enough clearance for the 3" Knards. That will preserve the BB height for those that need it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  8. #8
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    with Dirt Wizard 26+ then bottom bracket shoud be 1.25 cm lower, it's not a big deal.

  9. #9
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    My first summer with my Pugsley I ran 2.4 Conti Trail Kings front and rear on my Large Marge rims. As Vik stated, it does change the tire profile quite a bit. I rode all kinds of single track and never had an issue with the BB being lower than it is with the fat rubber - in fact the BB with the Conti's ended up only a bit lower than the BB on my old Giant NRS - XL frame on both the Pugs and the NRS.

    What made me stop running the skinny rubber was more to do with handling. Running the 2.4s on the LM wheel gave me a really square wheel profile - much like the Endo - and in corners, whether on concrete or on trail, there was a disconcerting transition from the main tread body to the side tread - leaning into a turn always felt like the tire lost contact with the ground.

    Given that the DW's are made for a 50mm rim, it might not change the profile nearly as much as I saw with the Conti's so that might be much less of an issue for you.

    If you have an REI nearby, keep an eye open and pick up a set of 2.4 Conti's for cheap and give em a try. If they work for ya, then go for the DW's. If not, you might have dropped 48 bucks or so on two tires that you can return (if you're a member) or have hanging around for spares.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalpine View Post
    with Dirt Wizard 26+ then bottom bracket shoud be 1.25 cm lower, it's not a big deal.
    12.5mm or ~1/2" is a big difference in BB drop! Salsa changed the BB drop by 3mm to make the Mukluk more "trail friendly". The difference from my Pugsley to my Fatback is 15mm, and that change introduced me to hitting my pedals on rocks and roots that I never have before.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

  11. #11
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    I'm definitely going to give them a try on marge lites, at least in the back. But I have a lefty on the 907 so my unsagged bb is about 12 3/4". If the wizzes put me at 12 or even a bit under I can make that work here in smoothieville, all the better for railing corners my pretties...

  12. #12
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    Surly have replied that the tire geometry chart will be updated with the dirt Wizards when production comes through. Estimated that bottom bracket drop when swapping from a 3.8 fat tire to DW should be minimal, 1/4" or so. DW must be quite big.

    Ideas for a nice compact half fat to medium fat ( ie 2.75 to 3.8 max) lightweight simple fun bike growing in my mind.

    Brian

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Surly have replied that the tire geometry chart will be updated with the dirt Wizards when production comes through. Estimated that bottom bracket drop when swapping from a 3.8 fat tire to DW should be minimal, 1/4" or so. DW must be quite big.

    Ideas for a nice compact half fat to medium fat ( ie 2.75 to 3.8 max) lightweight simple fun bike growing in my mind.

    Brian
    sounds like a winner!
    Quote Originally Posted by davidarnott
    wheelies, beyond being the best way over any sort of obstacle, both above or below, are are the steedliest expresstion of joy

  14. #14
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    As per the Surly site...the diameter of the 26+ is 700mm...if that helps any.

    Found on the Instigator frame geo spec sheet. Guess we will have to wait for the upcoming refresh of the tire geo chart to find out more.
    Just like Fat Bikes...the posters on here can go anywhere...and do.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    As per the Surly site...the diameter of the 26+ is 700mm...if that helps any.

    Found on the Instigator frame geo spec sheet. Guess we will have to wait for the upcoming refresh of the tire geo chart to find out more.
    Surly has a 3.8" Larry listed at 741mm. So the BB change would be 20.5mm or 0.8".
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Surly has a 3.8" Larry listed at 741mm. So the BB change would be 41mm or 1.6".
    uuhhh...that is the dia...half that for radius & BB drop change.

    Go to bed late last nite?
    Just like Fat Bikes...the posters on here can go anywhere...and do.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    uuhhh...that is the dia...half that for radius & BB drop change.

    Go to bed late last nite?
    Edited my post. No need to be snarky.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  18. #18
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    No malice intended...but being a bit of a 'smart a$$' for sure. I know that a mistake like that is not like you.

    I don't feel so alone now.
    Just like Fat Bikes...the posters on here can go anywhere...and do.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Ideas for a nice compact half fat to medium fat ( ie 2.75 to 3.8 max) lightweight simple fun bike growing in my mind.Brian
    This Instigator blog encourages further thoughts on a 2.75 to 3.8 lightweight frame. any frames come to mind? Prefer 135mm back end in order to keep it clean lined with IGH.

    Surly Instigator 2.0 | Back Alley Bikes




  20. #20
    mighty sailin' man
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    anyone know when this tire will be available?
    Quote Originally Posted by davidarnott
    wheelies, beyond being the best way over any sort of obstacle, both above or below, are are the steedliest expresstion of joy

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    anyone know when this tire will be available?
    when you sir have yer mitts on them in your man cave..

  22. #22
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    Are there any non-horizontal dropout, non-fat bike frames that would fit the dirt wizard? I'm thinking of a 1x1 kind of frame but I really don't like changing a rear flat with the horizontal dropouts, especially with fenders.

  23. #23
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    I suspect the DW on the new velocity dually may be the schiznit!

  24. #24
    mighty sailin' man
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    I suspect the DW on the new velocity dually may be the schiznit!
    with some real front squish options for ya to boot!
    Quote Originally Posted by davidarnott
    wheelies, beyond being the best way over any sort of obstacle, both above or below, are are the steedliest expresstion of joy

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    with some real front squish options for ya to boot!
    yessir!! I'm brainstorming as i write for a 26" full suss frame set that will accommodate the DW on 35mm blunts.
    Last edited by nvphatty; 12-19-2013 at 09:12 AM.

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