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  1. #301
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    I trimmed the split tube on my wife's Nate/Clownshoes right back to the rim with a razor blade. You can't even tell there is a tube there. However I don't think I could reuse the split tube because of it. She has been ridding them all Sumer and fall so far. I will tune up the sealant next spring and probably have to put in a new tube. They are cheap enough for one a year to me.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    I trimmed the split tube on my wife's Nate/Clownshoes right back to the rim with a razor blade. You can't even tell there is a tube there. However I don't think I could reuse the split tube because of it. She has been ridding them all Sumer and fall so far. I will tune up the sealant next spring and probably have to put in a new tube. They are cheap enough for one a year to me.
    I've trimmed off the excess tube as well and have had no issues reusing the split tube when refreshing the Stan's or changing the tire rotation. Thought about using some double faced tape to keep the split tube in place but it wasn't necessary. Might be a little trickier on ClownS though.

    See picture:
    http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/fat...y-img_2246.jpg

  3. #303
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    Just want to say thanks to everyone here that has given their input on" how to tubeless". Set up my RD's using the foam, gorilla tape method. I was able to get both rims and tires ( Lou's and Bud's) done right the first time with no leaks at all. Still holding air after 2 days ! I have read this whole thread and learned so much . Thanks again to all that make this possible.. You all ROCK !

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoefatty View Post
    Just want to say thanks to everyone here that has given their input on" how to tubeless". Set up my RD's using the foam, gorilla tape method. I was able to get both rims and tires ( Lou's and Bud's) done right the first time with no leaks at all. Still holding air after 2 days ! I have read this whole thread and learned so much . Thanks again to all that make this possible.. You all ROCK !
    +1. This is the place to learn about fat bikes. That's why I'm here too.

  5. #305
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    I was thinking about my burping problem and I don't think it would be any different with a pugs rim. From a bread seating perspective the pugs has a smaller shelf, but it doesn't have a ridge or anything to hold the bead. Just saying I think I'd have the same issue.

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  6. #306
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    BURPING TIP.... for some reason a BUD or LOU seals up like a glove on marge lites, a Husker Du and a 3.8 Knard on the other hand has problems without the split tube method... dunno why. They spit sealant down the sidewall outside constantly and become a PITA. Ive even had a mate... He's a flyin machine too, lose a knard 1 lap into a 7 lap race... singletrack stories, might be different on snow YMMV.

    I have had no luck with either on ML's trying to run them as a light set of tyre's.... prob just as well as i don't feel fat unless i'm rollin BUDZ.
    Last edited by ozzybmx; 11-24-2013 at 08:35 AM.
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  7. #307
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    Ignore my previous comment, I see the issue.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    BURPING TIP.... for some reason a BUD or LOU seals up like a glove on marge lites, a Husker Du and a 3.8 Knard on the other hand has problems without the split tube method... dunno why. They spit sealant down the sidewall outside constantly and become a PITA. Ive even had a mate... He's a flyin machine too, lose a knard 1 lap into a 7 lap race... singletrack stories, might be different on snow YMMV.

    I have had no luck with either on ML's trying to run them as a light set of tyre's.... prob just as well as i don't feel fat unless i'm rollin BUDZ.
    How do you find the budz compared to the hudu/knard (faster rubber) that must be a lot more rolling resistance...

  9. #309
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    wire bead BFL

    I set up a folding BFL to a "new" Large Marge with GT/foam/GT/Stans/pro Park floor pump.

    Will I have the same luck with a wire BFL using the same ghetto?

  10. #310
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    I don't know guys. I've tried setting up my wheels (Rolling Darryl with Husker Du and Escalator) three times now and it has failed each time.

    - With pipe insulating foam and wide Stan's type tape the sealant leaked through the valve core and degrade the foam, it also leaked through the end of the tape. Sealant spit out of the holes in the rim.

    - When I tried to use weather sealing foam instead it just compressed into uselessness.

    - Then I tried a more heavy-duty, clear, window sealing tape again with the pipe insulating foam, but this time I switched to Bontrager sealant. I got two decent rides out of it, and it rode well. But the Husker Du never really sealed at the bead and was leaking air and sealant when you put any strain at the bead at low PSI's. The Escalator seated up fine and seemed to work, but when I took it apart you could see that sealant was working its way under the tape and it would eventually fail. Also, the foam collapsed again so I couldn't reinstall the tires anyway.

    I was actually a little relieved to see that OzzyBMX had problems sealing up Husker Du's and Rolling Darryl's, I thought it was just me.

    I'm not sure this is worth doing anymore. I had a couple great rides this week with tubes in there. Can I be confident in a tubeless set-up at 2psi (or the tubeless equivalent?) Can I count on them when I'm miles into the trail on a cold, cold day?

    Maybe just one more try: where do people get those white strips of foam, and where do you get that helicopter blade tape?



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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I don't know guys.
    Two 24x2.75 presta valve tubes will cost less than a roll of Helicopter tape, and sealant can't soak in thus ruining it's adhesive (since it has none).

    Or, you could just keep fighting it, but I prefer riding.

    Set up several in the last week or so, to a bike, holding and working fine.

    Tubeless is worth it though, but not essential to have fun by any means.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  12. #312
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    "Tubeless is worth it though, but not essential to have fun by any means"

    Whattt???? Tubeless isn't essential to have fun. But what? Huh?

  13. #313
    viva la v-brakes!
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    I'd still need some foam to fill in the gaps so I can air up my tires. Where does one get those white foam strips.... And it doesn't compress over time?


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  14. #314
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    I've been running split tubes w my Holy Rolling Darryl's with ultralight HuDu's for a month or so and have been extremely pleased. They haven't leaked any noticeable air or sealant or had any issues with burping, and I've run anywhere from 10 psi to down around 3 psi (depending on trail conditions). Very happy with this setup.

