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  1. #201
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    ^right- I get that. I absolutely HAD to use foam to fill in the deep center channel of the Holy Rolling Daryl's, but I was saying that I don't think he'd have to get different foam if using a split tube, because no sealant (thus, no ammonia) should ever reach the foam.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Not sure why you'd still need a different foam if you're doing split tube.
    The foam I used was too thick, stiff and 3-dimmensional, I need something easier to work with, whether I stick with tape or go to split tube.
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  3. #203
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    Gotcha- I thought it was the ammonia issue. If you have a Home Depot near by, I highly recommend that pink foam- as I posted on the previous page, I did one layer with it folded in half and then one regular layer over it, trimming the edges before the bead socket and then the split tube. On my other wheel, I did the exact same thing, but with Gorilla Tape and it worked. Eventually, I want to re-do that one using the blue tape, and if that doesn't work, the split tube.

    Good luck!
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    ...The deal breaker is that the sealant is leaking around the valve stem....Another issue is that this foam is too thick and 3-dimensional. Its a pain to install an the tire gets REALLY tight, its hard to fit it on. So maybe this could work if I could find another source of material to fill in the middle of the rim, but other than that I'm dead in the water.

    Last issue is that the tape seems kind of flimsy on the bead hook, and though I think it would work for a few tires installs, I'm thinking of having 2 sets of tires this winter, and I'm guessing that swapping back and forth would create damage that would require re-taping more often than I would like.

    What do people have for suggestions for space fillers that don't dissolve in ammonia? I'm going to need something other than the foam I'm using, even if I go to split tube.
    Fishman, I have a couple of ideas. One, if you continue with your foam in the middle, it doesn't have to be right up to the valve hole. Leave it back a ways so that the valve stem is tightening right on the tape and rim.

    Second, if you don't like the tire being so tight and hard to get on, try just foam on the edges, allowing the tape to slope downward and making contact with the rim in the middle.

    Third, I've changed tires numerous times without any issues using Gorilla tape.

    Fourth, I completely cover the foam and have never had any issues with the super firm foam from Ace.

  5. #205
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    ...And after pinch flatting my rear (tubed) tire at the bottom of Aspen Trail last night I'll be getting around to that conversion sooner rather than later.

  6. #206
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    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN
    I put my wife's NATE's tubeless split tube on Clownshoes easy. They we're loose without the split tube.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN
    Did you use some sort of foam?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Did you use some sort of foam?
    I didn't use any foam. Wrapped the rim in g-tape, popped a tube in and seated beads, pulled tube out, wrapped tire with rope, tons of gap. I might try to find some foam, but I am thinking my Nates are just TOO loose. I have a buddy who has the 120tpi Nates that might let me use them to experiment.

  10. #210
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    I am thinking I would need to add another 1/4" of foam all the way out to the edge of the rim to take up that much gap. I don't mind ghetto werks, just getting a little carried away with that much foam imho.

  11. #211
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    Use the 'BOOM' for the nates too!

  12. #212
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    Maybe that's it. My wife's Nates are 120 tpi.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I am thinking I would need to add another 1/4" of foam all the way out to the edge of the rim to take up that much gap. I don't mind ghetto werks, just getting a little carried away with that much foam imho.
    jons, I use a self adhesive super firm foam that is easy. I put in on before the tape and I let the tape run well past the outside of the rim. I run a smooth tool around the bead pushing the tape in the bead area and then trim the extra tape on the outside of the rim. It tightens things up a bunch. Just a thought.

  14. #214
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    IT WORKED!!

    Drilled Rolling Darryls
    Surly Bud
    Surly Nate 27tpi
    Packing Foam
    Gorilla Tape
    Sam Adams Boston Lager.

    I used some packing foam from work (fairly thick white foam that we use at work for packing stuff to ship, it comes on a large roll).

    I cut it to 6" wide, folded it over on itself once (making it 3" wide), taped it to the wheel (I left my Surly rim strip in place) and stretched it around the wheel and taped the other end down.

    I then ran a single layer of Gorilla tape over the foam (ran it tight to the inside of the wheel) applying a fair amount of pressure to compress the foam a bit.

    I then put the split tube in place, removed the valve, and aired the tires up with my floor pump. Pumped them up to 30psi to seat the bead, and left them aired up for 15min. Then deflated and poured a little over 3 scoops of Stans in, the inflated to 30 psi to drive the Stans in deep.

  15. #215
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    +1 What's the story with ride quality and tire swap-ability?
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    OK my sole interest in this is the ride quality claims. Is it that big an improvement where you would pursue tubeless for that reason alone?
    Don't care about or have issues with flats
    Don't care about weight

    I do swap tires frequently so the popular methods just don't appeal to me. Before I try to scheme my own method has anyone had any luck bonding a split tube to the tire permanently?
    Check out exp18 posting history. He has been through the split tube bonding thing and now is on saran wrap.

  17. #217
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    If we can find a glue that would really bond the tube to tire we are in business.

  18. #218
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    Did anyone try contact cement? I think that stuff would be airtight if you mounted it on the rim before it was dry.

  19. #219
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    I'm new to tubeless on Surly rims but been running Umas for a couple of years this way. Wonder if this would work? I was thinking I might have to run a narrow strip of Stans tape around one side just due to the valley using up to much of the wide tape. Thoughts?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_119395996101883.jpeg  

    Last edited by bdundee; 10-26-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  20. #220
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    When I have bud mounted with a tube on my 9ZERO7 fork I had 5-6mm clearance on each side. Mounted split tube I had to trim a few mm off each side of bud.

    I would guess tubeless adds 10-15mm to width.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    I keep thinking about 3M windo-weld. Same stuff that holds the windshield in your car. Crazy strong.

    This morning I dug out an old BMX tire/tube to test on but it's pretty oxidized. I'm going to have to find a way to clean up the bond areas to get a good test. I just want to clean it up inside the tire, run a bead of urethane around the inside, stick the tube in then see if I can pull the tube out after it sets up

    Something about all this just doesn't feel right. I can't believe I'm the first person interested in having the split tube come off with the tire. Probably a lot harder than it seems.
    If your the first I am the second. I think this would be the best thing for fat tubeless. Maybe one of the tube or tire companies would have some information on rubber bonding.

  22. #222
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Someone posted a while ago that he rubber cemented the tire and tube together. I thought about it but was concerned about getting the bead seated correctly each time.
    Do some digging and I'm sure you'll find the posts.

  23. #223
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    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Someone posted a while ago that he rubber cemented the tire and tube together. I thought about it but was concerned about getting the bead seated correctly each time.
    Do some digging and I'm sure you'll find the posts.
    It was exp18. Maybe he will chime in with more detail.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?
    For me the tape and or foam is all too much work and when I tried the tape on BFL's I'd did not work. I have done the split tube with perfect results. It's just messy to change tires. Split tube is where it's at for me.

  26. #226
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    exp18 did some work with this last year in post 2 of this thread...
    tubeless fatbike made easy

  27. #227
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    I read through exp18's earlier post on this. Now I have another project!!!

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    If we can find a glue that would really bond the tube to tire we are in business.
    Glues to consider:
    • Rubber cement vs vulcanizing glue - There is confusion on the wording of these products. The rubber cement sold for $1.99 by Elmers et. al. is not meant for permanent bonding. Slime makes a product called "rubber cement" ($4.99) that may be as good as the vulcanizing stuff tire stores use.
    • Urethane glue - Check the roofing dept of your local bld improvement outlet. They sell a urethane glue meant for roof patching.
    • Shoe goo - pretty strong stuff
    • Clear silicone caulk - not a very strong bond but will fill gaps well.

    Choice 2
    Glue the split tube on the inside or outside? Either way turns out to be difficult to remove the tire tube assemby without damage.
    Lots of people have been successful at various tubeless setups but swapping tires frequently is still a big mess and giant PITA, the whole idea exp18 is working on is to make the complete assembly easy to change tires.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?
    I am just a noob to he tubeless game, but my experience is this.
    1) Tape only, no foam =Not a snowballs chance in hell.
    2) Rimstrip, foam & tape = It may have worked with a compressor, but not a chance for me with a floor pump.
    3) Rimstrip, foam & tape w/ split tube= Worked well for me with floor pump.

    I am going to ride the setup today and make sure it works. But I chased my son around the yard yesterday with no issue.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I am just a noob to he tubeless game, but my experience is this.
    1) Tape only, no foam =Not a snowballs chance in hell.
    2) Rimstrip, foam & tape = It may have worked with a compressor, but not a chance for me with a floor pump.
    3) Rimstrip, foam & tape w/ split tube= Worked well for me with floor pump.

    I am going to ride the setup today and make sure it works. But I chased my son around the yard yesterday with no issue.
    I set a bFL on a CS up last night with just a Surly rim strip just to see if I could get it to seat and no problem. The Bfl did fit fairly tight and it even held air for a few minutes.

    I think I am going to go this route after I get the CS a little lighter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_119395996101883.jpeg  


  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    my understanding is that rubber cement only removes oxidation so an uncured rubber patch can stick
    Vulcanizing is the term the tire industry uses to refer to the process of laminating the tire tread to the tire carcass. Perhaps you have seen "retread" strips laying on the highway - it is not 100%.
    The term has been bastardized for things like RTV silicone - room temperature vulcanizing, that certainly would not hold tread on a tire casing. The main difficulty in the tubeless process is not getting anything to stick and work, but to be able to remove and replace the whole tire/split/tube without damage. I've used the window weld stuff on a window. It is indeed sticky - so much so, that if you screw up it means scraping it all off and starting over. I am certain it will stick, I just don't see that it solves the tire change problem.

  32. #232
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    I think I am going to go this route after I get the CS a little lighter.
    What are you going to be doing to accomplish this?

