Switching out Loops for Woodchippers on pugs...UPDATE & Pics!
I am planning on switching out my Jones Loop bars for a summer setup of Woodchippers on my Necro Pugs with Endos. I have stock avid BB7s & levers, along with stock thumbies. I picked up a pair of Tektro long pull RL520s with hoods for the brakes but planned on just using the Thumbies and not switching them over to anything else, I figure thumbies work as well as barcons would as far as needing to move your hand to shift.
Plus, I am lazy
My brake cables do not have any extra hanging off the ends by the brakes like my Casseroll with cantilever brakes does. So I think unless my new setup is shorter(and I don't think it will be), I think I need new cables? Is this right? And do I just need the internal metal cable and not the jagwire outer? It looks like I have enough outer to tape on the bars and have free spin of the handlebars, I just think the metal cable will likey be a tad too short as it looks like my new levers are about an inch longer from barrel to cable end.
Speaking of which.....where does the cable barrel go in the setup? Inside the hood? Under the bar? In my pocket? Lol!
Not planning on doing this until the weather dries out and summer gets all hot, so I have time still. I just want to have everything I need so I can do it all at once. I hate it when a bike is outta commission for parts.
Last edited by Nakedbabytoes; 04-06-2013 at 08:00 AM.
Down South Yooper
You may want to look into some retroshift levers. You can use them with your microshift levers and bb7 brakes, so win there.
If you put drops into the same stem you're using for flat/riser/jones bars, your reach will probably be longer by 5-6cm (2-2.5 inches), plus you'll likely want them higher so that the drops are useable.
Plan on new cables and housing. Drop bars typically have brake housing under the tape, plus the relocated microshifters will likely need longer runs to fit them. Plus, drop bar levers require different cable ends than typical MTB brake levers. Also, double check that your microshift thumbies will fit the bar diameter for the drops if you want to stick with those. The retroshift will be much more convenient IMHO, I'm running them on my cross bike.
As for barrel adjusters, you have 1 on the rear mech, and you can get inline ones for the other runs. Unless you have bolt on type guides with the adjusters in them, then you're already set. You may be able to do without them FWIW.
This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!
Already have a new stem, so reach is accommodated when the switch happens. I have 3 spacers on my steerer that should allow enough rise to make the drops usable(my seat is already below my Loops anyways, with stem slammed low and spacers high).
The clamps on my thumbies have enough adjustment in them to work with the drop bars, so fit should be fine. I really am not interested in switching them out to something else. Pretty set on using the stock shifters on both bar combos.
I got the kindof levers that supposedly work with MTB disk brake cable ends(Tektro 520s). Correct me if I am mistaken, as I don't wanna buy the wrong thing. Can I just get internals or will I need cable & housing? I have read the jag wire stuff is hard to cut, being braided and coated, recs on correct cutter?
I could take this to my fave LBS but honestly, if this is going to be a twice a year swap, I'd rather get the tools and knowledge I need to do it myself. Thanks for the help
Generally, cables are a disposable (one use only) item. Normally, the brake or derailleur end is fixed in some sort of pinch bolt which kinks and/or crushes the cable, sometimes so badly that you can't pull it through the housing. Cable housing is more often left on the bike when the cables are replaced. But once dirt and crud get inside the housing, its best to replace it.
That being said, replacing the cables and housing once a year or so is usually a good idea. Dirt gets in, and performance decreases, though it does so slowly so you don't usually notice. At least until you put on new cables and housing and see the difference!
Remember that brake and shift housing are different and cannot be interchanged. Also, brake and shift cables are different and cannot be interchanged.
Most bike shops buy housing in bulk rolls and will sell it by the foot. This is probably the cheapest and best way to go for you. As far as cables are concerned, there are many grades available. If I were in your situation, I would just be sure that they are stainless steel, not the cheaper galvanized ones which can corrode. You'll usually have to replace the ferrules (cable end fittings) and cable end crimp as well. And of course you can buy cables in sets that include the housing, cables, and fittings that you will normally need.
There is a good article by the late Sheldon Brown that has a lot of good info, though it won't be cable disc brake focused. Cables
And get a set of bike specific cable cutters; they make a cleaner cut than a wire cutter from a hardware store, and they usually have an area on them that lets you squeeze the cut end back into a round shape. I have Shimano ones that I like, but there are lots of different ones available.
One last tip is that you can sometimes reuse a rear brake or shift cable (or piece of housing) on the front if it is in good condition since the front run is so much shorter! HTH.
can I borrow your Loops while you're not using them? I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a pair. I'm in Lincoln.
Joe, that is one awesome post and the cable reference page was exactly what I needed to read up on. My shop is pretty cool about helping me out when I have needed stuff, so I think I have what I need to give it a go on a Saturday morning, and knowing they are open until 5pm if I run across needing more cable or get in over my head, is probably the way to go. Worse comes to worse, I take it in.
