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  1. #1
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    Ugh my Pugsley....

    So having read nothing but awesome Surly reviews over the last few years and virtually having NEVER seen a bad report, I decided to buy a used 2012 Pugs. Of course- and as luck would have it- as soon as I brought her home I started seeing all kinds of posts about the Snowblind cracking issues, ICT cracking in half or the chain stays snapping, Long Haul Trucker breaking, and actually that a whole bunch of Surlys seem to break in one way or another. Also as luck (or should I say misinformed research ..) would have it, I happened to pick up a 2012 Snowblind white- I'm discovering for way too much money- and it has some issues. Seat stays are of course beginning to crack but so mildly I can't see them without a bright light in the area, the rear facing side of the fork crown is cracked on both sides, rotors are warped, and I have this extremely annoying 'pop' in the drivetrain when either crank arm reaches the 12 o'clock position. Funny, when I test rode it it was completely silent...
    As for the fork, screw it I'll just buy another one although I can only seem to find the red and yellow ones that were recalled for bending. Yay. As for the frame, also screw it I weigh 165lbs and if it starts to separate more I'll worry about it then. The popping noise I tracked down and it looks like... the two smaller cogs in the rear might have some slightly twisted teeth? The chain pins seem to rub against the next cog in line at a certain spot. Is this an issue that actually occurs? I'm frustrated having found this all out about Surly and honestly don't trust the bike anymore, but as I don't have cash for a different one I'm stuck dealing. My only option would be to get something like a Mongoose Juneau, or an '18 Pugsley frame so the components swapped over, however then I'd need my front wheel relaced, etc, which over extends the budget.
    I have a single chainring up front and the 10spd rear... how thick should my chain be on the micrometers? Thanks everyone...

  2. #2
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    Did the seller know about the frame cracks? I would contact them if possible, an honest seller would help with the situation.

    You might reach out to surly, sometimes they will offer a crash replacement at a discounted rate since it is not under warranty.

  3. #3
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    I dont know if the seller knew or not, tried to contact him but to no avail. So probably. I contacted Surly and asked if maybe they still had some Legacy Pugs frames in stock for a lower price but they just said to purchase the new frameset.

    EDIT: I had seen some of the older frames for sale on other sites but for only ~50 bucks less than the new one there was really no deal there

  4. #4
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    You don't need a new frame (unless you get free under warranty), you just need a wee bit of weld.

    Nice thing about steel bikes - they're fixable.

    Adds character.
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  5. #5
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    Nice I can weld . Just need to get ahold of a welder... That pop in the drivetrain was kind of the thing that set me off. "great now this too??" Got a new yellow fork coming...hopefully it will bend very slowly so I don't go over the bars lol. I imagine its not the same batch..

    Why is it that chromoly has been around forever yet Surly has so many issues with it? Its usually in an area in the middle of a tube or next to a weld...so the tubing supplier must be crap?

  6. #6
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    I have a friend with two pugslies. Both battleship grey. One is fat, Marge Lites with 4" tires and the other is a Krampug. Both have Carver carbon forks. He loves both bikes.
    I would think nothing of welding and even gusseting your frame. I had my aluminum 907 fat frame welded when I cracked it at the top tube/ seatpost intersection. I wish I had put a gusset to add character but the welder didn't feel it necessary.

    You could really repair any cracks nicely by having the frame glass beaded and really making the cracks stand out. Drill a small hole at each end of the crack and weld it up. That's usually the end of it then. Perfect opportunity for a color change too.
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  7. #7
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    Haha yeah I thought about the color change. Rather than a drill I'd prob use a little grinding disc like a dremel and grind it back to just start with a keyhole... problem is I'm ok at TIG but more of a stick guy. Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by 'frame glass'?

  8. #8
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    Which frame material cannot be welded or bonded? (Yes, aluminum is more challenging)

    Sorry to hear the OP got a bum frame regardless of material. That puts the damper on the excitement of a new ride.

  9. #9
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    Yeah it definitely put a little shadow over having a new ride this summer. I had to really inspect it tightly to even locate the cracks.. luckily she's an all season bike. Aluminum does have to be super clean-welding it isn't too bad- but can carbon be fixed also? (< irrelevant question to the thread but still curious..)

