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  1. #201
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    ^right- I get that. I absolutely HAD to use foam to fill in the deep center channel of the Holy Rolling Daryl's, but I was saying that I don't think he'd have to get different foam if using a split tube, because no sealant (thus, no ammonia) should ever reach the foam.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Not sure why you'd still need a different foam if you're doing split tube.
    The foam I used was too thick, stiff and 3-dimmensional, I need something easier to work with, whether I stick with tape or go to split tube.
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  3. #203
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    Gotcha- I thought it was the ammonia issue. If you have a Home Depot near by, I highly recommend that pink foam- as I posted on the previous page, I did one layer with it folded in half and then one regular layer over it, trimming the edges before the bead socket and then the split tube. On my other wheel, I did the exact same thing, but with Gorilla Tape and it worked. Eventually, I want to re-do that one using the blue tape, and if that doesn't work, the split tube.

    Good luck!
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    ...The deal breaker is that the sealant is leaking around the valve stem....Another issue is that this foam is too thick and 3-dimensional. Its a pain to install an the tire gets REALLY tight, its hard to fit it on. So maybe this could work if I could find another source of material to fill in the middle of the rim, but other than that I'm dead in the water.

    Last issue is that the tape seems kind of flimsy on the bead hook, and though I think it would work for a few tires installs, I'm thinking of having 2 sets of tires this winter, and I'm guessing that swapping back and forth would create damage that would require re-taping more often than I would like.

    What do people have for suggestions for space fillers that don't dissolve in ammonia? I'm going to need something other than the foam I'm using, even if I go to split tube.
    Fishman, I have a couple of ideas. One, if you continue with your foam in the middle, it doesn't have to be right up to the valve hole. Leave it back a ways so that the valve stem is tightening right on the tape and rim.

    Second, if you don't like the tire being so tight and hard to get on, try just foam on the edges, allowing the tape to slope downward and making contact with the rim in the middle.

    Third, I've changed tires numerous times without any issues using Gorilla tape.

    Fourth, I completely cover the foam and have never had any issues with the super firm foam from Ace.

  5. #205
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    ...And after pinch flatting my rear (tubed) tire at the bottom of Aspen Trail last night I'll be getting around to that conversion sooner rather than later.

  6. #206
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    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN
    I put my wife's NATE's tubeless split tube on Clownshoes easy. They we're loose without the split tube.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Tried G-tape and split tube on my Nates tonight...after over an hour no luck. The Nate is pretty sloppy on my RD. Out of curiosity I tried my hudu split tube....BOOM. Easy peasy.

    I REALLY want tubeless nates this winter. D@MN
    Did you use some sort of foam?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Did you use some sort of foam?
    I didn't use any foam. Wrapped the rim in g-tape, popped a tube in and seated beads, pulled tube out, wrapped tire with rope, tons of gap. I might try to find some foam, but I am thinking my Nates are just TOO loose. I have a buddy who has the 120tpi Nates that might let me use them to experiment.

  10. #210
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    I am thinking I would need to add another 1/4" of foam all the way out to the edge of the rim to take up that much gap. I don't mind ghetto werks, just getting a little carried away with that much foam imho.

  11. #211
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    Use the 'BOOM' for the nates too!

  12. #212
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    Maybe that's it. My wife's Nates are 120 tpi.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I am thinking I would need to add another 1/4" of foam all the way out to the edge of the rim to take up that much gap. I don't mind ghetto werks, just getting a little carried away with that much foam imho.
    jons, I use a self adhesive super firm foam that is easy. I put in on before the tape and I let the tape run well past the outside of the rim. I run a smooth tool around the bead pushing the tape in the bead area and then trim the extra tape on the outside of the rim. It tightens things up a bunch. Just a thought.

  14. #214
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    IT WORKED!!

    Drilled Rolling Darryls
    Surly Bud
    Surly Nate 27tpi
    Packing Foam
    Gorilla Tape
    Sam Adams Boston Lager.

    I used some packing foam from work (fairly thick white foam that we use at work for packing stuff to ship, it comes on a large roll).

    I cut it to 6" wide, folded it over on itself once (making it 3" wide), taped it to the wheel (I left my Surly rim strip in place) and stretched it around the wheel and taped the other end down.

    I then ran a single layer of Gorilla tape over the foam (ran it tight to the inside of the wheel) applying a fair amount of pressure to compress the foam a bit.

    I then put the split tube in place, removed the valve, and aired the tires up with my floor pump. Pumped them up to 30psi to seat the bead, and left them aired up for 15min. Then deflated and poured a little over 3 scoops of Stans in, the inflated to 30 psi to drive the Stans in deep.

  15. #215
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    +1 What's the story with ride quality and tire swap-ability?
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    OK my sole interest in this is the ride quality claims. Is it that big an improvement where you would pursue tubeless for that reason alone?
    Don't care about or have issues with flats
    Don't care about weight

    I do swap tires frequently so the popular methods just don't appeal to me. Before I try to scheme my own method has anyone had any luck bonding a split tube to the tire permanently?
    Check out exp18 posting history. He has been through the split tube bonding thing and now is on saran wrap.

  17. #217
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    If we can find a glue that would really bond the tube to tire we are in business.

  18. #218
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    Did anyone try contact cement? I think that stuff would be airtight if you mounted it on the rim before it was dry.

  19. #219
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    I'm new to tubeless on Surly rims but been running Umas for a couple of years this way. Wonder if this would work? I was thinking I might have to run a narrow strip of Stans tape around one side just due to the valley using up to much of the wide tape. Thoughts?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_119395996101883.jpeg  

    Last edited by bdundee; 10-26-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  20. #220
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    When I have bud mounted with a tube on my 9ZERO7 fork I had 5-6mm clearance on each side. Mounted split tube I had to trim a few mm off each side of bud.

    I would guess tubeless adds 10-15mm to width.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    I keep thinking about 3M windo-weld. Same stuff that holds the windshield in your car. Crazy strong.

    This morning I dug out an old BMX tire/tube to test on but it's pretty oxidized. I'm going to have to find a way to clean up the bond areas to get a good test. I just want to clean it up inside the tire, run a bead of urethane around the inside, stick the tube in then see if I can pull the tube out after it sets up

    Something about all this just doesn't feel right. I can't believe I'm the first person interested in having the split tube come off with the tire. Probably a lot harder than it seems.
    If your the first I am the second. I think this would be the best thing for fat tubeless. Maybe one of the tube or tire companies would have some information on rubber bonding.

  22. #222
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Someone posted a while ago that he rubber cemented the tire and tube together. I thought about it but was concerned about getting the bead seated correctly each time.
    Do some digging and I'm sure you'll find the posts.

  23. #223
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    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Someone posted a while ago that he rubber cemented the tire and tube together. I thought about it but was concerned about getting the bead seated correctly each time.
    Do some digging and I'm sure you'll find the posts.
    It was exp18. Maybe he will chime in with more detail.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?
    For me the tape and or foam is all too much work and when I tried the tape on BFL's I'd did not work. I have done the split tube with perfect results. It's just messy to change tires. Split tube is where it's at for me.

  26. #226
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    exp18 did some work with this last year in post 2 of this thread...
    tubeless fatbike made easy

  27. #227
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    I read through exp18's earlier post on this. Now I have another project!!!

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    If we can find a glue that would really bond the tube to tire we are in business.
    Glues to consider:
    • Rubber cement vs vulcanizing glue - There is confusion on the wording of these products. The rubber cement sold for $1.99 by Elmers et. al. is not meant for permanent bonding. Slime makes a product called "rubber cement" ($4.99) that may be as good as the vulcanizing stuff tire stores use.
    • Urethane glue - Check the roofing dept of your local bld improvement outlet. They sell a urethane glue meant for roof patching.
    • Shoe goo - pretty strong stuff
    • Clear silicone caulk - not a very strong bond but will fill gaps well.

    Choice 2
    Glue the split tube on the inside or outside? Either way turns out to be difficult to remove the tire tube assemby without damage.
    Lots of people have been successful at various tubeless setups but swapping tires frequently is still a big mess and giant PITA, the whole idea exp18 is working on is to make the complete assembly easy to change tires.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Am I missing something, why is the tube needed if tape will work? Or isn't there proven tape that works? Or maybe I should just search harder?
    I am just a noob to he tubeless game, but my experience is this.
    1) Tape only, no foam =Not a snowballs chance in hell.
    2) Rimstrip, foam & tape = It may have worked with a compressor, but not a chance for me with a floor pump.
    3) Rimstrip, foam & tape w/ split tube= Worked well for me with floor pump.

    I am going to ride the setup today and make sure it works. But I chased my son around the yard yesterday with no issue.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I am just a noob to he tubeless game, but my experience is this.
    1) Tape only, no foam =Not a snowballs chance in hell.
    2) Rimstrip, foam & tape = It may have worked with a compressor, but not a chance for me with a floor pump.
    3) Rimstrip, foam & tape w/ split tube= Worked well for me with floor pump.

    I am going to ride the setup today and make sure it works. But I chased my son around the yard yesterday with no issue.
    I set a bFL on a CS up last night with just a Surly rim strip just to see if I could get it to seat and no problem. The Bfl did fit fairly tight and it even held air for a few minutes.

    I think I am going to go this route after I get the CS a little lighter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_119395996101883.jpeg  


  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    my understanding is that rubber cement only removes oxidation so an uncured rubber patch can stick
    Vulcanizing is the term the tire industry uses to refer to the process of laminating the tire tread to the tire carcass. Perhaps you have seen "retread" strips laying on the highway - it is not 100%.
    The term has been bastardized for things like RTV silicone - room temperature vulcanizing, that certainly would not hold tread on a tire casing. The main difficulty in the tubeless process is not getting anything to stick and work, but to be able to remove and replace the whole tire/split/tube without damage. I've used the window weld stuff on a window. It is indeed sticky - so much so, that if you screw up it means scraping it all off and starting over. I am certain it will stick, I just don't see that it solves the tire change problem.

  32. #232
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    I think I am going to go this route after I get the CS a little lighter.
    What are you going to be doing to accomplish this?

    I realize that there isn't a tire that works for every circumstance and I change a tire now and then. It sounds like some of you change tires a lot, how often are some of you changing tires and for what purpose?

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    What are you going to be doing to accomplish this?
    What make the CS lighter? If so I will reveal when done (insert evil laugh here)

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    we both see the problem the same

    What I'm thinking of is a normal split tube tubeless set up to start with.

    Then I want to run a bead of urethane around the outside between the split tube and the tire before trimming the excess split tube off. The urethane would hold the split tube in place when I change the tire making the tire, sealant and split tube a single component. I would have to leave out a small section of the urethane bead as a breach for booger retrieval and sealant changes
    This is exactly where I want to go with this. This will be one of my next projects right after I finish my fat trailer I am working on now. I have my new bike now but I will hold off going tubeless until I explore the available bonding agents more closely.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    ... I do not anticipate problems removing the assembly. May find out differently
    I didn't anticipate getting a divorce...

    So, if you look thru exp18's trials he moved on to gluing the split tube inside the tire, and he is beyond that now. YMMV

    I await your trial with anticipation. Report back your success or lack thereof.

  36. #236
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Apologies I'd i didn't see earlier in this thread but has anybody tried gluing the split tube to the inside of the rim?

  37. #237
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    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.
    Thanks man! I appreciate the positive feedback!

  39. #239
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    First ride on split tube RD/Nate/Bud. I will say that I "feel" like it was faster than w/ tubes. I ran the same 10psi in the Nate as w/ tubes, and the Nate felt a lot softer. Bud was @ 7psi, and man-o-man does that bad boy STICK!

    275lbs w/o gear hit some rocks/roots/and a couple 2ft jumps and (knock on wood) all is well.

  40. #240
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    I have been running ghetto tubeless on my 29er for a long time, I have tried split tube and gorilla tape. In my experience split tube is easier and more likely to last. I understand the desire to be able to change tires easily, I dread getting sidewall tears in the woods (rocky terrain around here so it happens), putting a tube in a tubeless set up in the woods is always a hassle.

    All that to say, I have some experience with tubeless. I guess if I was looking to make a tubeless easily changeable it seems like the best way to do it would be to lay the split tube inside the tire, so when you're using a tire lever its not coming in contact with the tube. Getting an airtight seal would probably be difficult. I was thinking if you could get the tire inflated the pressure would make that a good connection, but you'd have to find the right glue that would both hold the tube in place while you aired it up and was not completely dry so that the pressure would seal it.

    I'm going to try this soon, I think contact cement is the way to go, but until I try it, its just a guess.

    The one negative to this kind of set up is that if you do blow out a sidewall and need to put a tube in, you'd have to cut the glued in tube out trailside, that would be painful.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    The one negative to this kind of set up is that if you do blow out a sidewall and need to put a tube in, you'd have to cut the glued in tube out trailside, that would be painful.
    It seems the most common way to end up putting a tube in your tubeless setup is spiking it with a stick. Regardless it will result in a tube being fitted, ive been lucky with spiking my buds twice and it sealed again, HuDu's twice also and not so lucky.
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  42. #242
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    Around here its cutting the sidewall on a sharp rock, Stans can't seal that kind of rip.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    as often as needed. more importantly, too often to make tubeless appealing

    nokians and hookworms for skinnys, larry for trail, BFL for snow. black floyd for hardpack and stone path
    This is exactly why I am apprehensive in selling my Pugsley. Even though my Moonlander is my preferred fatbike, it's nice to leave the Pug set up for more trail/hard pack-oriented conditions, and save the more expensive Moonie tires for deep snow conditions.

  44. #244
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    Hi, can someone please advise me on what to use as rim tape for a LM drilled rims.
    Currently I am using a 24 inch tube and it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Cheers

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by saron View Post
    Hi, can someone please advise me on what to use as rim tape for a LM drilled rims.
    Currently I am using a 24 inch tube and it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Cheers
    Use a purpose made "rim-strip" from Surly or one of many colored "duct tape" or Gorilla Tape. You do need to have the holes covered before laying on the split tube.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by saron View Post
    ...it looks like ping pong balls popping out of rim.
    Do the Gorilla tape, it's tougher than the rim strips.

  47. #247
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    For those that have done the split tube thing - what size tube are you using? I grabbed a 24" tube off the shelf at the local hardware store (I know!) without really looking at anything besides the 24" part. I got it home and its 1 3/8", that is not nearly wide enough to cover even a 80mm rim. I don't recall there being another size on the shelf, maybe I need to order tubes.

  48. #248
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    If you read through the thread, all of the info you need is there.

    You won't find the tubes you're looking for at the hardware store.

    QTubes 24x2.4-2.75 are the biggest I've found with a presta valve. Often have to special order through your LBS unless you have a place that does a lot of fat bike stuff, then they might keep stock.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  49. #249
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    Thanks, I've been following the thread, neglected to go back through and see if it was in there.

  50. #250
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    Almost 200 miles later, and still no burps or loss of air. Excellent traction & ride quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    I'm sick today, so I thought that playing around with tubeless attempts on my BFLs & Clownshoes would be a good way to spend the morning. I had packing tape, 3m, Stan's Tape, & foam, & Gorilla tape on hand, but cujarrett's Gorilla tape over the rim strip did the trick.

    Tubeless Fatbike Conversion | Cycles In Life

    I used two strips of 4" Gorilla tape, each pulled tight toward the bead of the rim, and overlapping in the middle. The use of a tube for popping in one bead was critical, as was removing the valve core to allow my cheapo 90 psi compressor to work. The first tire popped into place right away after I installed the tubeless valve. The second tire took a little more pulling the bead to the outside before it finally popped into place.

    Neither tire has lost any air over the last few hours, and I hope to feel well enough to test them out tomorrow afternoon.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    If you read through the thread, all of the info you need is there.

    You won't find the tubes you're looking for at the hardware store.

    QTubes 24x2.4-2.75 are the biggest I've found with a presta valve. Often have to special order through your LBS unless you have a place that does a lot of fat bike stuff, then they might keep stock.
    Niagara Cycle Works in Buffalo NY always has them.

    Edit: Sorry, Bicycle Replacement Parts | Road Bicylce Parts | Bicycle Repair Parts - Niagara Cycle

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    Almost 200 miles later, and still no burps or loss of air. Excellent traction & ride quality.
    Way to go John. I see the cooler temps and howling winds haven't slowed you down much (you are tougher than me). If you aren't using foam, you should try using a tight strap around the tire. I have pretty good success with that.

    You have been turning around too soon though, you should come on up into the snow and air those tubeless monsters down. I had a lady thank me yesterday for my nicely packed trail.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    For those that have done the split tube thing - what size tube are you using?
    Schwalbe AV10D is wide enough for Clown Shoes.

    They come with Schrader valves, but I didn't mind drilling the valve hole on the rim. Even if I install something with a presta valve, the immediate surroundings of the valve are thicker anyways and the pressures we use are low, so it won't be an issue.

  54. #254
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    What about using a spray on rubber coating instead of a split tube?

  55. #255
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    I dove into the world of tubless yesterday and hit a bit of a snag. I am using the Stan's yellow tape and sealant with a Rolling Darryl and Escalators. All went well when I taped up the front wheel. I did cut the tape in half length wise because it was for 90mm rims and mine are narrower but I don'tthink that had anything to do with my problem. I pulled reasonably hard on the tape as I wrapped it over the bead sjelf so there wouldn't be any wrinkles there. When I taped up the second wheel the tape came out 9" short. Are you really supposed to stretch the crap out of the tape? Or did I just get a short roll maybe. It seems like $40 should do more than 1 wheel. The good news is the other tire aired up real easy today. We'll see what it looks like in the morning.
    Latitude 61

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I dove into the world of tubless yesterday and hit a bit of a snag. I am using the Stan's yellow tape and sealant with a Rolling Darryl and Escalators. All went well when I taped up the front wheel. I did cut the tape in half length wise because it was for 90mm rims and mine are narrower but I don'tthink that had anything to do with my problem. I pulled reasonably hard on the tape as I wrapped it over the bead sjelf so there wouldn't be any wrinkles there. When I taped up the second wheel the tape came out 9" short. Are you really supposed to stretch the crap out of the tape? Or did I just get a short roll maybe. It seems like $40 should do more than 1 wheel. The good news is the other tire aired up real easy today. We'll see what it looks like in the morning.
    I believe you are supposed to get 5 rims out of 1 roll and that's without stretching the crap out of it. I would give Speedway a call tomorrow. I have a roll that I've done 2 rims and still have a bunch left.

  57. #257
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    Maybe I am missing something??

    I decided to convert to tubeless on my Krampus (running rabbit hole rims with 29 x 3" Knard tyres (27 tpi)) and it took me about 15 minutes to convert both wheels!!

    Remove tyre, insert 26" tube (just left the standard liner in place), cut tube, tyre on, 4 x scoops of Stans, inflate with cheap arse compressor (I never use soap suds, just stretch the tyre and push it into the beads in the vicinity of the valve and eventually it gets enough back pressure to form the initial seal). Inflated to about 25 psi and then shook the wheel around to make sure that all of the beads got a good coating of goop!!

    This was about 3 months ago and I have not had any flats or any burping issues since (last week I rode my Krampus in the Cape to Cape MTB race in Margaret River, Western Australia which was a total of about 210 km over 4 days without any problems).

    So why is the foam and tape required? The only thing I can think of is that it is because of the lower pressures that you are running on a "real" fat bike as opposed to the 18 psi or so that I am running on the Krampus??

    Cheers,

    Gags

  58. #258
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    Apples to oranges man, that is a lot smaller tire you are trying to seat.

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gags View Post
    So why is the foam and tape required?
    The foam helps tighten the seal with the beads for seating. More of an issue with wider rim and tire.

    Beyond that, I'm with you. My experience has been identical, both 29x3 and 26x4/5. Set it up, and ride it. Low pressure too, 2 to 3 PSI, I just don't see the slipping that begs for more bead security.

    Why we're chanting incantations, glueing, RTV sealing, searching the ends of the earth for lord only knows what, I have no idea.

    Pretty impressive thread for what amounts to something I've now done dozens of times, with equal success for all, simply with a split tube, and maybe some foam, or mini bubble wrap to tighten the seal on some, but many have gone with just the tube......

    Hey, I guess humans seek to improve endlessly, must be the deal here as well.
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  60. #260
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    Wait till you see the fat trailer I'm working on! Why? Because I can!

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    The foam helps tighten the seal with the beads for seating. More of an issue with wider rim and tire.



    Pretty impressive thread for what amounts to something I've now done dozens of times, with equal success for all, simply with a split tube, and maybe some foam, or mini bubble wrap to tighten the seal on some, but many have gone with just the tube......

    Hey, I guess humans seek to improve endlessly, must be the deal here as well.
    Are you using your shop air to seat the beads?

    Edit: I never had a problem till I tried Lou on a CS got it but it was a lot harder than a bfl, point is every tire and rim combo can be different.

  62. #262
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    Pinched my sidewall on a rock hidden below the snow last night. It was 15 degrees F, and the rear went totally flat. After a few minutes of laying the bike on it's side, and watching Stan's trickle out it sealed. Still holding air this morning after another 30 miles of riding.

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    If we didn't have people seeing/trying different things we wouldn't have bunch of fat bikes running around with lefties would we...
    Very true indeed.

    I just question the relentless fidgeting with what seems to be a very stable easy to use couple of system that already seem to have good track records.

    If everyone were burping, having tires slip, seeing air retention issues, etc, sure, tweak away. Or buy some Uma's and fuggedaboudit

    Someone beat you to the fat trailer g, sorry.....

    Quirings latest toy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-p1100812-600x400.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    Pinched my sidewall on a rock hidden below the snow last night. It was 15 degrees F, and the rear went totally flat. After a few minutes of laying the bike on it's side, and watching Stan's trickle out it sealed. Still holding air this morning after another 30 miles of riding.
    Interesting John, I hit my rim all the time and have never had an issue. I hope you get up there and pack the trails today for me.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Interesting John, I hit my rim all the time and have never had an issue. I hope you get up there and pack the trails today for me.
    I'm limited to east of town today, but there is still plenty of packing to be done there.

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Very true indeed.

    I just question the relentless fidgeting with what seems to be a very stable easy to use couple of system that already seem to have good track records.

    If everyone were burping, having tires slip, seeing air retention issues, etc, sure, tweak away. Or buy some Uma's and fuggedaboudit

    Someone beat you to the fat trailer g, sorry.....

    Quirings latest toy.
    Arghhh! Mine is a Topeak. Same rear rim and tire though. Looks good.

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I believe you are supposed to get 5 rims out of 1 roll and that's without stretching the crap out of it. I would give Speedway a call tomorrow. I have a roll that I've done 2 rims and still have a bunch left.
    They gave me a couple of rolls for my trouble so kudos to them. I rode the front wheel today and it rode, well like a front wheel. I had it pumped up pretty hard for me so I'll let some air out next time. The rear aired up easy too. I'll try that tomorrow. Sure wish we'd get some snow the studs in my Escalators make an awful racket on dirt with rocks mixed in.
    Latitude 61

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlh View Post
    I'm limited to east of town today, but there is still plenty of packing to be done there.
    You are tougher than me. I don't mind climbing that hill but I hate coming back down on all of the rocks and into what is almost always an ugly headwind.

    Did you pinch your tire the other day flying down off of the mountain?

  69. #269
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    Started my tubeless conversion last night- instead of trying to get the tyvek tape method to work I bought some sill plate foam and a roll of gorilla tape. Laid down some foam and ran two strips of tape along each edge of the CS rim- there was plenty of overlap so I didnt feel compelled to run a third down the middle.

    Put the tubes in and aired it up to 20 psig-- the f#@kers were both flat this AM... aired them up again and left for work- I noticed that the one was leaking where the valve came through so that may not be an issue once I install the tubeless valve.

    Really hoping the sealant does the rest! I don't want to peel the gorilla off- the tyvek tape was a mother to remove...

  70. #270
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    My tape only toobless experience was that it takes a lot more sealant, and longer to do the job. I shook and spun one for a week before it sealed up right. With the split tube it's over in twenty minutes, but I like the way the tire seats up without the split toob.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  71. #271
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    So where was it not sealing up at?

