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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Or tubeless plugs. Keep 'em handy enough and you can stuff one in fast, thus not needing to dig out the pump to top the tire off.

    If a screw gets ripped out chances are good the replacement won't have great purchase. Plug it first, then when you get home you can remove the plug, fill the hole with glue/silicone/etc, then thread a replacement screw in.
    +1.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by cere8 View Post
    i have VH with KK and they are staying in fine. i did superglue but no idea if that actually helps or not. i ground 1/8th inch off and then used a drill to put them in and it was super easy. Very happy so far.

    Do you have pictures ? Also are you running them tubeless ? Have you lost many studs ?

    Thanks
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  3. #103
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    Also one other dumb question. Does anyone run the same tires with and or without studs... and just pull them out or put them in when needed ? Rather than switching / remounting tires or having a spare wheel setup ?
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  4. #104
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    I pulled the studs out of my Bulldozers for summer use. Have not reinstalled yet.
    Pulled = unscrewed.
    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Javorsky View Post
    Do you have pictures ? Also are you running them tubeless ? Have you lost many studs ?

    Thanks
    I do run them tubeless. I'll snap a picture at home tonight. I have not lost any studs so far. I ride about a mile or so to the trail on asphalt sometimes and I've had no issues so far.

  6. #106
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    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-0130161437.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-0130161436b.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-0212160742.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Javorsky View Post
    Do you have pictures ? Also are you running them tubeless ? Have you lost many studs ?

    Thanks

  7. #107
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    Thanks for the puctures. This has me thinking now.

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  8. #108
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    Vee Snowshoe 4.5 with 320 Kold Kutters:

    Straight up insane traction even with a super treacherous 1/2'' layer of fresh snow over glare ice:
    Espen Wethe
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  9. #109
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    Failure happened to me today. Went down a steep rocky section with locked rear brake. One of the kutters got ripped out of the Snowshoe 4.5 leaving a hole that Stans could not seal.
    I had to walk home. About 3 miles...
    Next time I will have som extra kutters in my pocket to quickly screw in before too much air is leaked out of the tire. Hopefully i will be quick enough so I can inflate again with a handpump...

  10. #110
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    Figured I might as well drag up an old thread as it is approaching that time of year where I start thinking about stuff I need for the fat bike season......

    I am 99% sure I am going to go with the Kold Kutters into a new set of Mission Commands in 4.7" for both myself and my wife.

    I figure I can do all 4 tires for roughly the price of 1.5 D5s and have better traction.

    We ride mostly groomed singletrack that with fresh powder was fine with non studded tires but for about 5 week went to glare ice and then spotty ice and we stayed away. This year I think I want to at least be able to ride when there are mixed conditions, no pure lake crossings here etc. just singletrack and double track.

    I run tubes so I was thinking of installing the 3/8" KKs like everyone else and then flipping the tire inside out and grinding down the tips with a 4" angle grinder and/or a grinding wheel on a dremel. Then possibly going with a layer of Gorilla tape or maybe some thin sloe cell foam and spray adhesive....slapping in a tube and ride away.

    Any significant flaws in my approach?

    we run relatively hard pressures compared to most.....7-10psi has been roughly where we were last winter.
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  11. #111
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    I went with Original Gold ice spikes in a set of mission 4.0? last year. They pierced the carcass which I was fine with, but it did mean grinding the inside of the tire. I have a large belt grinder that did the trick, turn the tire inside out and wear a heavy old sweater, loop the tire around your arm and do some grinding, same thing more or less could be done with a hand held grinder. Holding the tire will be the toughest part, as it's like holding a porcupine.

    Once ground, I then smeared outdoor silicone sealant on top of every screw for added protection. I did run tubeless but I think the silicone would likely keep your tubes safe. After a year of being setup I looked inside the tire the other day and found about 10% of the silicone had come lose, probably due to exposure to Stans. Maybe something more stan's resistant could be found. All the silicone had visibly yellowed, which I'm guessing isn't a good thing in terms of it's longevity.

    I found that the spikes tend to tear out on rocks, any sort of of camber exposed rock, or rock on the side of the trail is a significant hazard as the tires don't have enough strength with the limited thread engagement to keep retain the screws. Never lost a screw outside of that scenario. In most cases a screw loss was fine due to the silicone on the inside of the tire keeping everything air tight, on occasion though it meant a qucik way to get a flat tire. I started keeping some extra studs in my pack and would just install a new one, re-inflate, and continue on the ride fairly quickly. I'd say I lost 10-15 studs in a 500km snow/ice riding season.

    Given that I'm tubeless, this year I'm going to re-do the screws and back them with nylon nuts in order to increase the pullout strength.

  12. #112
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    Anyone used Kold Kutters for On-one Floater?
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

  13. #113
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    Similar setup that I have been running for a couple of years, but with 240 Kold Kutters per tire on Vee Snowshoes and 65 mm LB rims and Orangeseal Winter. These work exceptionally well in icy conditions. 5 stars.

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20161219_114648.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20161226_161800.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20161226_153924.jpg
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  14. #114
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    Looks like nasty hardpack!
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  15. #115
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    Getting ready to finish putting 125 KK's on my 4.5 Snowshoes, finally. I will then be grinding the inside tip and applying silicone. I might try a tube 1st as the 80mm rims I have don't agree with a tubeless setup. Post some pics soon. Also will be only running the rear for now and see how that goes. Most trails here are just patches of ice and mostly crust, so might be good for now.
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  16. #116
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    I just studded a pair of Vanhelgas last night. 238 kold kutters in each tire. May be a bit overkill, but we will see this weekend.

  17. #117
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    Curious how that will go. I ran a KK studded VH in front last year with no problem. I moved it to the back this year and first ride out I lost a bunch of studs and a few more were about to pull out of the VH in the back. Not sure if I just hit something with really bad luck or KK in VH for the rear aren't good.

  18. #118
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    I went with the 60tpi Vanhelgas hoping for a better bite with the studs. The 60tpi is much stiffer than my 120tpi vanhelgas. If they start to back out, I may try bonding them in with Gorilla glue. I will post back with results after a couple of rides.

  19. #119
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    Well, the kold kutters do not work well in Vanhelgas as mentioned by cere8. My front held up well, and i lost about a third of them in the rear over a 10 mile ride. I am going to keep the kold kuttters in the front, and i put some tek sheet metal screws from the inside out through the existing holes. I will test this setup this week, but I think it will work well. Here is a pick of the screws I used.

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  20. #120
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    Are you planning on running those panhead screws tubeless? I've been running kk front and lath screws rear for a couple years. I pull them out in front, but the attrition is borderline livable. No way out back. Never tried the lath screws tubeless, and have to run a liner to stop the panheads from abrading the tube.

  21. #121
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    It's less about the VH and more about KK's on the rear of a bike, being run tubeless. So much torque they're bound to get ripped out.

    The people I know that have made KK's work out back have used a tube, with a liner. The pressure from tube/liner pushing against the point of the screw seems to be the solution, as these people don't lose studs, while those of us that tried to run them tubeless do.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's less about the VH and more about KK's on the rear of a bike, being run tubeless. So much torque they're bound to get ripped out.

    The people I know that have made KK's work out back have used a tube, with a liner. The pressure from tube/liner pushing against the point of the screw seems to be the solution, as these people don't lose studs, while those of us that tried to run them tubeless do.
    Thanks for the heads up. Will have to rethink the rear, but that makes total sense.
    Dash Pt. State Park (Tacoma), Big Sky Montana during Snowboard Season, Duluth Mn, a couple of times of year incl. Xmas.

  23. #123
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    I am running the tek screws with a liner and tube

  24. #124
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    The teks screws are a success after ride 1

    Kold kutters still going strong in the front

  25. #125
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    One of the guys on the Norwegian forum tried Kold Kutters in Jumbo Jim. Works well up front but not in the rear. Note that even Best Grip did not work in the rear tire either.