  10. #10
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    Sounds like your a metals guy but just to sanity check: you sure it's cracking and not just paint deformation? Got some pics?

  11. #11
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    You know what I will get some pictures up here in just a moment (i'm responding frequently to this thread as I'm sitting at home tonight ha)... There are super mild cracks in the paint that seem to have a slight rust. I formulated the idea there would be no paint cracks if there wasn't steel cracks...but I may be wrong! I will get the pics up here in a second...

  12. #12
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    Alrighty here we go...

    Seat stays...
    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1009.jpg

    Fork crown...
    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1010.jpg

    Sorry about the dark photos. Both seem to be in the HAZ..

  13. #13
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    I would ride that without thinking twice.

    And I'm Anal with a capital 'A'.

    I don't recall what was cracking on the white frames, but if the fork had a history of cracking, then I'd consider replacing that since it's easy and new forks are fun (carbon?).

    Aside from that, I think being a steel frame you'll have some warning if any of those 'cracks' are going to go. If you are nervous, sand the paint off and take a look. I'd bet a fair amount of money that all of those spots are just dings in the paint from rocks being thrown up.

    As to the popping on the cassette, cassette's are cheap and maybe the derailleur is just out of adjustment.

    YMMV.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    Haha yeah I thought about the color change. Rather than a drill I'd prob use a little grinding disc like a dremel and grind it back to just start with a keyhole... problem is I'm ok at TIG but more of a stick guy. Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by 'frame glass'?
    He said "by having the frame glass beaded", I think he means having the frame bead blasted to remove the paint.
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  15. #15
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    Yes. This makes sense.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    ... can carbon be fixed also? (< irrelevant question to the thread but still curious..)
    Yes, carbon can be fixed. Calfee is a well known place that does it. A coworker just got a frame repaired at a local place just outside of Milwaukee. Granted, at $400, it is not cheap.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post

    As to the popping on the cassette, cassette's are cheap and maybe the derailleur is just out of adjustment.

    YMMV.
    I would start by checking the derailleur hanger alignment.

  18. #18
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    If this was my frame, I'd maybe reveal the steel underneath the paint and then look with a magnifying glass with some really good light *or* most likely just ride it and periodically check here and there. I'm like that.

    Your drive train issues sound typical for a bike that has seen some neglect. Could be a standard adjustment or you have a worn part or two. Any chance they put a new chain on old cassette and ring? Maybe share a pic of the drive train too?

  19. #19
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    As mentioned above, glass beading is sand blasting but with glass beads instead of sand. Less damaging to the steel and leaves a finish that makes cracks stand out.
    I like turtles

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    Alrighty here we go...

    Seat stays...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's just like the crack I had on mine. I took it to the shop where I bought it, and Surly replaced the frame.
    Out to ride

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Endomorph View Post
    That's just like the crack I had on mine. I took it to the shop where I bought it, and Surly replaced the frame.
    For me there isn't crack tube it's just superficial paint damage. I've got the same on my white pugsley.

  22. #22
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    Lots of good shops repair frames. I would avoid doing that work on your own without jigs and means to make certain everything stays true.

    This place has a great rep:

    Bilenky Cycle Works
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  23. #23
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    Looks like paint scratches to me, but I think you should have the LBS guys have a quick look or perhaps a framebuilder if you know one. I had an old '89 Cannondale with some paint cracks that were nothing but that, paint cracks.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  24. #24
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    I bought it used which voids any warranty, as does it being 6 years old. Maybe it is just cracks in the paint . I'll just ride it as I normally would and keep checking on it for now. The cracks in the fork crown are deep enough I can get my thumbnail in them but its a replaceable part so hey.

  25. #25
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    I really appreciate all the help and suggestions by the way I guess I didn't mention that... a question however; has Surly stopped having the cracking/ breaking issues on their newer frames?

  26. #26
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    Yes. They re-positoned the seat stays on the Pugs post-Snowblind and the problem forks were recalled.