  15. #315
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    Not seen a great deal regarding the factory rims and Floater tyres on the On-One Fatty . I'm getting one *soon and I would like to go tubeless ASAP .

    One of the few comments I have seen on the subject was how small the bead shelf and lack of bead locking lip on the rims would make it a difficult task .

    Another post noted how loose the Floater tyres are on the factory rims and the high risk of burping out on the trail.

    Anyone have any *actual* experience of going tubeless on the Fatty regarding ease of setup and robustness of conversion ?

    TIA

    Fat Biker

    *Ordered from their UK store 21/12/13 for collection on 28/12/13 with slightly upgraded gearing and a dropper post (If the stock comes through)

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I don't know guys...

    Maybe just one more try: where do people get those white strips of foam, and where do you get that helicopter blade tape?
    One more try... Go Getto (split tube) and start riding!

  17. #317
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    Here is a cheap source for 100 ft roll of 4" helicopter tape, which is commonly known as 'leading edge tape':

    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3323

    I've never used the vendor or the method. I've seen the stuff sold for a lot more $$$ though.

    Edit: shipping will get you. ~$14 for me.

  18. #318
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    Our local shop posted this video two days ago. I have been a huge proponent of split tubes up until now- haven't had any problems with them, but I got a new tire (BUD) and tried this setup on my HRD with the BUD. I didn't use Gorilla tape, but some 70mm blue "Stans" tape. I was able to get it to seat up pretty quickly, but there was a LOT of seeping. After about 4-5 re-fills of air, and working the sealant around, it's been blown up for two days with no loss of pressure. I've taken it around the block and jumped a bit with it, and have taken the pressure up to 20 and down to 2-3psi with no burping or ill effects yet. I'm hoping it will hold up as well as my split tubes have.

    Thanks to the guys at GBS!

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  19. #319
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    Fat Tubeless and Run Flat Protection

    I'm not a fan of tubes or ghetto tubeless method, so looked for a unique solution for fat tubeless.
    After a little bit of R&D, the fat tubeless/run-flat setup is ready for action.

    Prep rims by filling drain holes.
    Tape up the rims using 3M 8898 wide tape.
    Apply Gorilla Tape to seal at overlapping sections.
    Add Stans tubeless valves.
    Tubeless Tuesday.-fb-tape-rims.jpg

    Find suitable closed cell foam that is wide enough to fill the valley.
    It must be stiff and thick enough to be slightly taller than the rim flange.
    Tubeless Tuesday.-fb-run-flat-foam.jpg

    Install the foam onto the rim.
    There must be an 8-10mm of gap on each side of rim flange to allow for the tire bead to sit into.
    Punch a small hole for the valve stem.
    Make one pass and firmly tape the butted ends together with a long section of tape.
    Tubeless Tuesday.-fb-foam-install.jpg

    Mount tire onto the rim with soapy solution.
    (Initially, you just need a floor pump with this setup and nothing fancy like a big compressor.)
    Tubeless Tuesday.-fb-easy-floor-pump.jpg

    Temporarily deflate the tire and remove the tubeless valve core.
    Add tubeless sealant of choice (8 ounces per tire using home brew worked for me) and then reinflate.
    Do the "Stan's Shake" several times and set on the side.
    Add air and repeat several times until fully sealed.
    Tubeless Tuesday.-fb-set-sides.jpg

    Best part of this setup is the worry free riding at ridiculously low pressures. The tire bead has nowhere to go and will not unseat once setup. Also as I mentioned above, there is no need for an air compressor to seat the beads during setup or future rework.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I'd still need some foam to fill in the gaps so I can air up my tires. Where does one get those white foam strips.... And it doesn't compress over time?
    I use a very thin foam meant to go under laminate floorboards. It comes in a wide roll (like one meter wide) so I cut it into suitably wide strips. The upside is that the weight is only 10-15 grams per tire, but it does compress over time. However, compression only affects things when seating the tire, and I've found it quite simple to just cut new strips when I install new tires. It's not something I do regularly anyways.

    As for the SKFLOW method, I like it a lot. The foam isn't compressed under tape or a split tube, but it simply pushes the tire beads outboard to help them seal. You could probably swiss-cheese the foam to further reduce weight, but it does look quite light as it is. Not needing a compressor is a huge pro point in my book, because you might need to mount a tire in the field with the pump you brought with you. Two thumbs up from me!

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    BURPING TIP.... for some reason a BUD or LOU seals up like a glove on marge lites, a Husker Du and a 3.8 Knard on the other hand has problems without the split tube method... dunno why. They spit sealant down the sidewall outside constantly and become a PITA. Ive even had a mate... He's a flyin machine too, lose a knard 1 lap into a 7 lap race... singletrack stories, might be different on snow YMMV.

    I have had no luck with either on ML's trying to run them as a light set of tyre's.... prob just as well as i don't feel fat unless i'm rollin BUDZ.
    I set up my 120 Nate and Knard on Marge Lites using Surly Rims Strips ONLY. I have a ML strip with a Clown Shoe strip over it and it works like a charm. I first seat the beads using a tube and inflating to 25 psi. Broke the bead on one side, pulled out the tube, re-inflated with a compressor to 25 psi to re-seat the bead, removed the core to add 4oz of Stan's, re-inflated and have been riding them for 3 months. I run them at 8-9 psi and I think I've had to add air maybe 3 times, usually when there has been a drop in outside temp.

  22. #322
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    ^the 3.8"/4" dont seem to have as good a fit as the bigger tyres, only my exp YMMV.

    Need something else to beef the bead out like your rimstrips bobK.

