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  1. #1
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    Surly Pugsley Complete vs. Salsa Mukluk Complete... few questions

    Well, one main question: It appears that the Mukluk is a nicer bike than the Pugsley. So how is it priced $50 less at MSRP?

    The second question: is there a snowball's chance in hell of even getting a Mukluk before the end of the winter? I've been down this road before with Salsa in trying to get a Vaya, waiting months and months and months, and ending up with a Surly LHT because the Vayas were on backorder out the wazoo.

    Third question: Not meant to be sarcastic, but in case I'm missing something- if you had a choice, why would you choose the Pugsley over the Mukluk?

    My main beef with the Pugsley is the horizontal dropout, as I always plan to run it geared, and I like Salsa's dual rear spacing setup.

    Confused...

  2. #2
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    Hi there, My friend at Eurobike was told the Surly will be cheaper than the Salsa?, mmm dunno why then?
    looking at the two its like the Surly is the base line model and cheaper- but not any worse for it,
    and the Salsa a higher spec build, maybe cause the pugsley has a loyal following despite real nice frames from other manufacturers since...

    dont worry about the pugs rear drop outs, not that fiddly ,just need to get used to them
    the muckluk is ideal if you want 29er rims to have 2 in 1 bikes having inline wheels and the Pugsleys price will swing it for some folk who only want to buy a winter bike cheaper bike on a budget,

    pugsley is steel, Muckluk is alloy, again preferences there,

    pugsley is a proven design the Muckluck isnt

    but both will be fun to ride

    i just wonder if the Pugsley will be imported to the UK cause the Muckluk apparrently isnt, i know at least 20 folk here in the UK who want one...nothing to do with me and would proberly prefer to buy a cheap complete bike for around $1500 which will equate to about the same in ús here,

    which would i buy? alloy for beachriding for makes sense for sure,but my steel pugsley fits me like a glove...and is real comfy
    im wanting to build a 2nd fatbike really light for xc riding next year and like those new Surly rims , but reckon it will be a 9zero7 alloy frame with carbon fork for me
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
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    My confusion as far as price stems from Surly saying the Pugsley complete will be $1550 USD, while Salsa says the Mukluk complete will be $1500 USD.

    Salsa's supposed to be the premium brand, Surly the budget brand, usually there is more of a price difference.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX
    ...
    Third question: Not meant to be sarcastic, but in case I'm missing something- if you had a choice, why would you choose the Pugsley over the Mukluk?
    ...
    My interest in a fatbike was concretized through the Mukluk. After digging through a lot of stuff on the internet I chose a Pugsley for the following reasons: I wanted to run an Alfine hub, which pretty much meant the Pugsley and I really like that the Pugsley can use ordinary 135 mm hubs. The fact that the front and rear wheel are interchangeable is also nice, but hardly a deal breaker.

    If you only want to run conventional gears the Mukluk is probably the better one. An aluminium frame seems better for winter and beach riding and is lighter as well. The probability is IMO very high that Salsa has done their homework with the Mukluk and as such it might be a better bike (geometry, handling, etc) than the Pugsley. And the Mukluk has bottle mounts on the fork by default, something everybody should have.

    Now, the probability that I would get a complete Mukluk to my part of the world before spring is probably close to zero. My Pugsley frame arrived a few days ago, two weeks after it was ordered.
    My bike blog: www.yetirides.com

  5. #5
    Harmonius Wrench
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    As of right now, if you have not pre-ordered a Mukluk, you won't get it this winter. The demand for the Mukluk complete has overwhelmed Salsa and I have heard that for people that have already pre-ordered, there will be a lot of folks waiting till February before they see a fat bike with a Salsa downtube decal. The bum rush for this bike has been astounding, from all accounts I have heard from dealers.

    That leaves you with a Surly Pugsley complete, (that is, if you want to ride this winter), and with that pricing, I am betting it will also sell through pretty quickly. If you are on the fence, ya better get off sooner than later, or I've a feeling Pugsleys will end up like the Mukluks.

    I say this, because the price is pretty aggressive. I don't know that you can build from a frame and get anywhere near that sort of price in the end for a complete.

    I am also willing to bet that Mukluks will be more expensive soon. Demand for the bike far outstrips supply. Hmm.......something about this reminds me of economics class......

  6. #6
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    Freaking Salsa. I swear they do this on purpose, the severe lack of product- I mean I know having more demand than product is good to build buzz, but when people can't get bikes for months and months and months, that just sucks. I thought maybe after the Vaya's shitstorm of backorders they would have made it a little easier for people to buy their bikes.

