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  1. #1
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    Tubeless Clown shoe?

    Saw the thread using a Darryl...has anybody tried the method on a clown shoe?

  2. #2
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    A dude posted a pic on the Fat Bike Facebook group that is running Clowns sans tubes.

    Photos of Fat Bikes | Facebook

  3. #3
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    Just set up my front Clownshoe with Bud tire last night. Took two attempts to seat bead but it worked!

  4. #4
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    yup,it works fine on clown shoes,never needed anything but a floor pump to get them to set up,and never any problems in the desert until i ran over a bolt and then it was like a fat tire bukkake party as 16 oz of stans went everywhere...

    Tubeless Clown shoe?-002.jpg

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    yup,it works fine on clown shoes,never needed anything but a floor pump to get them to set up,and never any problems in the desert until i ran over a bolt and then it was like a fat tire bukkake party as 16 oz of stans went everywhere...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    16 oz? Most tutorials I have seen say 8oz per wheel. I bet that way pretty messy!

  6. #6
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    Just gorilla tape tubeless on clownshoes here. No experience with darryls but I found the tire a bit harder to seat than marges. Using a compressor, with marges, I didn't even need to seat a bead with a tube first, with the clown shoes, I did have to.

    I've always heard 6oz as the recommended sealant amount.

    Honestly even 6oz per wheel felt like too much for me. I've since reduced it to 4oz of homebrew per wheel and it's been working great.

  7. #7
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    its the desert,stans dries up pretty quick on its own,after 2 months on the last setup there was barely any left in liquid form,just some epic latex goblins...not to mention the goatheads...ive picked up 60-70 per tire in like 10 feet before...

  8. #8
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    You won't know it works until you poke a hole in the tire.

  9. #9
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    I split a Schwalbe AV10D over my Clown Shoes 2.5 years ago and they are still going strong. Not a single flat or burp during the whole time. The lowest pressures I've used have been below 3 psi.

  10. #10
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    Well it set easily enough. Gonna do rear wheel tonight and take it to Curt Gowdy State Park for a short ride. I am just glad they are sealed at the moment. I made the mistake of putting sealant in tire not valve, and had to pour it out after it didn't set. Got'r on the 2nd try though.

  11. #11
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    I got mine set-up great, and they work fine down to about 7 psi, but any lower and the stans just flows out between the rim and tire on the left side and it goes flat. I figure the stan's doesn't work unless you have a minimum pressure differential. Anyone else have this problem?

  12. #12
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    Your problem is not pressure differential or the sealant. Your problem is that you're trying to seal a poor fit with sealant. Even if you get it to seal, it will burp in no time.

    Build up the bead seat diameter to get a tighter fit between the rim and tire bead.

    (Alternatively it could be that the bead never seated right, but it's hard to tell over the internet.)

  13. #13
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    Been doing split tube on RD's and CS's with many tire combos for several years with excellent success.......

    Not sure if I'm missing something in the question though?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tswg View Post
    I got mine set-up great, and they work fine down to about 7 psi, but any lower and the stans just flows out between the rim and tire on the left side and it goes flat. I figure the stan's doesn't work unless you have a minimum pressure differential. Anyone else have this problem?
    What Saul said. You need the fit to be tighter.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tswg View Post
    I got mine set-up great, and they work fine down to about 7 psi, but any lower and the stans just flows out between the rim and tire on the left side and it goes flat. I figure the stan's doesn't work unless you have a minimum pressure differential. Anyone else have this problem?
    You running split tube, or some version of tape/rim strip?

    I'm done being a zealot for split tube people are gonna do what they're gonna do, but I've never seen that happen with it, and that's well below 4 or 5 psi too.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I'm done being a zealot for split tube....
    What specific tube/size do you recommend for Clownshoes and Lou/Bud? Do I need to tape or just the split tube? Will Slime work or do I need Stans sealant? I don't want to mess around, I just want it to work. To that end, I want to use your proven recipe.

  17. #17
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    Schwalbe AV-10D is what I used. The regular 10 was not wide enough.

    You do need to cover the rim holes somehow. Just a couple of layers of wide packing tape did it for me - the 10D is plenty strong on its own, but would stretch out of the holes without support.

    This combo is airtight even without sealant, unless you have pinholes in the tires. Sealant is only necessary for puncture protection.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    What specific tube/size do you recommend for Clownshoes and Lou/Bud? Do I need to tape or just the split tube? Will Slime work or do I need Stans sealant? I don't want to mess around, I just want it to work. To that end, I want to use your proven recipe.
    Q tubes, 24x2.4-2.75

    QBP part #TU6840

    Works on everything from an ML to CS. You just trim more excess tube off narrower rims is all.

    Rim, strip of your choice, then split tube.

    I used to build up the interface between strip and tube with foam to help tighten the bead contact for easier seating, now I just grab a 24" rubber cheapo rim strip, and stretch it around the exterior of the tire to hold it in more. Sometimes a bit of twisting of it to tighten further is needed, often not though.

    Minimal screw around? Try some foam, small bubble bubble wrap, whatever, and they generally go right up. I don't mind a bit of messing around, so I forego the build up layer at this point.

    Once seated and holding air, it may not be fully seated all the way around. Don't just add air till it seats, as it may just blow.

    I add ~5 psi and let it sit a while. Then a bit more, sit a while, it'll go, might just take a little while, patience is your friend.

    As for the whole "dude, you added a tube to a tubed system, your also not losing weight once you add the Stans blah blah blah" argument?

    Just set up a customers Fatboy. Weighed before and after, exactly 1 lb weight loss, all rotational weight.

    I use Stans, but assume Slime would be fine too.

    Works for me, but know that I've been setting up tubeless skinnies for a long time, and have a certain amount of experience, and tolerance for the screwing around that just about always seems to come with the territory. If I have one that goes wham bam done, regardless of tire size, I'm always surprised....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Schwalbe AV-10D is what I used. The regular 10 was not wide enough....
    I have QTubes 24 x 2.4-2.75 presta, that seems to be similar to the Schwalbe tube. In the US the Schwalbe isn't common like the QTube.

  20. #20
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    Saul, How do you build up the bead seat diameter? I guess going from the tape method to the split tubeless method will change that, but is there another way so I can keep the tape method. Thoughts?

    One other argument that you don't see mentioned very often is the decreased rolling resistance when you run a tubeless set-up. The friction between the tube and the tire is substantial when you're running at very low (5-6 psi) due to the amount of flex in the tire. Get rid of the tube and the tire is free to flex much easier and therefore roll easier.

  21. #21
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    Tape around the bead seat is what I do. If the fit was loose, I put two rounds, but if it snapped on just a bit too easily, one round will suffice.

    With a split tube you won't need this - the thickness of the tube makes the fit tight at the bead.

    The Q-tubes option seems to weigh 188 grams, so it's certainly lighter than the 260 g Schwalbe tube.

  22. #22
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    Wow, that was stupid easy, I just did it with a floor pump.

    - I used QTubes 24 x 2.4-2.75 presta as noted, split them with Fisker scissors opposite the valve.

    - mounted them on top of the stock rim strip that came with my Moonie. No tape, no foam strips, just the split tube on top of the stock Surly rim strip.

    - mounted the tires and massaged the split tube into place.

    - Used a pair of REI tie-down straps in-line (to make a longer strap) to mash the tire's bead into the split tube and create a temporary seal.





    - then pumped like he!! with my old school VAR pump. I had to massage the bead into place on the split tube and kinda pull/tug on the bead to get it to seal .

    - I got some pressure in the tire and the strap got real tight:



    - When I released the strap everything popped into place and the beads climbed right up on the shelf and sealed tight:


    the beers are tasting real good right now, thanks for the great advice MendonCycleSmith and Saul!

  23. #23
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    Tubeless Clown shoe?

    Yup. Three years on my Moonlander with no problems. I run 3 lbs on beach rides with no burps.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Wow, that was stupid easy, I just did it with a floor pump.

    - I used QTubes 24 x 2.4-2.75 presta as noted, split them with Fisker scissors opposite the valve.

    - mounted them on top of the stock rim strip that came with my Moonie. No tape, no foam strips, just the split tube on top of the stock Surly rim strip.

    - mounted the tires and massaged the split tube into place.

    - Used a pair of REI tie-down straps in-line (to make a longer strap) to mash the tire's bead into the split tube and create a temporary seal.




    - then pumped like he!! with my old school VAR pump. I had to massage the bead into place on the split tube and kinda pull/tug on the bead to get it to seal .

    - I got some pressure in the tire and the strap got real tight:


    - When I released the strap everything popped into place and the beads climbed right up on the shelf and sealed tight:

    the beers are tasting real good right now, thanks for the great advice MendonCycleSmith and Saul!
    Did you use any Stan's? If so how much? I also have the moonie rims and think tubeless would be a good way to go.

  25. #25
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    My buddy did the tubeless thing on his 5" tire and it actually by the time he added the sealer was heavier than the lightweight tube LOL

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizman View Post
    Did you use any Stan's? If so how much? I also have the moonie rims and think tubeless would be a good way to go.
    They held air overnight but there is some air loss. I am going to add 8oz of SlimePro Tubeless Tire Sealant to each tire now that everything is in place.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    My buddy did the tubeless thing... LOL
    Gotta have a dirt bag in every thread, thanks for your dedication and service!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    My buddy did the tubeless thing on his 5" tire and it actually by the time he added the sealer was heavier than the lightweight tube LOL
    Good job lowering weight is the least reason for going tubeless.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    They held air overnight but there is some air loss. I am going to add 8oz of SlimePro Tubeless Tire Sealant to each tire now that everything is in place.
    Thanks for the reply on that, I appreciate it! I should have read the thread a little closer as Mendon Smith did mention the sealant, I just read yours first. I really like my 5" er's and clown shoes and have been running around 7 psi in dry and 6 psi in snow but I gotta be careful how fast I go when hitting logs and rocks as I don't want to pinch flat. If I go slower and take it easy everything is fine and the traction is great! I run tubeless on my full suspension and love that, just gotta take the leap someday and go tubeless on the moonie.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    My buddy did the tubeless thing on his 5" tire and it actually by the time he added the sealer was heavier than the lightweight tube LOL
    I'm trying to figure out the math on this.

    Did he use an entire quart of Stans, or what?

    I do them, and give or take an ounce, an honest pound loss, per job.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  31. #31
    Jon
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    Not sure what he used sealer wise but before he had super light tubes from Europe so it was not a standard tube to start with. He also runs carbon wheels so that I am sure was harder to seal than an aluminum rim.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    Not sure what he used sealer wise but before he had super light tubes from Europe so it was not a standard tube to start with. He also runs carbon wheels so that I am sure was harder to seal than an aluminum rim.

    Gotcha, now why one would run tubes at all in a tubeless ready set up like that, is a mystery not unlike what happened to Easter Island....

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  33. #33
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    Hi everyone, I"m planning on doing split tube (Qtubes) method for my clownshoes + Bud/Lou, and am ordering everything up.

    Is one 16 oz bottle of stans enough for the two tires? researching around and it seems like 8 oz per tire seems reasonable.

  34. #34
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    That seems like a ton of sealant if you ask me. But if you subscribe to the I'd rather not have to think about sealant volume for a long time, club, then it'll be fine.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  35. #35
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    How much do you use?

  36. #36
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    I use 15 cl (that's about 5 US fluid ounces) per tire and I think it's quite a bit.

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    Thanks guys, I was worried 16 oz for two tires was too little.

  38. #38
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    I use ~ 2 scoops, each of which is 2 oz.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    I just finished converting the rear tire on my Moonlander to tubeless, used two wraps of gorilla tape and 4 ounces of Orange sealant. I used two bungee cords to squeeze the middle down and started the air up with a floor pump, that seated the bead that I broke free but I had to get a compressor to finish filling up because the side that wasn't popped off kept burping air almost as fast as I pumped it in.

  40. #40
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    Did the split tube method MC Smith described above with the Lou, and had zero issues. tire inflated nicely after cinching with a tie down strap. Used 4 oz's of stans via the removable core and a 2oz stans bottle.

    Went to do the Bud on the front rim same way and just couldn't get the tire to inflate on the tube to set the bead. reset the strap about 10 times, cinched hard, cinched lightly... tried the inflated tube that was in there before... tried with and without the core in... nothing. This was with a hand pump.

    So next up is to try with some foam to get the tire spread out from the get go, or I get my hands on a compressor.

    Since the foam would go under the split tube, I'm not concerned about absorbing stans. but is there a general consensus on the type of foam to use?

    Any other suggestions to try? I have some time while my back recovers from bending over the hand pump.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextall View Post
    Did the split tube method MC Smith described above with the Lou
    That you got it to work with a floor pump makes you my new hero

    I've always used a compressor.

    I'd check with buddies, see if anyone has one you can use for 5 minutes. Give that back a rest.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  42. #42
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    The type of foam they sell to insulate windows and doors at a hardware store is good. I don't think any of them will work well more than once, so get the lightest kind you can get.

    I've had good luck with the P-profile (which is kinda more rubbery than foamy) even with repeated tire changes. Even though it flattens, it still has some size the next time you're mounting a tire so it's better than nothing.

    I like to set things so that they air up with a regular pump, because if stuff happens on the trail I certainly won't have a compressor with me. I'd rather continue tubeless, but in case the tire fails to mount, I still carry a tube as well.

  43. #43
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    Finished bud tonight. Used some weather stripping to help make a seal to inflate to seat the bead with a floor pump.

    Actually asked my neighbor if I could borrow his compressor... But thought... One more try with the weather stripping. Thanks for the comments.

  44. #44
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    One follow up question to the split tubers... what's the consensus on trimming the ghetto tube overhang?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextall View Post
    One follow up question to the split tubers... what's the consensus on trimming the ghetto tube overhang?
    As in, to trim or not?

    I trim them. The excess catches dirt, water/ice/snow and becomes a mess. Nice neat trim, you hardly know it's there...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    As in, to trim or not?

    I trim them. The excess catches dirt, water/ice/snow and becomes a mess. Nice neat trim, you hardly know it's there...
    I always prefer nice, neat trim to the alternative
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    As in, to trim or not?

    I trim them. The excess catches dirt, water/ice/snow and becomes a mess. Nice neat trim, you hardly know it's there...
    Yeah, to trim.

    I assume that post trimming, the split tube can't be reused (unless I want to torture myself trying to make it work).

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextall View Post
    I assume that post trimming, the split tube can't be reused (unless I want to torture myself trying to make it work).
    Yep, I've made it work a few times, they actually kind of form into position. If you're careful removing the tire, it's actually not too bad.

    Of course a new tube is cheap too, so no major stress....

    Nice Dave, good catch!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextall View Post
    Yeah, to trim.

    I assume that post trimming, the split tube can't be reused (unless I want to torture myself trying to make it work).
    Next time I'm going to glue the split tube in place before I mount the tyre and trim the tube.

  50. #50
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    When the tires snapped into place, the excess split tube folded very neatly against the sides of the tire, so I left them untrimmed.

    If they hang out like ham from between a sandwich, better trim them.

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