Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 143
  1. #51
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Reputation: alphazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,282
    I've been playing with lights and other stuff with my rear tire so it's kind of an experiment. My front tubeless has the same air I put in it when I set it up tubeless. They don't have to leak. Submerge your tire in water and figure out where you are having problems and fix it. Air retention in fatties is not a myth.

    A flat every "10th ride" would upset me.

  2. #52
    Fat & Single
    Reputation: ozzybmx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,755
    Cheers mgersib, good to hewr you got it sorted with marge lites. I'm intending to do it with gorilla tape only. Hopefully it works t
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  3. #53
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,689
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    With tubeless I get 2 flats *between* every ride--they leak down to flat in a matter of hours.
    All in good fun sir? You must be doing it wrong.

    I have Uma 70's and 90's that hold air for months, both mine, and customers.

    With split tube sets on Clownshoes and Darryls, same thing. Set and forget.

    Sure, a few months in, once sealant level drops, they drift the same way a skinny would, but nothing even approaching the hassles your having.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same way.

    The only thing I can think is you live in rock country. Are you using old, previously run tires? Perhaps the sidewalls are too scuffed and beat down for the sealant to get ahead of the curve.

    New tires, regardless of set up? Inflate, set pressure and go. They retain better than a lot of skinny tires I set up new on Stans rims to be honest...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  4. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nvphatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,113
    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I've been playing with lights and other stuff with my rear tire so it's kind of an experiment. My front tubeless has the same air I put in it when I set it up tubeless. They don't have to leak. Submerge your tire in water and figure out where you are having problems and fix it. Air retention in fatties is not a myth.

    A flat every "10th ride" would upset me.
    but they do simply because of the setup and if you become upset over a flat every 10th ride i'm here for ya.

  5. #55
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    6,984
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    All in good fun sir? You must be doing it wrong.

    I have Uma 70's and 90's that hold air for months, both mine, and customers.

    With split tube sets on Clownshoes and Darryls, same thing. Set and forget.

    Sure, a few months in, once sealant level drops, they drift the same way a skinny would, but nothing even approaching the hassles your having.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same way.

    The only thing I can think is you live in rock country. Are you using old, previously run tires? Perhaps the sidewalls are too scuffed and beat down for the sealant to get ahead of the curve.

    New tires, regardless of set up? Inflate, set pressure and go. They retain better than a lot of skinny tires I set up new on Stans rims to be honest...
    Hasn't seemed to make any difference with new or used tires. They all leak.

    Wouldn't have started with a beat up tire anyway--the idea has been to duplicate my 29" experience where I install a tire and don't touch it again til its worn out, dead.

    Current operating theory is that the amount of torque on the beads from riding the local chunk (think slow speed rock crawling, even on XC rides) means that they are constantly getting pulled free of the rim, maybe even multiple times per ride. Not enough to burp them (probably because I'm not brave enough to ride them hard yet) but enough that I need to add air every ~20-30 minutes or so when riding. Sometimes there's a visible spot of sealant, sometimes not.

    If I pump them up, then spend ~15 minutes doing the shake and bake to get every leak sealed in the shop, they'll hold for ~half a day. But then I go ride and have to add air several times during the ride. Get home, park the bike, and within an hour they're totally flat.

  6. #56
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Reputation: alphazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,282
    mikesee, I would be interested in how you are doing the tubeless setup. Your experience would be exhausting but it isn't what should be happening.

    Are you using tubes or tape?

  7. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,881
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Hasn't seemed to make any difference with new or used tires. They all leak.

    Wouldn't have started with a beat up tire anyway--the idea has been to duplicate my 29" experience where I install a tire and don't touch it again til its worn out, dead.

    Current operating theory is that the amount of torque on the beads from riding the local chunk (think slow speed rock crawling, even on XC rides) means that they are constantly getting pulled free of the rim, maybe even multiple times per ride. Not enough to burp them (probably because I'm not brave enough to ride them hard yet) but enough that I need to add air every ~20-30 minutes or so when riding. Sometimes there's a visible spot of sealant, sometimes not.

    If I pump them up, then spend ~15 minutes doing the shake and bake to get every leak sealed in the shop, they'll hold for ~half a day. But then I go ride and have to add air several times during the ride. Get home, park the bike, and within an hour they're totally flat.
    Something isn't right. The split tube is visible between the tire and the rim right?

    All of mine have held air perfectly, better than any 29 set up I've had.