    However, I have tested Kold Kutters in the rear tire with Snowshoe XL and Snowshoe.
    Approx. 250pcs in Snowshoe XL and now 330pcs in Snowshoe. Have not lost a single one, despite some pretty crazy loading climbing frozen ''waterfalls'' and this winter, way, way to many miles on dry ground.
    I think the rubber compound is the clue. This is the 120tpi Silica version that is very pliable.
    Buddy runs 125pcs front and rear in Vee Missions, he has not lost a single one either, neither have some other friends that also run 330pcs in the rear Snowshoe 4.5s.

    Ie. both Mission and Snowshoe make ideal bases for Kold Kutters. My recommendation is Snowshoe 4.5 Silica.

    Downside with KK is that they wear fairly quick on stony ground, and I've been putting in way too many miles on that kinda trail surface since we last saw snow almost 2 months ago.
    Blunt KKs lose a lot of grip vs new ones

    I'm considering setting up a pair of Snowshoes with aggressive carbide studs in the center and KKs in the side and transition knobs. It will not grip as well as a tire with fresh KKs all over, but they will not see such a rapid decline of grip when ridden on dry ground.
    It is the center KKs that take pretty much all the beating.

    Then another pair of tires with KK in the center as well for types riding that will not see (much) dry ground.
    Nothing comes close to sharp KKs. The almost make ice riding boring since the traction is total.

    Edit:
    For the ''dry ground with ice'' wheel set, maybe something like this for the center knobs.
    500pcs for $68: https://goo.gl/OxA8BS
    100pcs for $17: https://goo.gl/wuqZCc
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  26. #126
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    Here are the tires I used that seem to be holding up with 125 KK's in each:
    Front: Vee Snowshoe 4.5 - 120tpi - 5-8 psi tubed
    Rear: Vee Trax Fatty 3.25 - 120tpi - 7-10 psi tubeless

    I spent some extra time on these in the hopes that a tube would survive the front tire setup. I went and ground down the inside of the tire where the tips were proturding about 1/8 inch. I then went around and smeared silicone on each tip, as I had some available and felt it was easy enough to do. I am not sure if the sillicone will also help keep the studs from pulling out, but can't hurt. The Trax Fatty is a much thinner tire and I actually tore through a few spots when I started to grind the heads, but just siliconed em added extra Stans when setting up tubeless.

    I tested this setup the day after on my icy pond with 1-2 inches of fresh snow. With only 125 studs, the traction is still super, but another 80-100 would be better. I only studded the middle and next outer row, but not the very outer row of knobs. It is not setup for hard cornering - yet. Still a huge improvement on ice and slick hardpack for sure! Hope to setup my other 4.5 for the rear, but for now the B+ is adequate.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_1727.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_1731.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_1733.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_1735.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_1739.jpg  

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  27. #127
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    These KK's proved to be a winner up against other setups I rode with today. We were all riding very slick crust and ice so grip was at a premium. The other tires I was up against were studded Vanhelga, Jumbo Jim and Snowshoes. The conditions were so slick that it was difficult just to walk off the bike. The trails were steep and twisty singletrack with lots off camber and high speed ravines where trust in grip was essential. Granted these were tough conditions for any studded tire, the other bikes had more trouble and seemed to slip a bit more with the smaller studs. The KK's proved to be the ultimate in grip and control over all others. Now I just need to add some more to the side knobs for better cornering confidence. Do yourself a favor and add some KK's to your non-studded tires...they are unreal!
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Now I just need to add some more to the side knobs for better cornering confidence. Do yourself a favor and add some KK's to your non-studded tires...they are unreal!
    Sounds good!
    Yep, definitely add some more Kutters. I run around 330pcs per tire:
    Espen Wethe
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  29. #129
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    Right on! Is anyone riding these very aggressively....as in fast downhill? I hit some up today for the 1st time and they proved quite fast on the DH sections. I do notice some drag with these big KK studs on very hard crust or ice. I am now thinking of having more of them on the tires for an upcoming DH fat bike race! The confidence these studs provide is amazing and I would think the additional drag would be less a concern going downhill as fast as possible. The race is at Highland in NH btw!

