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  1. #1
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    Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?

    I have a back injury that can take a beating on my rigid fatty with a carbon fork and thud buster seat, so was thinking about trying out a Bucksaw. It would be mainly winter biking but I like the narrower single track trails that are rooty early season and can have lots of footprints, moose prints frozen in.

    When I stopped by the local shop the other day they said they had stopped carrying them because they had problems with the rear triangle breaking, and cited a customer that had broken two. Anybody else had trouble with the Bucksaw? I did find one thread that linked to a imgur pic of a cracked rear triangle, but that's it. Wondering if this is a legit concern?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    I recall that one thread as well and have not seen anything from anyone since.

  3. #3
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    I've been riding one since the first batch were delivered. I have over 1600mi on it, and no problems. Spent the last 2 weekends doing stuff the bike is most definitely not designed to do. Jumps in Louisville Mega Caverns and Ray's in Cleveland. Granted I'm not all that good at jumping, so I stayed on the easier jump lines. But still. I ride the bike pretty hard. It's got a lot of scratches and dings. No problems whatsoever with durability.

    There are always those people who either have bad luck and have a bunch of unexplainable broken bikes. But then there are also those people who really abuse bikes and break everything they touch.

  4. #4
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    I am probably the customer they are talking about. I had 2 chain stays crack, the first one was just the cross member right at the weld. I caught the first one pretty quick, I heard a creaking noise and went looking. The second one I was not so lucky, I found it the hard way. Rode to the top of Resurrection Pass last spring but it still was a lot of snow in the trail and turned around. On my way back just after the last hump and you break over into the downward section doing about 20mph there are small drain ditches across the trail I felt the back of my BS start to get squirrelly and sink. After that ragged dolled down the hill. I got myself together went back and found my bike to see the back was totaled it looked like the chain stay broke right behind the swing fitting where the tube is welded. Pretty much totaled the bike not to mention beating be up also and the 16 or 17 mile walk back packing a broken bike.
    I weigh about 230 to 240 dress for riding, I ride a lot of trails with roots and tech stuff but I would say I am not abusive. I never jumped the my BS other than a little air when trail riding. I had the bike less than a year So the first cracked chain stay my LBS and salsa warrantied it very quickly, I think within a week I had my bike back. The second was a little more complicated I had the LBS build my BS from a frame with a lot of expensive parts also my helmet got cracked and my bike shoe didnít fare much better with walking back that far. As always my LBS was great, they went to bat for me with salsa about the warranty. After talking to salsa they said they had not changed the swing arm at all. So my LBS and I came to the conclusion it would not be in my best interest to build another BS. So after a lot of back and forth we came to an agreement with salsa on a price for the damage and called it good.

    I bought a Foes Mutz with a wren fork that I have been very happy with, differently a bike worth looking at.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-20160604_134305.jpg  

    Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-20160604_134203.jpg  


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    I am probably the customer they are talking about. I had 2 chain stays crack, the first one was just the cross member right at the weld. I caught the first one pretty quick, I heard a creaking noise and went looking. The second one I was not so lucky, I found it the hard way. Rode to the top of Resurrection Pass last spring but it still was a lot of snow in the trail and turned around. On my way back just after the last hump and you break over into the downward section doing about 20mph there are small drain ditches across the trail I felt the back of my BS start to get squirrelly and sink. After that ragged dolled down the hill. I got myself together went back and found my bike to see the back was totaled it looked like the chain stay broke right behind the swing fitting where the tube is welded. Pretty much totaled the bike not to mention beating be up also and the 16 or 17 mile walk back packing a broken bike.
    I weigh about 230 to 240 dress for riding, I ride a lot of trails with roots and tech stuff but I would say I am not abusive. I never jumped the my BS other than a little air when trail riding. I had the bike less than a year So the first cracked chain stay my LBS and salsa warrantied it very quickly, I think within a week I had my bike back. The second was a little more complicated I had the LBS build my BS from a frame with a lot of expensive parts also my helmet got cracked and my bike shoe didnít fare much better with walking back that far. As always my LBS was great, they went to bat for me with salsa about the warranty. After talking to salsa they said they had not changed the swing arm at all. So my LBS and I came to the conclusion it would not be in my best interest to build another BS. So after a lot of back and forth we came to an agreement with salsa on a price for the damage and called it good.

    I bought a Foes Mutz with a wren fork that I have been very happy with, differently a bike worth looking at.
    That blows, sorry to hear, Our shop has sold many of them, we have not had an issue at all.

  6. #6
    A Surly Maverick
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    I seriously considered a BS, but at 260lbs +, the carbon stays were a concern.

    I was lucky to very recently pick up a Turner King Khan second hand.

    Sadly, they do not make these any more.

