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  1. #151
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    Taping. With Gorilla tape, I always go around the rim, holding the bottom of the rim to the floor with my feet, keeping tension on the roll of tape - but specifically getting the edge of the tape into the bead seat area. Since this means the edge is passing under the bead hook, you have to keep pulling the roll towards the inside to get the tape under the hook, then moving ahead with applying the tape to the bead seat. I get maybe 1/2" to an inch every cycle - but the result is smooth application to the whole bottom of the bead seat area.

    I note that I do not push the rest of the tape into place as I am doing this. Once you've gone completely around the rim - tape smooth and sealed in the bead seat - then you go around pressing the rest of the tape into place. And not all at once, either. Going around about a thumb width at a time making sure things are laying flat is well worth the effort.

    I'm working on 100's, either USC or Clownshoes. I use regular Gorilla Tape (1.88" wide) on one bead and "tough and wide" GT (2.88" wide) on the other for about 3/4" overlap. I put down the wide tape first, then the regular so the exposed tape edge is as far from where the tire bead will wipe over it as possible.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Just curious. I still have a lot of bead play, even with the tube. Are you running foam too?

    I found that a cheapo rubber 26" rim strip around the outside of the tire, settles the tire inward a touch, all around, and allows for a more uniform bead seating. It's allowed me to do them without the foam, easily, but with a compressor. Still nowhere near tight enough to seat with a floor pump.

    Wondering if your floor pump is about 6' high
    MCS, here is my procedure for NATE's on Clownshoes/
    Install Surly rim strip:
    Install Q-Tube, 24 x 2.75, inflate a little, straighten the seam, slit all the way around with scissor, wipe off powder:
    Install NATE:
    Tie a rope around NATE and tighten enough to push tire out to bead area:
    Inflate with normal hand pump until tire bead seats:
    Remove valve core and add Stans, re-install valve core, pump to desired pressure:
    Trim off excess Q-Tube:
    Ride!

    NO foam, no tape, no problem!

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I'm sure split-tube is functional, but to me it offers no advantages. It weighs more than a 2.5-3.0 mtb tube (without sealant), is harder to set-up than tubes and harder to repair in the field. I understand if you ride in a thorny area, but for me its taped or bust.
    Fish, the main reason for tubeless is to not have flat issues "in the field". Fat tubeless is totally different than any other tubeless tire application. In fact, I haven't heard anyone on here saying that they have had any flat issues in the field if they have a successful tubeless setup.

  4. #154
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    I shouldn't even say anything, but I have yet to deal with flatting in the wild.

    If flats aren't really a concern, would tubeless be worth the trouble? Some say the ride quality and tire profile at lower psi is improved.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Fish, the main reason for tubeless is to not have flat issues "in the field". Fat tubeless is totally different than any other tubeless tire application. In fact, I haven't heard anyone on here saying that they have had any flat issues in the field if they have a successful tubeless setup.
    I mentioned this in another post a while ago. I was washing the bikes after a ride and I found a very large thorn sticking out of my wife's front Nate. I got the pliers out and pulled it out. A small pin head sized spot of Stan's appeared and that was that. If the tire had a tube in it I would have been fixing it out in the field with the Mosquitos eating me alive.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    If flats aren't really a concern, would tubeless be worth the trouble? Some say the ride quality and tire profile at lower psi is improved.
    I did tubeless conversion on my Fatty recently. I went tubeless because the sealant I've been using successfully on my regular MTB tires failed to seal a few small goathead punctures, presumably due to the 2.7" tubes stretched excessively. Those supposed improvements in traction/ride quality, if there was any, were my secondary concerns. I seldom ride on soft surface so I've been running 15 psi in tubes.

    After the conversion, tires definitely feel more pliable at the same pressure. It is almost as if I can feel each knob on the rear tire grabbing dirt as I start pedaling. Up front, it made the sidewall flex more than I like under cornering, so I ended up bumping up the pressure a little.

    It made big enough differences that I converted one of my regular MTBs to tubeless this past weekend. I noticed similar improvement, but not quite as pronounced as I experienced on fat tires.

    To me, it was well worth a couple hours of work. YMMV.

    One thing I don't know of is how well Stan's and other sealant work in sub-freezing temperature. It's not much of a concern for me (southwest resident), but it could possibly be a problem for people living up north.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    ...One thing I don't know of is how well Stan's and other sealant work in sub-freezing temperature. It's not much of a concern for me (southwest resident), but it could possibly be a problem for people living up north.
    Stan's says: "Special anti-freeze agents allow the sealant to be used in environments as cold as -30į F."
    I haven't ridden that cold but never had any issues in sub-freezing temps.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    It weighs more than a 2.5-3.0 mtb tube (without sealant).
    Curious how a 24x2.75 tube with ~1/3 of it's body cut off, weighs more than a tube you mention???

    Obviously, this is garage level choices we're talking about here, no one is making a dime on it or selling their own product over another, I just get to wondering where folks get these ideas from is all...
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjdog800 View Post
    Stan's says: "Special anti-freeze agents allow the sealant to be used in environments as cold as -30į F."
    I haven't ridden that cold but never had any issues in sub-freezing temps.
    Happily ridden Stans into the sub zero range on many occasions over the years, no issues.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjdog800 View Post
    Stan's says: "Special anti-freeze agents allow the sealant to be used in environments as cold as -30į F."
    I haven't ridden that cold but never had any issues in sub-freezing temps.
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Happily ridden Stans into the sub zero range on many occasions over the years, no issues.....
    Good to know. Thanks guys.

    Where I live (southwest), sealant drying is a bigger concern. I've been using 50/50 mixture of Stan's and Slime ATV. This seems to last longer than straight Stan's.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    I mentioned this in another post a while ago. I was washing the bikes after a ride and I found a very large thorn sticking out of my wife's front Nate. I got the pliers out and pulled it out. A small pin head sized spot of Stan's appeared and that was that. If the tire had a tube in it I would have been fixing it out in the field with the Mosquitos eating me alive.
    Yeah, and how much fun is that?

    jonshonda
    I shouldn't even say anything, but I have yet to deal with flatting in the wild.

    If flats aren't really a concern, would tubeless be worth the trouble? Some say the ride quality and tire profile at lower psi is improved.
    For me it would be. The ability to ride with extremely low pressures while winter riding on marginally groomed trails without pinch flatting is just as important. I've ridden in some very adverse weather that if I had to stop to fix a flat, it might have been life threatening.

  12. #162
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    I have been adding a little cold weather window washing fluid every couple of months or so to my tubeless tires. When i have removed my tire the sealant is nice and wet, when i have not add fluid it starts to dry up and i also have slow leaks. i have riden in below 0 F with 3 or 4 psi with this mix of sealant and washer fluid with no problems. i can not remember if i have rode in same condition with just strait sealant with my tubeless set up.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Good to know. Thanks guys.

    Where I live (southwest), sealant drying is a bigger concern. I've been using 50/50 mixture of Stan's and Slime ATV. This seems to last longer than straight Stan's.
    Antifreeze in the form of either ethylene glycol (toxic/poisonous) or propylene glycol (nontoxic) is a major ingredient in most tire sealants. Both Stan's and Slime have propylene glycol in them - but not just for the antifreeze properties - either glycol has a very low vapor pressure, meaning it evaporates very slowly.

    Lot's of folks add windshield washer fluid, but that's not just one thing. Some of it is ammonia based, some is alcohol based, and some is just detergent. It's all formulated to not freeze solid in your vehicle's washer fluid jug, but if you run a latex sealant, ammonia helps the latex stay liquid - until it's coming thru a hole and drying out.

    {edit} You can read thru best-tubeless-brew thread for info. My DIY sealant recipe usually goes for about 12 months in southern NM.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  14. #164
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    ^Uh-oh, we got a scientist in the house!

    I'll check out the thread (holy crap, 97 pages ) and try your recipe for the next batch. Thanks for the tip!

  15. #165
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    @wadester I've been keeping away from that thread because it's nice to have a few things still done for me aka. stans but.....
    DIY sealant is it going to save me a few bones over stans?

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFFcourse View Post
    @wadester I've been keeping away from that thread because it's nice to have a few things still done for me aka. stans but.....
    DIY sealant is it going to save me a few bones over stans?
    It is cheaper to make - but you make up bigger batches, so there is more of an investment. It also lasts longer than Stan's - up to 4 times as long, so it's cheaper that way too.

    Pint of mold builder is $10-15, cheapo antifreeze tends to come in gallons, for $5-10, propylene glycol you have to hunt for, $10/pt. Slime is easy chunkulation, I got a gallon for $30 a loong time ago - but I see 24oz for $10. See how it adds up?

    I keep mine in a sealed container, and it's good to the last drop - no wastage, and you do go thru it over time. You will have to buy more materials than you need for one batch, but again - you do go thru it over time.

    I used to use an 80oz glass pickle jar, but my basic recipe is 80oz - so it was hard to get the last bit stirred. Now I have a Rubbermaid Mixermate gallon pitcher with room to shake - but I guess a gallon glass jar would be just as good.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    I have been adding a little cold weather window washing fluid every couple of months or so to my tubeless tires. When i have removed my tire the sealant is nice and wet, when i have not add fluid it starts to dry up and i also have slow leaks. i have riden in below 0 F with 3 or 4 psi with this mix of sealant and washer fluid with no problems. i can not remember if i have rode in same condition with just strait sealant with my tubeless set up.
    exp18;
    I have seen quite a few of your posts regarding different setups that you have tried. Could you summarize, compare and contrast all of your experiences in one post? I have seen you do split tube glued to the inside of the tire with no sealant needed, have you tried split tube glued to the outside of the tire? Anyway I also see you have used 8 wraps of shrink wrap with no sealant needed, now I see you are using sealant with windshield washer fluid. What is the ultimate setup and why? Thanks for sharing your varied experiences.

  18. #168
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    I could run my tubeless setups with little or no extra sealant in the tire but the purpose of having the sealant in the tire is flat prevention from punctures and sealing the walls of the tire as it breaks down due to riding it at very low pressure during some winter rides.

    I have been on numerous rides this summer with people running tubes where they flatted and I haven't had a problem. The last time was just a couple of weeks ago and I noticed I had goatheads in my tires after another person flatted. I pulled mine out and never had a problem.

  19. #169
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    On my On-One Floaters, I can see the sealant seeping through the sidewalls here and there, though they are holding air pressure (15+) just fine. These tires aren't that much heavier (sometimes lighter) than most 2.5" downhill tires, so I'm not very surprised how thin the sidewalls are.

    Can't speak for other fat tires, but running sealant is mandatory on these tires if you run them tubeless IMO.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.b. View Post
    exp18;
    I have seen quite a few of your posts regarding different setups that you have tried. Could you summarize, compare and contrast all of your experiences in one post? I have seen you do split tube glued to the inside of the tire with no sealant needed, have you tried split tube glued to the outside of the tire? Anyway I also see you have used 8 wraps of shrink wrap with no sealant needed, now I see you are using sealant with windshield washer fluid. What is the ultimate setup and why? Thanks for sharing your varied experiences.
    I would also like to hear what exp18 has to say about his tubeless experiences.

    .....with pictures, too!!! Thanks.

  21. #171
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    I will do a update on the things I have tried probably tomorrow. Itís crazy busy this time of year at work, snow is coming soon!

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    On my On-One Floaters, I can see the sealant seeping through the sidewalls here and there, though they are holding air pressure (15+) just fine. These tires aren't that much heavier (sometimes lighter) than most 2.5" downhill tires, so I'm not very surprised how thin the sidewalls are.
    Wow downhill tires weight more than 1.5kg **** that!

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    I will do a update on the things I have tried probably tomorrow. Itís crazy busy this time of year at work, snow is coming soon!
    I am going to start my diet tomorrow too. ;-)

  24. #174
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Curious how a 24x2.75 tube with ~1/3 of it's body cut off, weighs more than a tube you mention???

    Obviously, this is garage level choices we're talking about here, no one is making a dime on it or selling their own product over another, I just get to wondering where folks get these ideas from is all...
    That 24" tube plus sealant is heavier than a 26x2.6" tube without sealant.
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  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    That 24" tube plus sealant is heavier than a 26x2.6" tube without sealant.
    Foul! I've reduced (but not by much) the weight of my wheelset by removing the lightweight Q-Tubes I originally used and replacing them with split and trimmed 24" Q-Tubes and 2 scoops of Stan's. And I get flat protection to boot!

  26. #176
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    Relax man. For one, I'd be interested in some numbers if you have indeed lost some weight on your wheels with the split tube method.

    However, there are a lot of nits we can pick here. On the one hand, I don't think the Q-Tubes UL 26x2.4-2.7" are actually durable enough for regular use on a fat bike. Mine came apart at the seams on me. So for me, the baseline I'm working off of is the more durable Specalized 26x2.3-3.0 tubes that weigh in at 279 grams.

    On the other hand, well I don't know how much a 24" tube that has had some of the rubber cut off weighs, maybe 200 grams? But some of those standard 24" tubes weigh more than the UL 26" tube so maybe its more.

    Also, I figure you need at least 3 scoops of sealant since a fat bike tire has about double the surface area of a standard tire... most people are using 3 scoops, which seems a little suspect to me, but lets use it as a baseline at 90 grams.

    Then add in some foam to allow the tire to air up (I have almost a 1/2" gap with my Rolling Dayrlls and Escalators, no way that my combination would air up without filling the gap a bit). Put it together, and its probably roughly the same. Again, I'd like some numbers on what you did though, I'm just estimating here. In particular, I'd like to know what that split tube weighs once you cut it down, and if you're using an ultra light model or a standard model (will a lightweight 24" tube even work?)

    For me, the flat protection is a non-issue since I ride 90% of my miles on snow and the only flats I have gotten so far were from the tubes coming apart at the seams. Lower rolling resistance, more float and lighter weight are the issues that matter to me.

    Honestly, unless I can save a reasonable amount of weight the hassle of making it tubeless, maintaining it, and possibly swapping tires with a bunch of sealant in them probably isn't worth it to me... but I'd like to try and see if I can. I'm going to give it a second try with the tape tomorrow. When I pull the tape from the first attempt I'll weigh it with a valve stem to see what it weighs so we can compare.... and hopefully I'll have some positive results to share as well.
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  27. #177
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    I've used the split tube method with HuDu's on holy Rolling Darryls and Escalators on Marge Lites, both without tape or foam. Granted, I use a soapy water and a compressor to initially get the tires to seat, replace the valve, and then slowly hand pump the tires until the beads pop into the seat which usually occurs at about 25psi. Then I immediately reduce it to riding pressure. The tube/bead interface is tight and lightweight tubes work great. I've had them keep aired up several days without sealant. That's why I only use two scoops and have had no issues on two different fatbikes for a year now and have been riding trails all summer long.

    Regarding performance, It's proven that losing the tube does indeed reduce rolling resistance as there is no scrubbing between the tube and tire which is especially true at the lower psi run in fat tires. Also, even at the same weights, it is easier to get a fat tire rolling without the weight of the tube at the extremities of the wheel circumference. The sealant weight doesn't spread to the tire extremities until the wheel gains some speed.

    How significant are the advantages, who knows? But the physics are favorable.

  28. #178
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    Yes k b time to start your diet. I have tried quite a few different way of doing tubeless. My original intent was to run tubeless without the use of sealant. I like the way tubeless rolls and we do not have the puncture problem here in AK. like some places. But I came to the same conclusion as a post I read earlier ( I canít remember who posted it ) that the tires we use was not designed for tubeless, so there for the tire itself leaks and you need sealant for that if nothing else. I could not find a way that consistently did not need sealant anyway. Also I find that the tires we use very in quality and size, that changes things that work and donít work.
    I started out trying out the tape and sealant method. I found that my tires would leak down to 3 or 4 psi after a couple of days. I normally run my tires on hard pack about 8 in the rear and 6 in the front and if I am on the road I run 15 on the rear and 10 in front. I know a lot of people thinks thatís more psi than you need but that work for me. But at that pressure you will need to add air about every 4 hrs. or so with the tape method.
    2nd I did the spilt tube method it works great even at the higher pressures, but if you trim the tube it is near impossible to re-use the tube when changing tires. So I did the glue the split tube to the tire method this works but again when you go to re-mount the tire the tube will catch on the bead of the rim and will ether pull the tube away from the tire or you can just not get it out. Either way it will cause it to leak there.
    3rd I did the shrink wrap method with the foam tape applied to the bead of the tire. I first tried the shrink warp without sealant and foam tape. Sometime it worked good and sometime not so good. So I added the foam tape to help with the inconsistences I was having form tire to tire. But as I said earlier to stop the slow leaks I had to use sealant. I am still using this method. I would like to find a method that is a little easier to change tires.
    I have a different method that I have been run on the rear tire for a little while now but it is going to be a little heavier than the shrink wrap method. I am using a tape that is for commercial membrane roofing repairs its expensive about a $100 for a 50ft roll. Its 6Ē wide and has a vinyl top with a 16th inch thick rubber adhesive. It sealed very well with a couple of scoops of sealant, I have not had to add air in a couple of weeks. If I can change tires without changing the tape I think it will be the best one for me.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Yes k b time to start your diet. I have tried quite a few different way of doing tubeless. My original intent was to run tubeless without the use of sealant. I like the way tubeless rolls and we do not have the puncture problem here in AK. like some places. But I came to the same conclusion as a post I read earlier ( I canít remember who posted it ) that the tires we use was not designed for tubeless, so there for the tire itself leaks and you need sealant for that if nothing else. I could not find a way that consistently did not need sealant anyway. Also I find that the tires we use very in quality and size, that changes things that work and donít work.
    I started out trying out the tape and sealant method. I found that my tires would leak down to 3 or 4 psi after a couple of days. I normally run my tires on hard pack about 8 in the rear and 6 in the front and if I am on the road I run 15 on the rear and 10 in front. I know a lot of people thinks thatís more psi than you need but that work for me. But at that pressure you will need to add air about every 4 hrs. or so with the tape method.
    2nd I did the spilt tube method it works great even at the higher pressures, but if you trim the tube it is near impossible to re-use the tube when changing tires. So I did the glue the split tube to the tire method this works but again when you go to re-mount the tire the tube will catch on the bead of the rim and will ether pull the tube away from the tire or you can just not get it out. Either way it will cause it to leak there.
    3rd I did the shrink wrap method with the foam tape applied to the bead of the tire. I first tried the shrink warp without sealant and foam tape. Sometime it worked good and sometime not so good. So I added the foam tape to help with the inconsistences I was having form tire to tire. But as I said earlier to stop the slow leaks I had to use sealant. I am still using this method. I would like to find a method that is a little easier to change tires.
    I have a different method that I have been run on the rear tire for a little while now but it is going to be a little heavier than the shrink wrap method. I am using a tape that is for commercial membrane roofing repairs its expensive about a $100 for a 50ft roll. Its 6Ē wide and has a vinyl top with a 16th inch thick rubber adhesive. It sealed very well with a couple of scoops of sealant, I have not had to add air in a couple of weeks. If I can change tires without changing the tape I think it will be the best one for me.
    Thanks so much exp18, I feel skinnier just reading your prose! I had backtracked a few of your posts to see you had tried various methods. Your varied experience is way more valuable to me than people with huge opinions and miniscule data (and probably something else that is small too).

    So anyway, my assessment of the situation comes down to this:
    1. Fatbike tubeless is different than other bikes due to the low pressure often used. Lower pressure can cause more friction between the tube and tire, necessitating a tubeless methodology for lower rolling resistance.
    2. Currently available tires and tire manufacturing variations seem to require some sort of fluid to stop leaks thru the sidewalls.
    3. The Saran wrap method seals the rim well, but the interface of the tire and rim needs some moldable, pliant material to prevent leaks at that boundary layer.

    I think I am ready to put my tires on a diet now!

  30. #180
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    Great summary k b you can tell I am not a tech writer in my day job but hope it helps

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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Anybody know if a 26 X 1.9/2.1 tube will work on a Clownshoe with split tube?

  32. #182
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    A little OT, but if you are running tubes, its an old roadie trick to use talcum powder (baby powder) on your tubes and inner liner of your tire. Get them nice and powdery and it will reduce friction between the tube and the tire casing. Also someone once told me it reduces the incidents of flats, but I'm not sure how.
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  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Anybody know if a 26 X 1.9/2.1 tube will work on a Clownshoe with split tube?
    It will fit loosely, so it's not ideal, but it will *work*.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Anybody know if a 26 X 1.9/2.1 tube will work on a Clownshoe with split tube?
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    It will fit loosely, so it's not ideal, but it will *work*.....
    Always used 24s myself with good results. Never tried a 26.

  35. #185
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    I've tried 29er tubes on a 29er rim and it was really hard to get the tube to sit correctly and to get the tire over the top. The tube kept slipping around, I would stick to a size down.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Anybody know if a 26 X 1.9/2.1 tube will work on a Clownshoe with split tube?
    Q-Tube 24 x 2.75 is the way to go there. Nice and tight with plenty of excess to hold on to while working the tire on. Trim or not after, your choice.

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    I've got lots of useful tips for you, but since you made a completely derogatory comment in your post, I refuse to help you.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"
    +1!!

  38. #188
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    Wow sheltered life/country I had to urban dictionary that one to confirm it's meaning!

  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    I've got lots of useful tips for you, but since you made a completely derogatory comment in your post, I refuse to help you.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"
    Congratulations. I already got some knowledgable input on it anyways.

  40. #190
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    I won't ding him but he deserves it

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Schott again."
    I had no problem with either.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  41. #191
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    I realize that sometimes people might come off as arrogant or as if we know everything and I think that many of us don't mean to be that way. There are those of us who do a lot of riding and have come up with methods that work for various things, including tubeless, but often people don't want to listen to those who have the knowledge being asked about. It is sometimes frustrating.

    I've always found Schott to be pretty reasonable and he has some usable knowledge.

  42. #192
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    Thank you mod's. If we delete curse words we certainly should delete racist comments!

  43. #193
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    Re: Tubeless Tuesday.

    Got my front wheel (Husker Du on Rolling Darryl) set up tonight using sill seal and Gorilla Tape. Being used to using Stan's yellow tape on my other bikes, I got the foam and tape installed on Sunday and let it sit with an inflated tube inside to help set the tape. When I continued the process tonight I found the foam had collapsed and I remembered a mention in this thread (?) about that happening between setting it up and changing the tire later. I ripped out the foam and tape, applied new materials, and followed the rest of the instructions. I only had about 5 ounces of Stan's left, so I dumped that in. I hope that's enough, but I need to pick up another bottle anyway. We'll see how long it takes me to get around to the back wheel.

    Thanks for all the info, especially to the fatties who took the time to figure it all out so I could do it in an evening.
    "An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools.Ē -Ernest Hemingway

  44. #194
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    Didn't mean to rock the boat. Just standing up for what is right. Back on topic, my tape only tubeless went soft this week while I rode my mariachi, I think it was jealous, as the rides were perfect. Guess I need to ride it more.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan, yo! View Post
    ...using sill seal and Gorilla Tape. Being used to using Stan's yellow tape on my other bikes, I got the foam and tape installed on Sunday and let it sit with an inflated tube inside to help set the tape. ...
    Using Gorilla tape, I don't really see a need to put a tube in to compress the seams. Not that it hurts, but I've done it both ways and have taken a lot of them apart later and it doesn't seem necessary if the tape overlaps sufficiently and has been applied with tension.
    It just creates another step.

  46. #196
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    Yeah, I realized that after the first trial. Second time 'round I used the tube to seat the beads at about 25psi then removed it immediately before the foam could compress. I was able to seat the remaining bead with a floor pump.

    I didn't measure the pressure this morning, but there was still plenty of air in it. Before the Stan's there was some air coming out of one of the spoke holes next to the valve. Shaking the wheel sealed it up.

    FWIW, I'm using an old DT Swiss tubeless valve because I had it laying around. I'm a little worried that the rubber foot on the base isn't very large and that tightening it too much may rip through the tape. This may be a non-issue depending on how much the foam compresses under normal use.

  47. #197
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    tape and foam FAIL, part 2

    Well, as you can see in the photo below, my second attempt at foam+tape went a lot smoother than the first, literally.

    Unfortunately the project was another fail. The deal breaker is that the sealant is leaking around the valve stem. Since the ammonia in the Stan's sealant dissolves this closed-cell foam, as soon as any sealant leaks out into the foam, the foam starts breaking down and game over.

    OzzyBMX: how did you seal up your valve hole?

    Another issue is that this foam is too thick and 3-dimensional. Its a pain to install an the tire gets REALLY tight, its hard to fit it on. So maybe this could work if I could find another source of material to fill in the middle of the rim, but other than that I'm dead in the water.

    Last issue is that the tape seems kind of flimsy on the bead hook, and though I think it would work for a few tires installs, I'm thinking of having 2 sets of tires this winter, and I'm guessing that swapping back and forth would create damage that would require re-taping more often than I would like.

    What do people have for suggestions for space fillers that don't dissolve in ammonia? I'm going to need something other than the foam I'm using, even if I go to split tube.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-tape.jpg  

    Last edited by FishMan473; 10-16-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  48. #198
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    I used 3 layers of this one. The material seems to be identical to weatherstripping material you find at auto parts stores.

    EPDM foam

    I have no idea how resistant it is to ammonia. It's been a little over two weeks since I did tubeless conversion on my Fatty and there's no noticeable/visible leak thus far (other than from thin spots on the sidewall).

    This foam is adhesive backed. Applying the first layer was tricky, as it's VERY sticky to aluminum and the foam tears easily if you try to peel it off. 2nd and 3rd layers were easy to do, and the foam stays in place as you apply tape over them.

  49. #199
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    I used this stuff: Tubeless Tuesday.-24dcfb3a-1ede-45f8-9b05-47efe88d8499_1000.jpg

    Owens Corning FOAMULAR 1/4 in. x 5-1/2 in. x 50 ft. FoamSealR-2FS at The Home Depot

    And a split tube for the HRD's with HD's. The split tube was the key. I tried different foams and different tapes (both gorilla and the fat blue tape you have). Split tube was really quite easy in comparison. Not sure why you'd still need a different foam if you're doing split tube. If you do split tube, the sealant should never come into contact with your foam, no matter what you're using.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  50. #200
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    Foam for split tube may still help get the initial seal if the rim profile is too deep to position the bead for best sealing.

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