    Looking forward to 2014's goodies.... im expecting lots of fat wheel porn this year.
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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    As for the SKFLOW method, I like it a lot. The foam isn't compressed under tape or a split tube, but it simply pushes the tire beads outboard to help them seal. You could probably swiss-cheese the foam to further reduce weight, but it does look quite light as it is. Not needing a compressor is a huge pro point in my book, because you might need to mount a tire in the field with the pump you brought with you. Two thumbs up from me!
    Saul, thanks for the good feedback. I did have to retape the Clownshoe rims to build up the bead shelf a little higher with an extra tape layer to help the tire bead from oozing some sealant at higher pressures. The Bud/Lou tires doesn't fit tightly like a TLR tire. BTW, the foam strip weigh so little that I didn't really think about cutting out the center sections. If anything, it'll make it more heavier due to the sealant sticking inside the opened crevices of the closed cell foam like it did to the cut ends. If anyone wants to try, I used concrete expansion foam.

    Happy New Year.

  24. #324
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    I experimented with a similar method, taping the wheel, and then adding two taped together kerf strips to push the tire outward. The thing I didn't like about it is that all of the surface area of the foam above the tape occupies some of the otherwise free sealant, increasing the amount of sealant required for equivalent sealing of a tape-over-foam method.

    Probably worth the penalty, though, if it works that well. Thanks for the detailed post BTW.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    I experimented with a similar method, taping the wheel, and then adding two taped together kerf strips to push the tire outward. The thing I didn't like about it is that all of the surface area of the foam above the tape occupies some of the otherwise free sealant, increasing the amount of sealant required for equivalent sealing of a tape-over-foam method.

    Probably worth the penalty, though, if it works that well. Thanks for the detailed post BTW.
    Just as you described, 4 oz of a typical sealant brew had too much viscosity during the initial setup with the foam "run flat" strip. The workaround for this issue was to dilute the sealant formula 50% by adding extra antifreeze and water. This increased the slosh factor and reduced the tendency for the sealant to cling onto the foam. To compensate for the diluted sealant brew, 8 oz per tire was required. After the "setup" sealant oozed and evaporated a bit, I topped off the tires with the usual sealant brew formula to ensure flat protection.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Here is a cheap source for 100 ft roll of 4" helicopter tape, which is commonly known as 'leading edge tape':

    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3323

    I've never used the vendor or the method. I've seen the stuff sold for a lot more $$$ though.

    Edit: shipping will get you. ~$14 for me.
    You are the man!! Thanks for the link.

  27. #327
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    I used Gorilla tape + Rubena sealant (Stan's is not available here). And it is leaking around nipples. (B & L on CS) mur | 2013-12-28_Snehulak-tubeless ? rajce.net

    The sealant corrupted the tape! 8-(
    May be it is not exactly Gorilla...

    I bought two downhill tubes, so I'll try the other possibility. If this will not work, I'll keep inner tubes. 8-(

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Here is a cheap source for 100 ft roll of 4" helicopter tape, which is commonly known as 'leading edge tape':

    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3323

    I've never used the vendor or the method. I've seen the stuff sold for a lot more $$$ though.

    Edit: shipping will get you. ~$14 for me.
    Dayyyum !

    $20.99 for the tape . . . . . . hmmmmm ok fine I can live with that

    $65.98 shipping for 1 roll of tape . . . . . . . this I can't live with

    Why is it so expensive to ship the damn stuff ???

    Anyone wanna club together for shipping to the UK ?

    JK it would probably work out $65 per roll to ship LOL

    Any other sources for tape of this kind in the UK please that is of a similarly reasonable price ?

    Other than the extortionate "helicopter" / "frame protection" tape sources .?




    Fat Biker

  29. #329
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    P.S. Any one found a cheap UK source for a suitable tube to cut up for a fat bike tubeless conversion ?

    TIA


    Fat Biker

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy1976 View Post
    I used Gorilla tape + Rubena sealant (Stan's is not available here). And it is leaking around nipples. (B & L on CS) mur | 2013-12-28_Snehulak-tubeless ? rajce.net

    The sealant corrupted the tape! 8-(
    May be it is not exactly Gorilla...

    I bought two downhill tubes, so I'll try the other possibility. If this will not work, I'll keep inner tubes. 8-(
    The Gorilla tape doesn't even need sealant and I've yet to see any instance of sealant "corrupting" the tape. Pull the tape extremely tight and if you are overlapping the tape, overlap it at least an inch. Run the tape to the outside of the rim, push it into the bead area and then trim to the outside of the rim. I recently installed a new tire and didn't realize I was nearly out of Stans. I had just enough to smear around the bead. It's working fine.

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobkorn View Post
    I set up my 120 Nate and Knard on Marge Lites using Surly Rims Strips ONLY. I have a ML strip with a Clown Shoe strip over it and it works like a charm. I first seat the beads using a tube and inflating to 25 psi. Broke the bead on one side, pulled out the tube, re-inflated with a compressor to 25 psi to re-seat the bead, removed the core to add 4oz of Stan's, re-inflated and have been riding them for 3 months. I run them at 8-9 psi and I think I've had to add air maybe 3 times, usually when there has been a drop in outside temp.
    So it somewhat works as long as the psi is kept well above what most people run their tires at when riding on Snow?

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    The Gorilla tape doesn't even need sealant and I've yet to see any instance of sealant "corrupting" the tape. Pull the tape extremely tight and if you are overlapping the tape, overlap it at least an inch. Run the tape to the outside of the rim, push it into the bead area and then trim to the outside of the rim. I recently installed a new tire and didn't realize I was nearly out of Stans. I had just enough to smear around the bead. It's working fine.
    Without sealant, what is the point? You will still get flats from thorns and such, then you will have to install a tube to get home.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    Without sealant, what is the point? You will still get flats from thorns and such, then you will have to install a tube to get home.
    No thorns in my case. For me is fatbike only snowbike. It can ride only white surface. 8-)
    I just need to be able to keep air inside the tire.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    The Gorilla tape doesn't even need sealant and I've yet to see any instance of sealant "corrupting" the tape. Pull the tape extremely tight and if you are overlapping the tape, overlap it at least an inch. Run the tape to the outside of the rim, push it into the bead area and then trim to the outside of the rim. I recently installed a new tire and didn't realize I was nearly out of Stans. I had just enough to smear around the bead. It's working fine.
    I can buy only 5 cm wide Gorilla and the rim is 10. I put 4 layers: 2 strips on sides, 1 centered and again 2 and 1. Overlapping was 1 inch. And after one day the wheel started to leak around nipples. When I removed the tire, Gorilla was like wet paper. The tape itself was OK, but the glue looked like chewing gum. 8-(

    B & L (120 TPI) cannot be set without sealant as they loose the air through sides.

    But now the sides are sealed by sealant already, so I can try next week once again this "dry method".

    How many layers of Gorilla you put to the edges of rims? (Interesting for me is especially if you have Clown Shue and Bud and Lou 120 TPI.)

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    So it somewhat works as long as the psi is kept well above what most people run their tires at when riding on Snow?
    I have run them as low as 5 psi without any issues.

    Just wanted to update - Rode them at 3.5 psi this weekend and they held just fine.
    Last edited by bobkorn; 01-07-2014 at 11:27 AM.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    Without sealant, what is the point? You will still get flats from thorns and such, then you will have to install a tube to get home.
    Sorry Crash, I wasn't clear. Murphy said his was leaking around the "nipples". Assuming he was talking about his tubeless setup, my comment was that Gorilla tape shouldn't leak and therefore there shouldn't be any leaks from around the nipples. The possible leak areas should only be around the valve and the bead area.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Sorry Crash, I wasn't clear. Murphy said his was leaking around the "nipples". Assuming he was talking about his tubeless setup, my comment was that Gorilla tape shouldn't leak and therefore there shouldn't be any leaks from around the nipples. The possible leak areas should only be around the valve and the bead area.
    The problem is that Gorilla in US can be different from that in Czech. 8-(
    But if not, then it must leak around valve as I thing now. Because when the wheel was inflated, red rim tape was blown a bit from Gorilla. When I pressed on these red bubbles mur | 2013-12-28_Snehulak-tubeless ? rajce.net there was space. Around rim bead it looks tightened enough. I removed only foam layer, not the "Gorilla rim tape" (now it is again like this mur | 2013-12-28_Snehulak-tubeless ? rajce.net) and installed tubes again for this weekend in Alps. Next week I'll try original notubes valves, not home made. I still have enough of sealant to wet tire bead a bit and valve bottom.

    Which type of valve? I can buy this American classic tubeless ventilky, 2 kusy - ?ervený - kupkolo.cz which seams to have quite narrow bottom, or this CafféLatex tubeless ventilky, 2 kusy - kupkolo.cz but it is for two layer rims. So I have to add some spacers...

    Is there any trick how to seal the valve best to Gorilla?

  38. #338
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    Murphy, your tape job looks great. Two comments though: It appears you use soap and water either to get your tire on or to check for leaks. If you use your sealant around the bead, you will see when it seals and it will seal better. Second, I really like a tubeless schrader valve for how tough they are and how tight they can be sealed. But if you like presta (I'm not sure why anyone would), get the American Classic.

  39. #339
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    Uaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! 8-(((
    Still leaking around valve and nipples near it. And still have red bubbles that are not in touch with Gorilla...
    One possibility: I'm not able to tape the wheel the right way.
    Second: Tubeless valves have too narrow "collars".


    Split tube, or tubes! 8-(((

  40. #340
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    Murphy, I looked at your tape pictures again. Make sure there is no foam under/around the valve inside the rim. The valve should tighten directly on the taped rim with no foam under the tape in that area. You don't need to tape over the valve as you show in your picture. Tape the wheel, then put a hole through the tape for the valve. Personally, I think the tubeless schrader valves are the sturdiest and easiest to use.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Murphy, I looked at your tape pictures again. Make sure there is no foam under/around the valve inside the rim. The valve should tighten directly on the taped rim with no foam under the tape in that area. You don't need to tape over the valve as you show in your picture. Tape the wheel, then put a hole through the tape for the valve. Personally, I think the tubeless schrader valves are the sturdiest and easiest to use.
    I peeled off all foam + some Gorilla.
    So I have rim tape + 5cm Gorilla in the middle + 2x 5cm Gorilla on sides + 5cm Gorilla in the middle + 2x 5cm Gorilla on sides 5cm Gorilla in the middle.
    I used soldering iron to make the hole through Gorillas.
    I inserted tubeless valve (and glued it little with something like glue for patching tubes).
    I used a cotton stick to wet around valve "boot" with the sealant and also tire beads and then played a bit with fitting the tire (without any foam, just few layers of Gorilla as I already mentioned) and finally inflated it.

    Red rim strip in two windows on both sides of the valve were blown to bubbles, so it was separated from Gorilla. And (no surprise) it started to bubble around nipples and cutouts in rim - in the joint of rim and rim tape.

    It looks that I'm not able to fit valve into taped rim. 8-(
    Valve has rubber "boot", there is glue between valve and Gorilla, there is a sealant over this to be sure and ..... still... 8-(

    It's almost 4 AM here. I give it up for now, tomorrow I'll try split tube probably.

  42. #342
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    That's interesting. I also couldn't help but notice that what you are using is not what is Gorilla tape in America.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    That's interesting. I also couldn't help but notice that what you are using is not what is Gorilla tape in America.
    That is probably the problem. 8-(
    When I peeled off foam and some layers, it was almost the same feeling as if I peel protective foil from display. Almost the same tape in previous roll was problematic to peel off and the glue on it was more like chewing gum. OK, I'll try once again with another tape.
    You can see the difference in texture here mur | 2013-12-28_Snehulak-tubeless – rajce.net and these http://www.hasoft.cz/images/univerza...a-zesilena.jpg http://www.denbraven.cz/dokument-pro...ilni-paska.jpg ?
    It also looks like the reall Gorilla (last two links I hope) is more soft and plastically. But on first look they are the same. Do they look the right way?
    Is Gorilla the same as ducktape?