  27. #27
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    Well got the new fork.... Loaded Yellow, not the bad batch lol. Just need to get her cut, starred, and thrown on. Thanks to all of your input I'm just going to forgo the seat stays for now and keep a tight eye. I will soon put up a photo of the ugliest Pugsley (the "Ugsley") ever with the new fork. 'Loablind'. I wonder if Surly changed their chromium/ molybdenum content? Or changed purveyors?? Just glad to hear they solved it.

  28. #28
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    I'll post a pic later of my welded 9 Zero 7. It used to look killer with custom powder coat. Until I get it re done, it's ghetto. You'll feel better about your Pugs.
    I like turtles

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    Why is it that chromoly has been around forever yet Surly has so many issues with it? Its usually in an area in the middle of a tube or next to a weld...so the tubing supplier must be crap?
    I've had 8 Surly bikes in my garage and never had an issue with a tube or weld failure. Given how many frames they sell I don't think they've had a particularly awful record for problems.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    ...I will soon put up a photo of the ugliest Pugsley (the "Ugsley") ever with the new fork....
    No such thing as an ugly Pugsley.

    Just an inadequately used one. Once you're out on the trails and acquired a sufficient layer of dirt on the bike, all Pugsleys look equally beautiful (or otherwise).
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    No such thing as an ugly Pugsley.

    Just an inadequately used one. Once you're out on the trails and acquired a sufficient layer of dirt on the bike, all Pugsleys look equally beautiful (or otherwise).


    Hell yeS !! Now I'm anxious to see the photos.

    Might have seen me out on the trails with a guy on a Pugs. Yes, we keep him about 25 feet away at all times

    because HE is ugly ,,

    Not the Bike !!
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  32. #32
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    Haha yes can't have ugly folks mucking up the scene (although I'm sure I do that all the time..)! Should have some pics up in a few days.

    (@NYrr496) Yeah I'd like to see that pic. I'm not too worried about my color scheme as my bike is not a fashion accessory... and what's even more odd is that I could've chosen a red fork but went with yellow because it was even uglier. The yellow itself looks great I just see it on the white frame as a weird combo.

    (@vikb) I am sure what you're saying is correct. As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread prior to buying my Pugs I had seen nothing but incredible reviews about Surly products. What I assume happened is once I saw the cracking issues- and somehow having never cracked a frame in my life- I began searching for that specifically...which brought up a bunch of accounts of this happening and I became inundated. It's really dumb on my part actually because the minute cracks I posted have had me so paranoid I haven't even been riding it. Need to keep telling myself CRACKS WON'T SEPARATE IF I DON'T RIDE IT so what's the point in worrying??? Either don't ride it and don't worry about it, or just ride the snot out of it and take it as it comes lol- which is the path I'm choosing.

    (@Velobike) I do believe you're correct about no ugly Pugs'. No matter what it still looks brawny and unique. The thing I love the most when looking at it is knowing all the wheel/tire combos I can throw on there. And yes...I definitely need to use it more.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    No such thing as an ugly Pugsley.

    Just an inadequately used one. Once you're out on the trails and acquired a sufficient layer of dirt on the bike, all Pugsleys look equally beautiful (or otherwise).
    Love my pugs

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6...zJ0c3E4MU1NMWc

  34. #34
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    Name:  Crack.JPG
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    Forgot to post these here. Gotta get this frame re coated.
    I like turtles

  35. #35
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    Dang that was a nasty crack. Its fortunate you didn't get a butt crack full of rear tire lol. Are you going with the same color or completely different scheme? As for the update, I cut my fork and got her installed today. Not as ugly as I thought, actually kinda nice. I will get some photos up shortly here I didn't realize my camera was dead.

    Thanks for the vid mr_manny got some riding inspiration! What years did they make the blue Pugs? That's a gorgeous looking rig

  36. #36
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    Alrighty camera charged faster than I thought it would. Here it is sans front brake as my BB7's are chunks of excrement. I literally can adjust them, put the bike in the garage, take it out to ride, and the brakes start to drag right away. Calipers have free movement and the pads have some meat on them still, must be warped rotors seems like..