    The Foes Mutz is a good choice if you are in the USA.

    There are also some German full sus fattys, but import charges may increase the price quite a bit !

    Good Luck,
    Dr FG
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    I seriously considered a BS, but at 260lbs +, the carbon stays were a concern.
    I could be wrong on this, but if the Bucksaw is like almost every other Salsa, the chainstays are aluminum. And it was the chainstays that broke, at least in the above pictures.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogdude222 View Post
    I could be wrong on this, but if the Bucksaw is like almost every other Salsa, the chainstays are aluminum. And it was the chainstays that broke, at least in the above pictures.
    I did a fair amount of looking be for I bought the BS I had, at that time there were a couple of picture of the carbon seat stays broken on the interweb. But very little problems so I went for it.
    Yes I think it was the aluminum chain stay the broke first and then the carbon seat stays were broken in the after math, as you can see the axle was broke on both sides also. So there was a lot of force applied to the rear triangle. The chain stay on the other side was unbroken.

  9. #9
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    I've had a BS for a little over 2 years. I noticed a tiny crease in the paint on the carbon seat stay in the same location as the one that was featured on this forum. I emailed my LBS and kept riding and it has gotten a little worse. Salsa sent a new part to replace it but I haven't had it done yet. I am not a big guy and ride the bike within the 4' max drop per Salsa's guidelines. I do need to get it fixed and would not hesitate to buy another or recommend this bike. It is still awesome IMO. The LBS said mine is the only one they have seen with this issue.

  10. #10
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    I have had my Bucksaw for two years and it has been fine. I do a little jumping but nothing major. I ride mostly rooty/rocky technical trails. No damage at all from the crash that left me with a titanium upgrade in one leg.
    Flotilla or Buffet.

  11. #11
    All fat, all the time.
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    My aluminum frame cracked right above the bottom bracket, on the seat tube.
    Luckily my LBS stood up for me, and Salsa sent a new front triangle only. I got stuck paying labor to disassemble/reassemble. Salsa apparently didn't like the lefty being on there, LBS had to measure and prove the A toC was the same as a bucksaw and within acceptable range.

    I love the bike, but would not buy a used frame IE no warranty.Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-img_20160720_201048919-1600x900.jpg

    If it cracks again I'm going to something else.

  12. #12
    A Surly Maverick
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    DD222 you are right

    Chainstays are Al and the seatstays are Carbon.

    It is still the carbon stays that put me off, due to my mass and lack of biking subtlety

    Dr FG .
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  13. #13
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    All high performance bikes using aerospace materials with finite fatigue limits need periodic inspections. I just found a potential crack on my BS carbon seatstay and will monitor it to see if it propagates. In the meantime I'm going to see how much the replacement is going to cost. I'm the third owner so no warranty negotiations for me. Anybody have a LBS that sells the BS frames for less than MSRP?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    All bikes high performance bikes using aerospace materials with finite fatigue limits need periodic inspections. I just found a potential crack on my BS carbon seatstay and will monitor it to see if it propagates. In the meantime I'm going to see how much the replacement is going to cost. I'm the third owner so no warranty negotiations for me. Anybody have a LBS that sells the BS frames for less than MSRP?
    The 2016's are on closeout right now. PM me for details.

  15. #15
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    All high performance bikes using aerospace materials with finite fatigue limits need periodic inspections. I just found a potential crack on my BS carbon seatstay and will monitor it to see if it propagates. In the meantime I'm going to see how much the replacement is going to cost. I'm the third owner so no warranty negotiations for me. Anybody have a LBS that sells the BS frames for less than MSRP?
    Anything has a fatigue limit, whether it's made from "aerospace" materials or goat cheese. All sorts of things are aluminum and carbon these days, from mountain bike boots to car chassis. That's no excuse for poor engineering/design. What is happening if we are getting cracks is some part of the bike either has a flaw, or some part/junction is designed with a fatigue limit lower than what the bike experiences on a regular basis. Once that is experienced, the crack starts and progresses with each cycle, possibly slowly, possibly quickly. If it's not an overload failure, it's usually a flaw/manufacturing/design defect. It's not possible to put the amount of cycles that would cause the fatigue life to be reached in any realistic amount of time.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    All high performance bikes using aerospace materials with finite fatigue limits need periodic inspections. I just found a potential crack on my BS carbon seatstay and will monitor it to see if it propagates. In the meantime I'm going to see how much the replacement is going to cost. I'm the third owner so no warranty negotiations for me. Anybody have a LBS that sells the BS frames for less than MSRP?
    Depending on where the crack is it could be very easy to fix. One of the nice things about carbon is it's repairability.
    Latitude 61

  17. #17
    beer thief
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    This was taken July 2015. It's a bit worse now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-adair-bucksawd-7-3-201-medium-.jpg  


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    This was taken July 2015. It's a bit worse now.
    Does that crack go around to the inside where the short link attaches?