    Here - also two duck tapes from google from our .cz urls. http://shop.lepiky.cz/obrazky/749.jpeg http://www.safetyshop.cz/data/produc...6_8fhxwujy.gif

    But it took so much time that I can buy for lost time/money almost new Walmart fatty. 8-)


    Strange, some of shops name it DUCK TAPE, some DUCT TAPE... 8-)))

  44. #344
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Gorilla tape is the "big brother who shaves" of duct tape. It's physical strength is much greater than duct tape let along the adhesion factor.

    Side note. Duck tape is general use silver tape... True duct tape is rated for heat and is used to seal heating ducts.

    Good luck!


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  45. #345
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    Finally I found real Gorilla, but it is cca for the same price as helicopter tape from 3M (I tried to contact local 3M dealer.) - it means three time the duct from supermarket. And I have to order it over internet, it is not available nearby. 8-(
    So duct tape should be OK or not regarding particular manufacturer, Gorilla is for sure?

  46. #346
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    Murphy, the grey tape that you have pictured earlier is Duck/Duct tape. It is not even close to the strength and adhesion abilities of Gorilla tape. I didn't look back in the thread to see who suggested helicopter tape but I would rather use Gorilla tape. I have never seen any problems with sealant or air for that matter getting through Gorilla tape. Once your rim would be taped as nicely as you taped your rim in the pictures you provided with real Gorilla tape, your only possible leak areas would be around the bead. Maybe you should hook up with someone here in America to send you some Gorilla tape.

  47. #347
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    I have been tubeless for a few years with no problems till recently. We build a new groomed single track in our area which is very fast but has a ton of little ups and downs. Well now I am burping like crazy as well as everyone else that rides there, I am done with tubeless on the back for now anyways.

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    I have been tubeless for a few years with no problems till recently. We build a new groomed single track in our area which is very fast but has a ton of little ups and downs. Well now I am burping like crazy as well as everyone else that rides there , I am done with tubeless on the back for now anyways.
    Too much soda before the ride on the "ups and downs" will do that to ya


    Fat Biker

    P.S. Sorry couldn't resist LOL

  49. #349
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    Today I stoped for a while (one hour long lection) in local 3M dealer. They have several types of duct tape even those like Gorilla. I bought 3939 tape "heavy duty, strong hold, for tough jobs" and also 764I PVC tape with the same strong glue, but without canvas. Both 5 cm wide. My idea is to tape the middle of the rim over holes with duct to create a support for PVC one and then PVC (like tubeless rim strip) two on sides then one centrally again. This one is 100% airtight.

    I'm just hesitating if to enlarge valve hole in the rimstrip to alow my tape to stick directly to the rim or let it like it is now. This small improvement should imho do a lot of work - it will totally lock whole rim.


    If this will not help, I'll buy Gorilla over the net, but the guy in the shop seemed to know their product and he believes, it will work. The only difference is UV, but this is not my problem in this case.


    3M also has some tape 7.5 cm wide that could do the job of tape and foam in the same way, but it was three times more expensive than Gorilla (and here it is cca two times the price in US), so I had no will to experiment. 8-)

  50. #350
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    I ride with the best dogs.




  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy1976 View Post
    ...I'm just hesitating if to enlarge valve hole in the rimstrip to alow my tape to stick directly to the rim or let it like it is now. This small improvement should imho do a lot of work - it will totally lock whole rim.

    ...The only difference is UV, but this is not my problem in this case....
    I would eliminate the rim strip and just do tape.

    As far as the UV goes, it depends on how fast you intend on riding once tubeless. If you will be riding at the speed of light, you might need UV protection.

  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I would eliminate the rim strip and just do tape.

    As far as the UV goes, it depends on how fast you intend on riding once tubeless. If you will be riding at the speed of light, you might need UV protection.
    But I like my red rimstrip. 8-) I already cut wider hole.

    Eliminating rimstrip means search for other tape, pictures, ... or what I'll have in rim windows...

    Or I can just tape the rim with 3M and wait what will decorate my rims automatically during first ride. 8-)

  53. #353
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    Bam!

    Argh
    Got my BFL 's setup, then a set of B+L's came my way.

    I used gorilla tape with no foam and couldn't get them to seal.
    I was really getting frustrated so.....in a fit a anger

    Sprayed in some starting fluid, chucked in a match, and WHOOMFF!

    Man did it set up nicely . I did notice the tire was a little warm, but in my excitement thought nothing about it.

    Tried the Bud , no explosion, just a smoking fire inside the tire!

    Yikes, put it out with Stan's ... maybe I'll get me some foam ( or maybe use propane) next time..

    At least I got one tire done..
    Last edited by dtaylor; 01-15-2014 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Better post
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  54. #354
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    Murphy, certainly you can find tape with enough color for you. If I'm doing it, I make two wraps with the colored tape, tack it in place with very small pieces of tape, and then tape over it with the Gorilla tape.


  55. #355
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    Has anyone tried tubeless with the new Specialized 90mm rims and Ground Control tires yet? Any thing to watch for?

  56. #356
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    ^there are a couple of posts about it in the specialized forums. Appears the most common approach right now is just Gorilla Tape. Seems to be working.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Murphy, certainly you can find tape with enough color for you. If I'm doing it, I make two wraps with the colored tape, tack it in place with very small pieces of tape, and then tape over it with the Gorilla tape.