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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Here are the tires I used that seem to be holding up with 125 KK's in each:
    Front: Vee Snowshoe 4.5 - 120tpi - 5-8 psi tubed
    Rear: Vee Trax Fatty 3.25 - 120tpi - 7-10 psi tubeless

    I spent some extra time on these in the hopes that a tube would survive the front tire setup. I went and ground down the inside of the tire where the tips were proturding about 1/8 inch. I then went around and smeared silicone on each tip, as I had some available and felt it was easy enough to do. I am not sure if the sillicone will also help keep the studs from pulling out, but can't hurt. The Trax Fatty is a much thinner tire and I actually tore through a few spots when I started to grind the heads, but just siliconed em added extra Stans when setting up tubeless.

    I tested this setup the day after on my icy pond with 1-2 inches of fresh snow. With only 125 studs, the traction is still super, but another 80-100 would be better. I only studded the middle and next outer row, but not the very outer row of knobs. It is not setup for hard cornering - yet. Still a huge improvement on ice and slick hardpack for sure! Hope to setup my other 4.5 for the rear, but for now the B+ is adequate.
    I also went to the Winter Wooly at Highland. I had nates with kold kutters in them, and they didnt really help in those super powdery conditions.

    anyway, i'm interested in what length you used to get that much protrusion on the inside. with the 3/8 screws, they hardly come through at all.
    looks like you hit them with hot glue, did it help keep them in the tire at all?
    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  31. #131
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    Has anyone installed KK with consideration to the direction of the head for steering braking acceleration as done on motorcycle tires?

    Or doesn't it seem to matter and willy nilly is ok?

  32. #132
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    Keeping Kold Kutters from pulling out

    I really like how the kold kutters work when all the single track turns into rivers of ice. Last year I ran the 3/8" length in a FBF/FBR set. Climbing in mixed condition they would pull out of the rear. This year I replaced them all with the 1/2" length and retained them from the inside with 6-32 nylon nuts. They seem very secure this way but we will see how it goes. The nuts are sourced from McMaster Carr.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-dsc_0789a.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-dsc_0769a.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-dsc_0767a.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-dsc_0765a.jpg  


  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal8 View Post
    I really like how the kold kutters work when all the single track turns into rivers of ice. Last year I ran the 3/8" length in a FBF/FBR set. Climbing in mixed condition they would pull out of the rear. This year I replaced them all with the 1/2" length and retained them from the inside with 6-32 nylon nuts. They seem very secure this way but we will see how it goes. The nuts are sourced from McMaster Carr.
    You're the man! This is exactly what I was looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  34. #134
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    any update for how the nylon nuts have been working? I have some in the mail. I will hopefully have my setup together by the end of the week. looks like its warming up and then going back into a deep freeze, so it will be good to get the studs on this weekend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  35. #135
    Oslo, Norway
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    Wow, slick solution with the nylon nuts
    Espen Wethe
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdawg21892 View Post
    any update for how the nylon nuts have been working? I have some in the mail. I will hopefully have my setup together by the end of the week. looks like its warming up and then going back into a deep freeze, so it will be good to get the studs on this weekend.
    I put about 25 miles on them including a 10 mile race where they got some abuse. So far no issues and the traction is great. We haven't had the conditions yet where I really need them but that might show up after this warm weather.

    It takes forever but I installed the nuts by hand so I could feel how much I was compressing the rubber. Go slow when you grind off the excess screw as it will be easy to overheat and damage the nut or tire.
    Last edited by Metal8; 1 Week Ago at 08:51 PM.

  37. #137
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    This is so much better!
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

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