Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589

    Think I know the answer already (tires)

    Will swapping out my Nate 27tpi for HD ultralights greatly increase my enjoyment as far as rolling resistance is concerned? I am riding desert single track (mostly hard pack), and now that I have settled on 11psi as my ideal pressure with those tires, I still can feel every single knob on those tires as they roll (especially the rear). I am starting to think they may be "too knobby" for my trails and something a little more closer knob pattern would be better. Maybe just swapping out the rear is worth it. Thoughts? Advice?
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  2. #2
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,929
    Listen to your intuition, my friend. And swap 'em both.

    27 tpi fat anything doesn't roll happy.

    Could also consider a Vee 8 or a 3.8" Knard.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    30
    If you are riding hard pack, I bet the Nates are a bit overkill. You might try something like a Knard or a Vee8 instead. I have the Vee8's and they roll great on hard pack and pavement, and the price was right too.

  4. #4
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,929
    jinx! Posted the same thing at the same time.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  5. #5
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589

    Think I know the answer already (tires)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Listen to your intuition, my friend. And swap 'em both.

    27 tpi fat anything doesn't roll happy.

    Could also consider a Vee 8 or a 3.8" Knard.
    Will either of those tires be good on loose over hard pack az trails? I thought I had heard mixed reviews on the Knards, I looked at the vee 8's and figured they would roll fast, just curious if they hold corners well. I know tire pressure plays in too. Thanks for your quick input ~

    Edit: I assume we're talking about the Vee Mission tire?
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  6. #6
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,929
    There is a Vee Mission and then there is a Vee 8. The latter looks like a small block 29er tire tread.

    On holding corners, well... no such thing as a free lunch man. Low rolling resistance and high traction are mutually exclusive.

    The Vee 8s are okay. I prefer the path of overkill traction.

    Also possible, an On One Floater? The price is right, it is similar to a Nate, just slightly less aggressive.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  7. #7
    addicted to chunk
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,914
    I've talked to a few fat bikers that started on nates, and noticed a large difference in rolling resistance going to a Hudu. Heck, the Nates are like a dirt bike tire You'll give up some traction, but except for bad mud, I've been pretty happy with the Hudu performance.
    Riding.....

  8. #8
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589

    Think I know the answer already (tires)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    There is a Vee Mission and then there is a Vee 8. The latter looks like a small block 29er tire tread.

    On holding corners, well... no such thing as a free lunch man. Low rolling resistance and high traction are mutually exclusive.

    The Vee 8s are okay. I prefer the path of overkill traction.

    Also possible, an On One Floater? The price is right, it is similar to a Nate, just slightly less aggressive.
    Got it, thanks Drew! That Vee8 looks like something I would be interested in. I love the Pugs so far, but the tires roll like the ones on my dirt bike 😄
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: winkster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    112
    For hard pack but still rocky I am enjoying the H-Billie tires. Great traction and fast rolling, tubeless ready and a good price especially 1250 grams each.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: awai04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    955
    I am running the HuDu in the front and Vee8 in the rear, and ride everything I do with my 29er. I have at least as much traction as my 'conventional' bike.
    It's not dirt in my apartment --it's Earth.

  11. #11
    Fat & Single
    Reputation: ozzybmx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,773
    Well I dont have a massive range of tyres in my rolling resistance database but i can tell you that 4.8 Buds to 4" HuDus are light and day, not sure if the extra tyre circumference is any issue or the width, but the rumble of Buds compared to the speed of HuDus is massive.... any tyre in between will be part-there-of.
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Teton29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    279
    Another good reason to switch might be weight. I definitely notice better steering/handling with lighter tires, especially at speed when the gyroscopic forces start taking over.

  13. #13
    MaverickMotoMedia.com
    Reputation: Gigantic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,328
    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    I am running the HuDu in the front and Vee8 in the rear, and ride everything I do with my 29er. I have at least as much traction as my 'conventional' bike.
    I've run a similar setup, but with a Vee Snowshoe up front. The low rolling resistance tire on the rear, combined with an aggressive front makes a formidable combo, allowing you to rail the front end and drift the rear for more agile handling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teton29er View Post
    Another good reason to switch might be weight. I definitely notice better steering/handling with lighter tires, especially at speed when the gyroscopic forces start taking over.
    +1. By switching to lighter tires, you can easily drop close to 2 pounds and by going tubeless, you can drop another 2. You will really notice the difference in pedaling and handling.
    Maverick Moto Media Motorcycles, Mountain Biking & Social Media Mgt
    Facebook Twitter Instagram

  14. #14
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589

    Think I know the answer already (tires)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    by going tubeless, you can drop another 2. You will really notice the difference in pedaling and handling.
    I just need to find reliable marge lite tubeless setup instructions somewhere. The way I have it figured is between the stock nates/stock surly toobs and switching to the v8's/q-tube ultralights I'll lose over 2.5 lbs. 4 would be great, but between the sealant and the tape and the split tube I am not sure I'd get another 1.5 lbs off? I'd love to though, I've set up tons of tires tubeless but the 65mm intimidates me.
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  15. #15
    MaverickMotoMedia.com
    Reputation: Gigantic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,328
    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    I just need to find reliable marge lite tubeless setup instructions somewhere. The way I have it figured is between the stock nates/stock surly toobs and switching to the v8's/q-tube ultralights I'll lose over 2.5 lbs. 4 would be great, but between the sealant and the tape and the split tube I am not sure I'd get another 1.5 lbs off? I'd love to though, I've set up tons of tires tubeless but the 65mm intimidates me.
    The easiest, most fool-proof method for Marge Lites, is to use Surly Clownshoes Rimstrips, no tape or additional strips needed. Take a Clownshoes Rimstrip, and use a Stans Valve to fit it properly at the valve hole. Make sure that it is evenly centered n the rim, the edges of the rim strip should extend to the edge of the rim on both sides. Remove the stan's valve and mount the tire using a tube to seat the bead- you should hear an audible "pop" as it sets on both sides. (for best results, use a tubeless compatible tire, although many 120 tpi Surly/45Nrth tires may work).

    Deflate the tube and break the bead on just one side of the tire and remove the tube. Replace the Stan's Valve on the rim, adding a dab of sealant at the rubber base of the valve stem and tighten the lock nut securely. Add 3, 2oz scoops of sealant to the inside of the tire. Remove the valve core and inflate with a compressor until the bead seats with an audible "pop". It may be necessary to use as much as 25-30 psi. After the bead seals, rotate the tire horizontally, tilting to ensure that the sealant covers the bead seat, to seal any potential leaks on both sides of the tire. Repeat for the other wheel and for best results, allow the tires to set over night at 15-20 psi. The following day, inspect the tires, checking for leaks- if they occur, re-inflate and repeat the "Stan's bounce" as needed. Set pressures to your preference and ride.

    One thing to note: because of the lack of tape, the rim strip will tend to bulge through the holes in the rims, which may be more or less pronounced, depending on tire pressure. While others may suggest running a 2nd rim strip or a layer of tape around the center of the rim, I have found this to be completely unnecessary. Both methods only add excess weight and I have found that the gorilla tape adhesive is prone to failure from exposure to sealant, causing the tires to bulge anyway. I have approximately 1300 miles on this setup since January, riding pavement, snow and singletrack, with zero failures. I have picked up a drill bit and a key in my rear tire, removed them and continued on with my ride, the Stan's sealing it up, perfectly. I've also changed my tires at approximately 1050 miles, replaced the Stan's and re-inflated, without issue. I run between 5-9psi in the snow and between 12-20 psi on pavement and dirt.
    Maverick Moto Media Motorcycles, Mountain Biking & Social Media Mgt
    Facebook Twitter Instagram

  16. #16
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,446
    Use a 24" Q Tube and split it over a Surly rimstrip or duct tape rimstrip. Trouble free.
    I like turtles

  17. #17
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589
    Well, got the Vee8's and I can say with absolute certainty that the rolling resistance is like night and day (duh, that's what I expected) and that the Vee8 IN MY TERRAIN is absolutely downright f-ing scary as a front tire, regardless of air pressure. I think I really understand "self steer" now, and I couldn't get comfortable with the front until I took it up to 12PSI (got it down to 10). I almost tasted cactus a few times trying to find where the edge was, and finally realized it doesn't exist. And 12PSI seems too "hard" to get the benefit of the fat tires.

    As I am not rich and cannot dump $100-$150 into tires after every ride, I think I am just going to have to reinstall the Nate as a front tire and see how that does. If that works ok and doesn't feel too odd, I may just do an On-One Floater to save a little weight.

    BTW, changing from the stock tires and tubes to the Vee8's and Q-Tubes took 2.5lbs off my Pugs...and it is nice. But I can't spend my whole ride obsessing over if my front tire is going to wash out in every corner like I did last night.
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,653
    wish i'd seen this tr early so you coulda bought the right tire. just spent 7 months riding v8's for all conditions, snow, dirt, rock, root, and road.

    just got some 120tpi knard 3.8's and holy $hit what a difference. no self steer even at 8 psi on 80's. the grip and cornering traction are a whole other world with the knards as well. and i saved at least a half pound per tire.

    wicked grip and roll! KNAAAAAAAAAARD!!!

    rog

  19. #19
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    wish i'd seen this tr early so you coulda bought the right tire. just spent 7 months riding v8's for all conditions, snow, dirt, rock, root, and road.