Ben, I'm not changing out for a while yet. Loops do indeed, rock the schizzle though. I don't regret mine in any way, I just want to run a "been hot for weeks and it's dry as a bone" road type cruiser setup. Since switching out my stock fork to a lefty, it put my front end up higher, with the Loops it was fine in slow winter sloshy riding but for summer, I think the upright geo will dry me nuts! The idea with the drops is to get my hands back down for a bit faster riding. Probably not until June at this rate.....geeze can we get decent warmth around here?!
I run full length housings and leave the full set of cables on the bars. Makes it easier to switch them back if I feel like it. I can switch my Monocog from SS with FU bars to Dirt Drops with either SS or 9 speed in a few minutes.
The switch has been made!
My cables were in excellent condition and the end caps slid right off and the cable ends weren't deformed, length in brake lever actually ended up being shorter than before, so I actually have about 3" extra(original 2 plus the new excess!) So I left the extra length on the end for next winter swap back to loops and Avid levers.
I used regular Woodchippers, Bethany1 set me up with an extra pair she had, they are the wider variety but put my hands about the same width apart as my Jones did, only dropped down of course! So really, it was a non issue. I have always felt stretched out in the stock stem, so I also got an Azonic shorty stem. Now that, I really like! I ran it on my Loops while waiting for my brake levers to come(Tektro 520s). I kept and used the stock thumbies but rotated them sideways and they work pretty slick(dare I say, slicker than upright near my avids!) I use my fingers mainly to shift, which is like my integrated Casseroll levers so it actually makes sense to my tiny brain Switched back to my Endos, that might be a bigger issue. I have always liked them, they corner well for me but the rolling resistance compared to the BFLs is noticeable! So much so, that I stopped a few times on my test ride because I thought maybe a had a brake pad rubbing! Eek....
But overall, I liked the change. Just not sure about the tires
Are my hoods down too low? Is my bar rotated right? I plan on wrapping the shifter lever cables under the wrap later today anyways, on my test ride they just kept rubbing my pinky finger, drove me nuts!
We need pictures...
What are the TPI of the BFLs and Endos?
Sorry, pushed enter too soon for pics in first post...oops!
Originally Posted by vikb
BFL is 120. Endo is 27.
The bike looks great....interesting configuration. As for bar/hood position only you can tell what's right. I've seen the oddest setups on folks' rando bikes and they happily pedal them all day and more! I would just keep riding and tweaking until you feel 100% about it.
Originally Posted by Nakedbabytoes
It's the 27 TPI part that's the problem not the fact that it's an Endo that makes it slow. I find my Endos roll great, but they are higher TPI units.
That's why I won't touch a low TPI tire for my bikes. It isn't worth the cost savings to squander my limited leg power on a stiff tire.
Babytoes, did the stock thumbies slide right onto the bars? If so, that is pretty awesome. I may try that on some dirt drops myself.
I rode 16 this morning and other than pinky rub in the tops from the cable, they felt pretty much right. I think if I moved the levers upwards on the bar, I wouldn't be able to reach the brakes in the drops(small hands!) but compared to other MTB drop pics I found, mine are low(or my bar is tilted just a bit too far frontwards/down). But the lefty adds a steeper geo in the front, so it feels weird tilted "correct".
See, now tire wise, here is the issue. My BFLs were used before I got them. If I put them back on and train with them until August, there is no way they will last me to race day(and on race day). So do I train with my Endos and slap the BFLs on a short time before and get used to them on the gravel roads(I have issues with turning and camber slide outs with them, although I am getting better) and race with them OR do I put back on my BFLs, train with them and wear them out....buying a new set a few weeks before OR do I buy something else entirely?
I did need to widen the clamp gap just a tad with a flathead screwdriver, but not enough that I couldn't still use the bolts that came with them. And I used grease on the bar and clamp just to be on the safe side, slid right on. No issues.
Originally Posted by vaultbrad
Switching out from Loops to Woodchipper drops, new brake cables?
Only you can determine if the lever and bar positions work for you. I will not wrap a bar until I have it right.
Originally Posted by Nakedbabytoes
I would not wrap the shifter cables under the tape. Adds friction and will make a very odd transition at the lever. If you can not get the cable out of the way, add V-brake noodles at the levers.
The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
I adjusted the hoods up on the bars towards the top AND then rotated the bars downward a bit, making the drops parallel to the ground. Mucho betta! Re wrapped it all, took it for a spin and me likey I think we have a winner!
And I decided to train with the Endos and decide once the race gets closer what I want to do. I have a lot of time to dial it in, no reason to worry just yet! I would rather train with heavy tires(like you train with heavier running shoes) and then on race day, you bust out the racing flats and energy bars and feel like you can fly! Okay, maybe not that major but I need to put some miles on what I have currently.
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