    BTW, anyone want a Turbo Dropper post (I know its the wrong forum for that)?? It's only like a 2" travel... Just don't need it and want a Thompson in there.
    (EDIT: Think Im going to keep the dropper in there for now.. got some other parts to worry about)

    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1012.jpg
    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1013.jpg
    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1014.jpg
    Last edited by wyomad; 1 Week Ago at 09:17 AM.

  37. #37
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    either if thats a crack or just paint chipping. i wouldnt worry about it too much as its only early stage.

    My $0.02 is that location is too werid for scratch paint damage. it probably happened when the frame is flexing cracked the paint a bit or the tubing slightly. if the frame cracked its only slightly not worth fixing yet. steel frame is very fixable and a lot of welders can fix them cheap and get powder coated later. here in bay area cali, weld and powder coat should be no more then $150 for both your area would probably be cheaper
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  38. #38
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    (@akacoke) I completely agree with this. Its hard for me to understand why the paint would flex/ crack if the steel didn't. I will just watch for it to get worse and weld it up if it does, maybe with a buttress. Bay area hey?? Where at I used to be stationed at Travis AFB

  39. #39
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    I'm going with the same color. I like it a lot.

    Just a small warning about the Thomson dropper... I know quite a few people having problems with them. Bike Yoke posts seem pretty bomb proof.

    Your bike looks killer.
    I like turtles

  40. #40
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    hey thanks i appreciate it, it looks a lot better than I thought it would. Honestly I guess with a healthy dose of dust on it it'll probably not matter much (as mentioned by Velobike earlier). I like that green too it looks sick, and I don't really see it around.

    The dropper I have in there is a Gravity Dropper, it just doesn't drop down too much, seems heavy, and the frame is maybe an inch or two too big for me, so I have to keep it dropped when the post is bottomed anyway. i was thinking just a solid Thompson post for weight reduction? There are probably better options for that but I don't know all of the different brands/ benefits. I suppose I could use another dropper post if it dropped down further its just the one that I have doesn't serve much of a purpose at the moment

  41. #41
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    Know how I ended up picking that color? I love Niner's Niner Green. I wanted to get one of their bikes in that color but none of their models are doing it for me. I got the 907 frame on a 50% off sale because they were clearing out purple frames. I went to the powder coat shop and Granny Smith Apple was almost identical to Niner green.
    136 dollars later, I had my green bike.
    I like turtles

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    Alrighty camera charged faster than I thought it would. Here it is sans front brake as my BB7's are chunks of excrement. I literally can adjust them, put the bike in the garage, take it out to ride, and the brakes start to drag right away. Calipers have free movement and the pads have some meat on them still, must be warped rotors seems like..

    BTW, anyone want a Turbo Dropper post (I know its the wrong forum for that)?? It's only like a 2" travel... Just don't need it and want a Thompson in there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That looks AWESOME IMO!
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  43. #43
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    Nice lookin' Pugs!
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  44. #44
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    @wyomad, sent you a PM about the gravity dropper
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    (@Jason Rides Bikes) thanks and PM returned.

    Thanks for the nice comments everyone! Once I get my brakes dialed in here in a bit I'm going to hit the trails... no point making it pretty if I won't get it dirty. I've been tampering with little items and not really riding... which is somewhat of a blasphemy. Time to stop nitpicking and get back out there.

  46. #46
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    Alright been taking her out on the trails...other than a rear cassette "pop" and some mean chain slap (I assume from the very small front chainring) its nice as hell. I had some pretty good shark gill style chain scratches on the chainstay, so I rubbed it down with alcohol, covered the scars with clear nail polish, and then used an old wetsuit I had to cut up and make a guard. Sewing sewing...will show you the end result. Sewed with fishing line btw...

    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1016.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1017.jpg  


  47. #47
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    Nice!
    I like turtles

  48. #48
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    Well that should do her... quadruple stitched it so it doesn't suck into the drivetrain. This is one of those mini projects where about 90 percent of the way through I thought to myself, 'ah crap... probably should've made it removeable for water and dirt removal...'. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
    Whenever it gets too nasty I'll just take it off and make a removable one.

    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1024.jpg

    Ugh my Pugsley....-dsc_1022.jpg

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