    just got some 120tpi knard 3.8's and holy $hit what a difference. no self steer even at 8 psi on 80's. the grip and cornering traction are a whole other world with the knards as well. and i saved at least a half pound per tire.

    wicked grip and roll! KNAAAAAAAAAARD!!!

    rog
    What conditions do you ride in normally Rog? I ride on a lot of hardpack (imagine kitty litter scattered on top of a glass tabletop) and I looked at the Knards and they looked like cornering grip wouldn't be much different, but who knows I also thought the Vee8 would be a good idea so my judgement is suspect. I confess I was swayed by the price on the V-8's but the $100 I saved was quickly forgotten on the first ride when I couldn't take a turn without slowing way down first. In fact that attribute is worse than the rolling resistance I was complaining about with the Nates.
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3
    I ride similar conditions as blaklabl (hardpack with sand on top in places) and I haven't been impressed with the knards. In fact, I am seeing the same issues people are seeing with the vee8s. Lots of self steer below about 12lbs and a very small fraction of the cornering traction I had with the nates.

    I thought the knards would be the perfect summer tire for me, but that wasn't the case. Lately, I have been running them at a higher pressure, but I am tempted to throw a nate back on the front and see how that goes.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,653
    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    What conditions do you ride in normally Rog? I ride on a lot of hardpack (imagine kitty litter scattered on top of a glass tabletop) and I looked at the Knards and they looked like cornering grip wouldn't be much different, but who knows I also thought the Vee8 would be a good idea so my judgement is suspect. I confess I was swayed by the price on the V-8's but the $100 I saved was quickly forgotten on the first ride when I couldn't take a turn without slowing way down first. In fact that attribute is worse than the rolling resistance I was complaining about with the Nates.
    All conditions. Knards have nice cornering knobs, v8's do not. I had no complaints with the 8's even in 4 months of snow riding, but the knards seem better everywhere so far in summer.

    rog

  22. #22
    Just A Mountain Biker.
    Reputation: blaklabl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by scrubby View Post
    but I am tempted to throw a nate back on the front and see how that goes.
    I'm going to try this and hit Sedona this weekend, I will let you know how it goes. If it is good, it might be worth getting one of the lighter Nates.
    26" isn't dead, it just got FAT



  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,653
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post

    you can easily drop close to 2 pounds and by going tubeless
    how do you figure?

    q-lites are only 250+- grams. tubeless requires tape or a split tube then what 6oz (200 grams) of sealant per tire? i'd say the average tubeless vs q-lites aren't that much different. sure you may pinch flat with tubes, but you get a flat with tubeless, you have a sealant mess on yer hands and you still may hafta throw a tube in.

    rog

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    223
    Throw a Husker-Du on the front. Don't feel bad about having two Vee8s, they work fine on the back and back tires wear out faster. I'm liking Husker-Du on the front and Knard on the rear.

  25. #25
    MaverickMotoMedia.com
    Reputation: Gigantic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,328
    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    how do you figure?

    q-lites are only 250+- grams. tubeless requires tape or a split tube then what 6oz (200 grams) of sealant per tire? i'd say the average tubeless vs q-lites aren't that much different. sure you may pinch flat with tubes, but you get a flat with tubeless, you have a sealant mess on yer hands and you still may hafta throw a tube in.

    rog
    The thing with tubeless is if you get a puncture, most often, the sealant will stop the leak with minimal loss of fluid or air and keep you rolling. Try that with a tube.
    Tubes: Pinch Flats, Punctures, increased rolling resistance, decreased feel, more weight. My tubeless requires little additional weight beyond 174 grams of sealant, I'm running marge lites with surly Clown Shoe rim strips, no tape. I've put +1300 miles on them since Feb without failure.
    Tubeless: no Pinch Flats, no Punctures, decreased rolling resistance, increased feel less weight.
    the benefits are obvious. I've gotten multiple punctures with my tubeless setup and have yet to use a tube; in fact, I've stopped carrying spares because so far, they're just added weight. The last fat bike I had wasn't set up tubeless and left me either pumping a spare or walking 7 miles back home from the trailhead.
    Maverick Moto Media Motorcycles, Mountain Biking & Social Media Mgt
    Facebook Twitter Instagram

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. So answer me this...
    By memine in forum Niner Bikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-02-2014, 01:59 PM
  2. Nvm I got my answer
    By LukeSkywalker in forum SRAM
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-06-2013, 02:08 PM
  3. How would you answer this?
    By schnauzers in forum Passion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-03-2013, 07:29 PM
  4. looking for deal on answer pro taper and answer dh one stem
    By david8613 in forum Where are the Best Deals?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-11-2011, 11:25 AM
  5. Answer me this...
    By bug-rex in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 02-10-2011, 08:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •