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Thread: Tubeless Darryl

  1. #126
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    Here are a couple pics.

    FYI, if you seat the beads with a compressor and make sure you use a valve with a removable core, you can make your own "Stan's injector" with a plastic squirt bottle from Harbor Freight ($4 for a 3-pack) and a length of clear plastic tubing 5/16"OD, 3/16" ID ($0.25 or so from Lowes). Way faster and cheaper then the stans injector.

    Gorilla tape 1 layer on left & right side right up to edge of rim where is starts to go vertical but not up the edges, then 1 more strip down the middle. Cut small hole for valve. I used old tube with a bunch of patches to cut valve out of.

    After the small amount of leaking I had on rear wheel, I would be tempted to do 2 layers left & right to build it up a bit more.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-tubeless_injector.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-gorillatape.jpg  

    Riding.....

  2. #127
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    Thanks for the information. Would tubeless be a good idea for touring?

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclerust View Post
    Thanks for the information. Would tubeless be a good idea for touring?
    If you like not getting flat tires, I'd say it's definitely a good idea! I was on a ride three days ago and got a huge 3" thorn in my front Nate. I actually stopped so my wife could witness it seal itself up when I pulled the thorn out... It didn't even lose enough air to be able to notice it'd punctured. Cool.

    My tubeless fatbike tires have been problem-free 100% of the time on the trail. I had initial challenges beading up a folding bead Nate, but once it was on the rim, it's been totally reliable (and that was the tire that I punctured a few days ago).

    Anyway, I give it a hearty thumbs-up for touring. I would, however, recommend using valve stems with removable cores and carrying extra sealant with you in your pack. That way, if you have an event that uses lots of sealant, you can add more without needing to unseat a bead.

    Good luck!

    Image: Errin Vasquez
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-5.jpg  


  4. #129
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    Need Help - Can't Get Stan's To Seal

    First off, there are several threads with good "how to" info on going fat tubeless, but this one has been particularly helpful to me and so I wanted to say thanks to shark and everyone else who has contributed here. Great stuff.

    I settled on the gorilla tape method, with Stan's stems . . .

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1398.jpg

    For seating the bead, I screwed around with trying to do it with compressed air for quite a while, with no success. I ended up using a variation of the method in this video, thanks ChevyM14.

    Instead of carb cleaner, I used acetylene. I have to insert my disclaimer here: I would strongly discourage you from trying this. It's inherently dangerous and I suggest you use another method to seat your beads.



    So far, so good.

    But that's when things went to h&ll. Both tires had been through this mess and had numerous thorn punctures. I thought that this type of puncture is exactly what Stan's sealant is all about, but I can't get the tires to seal. I started out with 6 oz (3 scoops) per tire, fed in through the presta stem, after taking out the core. I've blown half of it out on the floor. I'm not against adding more, but at this point, lack of sealant is not the problem, because the punctures are still shooting out sealant when rotated to the bottom.

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1426.jpg

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1427.jpg

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1431.jpg

    This is my first experience with Stan's sealant and I don't know much about it. I've spent the last two nights trying to get these mothers to hold air and they just won't seal. I've tried high air pressure and low air pressure and everything in between, along with all different speeds of rotating the tire in the truing stand or on the bike, along with all manner of wiggle/jiggle. No luck. I wish I could get them to hold air long enough to go out on a short ride and do all manner of drunken swerving to swish the sealant around, but they won't even hold air that long.

    That's $240 worth of tires (which is obscene, but that's another subject), and so no way I'm getting rid of them - I'll go back to tubes I guess, if I can't find a solution. But for those of you who have experience with Stan's, is there anything you can suggest in terms of maybe getting these dudes to seal up?

  5. #130
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    Are you shaking the bottle a lot before putting the sealant in?

  6. #131
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    2 things:

    Try to semi repair the known large holes in the tires (duct or gorilla tape may work).

    Add some glitter to the Stans sealant (it acts as a clotting agent, like platelets - it may be better to add this before seating the bead).