  8. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    150

    No Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_P View Post
    Could someone explain to me why a tubeless set up is lighter? I'd like to go that route but I've never run it and don't get why it would be lighter. If using the split tube method, is it just the difference in using a lighter tube? In my tire now, there's just a tube. When I here some of the stuff used in a tubeless setup (extra rip strip, tape, foam, sealant .....) I don't get the 'lighter' aspect. Although if it is the case, when paired with some performance benefits, I'd be sold. Thanks.
    I havent used tubes in nine years and never looked back. Now tubeless in mountain bike (Flow EX) disc cross bike (Arch), road bike (Mavic Cysrium SL) and now Beargrease (ghetto tubed rolling holy Darylls)

    after all the number crunching you will save a total of .833125lb of weight total

    but the thought of being tubeless.................priceless !



    this takes into account:

    Weight of the fat tube 500g

    24"x2.4-2.75 tube 260g



    Initial savings (500-260) 240g



    Excess tube material trimmed off 45g



    Secondary savings (240+45) 285g



    3 scoops of Stans (32g per scoop) 96g





    Final Savings (285-96) 189g



    Two tires (189X2) 378g
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Saul Lumikko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,159
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Current operating theory is that the amount of torque on the beads from riding the local chunk (think slow speed rock crawling, even on XC rides) means that they are constantly getting pulled free of the rim, maybe even multiple times per ride. Not enough to burp them (probably because I'm not brave enough to ride them hard yet) but enough that I need to add air every ~20-30 minutes or so when riding. Sometimes there's a visible spot of sealant, sometimes not.
    Sounds to me like the beads don't connect tight enough with the "bead shelf" on the rim. I'd wrap a round or two of tape on the rim and retry. If the bead raises and snaps on the rim too easily, it's loose. I prefer to have such a tight fit that it requires soapy water to slip on and breaking the bead needs two thumbs and an "oomph" (when deflated).

  10. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,290
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilboy View Post
    I havent used tubes in nine years and never looked back. Now tubeless in mountain bike (Flow EX) disc cross bike (Arch), road bike (Mavic Cysrium SL) and now Beargrease (ghetto tubed rolling holy Darylls)

    after all the number crunching you will save a total of .833125lb of weight total

    but the thought of being tubeless.................priceless !



    this takes into account:

    Weight of the fat tube 500g

    24"x2.4-2.75 tube 260g



    Initial savings (500-260) 240g



    Excess tube material trimmed off 45g



    Secondary savings (240+45) 285g



    3 scoops of Stans (32g per scoop) 96g





    Final Savings (285-96) 189g



    Two tires (189X2) 378g
    Other advantages notwithstanding lots of people are using tubes that weigh about the same or are lighter than the 24" tube to start with so no weight savings to be had.
    Latitude 61

  11. #61
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Cheers mgersib, good to hewr you got it sorted with marge lites. I'm intending to do it with gorilla tape only. Hopefully it works t
    Cheers bro! You'll get it. Be patient. Install with a tube first to get your first bead seated, then pop the tube out, put your tubeless stem and sealant in and BAM, you'll be set. Make sure your tape goes bead-to-bead, which will require two wraps, minimum. I actually run a third wrap right down the center and that seems to seal the best. I have one with two wraps and one with three and today, both are perfect. One was just a little better sealed right off the bat. The sealant had to get a little leak around the valve stem on the two-wrapper... but I digress.

    You'll get it. Have fun ozzybmx!

    Cheers,
    MG

  12. #62
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Hasn't seemed to make any difference with new or used tires. They all leak.

    Wouldn't have started with a beat up tire anyway--the idea has been to duplicate my 29" experience where I install a tire and don't touch it again til its worn out, dead.

    Current operating theory is that the amount of torque on the beads from riding the local chunk (think slow speed rock crawling, even on XC rides) means that they are constantly getting pulled free of the rim, maybe even multiple times per ride. Not enough to burp them (probably because I'm not brave enough to ride them hard yet) but enough that I need to add air every ~20-30 minutes or so when riding. Sometimes there's a visible spot of sealant, sometimes not.

    If I pump them up, then spend ~15 minutes doing the shake and bake to get every leak sealed in the shop, they'll hold for ~half a day. But then I go ride and have to add air several times during the ride. Get home, park the bike, and within an hour they're totally flat.
    FWIW, Mike, I've never run tubes on my fatbike. At times it's been a pain to get the bead seated, and I've had to use the method I described earlier, but it's 100% worth it on the trail. The only tubes I've ever had to buy are ones I'm replacing because I've given them out to other riders on the trail. I guess I consider it a goodwill expense...

    I run 'em down to 4psi too... on steep climbs. No sweat.

  13. #63
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Reputation: alphazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,282
    If done well, using a tube to seat one side is a waste of time. If you pull the tape very tight, no wrinkles, and use foam if needed, you should be able to pump up by hand.

  14. #64
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    Do other people have the same problem as mikesee, ie. poor air retention? Can you go a few days without airing it up?
    I can go for more than a week without adding air to my tires. I use a low-pressure gauge and stability of pressure is one of the great things about a well set-up tubeless system. I can hold 9-10psi for more than a week without adding air.

    I'm doing it now.

  15. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    257
    One thing that I have found is that you need to inspect the bead of the tire and remove any inperfections with sand paper or if you are careful a small die grinder on any tubeless tire it is as important as the smooth tape.