    One problem with this joint is that the arm is not an exact fit in the seat-stay and when the hinge bolts are torqued it will put a lot stress on the seat-stay. Mine will get shimmed when it is re-assembled.

  19. #19
    beer thief
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    Does that crack go around to the inside where the short link attaches?

    One problem with this joint is that the arm is not an exact fit in the seat-stay and when the hinge bolts are torqued it will put a lot stress on the seat-stay. Mine will get shimmed when it is re-assembled.
    Yes, here's a pic from today of the bottom. A classic notch condition even with the rounded corner. I need to call the shop and get it down there....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-adair-bucksawa-2-15-2017-medium-.jpg  


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    This was taken July 2015. It's a bit worse now.
    Dang, quit riding it and get it to the shop!

  21. #21
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    Thanks everyone for responding, especially exp18 good to hear and see a first hand report, sorry I wasn't getting the emails there were replies to the thread. May still consider a BS but will look into the Mutz too.

  22. #22
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    Farley EX, similar geo to BS and Mutz, more versatile than either, carbon or aluminum.

    Not to bash on Salsa or the Bucksaw, but that's a fair number of frame failures for a boutique bike. The crash that resulted from the complete failure of a frame could have been deadly.

    If you need bomber, you can't go wrong with a Mutz.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Farley EX, similar geo to BS and Mutz, more versatile than either, carbon or aluminum.
    How is it more versatile? With the factory wheels it has two only tires that fit it..... Wait a second didn't we just go through this on the other Bucksaw thread how you derail every thread with your bike of the week.

    I'll spell this out for you clearly since you didn't seem to get it there:

    GO AWAY BEN! Nobody likes you.

    Signed,

    Every Bucksaw owner
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Farley EX, similar geo to BS and Mutz, more versatile than either, carbon or aluminum.

    Not to bash on Salsa or the Bucksaw, but that's a fair number of frame failures for a boutique bike. The crash that resulted from the complete failure of a frame could have been deadly.

    If you need bomber, you can't go wrong with a Mutz.
    Yea but it says Trek, anyway to remove that?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post
    I have a back injury that can take a beating on my rigid fatty with a carbon fork and thud buster seat, so was thinking about trying out a Bucksaw. It would be mainly winter biking but I like the narrower single track trails that are rooty early season and can have lots of footprints, moose prints frozen in.

    Thanks
    I bought my Bucksaw for the same reason, the rear split pivot suspension is excellent and really smooths out the rough stuff, much easier on the back for sure.
    I test rode the Farley as well but found the Bucksaw fit better.
    I wouldn't worry about a few frame cracks found on the internet, a quick Google search of any brand will turn up some. I'm not aware of any design changes or recalls on the Bucksaw so it's likely just a few unfortunate incidents, I'm very happy with mine.
    Also I have 4 sets of expensive fat 26inch tires already and wasn't keen on switching to a new tire size, it's nice to be able to swap back and forth with the rigid.
    '07 Spec Enduro
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  26. #26
    beer thief
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    My dealer replaced the carbon seatstays at no cost. I still love this bike; by far the best bike I've ever owned. I also have cracked two Trek carbon frames so take that FWIW. I'm not a big guy but I'm not very gentle on my equipment.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    blah, blah, blah
    Hmmm, seems like someone is feeling a little defensive

    You do know that a bucksaw is a bike, it's not meant to be a girlfriend.
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 03-20-2017 at 10:14 PM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Hmmm, seems like someone is feeling a little defensive

    You do know that a bucksaw is a bike, it's not meant to be a girlfriend.
    Too late....Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-img_0657.jpg

    Seriously though dude, you seem to hate the Bucksaw more than anyone should. If someone even just has Bucksaw in their signature line you are delving into a tirade of how the bike is horrid and we should instead all buy some wonderbike that you will buy and ride for a month and sell at a loss when something with 2mm shorter chainstays or 5mm larger diameter tires comes out.

    Me thinks your Bucksaw riding buddy hands it to you frequently so you feel a need to lash out. Get a handle on your issue or join the Bucksaw club.
    '17 Cutthroat
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  29. #29
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    I love the ignore function

    What? Did you say something?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I love the ignore function


    What? Did you say something?