    Bastards! It's like in totality many years ago - in US they have everything... 8-)
    I found here only japan tapes made from rice paper! 8-)
    JAPONSKÉ LEPÍCÍ PÁSKY Z RÝ?OVÉHO PAPÍRU - LÉTO V PAPELOTE ZÁ?Í BARVAMI A NÁPADY | iluxurylife.cz

    And I can also order some special tape with anything I want printed on it, but I'm not sure I will need 100 rolls of it. 8-(

    OK, I'll have original red ones. I still like them as they harmonize with whole bike mur | 2014-01-02_Snowdoor-Saalbach ? rajce.net

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy1976 View Post
    But I like my red rimstrip. 8-) I already cut wider hole.

    Eliminating rimstrip means search for other tape, pictures, ... or what I'll have in rim windows...

    Or I can just tape the rim with 3M and wait what will decorate my rims automatically during first ride. 8-)
    You should have no issues taping over the original rimstrip. Just make sure the tape strips amply overlap each other and cover edge to edge and have good contact with the rim itself at the edges.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjdog800 View Post
    You should have no issues taping over the original rimstrip. Just make sure the tape strips amply overlap each other and cover edge to edge and have good contact with the rim itself at the edges.
    This is what I suspect to be an issue - the only non covered and sticked edge was the hole for the valve... I'll do some photos in the evening.

  60. #360
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    You are on track Murphy. It's not that taping over the rim strip is a problem in general, but as you are experiencing, the valve hole can be potential leak area. Also, the plastic rim strips that many use stretch at a different rate than the tape and it is a little ugly.
    Last edited by alphazz; 01-08-2014 at 11:48 AM.

  61. #361
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    Now I have this:

    Tubeless Tuesday.-dsc05201.jpg

    Rimtape with wider valve hole
    silver in the middle
    2x silver on sides
    silver in the middle

    Now I will use this on sides and then in the middle again:
    3M 764I YELL GEN PURP VINYL TAPE - Buck & Hickman
    I was said it is definitely airtight.

    And at the end I'll use silver to tape a bit of "mirelon" foam. (I have no compressor.)


    A while later:

    Tubeless Tuesday.-dsc05202.jpg

    The valve hole I punctured by solder.

    Beggars must not be choosers - this used tubeless valve I received as a gift in my favorite bike shop. 8-)

  62. #362
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    It's a Long Way to Tipperary .... Sorry, to tubeless. 8-(

    I inflated the wheel. It looks quite airtight even without sealant, no leaking around valve and nipples (tested by soap water), but:

    Tubeless Tuesday.-dsc05203%5B1%5D.jpg

    Tubeless Tuesday.-dsc05204%5B1%5D.jpg

    Why are there these bubbles? And even more - it looks each has it's own source of inflating air as they aren't of the same size! Red rimtape is blown out from silver tape. Could anybody say, where the air found it's way between rimstrip and the tape? Why it is not leaking around nipples in that case?

    Taping looks like that:
    Tubeless Tuesday.-tapelayers.jpg


  63. #363
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    You have a leak through the tape to the inside of the rim tape.

    Ive had a wheel leak into clear tape i had, i could see the air gap between the foam and clear strip... it lasted till i changed the tyres without causing me any issue.

    It looked a bit different as the front wheel had a flat profile and the rear had mega bubbles. Depending on your rim strip strength it could pop.
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  64. #364
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    So you think the air leaks THROUGH the tape, or BETWEEN layers?

    I put there an inner tube and inflated for few minutes. May be it was too short... In that case I'll try to leave inner tube inside for hour or two on 15 PSI.

    Popping is just what I'm worrying about. Rim strip is original Surly. 8-(


    (Till changing tires? Why? What was different? Thicker tire bead or so?)

  65. #365
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    Just changing tyres from worn ones to new ones... nothing technical. I then retaped the bubbling wheel.

    My guess is that it is getting under the tape at the rim bead, hard to diagnose without seeing but its basically a retape job unless its escaping past your tubeless valve. I use either the round rubber valves or recently American Classic valves with the "O" ring on the sealing surface.
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  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy1976 View Post
    It's a Long Way to Tipperary .... Sorry, to tubeless. 8-(

    I inflated the wheel. It looks quite airtight even without sealant, no leaking around valve and nipples (tested by soap water), but:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why are there these bubbles? And even more - it looks each has it's own source of inflating air as they aren't of the same size! Red rimtape is blown out from silver tape. Could anybody say, where the air found it's way between rimstrip and the tape? Why it is not leaking around nipples in that case?

    Taping looks like that:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Murphy1976 Don't know if your taping diagram is "correct" as you only have the tape in the bottom of the rim ?

    Might I suggest that you extend the tape "up" the inside of the rim so the bead of the tyre forms an air tight seal against the tape and NOT the rim .
    If the tyre is not making a good seal AGAINST the tape then there is a good chance that this is where the air is bleeding under the tape
    causing your bubbling decorative rim strip .

    It needs to be something like this -



    Tubeless Tuesday.-tubelesstaping.jpg


    Hope this helps ?

    Otherwise I would look at trying to source something wider to completely cover your rim .

    Some have even used "saran wrap" / "cling film" (the clear stretchy plastic food preservation covering)

    It needs to go around the rim approximately 10-15 times but it is extremely light so the weight penalty is minimal .


    Good luck




    Fat Biker

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    My guess is that it is getting under the tape at the rim bead, hard to diagnose without seeing but its basically a retape job unless its escaping past your tubeless valve. I use either the round rubber valves or recently American Classic valves with the "O" ring on the sealing surface.
    I have found that the valve nut needs to be EXTREMELY tight on the rim when going tubeless to prevent leaks .

    Even having recourse to Vice Grips or pliers


    Fat Biker

  68. #368
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    Also be careful if you get AC valves. They are very blingy and look the dogs bollox but they are alu and snap easily if you get a bit rough with a pump.