    HTH
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  7. #132
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    I just did tubeless bfl on a lm rim.
    I did the following,
    Put a tube in for a decent ride, to stretch tyre.
    Gaffs tape rim then use a 20 inch tube, fits lm rim perfectly.
    Inflate tyre with no stans, use soapy water to help seal tyre on rim.
    Then deflate, I use true blue sealant. Put on more soapy water.
    Inflate tyre and at the same time with the rim horizontal to ground move rim in a figure eight motion this will put sealant at tyre edge to seal tyre when inflating.
    Works a treat for me. Normal Larry is a lot easier

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    For seating the bead, I screwed around with trying to do it with compressed air for quite a while, with no success. I ended up using a variation of the method in this video, thanks ChevyM14.
    Thanks for the shout out. Sorry you could not get your tire to seal. I have never tried to seal a used tire full of hols, have tubless tire I have set up was new or all most new.
    2012 FatBack with BFL tires
    2010 Specialized StumpJumper FSR Expert
    2006 Specialized RockHopper

  9. #134
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    I had a finger sized stick go through my tire few weeks back, used a glueless patch kit on the inside of the tire, then & small dab of crazy glue in the hole from the outside. Fresh stans and no problems since.
    Riding.....

  10. #135
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    RD tubeless

    I just converted my folding Husker Du's to tubeless. I tried Gorilla tape over the Surly rim strip with a Stan's valve, but the bead was way to loose to air up. I ended up using a layer of packing foam down the middle and Gorilla tape over the top. This created a channel for the beads and it aired up easily with a compressor. I had a few spots that didn't want to seal along the bead and it would slowly lose air, but after riding it all is good. Used 6oz of Stan's per tire.

  11. #136
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    I wouldn't call it 'easy', but it is easier to air them up if you put a ratchet strap or something similar around the tire circumference and collapse the tire down a bit with it.

    Also, air them up with out the core in the valve. I use an air nozzle and temporarily attach it to the empty stem with gorilla tape and zip ties so I can use both hands to manipulate the tire. With these two tricks I have no problem getting them to air up with out the foam.

    And one last tip... I see a lot of guys using squirt bottles to shoot the stans in through the valve stem. I squirt mine in too but I just use the stans bottle with a short piece of hose attached. Works great and the stans bottles are graduated so you can tell how much you've put in.
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Funny you just bumped this. I finally hit my wall with fat tubeless on the trail tonight. I re-seated my front and am still leaking sealant on the brake side when riding. I tried the rear, to see if I had a bad rim or tire in the front, and it is even worse. I had to stop my maiden ride on the rear tonight to tube up because it was leaking so fast. Same as the front, break side bead leaking sealant and air like crazy but only when riding. Holds pressure fine and doesn't bubble soap when parked. Not sure what is going on but I am done messing with sealant for a while.

    Just an update on my quest for tubeless... Per Shark's recomendation I put a couple layers of tape on my bead shelves where I previously had none. This made airing up eaier and more importantly stopped my issue with leaky beads. It's been a couple hundred miles and I have not seen any sealant at my beads even at the lowest of air pressures. Thanks for the tip Shark!
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  13. #138
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    back in the day this is how all tubeless set ups worked. it's funny that 10 yrs later it's new again.

    I can't believe Stan's or even Surly haven't come out with a rim strip kit.

  14. #139
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    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant. Even finger-sized sticks will seal for 5 - 10 miles, generally good enough to get you back to the vehicle! (I've had 6 large sticks through the back tire so far this year. One with a tube, and it went flat in 10 seconds. Tubeless, I was able to continue riding 5 - 10 miles).
    Riding.....

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant. Even finger-sized sticks will seal for 5 - 10 miles, generally good enough to get you back to the vehicle! (I've had 6 large sticks through the back tire so far this year. One with a tube, and it went flat in 10 seconds. Tubeless, I was able to continue riding 5 - 10 miles).
    That's great to hear... Amazing you're getting large sticks in your rear tire. You must be doing some serious bushwhacking... Nice!

    I've been running a similar setup and have had a great year with zero flats over more than 2,000 miles. In fact, while racing at the Dakota Five-O, my front wheel hit a rock hard enough to put a gnarly dent in the rim, right behind the bead, yet there was no flat, burp or loss of air pressure... Awesome.

    Every fatbike tube I've had to buy this year has been because I've given my spare to someone on the trail... I'm up to three now!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-296619_278839082216269_598047805_n.jpg  


  16. #141
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    Since I have not owned any double walled fat rims I don't know how tires mount up to them but on single walled rims that many people use the tires are dangerously loose. Nothing I can do about it but take the risk and hope for the best if I want to ride fat, which is about all I want to ride anymore. So far no catastrophic accidents, just slow speed or while airing up blow offs.

    Fortunately in my area most trails are well maintained and ridden often but I still get thorn flats every few rides. So gong tubeless would be very beneficial, however I have not had good luck with any tire going tubeless other than a Larry. All others have not worked. If I wanted to jump thought enough circus hoops I could probably get it to work, but so far I have not had the patience, even though I have tried various times with split tubes and foam etc. If I lived in an area like some of you guys do I would pretty much have to convert to tubeless to keep my sanity.

    It seems like the best thing that could happen is if Quality/Surly made their tires with smaller beads and much of this trouble would go away and people could much more easily convert to tubeless. On all other bikes I have been running only tubeless since the technology was introduced to the market and thorn flats was a distant unpleasant memory until the fat tire with tubes thing came into my world.

    I realize that there are variations during production but I have never heard anyone complain that a fat tire was too tight and hard to mount on the rim. They are either loose or hella loose. So how about manufacturers changing specifications so the new range is tight to just right????? I don't see the advantages to anyone of making them too big.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Since I have not owned any double walled fat rims I don't know how tires mount up to them but on single walled rims that many people use the tires are dangerously loose. Nothing I can do about it but take the risk and hope for the best if I want to ride fat, which is about all I want to ride anymore. So far no catastrophic accidents, just slow speed or while airing up blow offs.

    Fortunately in my area most trails are well maintained and ridden often but I still get thorn flats every few rides. So gong tubeless would be very beneficial, however I have not had good luck with any tire going tubeless other than a Larry. All others have not worked. If I wanted to jump thought enough circus hoops I could probably get it to work, but so far I have not had the patience, even though I have tried various times with split tubes and foam etc. If I lived in an area like some of you guys do I would pretty much have to convert to tubeless to keep my sanity.

    It seems like the best thing that could happen is if Quality/Surly made their tires with smaller beads and much of this trouble would go away and people could much more easily convert to tubeless. On all other bikes I have been running only tubeless since the technology was introduced to the market and thorn flats was a distant unpleasant memory until the fat tire with tubes thing came into my world.

    I realize that there are variations during production but I have never heard anyone complain that a fat tire was too tight and hard to mount on the rim. They are either loose or hella loose. So how about manufacturers changing specifications so the new range is tight to just right????? I don't see the advantages to anyone of making them too big.
    My observations on these tires, particularly the Surly ones, is that they have a minimal amount of rubber under the bead area, where other tires have a lot of rubber. If you get to the point of having a tire/rim seat through whatever means to get a tight interface there isn't enough cushion rubber for some give to get the seating right. If it is tight enough to prevent burps (at least in the double wall marges I have) then it is too tight to mount the tire, as a matter of fact, I tore the bead on a larry trying to mount it on a rim with too much tape. I would take a slightly heavier tire to have more rubber on the bead, a wider bead for better tubeless sealing and more consistent bead diameters.
    Try this: HTFU

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant.
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    1 part latex (moldbuilder from hobby lobby, be sure to use online coupon usually 40% off)
    1 part slime (green stuff from automotive store)
    3 parts windshield washer fluid
    glitter as needed to help plug larger holes

    This makes about 4x the amount compared to buying stan's. Been using it 2 months now & very happy with results.
    Riding.....

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    Go check this out. At almost 2000 posts on the subject you could be reading for a week

    Best Tubeless Brew?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Rockcrusher. That makes some sense on the bead material.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  21. #146
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    Don't know if someone else has tried this, but on my current tubeless setup (Holey Darryl and Nate) I did this:

    Instead of Gorilla tape to seal the rim strip, I folded the stock red surly rim strip back, and laid a bead of polyurethane caulk right where the rim starts to turn up. Tried to get it pretty even and estimate a bead thickness that would seal but not have too much squeeze out. Flipped the strip down, and repeated with the other side. Gently pressed down and visually verified no gaps in the caulking (the strip is semi-transparent.) Wiped up a bit of excess. Did tire and tube as usual, then aired up to 20 or so and let it sit a day, so the polyurethane could kick a bit with the tube squeezing everything and stretching the strip. Deflated, broke bead on one side, removed tube and installed stans valve, you know the drill... Tires are well broken in at this point and popped right up. A little shake and all is good. No leakage yet under the rim strip (when stans is bubbling out of spoke holes...ugh.) Been about a week and been riding them, so far so good. A little poly squeezed out a spoke or two, but I just let it dry and it peeled off.

    The good--about as minimalist as you can get. Very little added weight. Fast and easy.
    The Bad--unknown. Rim strip might be really hard to remove if I needed to change a broken spoke... Think this would only work with a stock rim strip.

  22. #147
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    I have tried the tape and sealant method with very limited success. My tires would leak off fairly quickly if the pressure was above about 8 PSI. below 8 PSI. it would take a day or so. I did the split tube method which has worked great for me. How I did it was I use the foam around the rim that someone else on the form posted, it worked great. After I put the foam on the rim. I used a 19 tube for a motorcycle. ( stops the wrinkling problem I had using 26 fat tire tubes) When I split the tube I cleaned the tube where the tire bead fits and cleaned the tire bead its self also. I install the split tube on the rim and then put the tire on with the split tube on the inside and then pulled out over the rim. Its easier this way than to try to fit the tire over the rim and tube at the same time. With the foam on the rim you should have a snug fit between the tire and the split tube. Then I used a tire repair product made for cleaning rubber most auto part stores will have this. Then brushed on a rubber tire repair cement between the tires bead and the tube use liberal amount inflate the tire. I put a full 30PSI in mine to push the bead in place. Then use a razor blade the cut off the excess rubber from the split tube.
    When its muddy out I run about 15 to 18 PSI in my nates this method work well with that pressure. Also you can take off your tire if you need to and it will not come apart.

  23. #148
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    How is this holding up? I have Holey Darryls and a Nate and an HD and am thinking I want to set up tubeless. This seems like one of the best reports on here..
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  24. #149
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    Whoops- My "how is it holding up" question was for montana_ben- I like the idea of using the surly rimstrip and a little caulk...


    Quote Originally Posted by montana_ben View Post
    Don't know if someone else has tried this, but on my current tubeless setup (Holey Darryl and Nate) I did this:

    Instead of Gorilla tape to seal the rim strip, I folded the stock red surly rim strip back, and laid a bead of polyurethane caulk right where the rim starts to turn up. Tried to get it pretty even and estimate a bead thickness that would seal but not have too much squeeze out. Flipped the strip down, and repeated with the other side. Gently pressed down and visually verified no gaps in the caulking (the strip is semi-transparent.) Wiped up a bit of excess. Did tire and tube as usual, then aired up to 20 or so and let it sit a day, so the polyurethane could kick a bit with the tube squeezing everything and stretching the strip. Deflated, broke bead on one side, removed tube and installed stans valve, you know the drill... Tires are well broken in at this point and popped right up. A little shake and all is good. No leakage yet under the rim strip (when stans is bubbling out of spoke holes...ugh.) Been about a week and been riding them, so far so good. A little poly squeezed out a spoke or two, but I just let it dry and it peeled off.

    The good--about as minimalist as you can get. Very little added weight. Fast and easy.
    The Bad--unknown. Rim strip might be really hard to remove if I needed to change a broken spoke... Think this would only work with a stock rim strip.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    But for those of you who have experience with Stan's, is there anything you can suggest in terms of maybe getting these dudes to seal up?
    Most tires will hold air even if they are not originally tubeless. So if you're rim tape and Stan's presta valve are air-tight, make sure that your tire's beads are flush with the rim. If you can't tell, get SOAPY water (soap=bubbles), and wash the rim, it'll will be evident where there is air leaking.

    Sometimes, you need to pump it up far so that the beads will set in by pressure alone. I mean, 45psi, you'll hear it pop like popcorn when it gets in. Hope that works!

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