  16. #66
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,689
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Hasn't seemed to make any difference with new or used tires. They all leak.
    Yeah, something odd is going on for sure.

    We've been down this road before, what you ride, is not what others ride, all areas require different riding styles and appropriate gear yada yada yada.

    All that being said, you're screwing around WAY more than the rest of us.

    I scratch my head at those who even have to air up once a week etc.

    I run mine at around 8, (on Uma's) and they hold air for months. I'm no pro, and my terrain is northeast woods, so plenty of roots, rock gardens etc, but I ride plenty hard enough to have burped a conventional Stans tubeless now and again (generally since I forgot to check pressure before the ride). I beat the snot out of them, push them as hard as I can into corners, etc. Rock gardens are just fun, I blow through them with little regard for lines as I would with skinnier wheels.

    I do a fair bit of out of the saddle techy climbing too.

    I only mention all this so that you can get a picture of where I'm at trail wise.

    Guys I ride with that are running split tubes, seem to have very similar results as well...

    I'm sure your rock crawling is putting a bit more stress on, sure. What pressures you running? I know you know way more than most with regards to soft condition pressure, so I doubt your running 4 or 5 etc.

    Others have mentioned too, the amount of effort it takes to break the bead off the rim, mine is often a two handed endeavor, wheel on the floor so I can push harder etc.

    Super strange, sucks you're not having a good experience, as you well understand how, If it worked, it's a really nice thing.

    Not too sure how much any of this helps, but I'd say forge on, there must be an answer, and I'd love to hear it once you find it.

    As an aside, wouldn't you think skinny tires would have the same bead slippage given identical situations?
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  17. #67
    EOB
    EOB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3
    regards to the uma wheels from speedwaycycles, they clam no issues going tubeless along with their stan;s tape. i did not hear them say anything on building up the center....sure would appreciate any feedback on the uma's 70mm & 90mm going tubeless....thanks!

  18. #68
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: pliebenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,620

    My $.02

    I can only speak to doing tubeless ghetto-style on Large Marge's but it is the way to go; not trouble-free but much less trouble than with tubes. (I ride in a puncture-rich environment!)

    Since I run a sealant anyway (Slime) if I'm running tubes my weight saving is in the tubes; 1~2 # depending---all the other weights cancel out.

    What I've been running is either Stan's or SlimePro when I seat the tires (the latex tends to "glue" the tire in place) and then I top off with plain ol' Slime (like what you'd use in your car; comes in the handy gallon size with a pump)---it'll take a couple of weeks before all the leaks seal up.
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  19. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    643
    Don't want to sound rude, but theese last posts confirm something that I like about tubes, the simplicity and reliability of the setup

  20. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,881
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Don't want to sound rude, but theese last posts confirm something that I like about tubes, the simplicity and reliability of the setup


  21. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bighit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,364
    I have run tubeless in every mountain bike I have had or years. I have an unopened bottle of Stan's but yet I haven't converted my fat wheels. I just never flatted on the trail with the surly tubes yet. My current set up CS/Bud, Lou are being run at 5psi. Maybe I will encounter some flats at this pressure, but until then I am hard pressed to convert.

  22. #72
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,689
    Quote Originally Posted by EOB View Post
    sure would appreciate any feedback on the uma's 70mm & 90mm going tubeless....thanks!
    I'm running them (90's) and love them. Bead is actually quite hard to break free to change tires, add sealant etc.

    No need to bulk up the bead seat. Helps ease installation to use a tire that is already in use, rather than all flattened down and just out of a box. That said, the foldable ones seemed to seat up just fine.

    I do use the tube first to seat the beads, remove tube, leaving one bead in place, then inflate system just to ease seating.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Reliability?
    Don't want to start another tubes-no tubes war but with tubes you just have to slap them inside the tire and inflate. Put some Slime in the tube and it is flat resistant to a point.
    Slash in the sidewall? No problem. Too happy turning at too low pressures? No problem, no air ir running away throuh the bead. No air leaks because of bad seating or a temperature drop. Use adequate pressures or riding and you'll hardly have a pinch flat (on a fatbike).
    To me, this means reliability. Go to an expedition/touring cycling forum and see what the guys who REALLY need reliability think about tubeless.

    Once again, nothing wrong with tubeless, but not for me

  24. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nvphatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,113
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    fixed proper

  25. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nvphatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Reliability?
    Don't want to start another tubes-no tubes war but with tubes you just have to slap them inside the tire and inflate. Put some Slime in the tube and it is flat resistant to a point.
    Slash in the sidewall? No problem. Too happy turning at too low pressures? No problem, no air ir running away throuh the bead. No air leaks because of bad seating or a temperature drop. Use adequate pressures or riding and you'll hardly have a pinch flat (on a fatbike).
    To me, this means reliability. Go to an expedition/touring cycling forum and see what the guys who REALLY need reliability think about tubeless.

    Once again, nothing wrong with tubeless, but not for me
    yup this will work just fine IMO.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •