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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogman View Post
    Hmm i haven't experienced flat in close to 900 miles of riding on my pug..

    I'm mainly interested in the tubeless for the weight savings.. However it seems like I can achieve similar weight savings by going with a conventional MTB tube..?

    I don't see any cons of going that way as a weight savings goal, without going tubeless What say you?
    I had contemplated that, as well. For me, the reasons I went tubeless were:

    1) Running a lighter tube increases the chances of flatting, over either tubeless, or a regular Surly tube.
    2) Better traction/less rolling resistance with tubeless.
    3) More weight reduction. I don't think you'll find a conventional MTB tube that's as light as a 24" tube...even with a dash of stans.

  2. #102
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    After all the recent tubeless talk, I decided to finally take the plunge with my pretty much stock Pugs wheels... Mostly because I really took notice on a recent ride of how difficult it was to get the wheels back up to speed whenever I slowed down. I was originally going to do the ghetto split tube method, but the recent vids/posts on the gorilla tape method convinced me to go that route. I picked up a couple of rolls of weather stripping and a big roll of gorilla tape on my lunch break, and plan to follow through with it this weekend. I blame you all

  3. #103
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    I've run my regular 26" mountain bike wheels tubeless with Stan's sealant and rim strips for many years. I wouldn't go back to tubes for my main wheelset. I have a problem maybe once a year or so where I burp the tire or something. I used to get flats from thorns quite often, so tubeless is much more reliable for me.

    I do have a second wet of wheels as a backup, though. I don't use them much, so I run tubes on them. I have 3 sets of tires (mud spikes, semi-slicks, and studded) that get put on, and its a lot easier to switch with tubes. The mud tires aren't recommended for tubeless use by the manufacturer. They must know what they are talking about as beads blow off the rims if used without tubes.(I tried )).

    I have an On-One Fatty on order which will come with tubes, no doubt. I'm planning on going tubeless with this once I see what the rims look like. I have some old Stan's rim strips that I may cut down the middle. I'm thinking of putting 1/2 at the edge of the rim under the bead hook, then a Surly rim strip over that. I guess that it all depends on the size and shape of the rim which I won't have a feel for until the bike gets here.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post

    Along with folk asking if you paint a frame with plastic coat how much heavier will it be I think this is exactly why i do not come on here much anymore...


    Well the gates are open now...
    Well if no one is interested in the thread it will dissappear into obscurity in less than 1 day as thats the time it takes till a thread goes to page 2. In the 9 months i have been riding a fat bike i have noticed more traffic here and it will continue to increase as the bikes get more popular..... with that come more tyres options, forks, FS frames and everything else, you cant have your cake and eat it.... eventually it will become like the 29er forum.

    I also posted tubeless tuesday, when someone searches "tubeless" on the fatbike forum it will come up. We are doing so with the idea of helping each other out, im a very grateful to the guys that posted up their tubeless conversions that certainly helped me.
    Ti O'Beast
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    We are doing so with the idea of helping each other out, im a very grateful to the guys that posted up their tubeless conversions that certainly helped me.
    You have the right idea ozzy. It's all about sharing experiences and helping each other out. It's rather unfortunate if some people don't like that, but we can never make everyone happy. I do know that some have benefited from threads like this one and yours and that's all that matters.

  6. #106
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    I posted this in Tubeless Tuesday as well, but thought it would be worth posting it here too.

    My Surly Cycling cap is off to those of you that were able to make your Holy Rolling Darryl’s tubeless. I thought about going tubeless since day one when I got my Neco. I scanned the pages of the fat bike forum looking for suggestions and final decided to make the plunge this morning. I grabbed a roll of Gorilla tape, a set of Stans tubeless valves, some foam to fill the valley, and started off on my unknown venture. Everything went just as planned, I put the final strip of tape across the rim, put my valve in, mounted my 120tpi Knard and to the compressor I went. I attempted to fill the tire with absolutely no luck. No matter what I did I could not get the tire to fill with air. In frustration and lack of time, I removed all the items that created my useless Tubeless system. The ball of tape, foam and valve that I had in my hand felt rather heavy. For grins I took out my scale and weighed the mess. 200 grams on the noise. With the 265 gram tubes in which I was going to replace, I decided to hold off on another attempt to go tubeless.
    Until I can figure out my mistake, I will live with the 130 gram combined difference.
    Disclaimer: I own a bike shop

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  7. #107
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    It is a strange time for fat bikers as the old heavy options are still valid and many new lighter choices appear and with it new members and their opinions to this cool sharing forum. Having ridden anything that rolls from my old clunker 1956 hawthorn at 45lbs to my roadie at 15.5lbs I enjoy trying different things and for those that don't follow my weirdness don't be offended. I believe the best thing we can do is welcome it all and choose a path along the lines that interest you. Hey we're all cyclists after all!!