    I realize that there isn't a tire that works for every circumstance and I change a tire now and then. It sounds like some of you change tires a lot, how often are some of you changing tires and for what purpose?

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    What are you going to be doing to accomplish this?
    What make the CS lighter? If so I will reveal when done (insert evil laugh here)

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    we both see the problem the same

    What I'm thinking of is a normal split tube tubeless set up to start with.

    Then I want to run a bead of urethane around the outside between the split tube and the tire before trimming the excess split tube off. The urethane would hold the split tube in place when I change the tire making the tire, sealant and split tube a single component. I would have to leave out a small section of the urethane bead as a breach for booger retrieval and sealant changes
    This is exactly where I want to go with this. This will be one of my next projects right after I finish my fat trailer I am working on now. I have my new bike now but I will hold off going tubeless until I explore the available bonding agents more closely.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    ... I do not anticipate problems removing the assembly. May find out differently
    I didn't anticipate getting a divorce...

    So, if you look thru exp18's trials he moved on to gluing the split tube inside the tire, and he is beyond that now. YMMV

    I await your trial with anticipation. Report back your success or lack thereof.

  36. #236
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Apologies I'd i didn't see earlier in this thread but has anybody tried gluing the split tube to the inside of the rim?

  37. #237
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    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.
    Thanks man! I appreciate the positive feedback!

  39. #239
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    First ride on split tube RD/Nate/Bud. I will say that I "feel" like it was faster than w/ tubes. I ran the same 10psi in the Nate as w/ tubes, and the Nate felt a lot softer. Bud was @ 7psi, and man-o-man does that bad boy STICK!

    275lbs w/o gear hit some rocks/roots/and a couple 2ft jumps and (knock on wood) all is well.

  40. #240
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    I have been running ghetto tubeless on my 29er for a long time, I have tried split tube and gorilla tape. In my experience split tube is easier and more likely to last. I understand the desire to be able to change tires easily, I dread getting sidewall tears in the woods (rocky terrain around here so it happens), putting a tube in a tubeless set up in the woods is always a hassle.

    All that to say, I have some experience with tubeless. I guess if I was looking to make a tubeless easily changeable it seems like the best way to do it would be to lay the split tube inside the tire, so when you're using a tire lever its not coming in contact with the tube. Getting an airtight seal would probably be difficult. I was thinking if you could get the tire inflated the pressure would make that a good connection, but you'd have to find the right glue that would both hold the tube in place while you aired it up and was not completely dry so that the pressure would seal it.

    I'm going to try this soon, I think contact cement is the way to go, but until I try it, its just a guess.

    The one negative to this kind of set up is that if you do blow out a sidewall and need to put a tube in, you'd have to cut the glued in tube out trailside, that would be painful.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    The one negative to this kind of set up is that if you do blow out a sidewall and need to put a tube in, you'd have to cut the glued in tube out trailside, that would be painful.
    It seems the most common way to end up putting a tube in your tubeless setup is spiking it with a stick. Regardless it will result in a tube being fitted, ive been lucky with spiking my buds twice and it sealed again, HuDu's twice also and not so lucky.
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  42. #242
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    Around here its cutting the sidewall on a sharp rock, Stans can't seal that kind of rip.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    as often as needed. more importantly, too often to make tubeless appealing

    nokians and hookworms for skinnys, larry for trail, BFL for snow. black floyd for hardpack and stone path
    This is exactly why I am apprehensive in selling my Pugsley. Even though my Moonlander is my preferred fatbike, it's nice to leave the Pug set up for more trail/hard pack-oriented conditions, and save the more expensive Moonie tires for deep snow conditions.

  44. #244
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    Hi, can someone please advise me on what to use as rim tape for a LM drilled rims.
    Currently I am using a 24 inch tube and it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Cheers

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by saron View Post
    Hi, can someone please advise me on what to use as rim tape for a LM drilled rims.
    Currently I am using a 24 inch tube and it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Cheers
    Use a purpose made "rim-strip" from Surly or one of many colored "duct tape" or Gorilla Tape. You do need to have the holes covered before laying on the split tube.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by saron View Post
    ...it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Do the Gorilla tape, it's tougher than the rim strips.

  47. #247
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    For those that have done the split tube thing - what size tube are you using? I grabbed a 24" tube off the shelf at the local hardware store (I know!) without really looking at anything besides the 24" part. I got it home and its 1 3/8", that is not nearly wide enough to cover even a 80mm rim. I don't recall there being another size on the shelf, maybe I need to order tubes.

  48. #248
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    If you read through the thread, all of the info you need is there.

    You won't find the tubes you're looking for at the hardware store.

    QTubes 24x2.4-2.75 are the biggest I've found with a presta valve. Often have to special order through your LBS unless you have a place that does a lot of fat bike stuff, then they might keep stock.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  49. #249
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    Thanks, I've been following the thread, neglected to go back through and see if it was in there.

  50. #250
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    Almost 200 miles later, and still no burps or loss of air. Excellent traction & ride quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.

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