    I guess the truth hurts if you are resorting to covering your ears and humming loudly:

    Name:  IMG_1972.JPG
Views: 410
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    It's a very effective coping mechanism.......



    for my 4yo in preschool.
    '17 Cutthroat
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  31. #31
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    ben and paochow is like me and my russian buddy at work. wont leave each other. lol
    16 Trek Farley 5 W/2XL snowshoe
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Too late....Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0657.jpg 
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ID:	1127559

    Seriously though dude, you seem to hate the Bucksaw more than anyone should. If someone even just has Bucksaw in their signature line you are delving into a tirade of how the bike is horrid and we should instead all buy some wonderbike that you will buy and ride for a month and sell at a loss when something with 2mm shorter chainstays or 5mm larger diameter tires comes out.

    Me thinks your Bucksaw riding buddy hands it to you frequently so you feel a need to lash out. Get a handle on your issue or join the Bucksaw club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I love the ignore function

    What? Did you say something?
    What what?
    Howell, Michigan

  33. #33
    All fat, all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Too late....Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0657.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	102.0 KB 
ID:	1127559

    Seriously though dude, you seem to hate the Bucksaw more than anyone should. If someone even just has Bucksaw in their signature line you are delving into a tirade of how the bike is horrid and we should instead all buy some wonderbike that you will buy and ride for a month and sell at a loss when something with 2mm shorter chainstays or 5mm larger diameter tires comes out.

    Me thinks your Bucksaw riding buddy hands it to you frequently so you feel a need to lash out. Get a handle on your issue or join the Bucksaw club.
    Careful, those bikes better use protection or there will be baby bucksaws rolling around!!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Careful, those bikes better use protection or there will be baby bucksaws rolling around!!
    No babies being made in that position!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantTurd View Post
    No babies being made in that position!
    "Thats' just pillow talk"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Careful, those bikes better use protection or there will be baby bucksaws rolling around!!
    I was hoping for a 20" or 24" Bucksaw for my kids
    '17 Cutthroat
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  37. #37
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    What did one MTBR fat-bike poster say to the other?

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  38. #38
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    I bent a rim on one of those exact same water bars back in the 90s. I was able to undo the brake and ride it out, but that must have been a long long walk hauling the broken Bucksaw. Glad I read this thread. Was considering a BS. Maybe will take a look at a Mutz.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xylx View Post
    I bent a rim on one of those exact same water bars back in the 90s. I was able to undo the brake and ride it out, but that must have been a long long walk hauling the broken Bucksaw. Glad I read this thread. Was considering a BS. Maybe will take a look at a Mutz.
    Always good to check out the competition but I would encourage you to throw a leg over the BS as well, always best to test ride yourself and form your own opinion.
    Nothing but great reviews on the Bucksaw (other than this thread title), I'm very happy with mine and I think you'll find most Bucksaw owners would agree that it's one of the best FS fatties around.
    '07 Spec Enduro
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xylx View Post
    I bent a rim on one of those exact same water bars back in the 90s. I was able to undo the brake and ride it out, but that must have been a long long walk hauling the broken Bucksaw. Glad I read this thread. Was considering a BS. Maybe will take a look at a Mutz.
    Yeah the 15 or 16 miles pushing by bike like a wheel barrel in my biking shoes wasn't as much fun as I was anticipating the way back down would be. The good news was the mosquitoes hadn't started real bad because it was early spring. If the mosquitoes where bad I would have probably left my bike.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xylx View Post
    I bent a rim on one of those exact same water bars back in the 90s. I was able to undo the brake and ride it out, but that must have been a long long walk hauling the broken Bucksaw. Glad I read this thread. Was considering a BS. Maybe will take a look at a Mutz.
    Lenz Fatillac is not that much more than a Mutz.

  42. #42
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    Foes kinematics are pretty good(much different than 10 years ago Foes), lenz main pivot is too low to provide any decent antisquat and foes lateral stiffness is second to none, that's their priority IME. Lenz seems to prioritize nimble geometry above all else. If you think you need a long travel big tire bike, the foes is damn nice.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Foes kinematics are pretty good(much different than 10 years ago Foes), lenz main pivot is too low to provide any decent antisquat and foes lateral stiffness is second to none, that's their priority IME. Lenz seems to prioritize nimble geometry above all else. If you think you need a long travel big tire bike, the foes is damn nice.
    I second what Jayem says about the Foes, I donít know anything about a Lenz, but the Foes Mutz with the wren fork is an awesome ride. Being a big guy I donít ever feel like I am pushing my bike to hard. It is incredibly stiff and almost never bottom out the suspension.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thinking about a Bucksaw, problems with cracked frames?-20170320_202040.jpg  


  44. #44
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    The Mutz is pretty durn good, I rode mine through hell and back, any mistakes made were all on me. If you want bomber, the Mutz puts out.

    As to the Fatillac, I've ridden Miksee's and there was no issue with squat and it was at least as well behaved as the Mutz. The Lenz is easilly as burly as the Mutz.

    Agility is a big deal with a full suspension fat bike, the added bulk and weight make management tricky in the tight stuff.

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