    Anyway, sorry back OT. During down time yesterday I thought I'd blow off some steam and try tubeless on my HRD's and Husker Du's. yes I love tubeless on my other bikes AND the weight of the wheels. Only thing I didn't have was the foam so first attempt was done without. Used my pirate duct tape so it showed thru the rim holes then did a lap of gorilla tape on one half then the other. Not having the foam build up left some wrinkles that could and would be problematic. Figured it would be a learning experience. So finally to the part that may be helpfull........combining a couple tricks from moto and mtn biking I put a strap around the tire to compress the middle and then with the compressor cranking air gave the tire the ol b%*tch slap(literally) and bam the bead seated!! Pumped to 30psi and did the Stan's dance and was very close to getting a great seal but for those wrinkles in the gorilla tape which started Stan's coming out some unused spoke holes and a couple on the rim edge. Soif you get to where the air is blowing all over try strapping it and slapping it and you'll be amazed. Now to follow the instructions and go get foam...........back soon!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brogrease View Post
    It is a strange time for fat bikers as the old heavy options are still valid and many new lighter choices appear and with it new members and their opinions to this cool sharing forum. Having ridden anything that rolls from my old clunker 1956 hawthorn at 45lbs to my roadie at 15.5lbs I enjoy trying different things and for those that don't follow my weirdness don't be offended. I believe the best thing we can do is welcome it all and choose a path along the lines that interest you. Hey we're all cyclists after all!!

    Anyway, sorry back OT. During down time yesterday I thought I'd blow off some steam and try tubeless on my HRD's and Husker Du's. yes I love tubeless on my other bikes AND the weight of the wheels. Only thing I didn't have was the foam so first attempt was done without. Used my pirate duct tape so it showed thru the rim holes then did a lap of gorilla tape on one half then the other. Not having the foam build up left some wrinkles that could and would be problematic. Figured it would be a learning experience. So finally to the part that may be helpfull........combining a couple tricks from moto and mtn biking I put a strap around the tire to compress the middle and then with the compressor cranking air gave the tire the ol b%*tch slap(literally) and bam the bead seated!! Pumped to 30psi and did the Stan's dance and was very close to getting a great seal but for those wrinkles in the gorilla tape which started Stan's coming out some unused spoke holes and a couple on the rim edge. Soif you get to where the air is blowing all over try strapping it and slapping it and you'll be amazed. Now to follow the instructions and go get foam...........back soon!
    sounds like you might benefit from going split tube. I've done both and split tube is probably a bit heavier, but there's no worries that the tape hasn't sealed well enough.

    Temperature also affects how well the tape adheres and thus how good of a seal you have.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Sounds to me like the beads don't connect tight enough with the "bead shelf" on the rim. I'd wrap a round or two of tape on the rim and retry. If the bead raises and snaps on the rim too easily, it's loose. I prefer to have such a tight fit that it requires soapy water to slip on and breaking the bead needs two thumbs and an "oomph" (when deflated).
    The problem with this theory is that you've then rendered the bead hook useless by covering it over with tape.

    I can already break the beads free (not easily, but possible) when riding *even when the bead hooks are intact*. Entirely removing them from the equation is unsafe.

  10. #110
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    Thanks Gentleman. I probably will do the split tube method as it looks better for the "seal". I forgot to go to Home Depot for foam but I did stop at my lbs and he was out of the tubes I wanted. Go figure! Anyway I had time so it was good to give it a go and learn something in the process. Yup get my act together is what I learned! Haha..... Supposed to get up to a foot of snow tonight so I gotta go ride now, I can play in garage later. Come on SNOW!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The problem with this theory is that you've then rendered the bead hook useless by covering it over with tape.

    I can already break the beads free (not easily, but possible) when riding *even when the bead hooks are intact*. Entirely removing them from the equation is unsafe.
    Agreed, I think. I would bet that any more than one layer of thick gorilla style tape or rubber tube covering the bead lock is excessive and could make the bead hook less effective. It also puts extra unnecessary stress on the tire bead itself.

    Mike made a great point earlier when he said that the Surly rims/tires weren't designed for tubeless, although some of us have found ways around that..... Quite successfully, I might add. What this means is that your ghetto tubeless setup if executed poorly could fail unexpectedly. Be careful.

    Some people, on the other hand, have done fat tubeless many times and have logged hundreds of hours over multiple years on these setups with great results.
    Are they perfect? Nope.
    Can they still fail? Yup.
    Will I switch back to tubes any time soon? Nope.
    Why do I hate tubes? I don't. They are pretty cool. In fact, I always carry one or two in my pack on every ride..... Usually for my friends.

  12. #112
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    The Q-Tubes 26x2.4-2.7 Superlight tubes weigh 235grams, effectively the same weight as a ghetto tubeless conversion. It's a good option for those who want the weight reduction but not the hassle.
    Jason
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  13. #113
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    Schwalbe 13F Freeride Extralight 2.1-3.0 tubes weight 185g. Mine even weighted 180g. They are made with some super elastic rubber

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Schwalbe 13F Freeride Extralight 2.1-3.0 tubes weight 185g. Mine even weighted 180g. They are made with some super elastic rubber
    Now that's what I'm talking about! Perfect for a spare.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Schwalbe 13F Freeride Extralight 2.1-3.0 tubes weight 185g. Mine even weighted 180g. They are made with some super elastic rubber
    And they have held just fine in my rolling darryl + bfl combo.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Schwalbe 13F Freeride Extralight 2.1-3.0 tubes weight 185g. Mine even weighted 180g. They are made with some super elastic rubber
    I have these tubes front and back on my Moonlander. With Clown Shoes and BFL's the part at the valve doesn't stretch enough: I have to run higher pressures than I'd like or the side of the tire caves in a little bit. At really low pressures the tire and tube started "creeping" on the rim, so the valve was sticking out at an angle.

    For smaller tires & rims and higher pressures they should be quite fine - and I'll still carry them as a backup after I'm done converting to tubeless.

  17. #117
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    They might not be the solution for everyone but work extremelly well for a large part

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    The Q-Tubes 26x2.4-2.7 Superlight tubes weigh 235grams, effectively the same weight as a ghetto tubeless conversion. It's a good option for those who want the weight reduction but not the hassle.
    If you use the 24" version, they have a tighter fit on the rim, and arguably weigh less to boot.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  19. #119
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    reading through here i see there isn't a real weight advantage with a tubeless fat tire of 3.8+.
    i'm sure the puncture resistant to thorns and such will be a plus...more tubeless questions; hows the ride quality/handling? do you notice a fatter tire?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by EOB View Post
    hows the ride quality/handling? do you notice a fatter tire?
    The tire seems to be more supple when tubeless in my opinion.

    I don't notice that the tire is larger as I would need to do a side by side comparison. That would be an interesting test.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    If you use the 24" version, they have a tighter fit on the rim, and arguably weigh less to boot.
    Is there a 24"x3.0" or some such? It's hard to believe a Q-Tubes Super Light 24" x 1-1/8" would expand to fill a fat bike tire.

  22. #122
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    Here we go again....some "brave" person can't sign his neg comments.....

    " Tubeless vs tubes?? 12-08-2012 01:04 PM You forget yourself."


    Huh? Makes no sense haha.
    Riding.....

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrY10cK View Post
    Is there a 24"x3.0" or some such? It's hard to believe a Q-Tubes Super Light 24" x 1-1/8" would expand to fill a fat bike tire.
    Oops, my mistake, I thought the post I responded to was referring to their use for split tube set up. Thanks for inadvertently catching my error.

    And no, I don;t think a 1 1/8" tube would work well in a fatty, 24 or 26.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  24. #124
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    I have ran split tube tubeless on both fat and mountain bike a lot with great success. I only use sealant if I get a leak. As I said in earlier post I like to glue the tube to the tire so I can change tires and not have to replace the tube and deal with the mess if I have used sealant. I do think tubeless is the future in some form. If you look at tires for almost any vehicle they evolved into tubeless of some sort. In my experience with bikes at least 80 % of the flats are a problem with the tube either by the installer or flaw with some part of the process. Just my experience and thoughts.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    ...I like to glue the tube to the tire so I can change tires and not have to replace the tube and deal with the mess if I have used sealant.
    Maybe I'm missing something here, or am just too dull or inexperienced of a biker but this sounds interesting to me. So are you saying that you are gluing an entire tube to the inside of the tire? If this isn't what you are saying, I'm wondering how things would work if you did do this? If the tube had sealant in it, would this be as effective as tubeless so far as the puncture sealing benefits of tubeless are concerned? I guess it would mostly depend on how well you have the tube glued to inside of the tire.

    I'm looking to try tubeless this coming weekend pretty much only for the benefit of cutting down on all the silly flats I get from goat heads and thorns in general.

    Let the commence...
    Chromey

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