  72. #272
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    It was leaking out of the cut outs in the wheels, and my homemade valve stem (not surprising). I have a layer of fancy cheap duct tape, and then gorilla tape over foam. It's all sealed up now, though.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    My tape only toobless experience was that it takes a lot more sealant, and longer to do the job. I shook and spun one for a week before it sealed up right. With the split tube it's over in twenty minutes, but I like the way the tire seats up without the split toob.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"
    My BFLs on Gorilla Taped CS rims held air for over an hour before I added Stan's. Not a bit of leaking several hundred miles later.

  74. #274
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    I pulled the tubes out (which was extremely difficult) put in the sealant, aired the tires up with a floor pump- the back tire's bead "popped" into place. I soaped it up no leaks detected.

    The front tire's bead didn't "pop" into place but aired up to 25 psi and held- I had a few leaks that sealed up.

    This AM a lowered the pressure in both tires to put them back on the bike and the front tire lost sealant out of the bead side... I put it on aired it up to 20 psi and rode around on it. I plan on dropping the pressure and going for a cautious ride at noon.

    Overall it was very easy to do- I had trouble getting the tires on and getting to tube out since it was such a tight fit with the foam and the tape.

  75. #275
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    With the fit so "tight", why did you need to put the tubes in the tires to begin with?

  76. #276
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    I probably didn't. I decided that I didnt want to mess around for a week like I did last time so I didn't deviate from the plan. It worked- one day missed. The test ride went fine. The bike rides so much smother than before and feels less squirrelly in the corners. Very excited to take it down to 2 psi and cruise over some white stuff... whenever that stuff shows up!

  77. #277
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    I set up my Speedway Sterling tires tubeless today. It went pretty well. When I got the tires Wednesday, I removed my existing rim strip, tube, and tire. The rim strip was one layer of decorative duck tape that weighed 24 grams. I replaced it with two strip of of Gorilla tape, which overlapped a little in the center of the rim. I then tore out 30 squares of decorative duck tape and pushed them trough the holes, pretty side out. The total weight of Gorilla tape and decorative tape was about 60 grams.

    I then mounted the tire and installed the tube I had been using with the Husker Du tire that the Sterling is replacing. The tube was a Schwalbe SV13F (extra light, 26x2.10-3.00) that weighted about 200 grams. So the total weight of the tubed setup was about 224 grams--which I figure is about as light as you can get with a tube-based setup.

    I rode the bike with the tube for a few days like this to allow the tire to work out the shipping creases and the press the Gorilla tape firmly into pace.

    This morning I took off the rear wheel, deflated the inner tube and removed it. I left one side of the tire seated to the rim. I installed a Stan presta valve. I then pulled the unseated side of the tire as close as I could get it to its side of the rim. Two CO2 cartridges later and I had both sides seated. I removed the core of the Presta valve and poured about 75 grams of Slime Pro into the tire.


    Tubeless Tuesday.-uploadfromtaptalk1383882904542.jpg

    I re-installed the valve core and shook the tire for a few minutes to spread around the sealant. I inflated the tire with my hand pump up to about 20 psi and went for a short ride to further spread the Slime around. I lost a little air on the ride and could see where the Slime was doing its job sealing the rim. I aired it back up to 20psi and after 4 hours it seemed fully seated and sealed.


    Total time: about an hour. Total weight savings: 79 grams = 224 (old rim strip and tube) -75 (slime) -60 (new rimstrip)-10 (Stan's stem). Cost about $30. Not bad.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img00444.jpg  

    Last edited by Lars_D; 11-10-2013 at 10:18 AM.
    --Peace

  78. #278
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    Lik the rim tap ! A bit of rainbow going on.
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  79. #279
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    I'm hoping you all can help me understand something. I have been riding both of my HRD's with Husker Du's tubeless for a little while now. One is set up with a split tube (plus foam in the center channel), the other was set up with gorilla tape (and the same foam). The Gorilla Tape was done first, and I wasn't able to replicate it on the other wheel after many attempts, thus the split tube. Anyway, long story short is that the Gorilla Tape one started leaking - lots of sealant left, but I think the tape wasn't holding any more. I wanted swap out tires anyway, so I set that one up with the split tube as well.

    Here's the question: When I set it up, everything went well just like in my first split tube setup (on page 6 of this thread), but (and this happened, but just less the first time), after seating up, I had a lot of seepage out of the valve stem hole, an unused spoke hole nearby, and one other spoke hole around the other side of the rim. They all took a while to seal up, but the concept baffles me. I have a surly rim strip, foam, and then the split tube. The sealant shouldn't be coming out of anywhere except the sides of the rim/ bead socket. How is it possible that there would be sealant coming out of the sides of the valve hole and around a couple of spoke holes when the split tube should be creating a seal that never lets sealant to get to the rim/ rim strip/ outer valve? On the first inflation, there was lots of air coming out of these holes, and I surmised that this was the foam being compressed and the "pocket" between the rim and the split tube was pushing the air out of the spoke holes, etc, but I still don't understand how there could be sealant in that pocket. It's possible there was some sealant that got into the rim from my first gorilla tape setup, but otherwise, I'm totally not seeing how this would be happening. After two more inflations and shake arounds and such, it's all sealed up just fine and there's no more of this happening, but I am still baffled- it doesn't seem possible (unless, of course, there was sealant in the rim cavity already as mentioned before). Anyone else come across this?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  80. #280
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    It's sealant from your previous attempt.

  81. #281
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    Indeed. All the escaping air and sealant is the result of placing the split tube over that setup. Once you aired up the split tube, it compressed the foam and pressed out existing air and sealant to the nearest exit; spoke and valve holes.

    All is good. You should have a sound split tube setup now.

  82. #282
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    Thanks gents- that's what I assumed, but it was a little puzzling.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  83. #283
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    Wow... 12 pages was quite the read through this eve. Thanks to all for your experiments and sharing in my pre prep tubeless build.

    I am awaiting my new hubs to build up my first fat tubeless. Using squared drilled Darryls. Aiming for lite weight since I'm pretty lite and this is my snow only bike.... well, we'll see.

    The few vids on youtube showed it done pretty simple on Holy Darryls with rim strip and duct tape and the save all pressure around outside of tire! No foam, no ghetto tube and no hassle.

    First rim strip, then duct tape, pump up tube to set bead, open one side to remove tube, wrap outside of tire with a few rim strips to push tire down on rim and inflate.

    In Italian but you can understand the pics:

    Seems like the easiest and lightest setup so far. Am I missing something?

  84. #284
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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post

    Seems like the easiest and lightest setup so far. Am I missing something?
    I'd say the only thing you're missing is practical experience. I wasn't able to get husker day's to set up on my hrd's so easily without foam and split tube. I'll be psyched to see/ hear how this works for you - I'd love to have a more simple setup that is also solid and reliable.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  85. #285
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    No fat tubeless experience here yet. correct. I can't even try with my hubs delayed for another 3 weeks. ouch.

    The one thing in the vid and a couple others were the straps around the outer tire to apply pressure towards the rim, preventing air to flow out. I don't recall anyone saying they did that in this thread and that would make a big diff in inflation ease. Now I had a party life in my youth so I mighta missed it if someone did.

    In the theory in my head, trying a quick pull strap with buckle is easier to put on than the rubber straps they use and accomplishes the same thing.

    Let ya guys know when I'm workin on er. Gonna be a killer set a wheels.

  86. #286
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    Helecopter Tape.

    This stuff seems to be DA bomb!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_20131117_125509945.jpg  


  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    This stuff seems to be DA bomb!!
    How did you get it to go on so smoothly?

    l've had the oppisite experience from some on here going thenon split tube with Escalators on hrds. They set up perfectly. No air loss overnight so out I went for a ride, a very short ride. Stans sealant was leaking out all over. I had to pump up the tires multiple times in a mile. Back inside the tires held air all night no leaking at all. Tried another ride sealant pouring out all around the bead and even out around the valve stem. Back inside still holds at night, next ride just 3/4 mile down the street only leaked a little bit. I'm off to try another trail ride, hopefully it goes better.
    Latitude 61

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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    How did you get it to go on so smoothly?

    l've had the oppisite experience from some on here going thenon split tube with Escalators on hrds. They set up perfectly. No air loss overnight so out I went for a ride, a very short ride. Stans sealant was leaking out all over. I had to pump up the tires multiple times in a mile. Back inside the tires held air all night no leaking at all. Tried another ride sealant pouring out all around the bead and even out around the valve stem. Back inside still holds at night, next ride just 3/4 mile down the street only leaked a little bit. I'm off to try another trail ride, hopefully it goes better.
    Make sure you pump it up enough to seat the bead in the wheel bead socket. If it's not fully seated, you will lose air and sealant. It's easy to be fooled into thinking it is set up right because it will hold air... until you use it.

    When mounting mine, first I get it to hold air, I then start pumping it up slowly until the tire bead "Pops" into the wheel bead socket. I've found that it usually happens with about 25lbs of pressure but I've had to take it to 30psi once or twice to get it to fully seat. After it seats, then I can immediately take the air pressure down to my riding pressure; about 9psi.

    Done it with both Escalators and HuDu's on holy Rolling Darryls and Marge Lites. Make sure you can see the small rubber ridge at the top of the tire bead all the way around the wheel rim. If you don't see it, it's not seated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_2246.jpg  


  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    How did you get it to go on so smoothly?

    l've had the oppisite experience from some on here going thenon split tube with Escalators on hrds. They set up perfectly. No air loss overnight so out I went for a ride, a very short ride. Stans sealant was leaking out all over. I had to pump up the tires multiple times in a mile. Back inside the tires held air all night no leaking at all. Tried another ride sealant pouring out all around the bead and even out around the valve stem. Back inside still holds at night, next ride just 3/4 mile down the street only leaked a little bit. I'm off to try another trail ride, hopefully it goes better.
    My rear wheel (Clown Shoes and Lou) I set up using Fatback Stans tape plus an extra wrap of 25mm Stans just to get a little better coverage. Like mentioned above it's very hard to get it applied smoothly and I did get a little leakage from where the two tapes over lapped but it sealed up on it own. Also the beads set up very easy with no leakage.

    The front I set up with one wrap of 4" wide helicopter tape. This went on very smooth mainly due to the fact that is was stretchy. The only problem I had like already mentioned is the beads gave a false sense of being seated but actually weren't so I ended up taking one side off at a time and applying soap. They then popped on without any leaking at all.

    I learned a couple of things. One that I thing the helicopter tape I used might hold the bead a little better and the Bud on a hundie ran up to 30# tubeless is about 125mm wide and friggen big
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Tuesday.-img_20131117_205651027-1-.jpg  

    Tubeless Tuesday.-img_20131117_205528818-1-.jpg  


  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    This stuff seems to be DA bomb!!
    What are you using? Looks like moving tape wrapped several times around the center and once or twice going full width of rim.

    How did the setup turn out with the tire mount process?

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    What are you using? Looks like moving tape wrapped several times around the center and once or twice going full width of rim.

    How did the setup turn out with the tire mount process?
    No moving tape. Just one wrap of fabric to cover the holes and one wrap of helicopter tape. I set the beads using a tube, pulled the tube out and set the wheel on a bucket with the unseated bead side down, took the valve out and hit it with a little pancake air compressor, done.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    My rear wheel (Clown Shoes and Lou) I set up using Fatback Stans tape plus an extra wrap of 25mm Stans just to get a little better coverage. Like mentioned above it's very hard to get it applied smoothly and I did get a little leakage from where the two tapes over lapped but it sealed up on it own. Also the beads set up very easy with no leakage.

    The front I set up with one wrap of 4" wide helicopter tape. This went on very smooth mainly due to the fact that is was stretchy. The only problem I had like already mentioned is the beads gave a false sense of being seated but actually weren't so I ended up taking one side off at a time and applying soap. They then popped on without any leaking at all.

    I learned a couple of things. One that I thing the helicopter tape I used might hold the bead a little better and the Bud on a hundie ran up to 30# tubeless is about 125mm wide and friggen big
    That is BIG! Say, how do you do your valve stems? Melt a hole thru the tape/foam and use a Stan's presta valve, a presta cut out of an old inner tube, or have you drilled out for schraeders? Or other

  93. #293
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    No foam used but I just poke a hole through with a wood drill bit I have and use Stans presta valves.

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    Well, it was tubeless Thursday for me . Earlier this week I made Lou tubeless via split tube method with good success. It held air without any trouble even before adding homebrew sealant. Rides nice.
    So, heady with success, tonight I undertook de-toobulizing Bud as well. I did a wrap of wide gorilla tape and a wrap of regular, used a tube to seal the beads, took it back out, added a Stan's presta valve, 2 quick squirts of starter fluid, added a match, and whoosh! Success. Put in some homebrew sealant and so far so good . Bud is filling out the fork nicely...

  95. #295
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    I burped my rear tire twice today (set up split tube) has anyone had this issue when riding technical terrain? I was at around 7psi. I just hate having that in the back of my mind when I'm riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I burped my rear tire twice today (set up split tube) has anyone had this issue when riding technical terrain? I was at around 7psi. I just hate having that in the back of my mind when I'm riding.

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    What rims are you running? Do the rime have a good bead pocket? If so, you have not fully seated the bead in the pocket. I run tubeless and it takes 25+psi to get the beads to seat in the rim pocket. Then they are locked in there tight and I can take it down to 6-7psi with no issues.

    You still want to have enough air in there to mostly prevent rim hits when fat riding technical stuff, otherwise you risk damaging the rim just like regular tubeless.

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    I think they are seated, I put them up to 20psi when I first mounted them. It's on a weimann rim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I think they are seated, I put them up to 20psi when I first mounted them. It's on a weimann rim.

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    The Weimann rim could be the culprit. Looking at a cross section of the rim there does not seem to be a pronounced "pocket" for the bead. You may have to build one up with tape which is the typical fix to run tubeless on a rim that won't mechanically hold the bead. Look at the cross sections of these rims: The Surly has a ridge that helps hold the bead at the rim edge. The Weimann does not.

    Weimann rim: no pocket
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    Surly rim: notice bead pocket with flat area next to rim inside rim edge
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    Thanks! I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if I need to add a ridge of some sort.

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    Tubeless Tuesday.

    I set up my HRD's and 120tpi ultralight HuDu's tubeless today. Used 2 wraps of sill foam and a split tube. Had to wrestle the tire over the foam a bit but it aired right up and the bead quickly popped in.

    Last night I did a Larry on the same rim and it didn't need any foam (or sealant to hold air overnight). Couldn't get the HuDu's to work without the foam.

    Rode them today at ~9 psi and they worked great.

    2 question for the split tubers:
    * I want to trim the exposed split tube back but I'm not sure how much to leave out past the rim. How much did you trim off (or leave exposed)?
    * Have you been able to reuse the same split tube and foam when you change tires?

    Gratuitous and not-really-needed pics:

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