    I have never broken one but going on reviews it seems some are. Might extend this to vice grip tightening the AC's too
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  69. #369
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    Murphy1976 Have you seen this ?
    They post to Czech republic . It is expensive .
    But it may save you a lot of stress and heartache .

    http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=151158285759

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  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Just changing tyres from worn ones to new ones... nothing technical. I then retaped the bubbling wheel.

    My guess is that it is getting under the tape at the rim bead, hard to diagnose without seeing but its basically a retape job unless its escaping past your tubeless valve. I use either the round rubber valves or recently American Classic valves with the "O" ring on the sealing surface.
    Valve is imho OK, as these bubbles are also on other side of rim and on the way from valve there are also cutouts without bubbles... At least hope so. And concerning bead - you see on the picture. It does not look this will be a problem. But I'll check.

  71. #371
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    Are you saying the AC valves might not stand upto "air ratcheting" either ?

    Fat Biker

  72. #372
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    Hmmm... you could be the tester of that one then let us know how long they lasted (in seconds)

    I think all the issues with these come from using a hand pump with a fixed head.
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  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Murphy1976 Don't know if your taping diagram is "correct" as you only have the tape in the bottom of the rim ?

    Might I suggest that you extend the tape "up" the inside of the rim so the bead of the tyre forms an air tight seal against the tape and NOT the rim .
    If the tyre is not making a good seal AGAINST the tape then there is a good chance that this is where the air is bleeding under the tape
    causing your bubbling decorative rim strip .

    It needs to be something like this -



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tubelesstaping.jpg 
Views:	146 
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    Hope this helps ?

    Otherwise I would look at trying to source something wider to completely cover your rim .

    Some have even used "saran wrap" / "cling film" (the clear stretchy plastic food preservation covering)

    It needs to go around the rim approximately 10-15 times but it is extremely light so the weight penalty is minimal .


    Good luck




    Fat Biker
    I have "a bit" of tape on sides. May be not enough high? That could be the problem. Also the tape might crumple a bit... I'll add one ply of red tape on each side OVER rim edge.

    ThanX for this remark.
    And also for nice picture of black sperms.

  74. #374
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    LOL it takes a "special eye" to see that ; D


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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy1976 View Post
    ... Also the tape might crumple a bit...
    The tape should be pulled tight and flat with NO "crumples". Crumples are an easy path for air and sealant to leak out/through/under.

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjdog800 View Post
    The tape should be pulled tight and flat with NO "crumples". Crumples are an easy path for air and sealant to leak out/through/under.
    I meant accidentally - during installation or fitting the tire on the rim. After taping there were no crumples at all.

  77. #377
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    As Fat Biker mentioned, taping to the outside of the rim eliminates any possibility of air getting past the tape at the bead. I always do this and I think it works great. Using a 2" wide tape and pulling it very tight, leaving about 1/2" to the outside of the rim. I then use something round and smooth to push the tape into the bead area before trimming the tape on the outside of the rim. The tire will pull the tape in a little when it seats.
    Mine look like this when they are ready for a tire.

  78. #378
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    After multiple attempts, I finally was able to convert a Bud & Nate on Rolling Daryls using only tape.

    The trick for me was extending the tape up the sidewall similar to that shown in Fat Biker's diagram and Alphazz's photo. But in my case I took it a bit further and pulled the tape up & over the sidewall, then trimmed off the excess tape with an exact knife so that the tape actually covers the bead hook as well. I pressed the tape down flat with a tire iron and inflated the tire with a tube to seat everything.

    I have 6 rides and have had zero burps or fluid leaks thus far and am pleased with the results.
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  79. #379
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    Re: Tubeless Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Even having recourse to Vice Grips or pliers
    I got caught out in the trail one time with a vice grip tightened stem that I couldn't get off after a sidewall tear. Luckily someone came along who had pliers. If you need to go that tight, just make sure you have something with you to remove it out you need to revert to a tube.

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  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I got caught out in the trail one time with a vice grip tightened stem that I couldn't get off after a sidewall tear. Luckily someone came along who had pliers. If you need to go that tight, just make sure you have something with you to remove it out you need to revert to a tube.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

    LOL

    I AM "that" guy that has the pliers and the spare tube , and the spoke key and the . . . . . . well you get the picture .

    Been biking too many years and got caught out too many times with different problems to not have the tool to fix it .

    I think the learning curve that educates you to carry the tool to get you out of a jam , starts sometime after the third mile of hiking back to the trailhead



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  81. #381
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    I am that guy too, I probably have repaired other people's bikes at a 2:1 ratio compared to my own repairs. I didn't adjust my tool kit based on my taped rim. Another plus for split tube in my eyes.

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  82. #382
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    I still can't get past burping

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    I still can't get past burping
    If you haven't done it, maybe extend the tape up & over the bead like I did, then cut off the excess with a knife. My setup has been flawless since doing this.
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  84. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    If you haven't done it, maybe extend the tape up & over the bead like I did, then cut off the excess with a knife. My setup has been flawless since doing this.
    Might try that or ghetto, I kinda think it's Lou on a Clownshoe with low pressure and an occasional jump that's causing the problem though.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    As Fat Biker mentioned, taping to the outside of the rim eliminates any possibility of air getting past the tape at the bead. I always do this and I think it works great. Using a 2" wide tape and pulling it very tight, leaving about 1/2" to the outside of the rim. I then use something round and smooth to push the tape into the bead area before trimming the tape on the outside of the rim. The tire will pull the tape in a little when it seats.
    Mine look like this when they are ready for a tire.

    I did the same with red plastic tape, without any flattening of the tape after I just put tire with tube on and inflated to cca 17 PSI. Now it stands for 3 hours, so I hope it is done and prepared to be inflated as notube... If not and if I'll be long time offline, then I'm probably hanging on some tape on my bikestand...

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    It looks really better!
    Without any foam - just tape. And ONLY floor pump, no compressor! 8-)))
    But I'm not sure if it is not only temporary as I still have some air between rimstrip and first layer of the tape. But it could be only residue from last attempts. At least I hope so.
    I'll keep only one wheel for now and if it will make it through next weekend biking (if we'll have snow finally), I'll do secon one also.

    So far without sealant:

    Tubeless Tuesday.-dsc05205.jpg

    ThanX to all for now. Not having You ... 8-)


    Still under pressure. It lost From cca 17 to cca 10 PSI during night through tirebead. Without sealant it looks great it can hold 10 PSI. 8-)
    Last edited by Murphy1976; 01-10-2014 at 12:48 AM.

  86. #386
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    Fingers crossed . Good luck buddy


    Fat Biker

  87. #387
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    Any views on what the least amount of sealant you should use is?
    --Peace

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Any views on what the least amount of sealant you should use is?
    Depends on the purpose of the sealant. If it's to seal up leaks around the bead, one could just smear Stans around the bead and call it good. If it's to prevent flats from punctures or cuts, then I would say a couple of ounces after the tire is sealed.

  89. #389
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    Yeah^ a couple of scoops works beautifully, then just keep an eye on it over time and top up as necessary.

    You can "dip" your wheels to check stans level by letting the wheel settle with the valve at the bottom, remove core and use a thin wooden stick to go down inside the core, if you pinch the tyre slightly to make the fluid pool this will let you see if you still have some sealant in there to seal a hole when you need it.... then just top up using a syringe when needed.

    I have just about worn out my rear Bud, Is that a first ? So the set have been ridden 3000km+ with only spiking the rear once with a stick and it sealed, never a flat in either the front or rear.

    It will now be put away and kept for the Simpson Desert race later in the year.
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  90. #390
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    ...I have just about worn out my rear Bud, Is that a first ?...
    Nope.

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Nope.
    Well that's a good thing, never heard of anyone wearing a Bud or Lou out before.... My HuDu's didn't even last half that. Got the UL freshies waiting on carbon rims.
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  92. #392
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by easterntide View Post
    correct. all i did was do three layers of gorilla tape (left/right/center), melt the valve hole out w a soldering iron and put air in w a compressor. providing that seals up ok i then take out the valve core and huck some stans in and shake.
    so far its worked flawlessly on 3 efforts on rolling darryls W/O cutouts.
    I did the same on mine with the cut outs and left the rim strips.

    Applied 3 layers of gorilla tape over the rim strip.

    Wiped the non drive rim bead with Stan's.

    Put a tube in set the beads.

    Deflated the tube & remove Trying not to break the bead on the non drive side.

    Break the non drive side free

    Install Stan's valve stem / core removed

    Wipe drive side bead with Stan's. Set 80% of the bead, put in 4 cups of Stan's.

    Lay it down on the drive side and hit it with air from my small compressor.

    Spin it a few times and mount it on the bike and go ride.

    Completed in 30 minutes.

    100 miles later @ 5psi. No problems
    Last edited by Way2ManyBikes; 01-12-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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  93. #393
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    Great. I tested my tubeless setup unexpectedly. Yesterday I got a call - do You wanna ride a race? I said yes. 8-)
    This race is Jizerska 50 - official long reach race for XC skis, but this year is almost nothing to ride on.
    We started in three on fatbikes very quickly, not to have troubles with few xc skiers, but then we have not seen anybody else. We did it in 3 hours 22 minutes.
    2014-01-12-Jizerska_50 - Bikemap - Your bike routes online
    See the galery: Na trať zrušené Jizerské 50 se vydalo několik stovek nadšenců - iDNES.cz (I have red/white Duratec.)

    EDIT:
    Tubeless Tuesday.-murphy-tosa.jpg

  94. #394
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    I converted my BFL's to tubeless this weekend. The Gorilla tape was smoothly stretched so it would cover the vertical part of the bead rim but not over the lip: no wrinkles allowed!
    I set the bead with the tubes in, then broke on bead on one side, removed the tube and inserted the valve.
    With no valve core and teflon tape my car tire inflator was insufficient. I used a rope to squeeze constrict the tire resulted in wrinkled tire but was able to set the bead with lots of pushing and manipulation.
    The rear I gave up on and went to the bike shop and got it set with some of the tire massaging .
    But I'm much happier to be tube free now!
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  95. #395
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    I used no foam and only floor pump.
    Also I skipped any lubrication. So I grasped the tire in the middle of sidewall and pulled it to the rim edge each 5 cm. As there was no lube, the friction was enough to keep the tire on the rim cca 1 cm from bead. In this situation, floor pump was enough.
    After inflation an setting the bead, i just deflated and bent the tire to one side and then to other, to be able to drip the sealant around bead.

  96. #396
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Has anyone tried the new gorilla tape clear repair yet ?




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  97. #397
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    While the clear tape might work, I don't like the slick tapes for the entire process. I don't think slick is what is wanted in the bead area.

  98. #398
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    Looking to convert my stock mukluk to tubeless. Will be using my stock RD's and 27tpi Nates and going with the method outlined in the vimeo video a few pages back. Anything I should lookout for? 3" gorilla tape, stans valve stems and sealant, anything else? Also what are they using to remove the valve stem during installation?
    Thanks
    E.P.
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  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECU-Yukon View Post
    Also what are they using to remove the valve stem during installation?
    Pointy nosed pliers... or any pliers that are handy will do.

    In the scheme of things to come, that's the least of your worries
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  100. #400
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    Just got my Hudus on Darryls set up. The back is still in question but none of the project would have been possible without the feedback from this thread. Thanks to all the people who knew what they doing.

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