  7. #7
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX
    Freaking Salsa. I swear they do this on purpose, the severe lack of product- I mean I know having more demand than product is good to build buzz, but when people can't get bikes for months and months and months, that just sucks. I thought maybe after the Vaya's shitstorm of backorders they would have made it a little easier for people to buy their bikes.
    Well, it is hard to predict demand. Salsa (nor Surly up until now) had ever had a complete snow bike in the line up. No data from dealers, no real idea of market support. (Not in hard numbers, at any rate)

    One dealer I talked to said he has about three times the pre-orders he would have liberally predicted going in.

    There's always surprises in marketing a new bicycle or concept for using a bicycle, (Fargo, Vaya). I wouldn't have predicted the interest in drop bar 29"ers, for instance, that there is. No way. but I get tons of hits and contacts regarding the subject.

    I think Salsa finds itself hitting a lot of "buttons" that people are responding to in greater numbers than anyone could have imagined. One of the good examples of not hitting it, (from a Salsa standpoint), is the El Go-Go, the tri/time trial bike they did, that was a total flop.

    So, its just one of those things, I think. salsa just happens to have "hit a home run" a time or two lately, and the Mukluk is another one.

  8. #8
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    Fair enough. I think I will go with your theory, as it makes them not seem evil

  9. #9
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    I do not see any complete Pugsley bike at http://surlybikes.com/bikes/. Where did you find this?

    As far as I know, there are no studded fat tires. How are the fat bikes really doing on ice and hardpacked, icy surface?
    Haavard

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvrdberger
    I do not see any complete Pugsley bike at http://surlybikes.com/bikes/. Where did you find this?
    http://surlybikes.com/blog/2386/

    Quote Originally Posted by hvrdberger
    As far as I know, there are no studded fat tires. How are the fat bikes really doing on ice and hardpacked, icy surface?
    I'll leave someone who owns one to answer this But I have seen pictures of homemade studded tires on fatbikes

  11. #11
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    Studded Larry!

    Seems like someone studded the Larries:

    Studded Larry!

    Show me your studded Larry!
    Haavard

  12. #12
    @adelorenzo
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    I'm thinking part of the problem could be that snow bikes run opposite the normal product cycle. Demand is high right now, whereas for most bikes it is six months from now.

    I know our shop has had a hell of a time getting Pugsleys, rims and tires. They tend to become available in February when nobody wants them.

  13. #13
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    I'd like to buy a Mukluk/Pugsley in February! Unfortunately I have little space for fifth bike now...
    Haavard

  14. #14
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    I'm worried about tyres now the world and his wife seems to want a mukluk.

    Me I want a fatback ti :-)

  15. #15
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    does anyone actually know the part spec on the pugs complete? I think that would be a bigger influence on price. If nothing else the Large Marge's are spendier than the shebas

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo
    I'm thinking part of the problem could be that snow bikes run opposite the normal product cycle. Demand is high right now, whereas for most bikes it is six months from now.

    I know our shop has had a hell of a time getting Pugsleys, rims and tires. They tend to become available in February when nobody wants them.
    I bought mine in February. Feb & Mar are still prime time winter in my neck of the woods. Although I have a FS Mtbike also, I do ride the Pugs quite a bit year round!
    From Snow Biking 2010


    From Fat Bike Misc.

  17. #17
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    If demand is as strong as people are indicating I think you'll see prices rise in the short term until other manufacturers get on the bandwagon and start to produce fatbikes. Look for Trek to notice that this is a profitable market. In five years we'll be seeing $200 fatbikes in WalMart. LOL

  18. #18
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    I bet Fatbacks and 907s don't have the wait times listed above and both those shops have shipped stuff all over the world. Both also make very reasonably priced versions.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    I bet Fatbacks and 907s don't have the wait times listed above and both those shops have shipped stuff all over the world. Both also make very reasonably priced versions.
    Unless something has changed, Wildfire's website says their complete bikes start at $2500. And the 907 alum frame is $499, which is basically the Pugsley frame price, so much like the Pugsley unless I patiently scoured various online bike shops and eBay for parts, I am not too sure I'd be able to build one for $1500. That plus I don't have the time what with my family life and work to build a bike so I'd have to pay for labor anyway.

  20. #20
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    XJaredX, I used the FatBack as my other example and not the Wildfire Fatbike. You are probably correct that you couldn't build either the 907 or FatBack for $1500 but from what it sounds like reading earlier in this thread you won't be able to gat a Mukluck for a long time. I was just trying to point out that there are relatively inexpensive alternatives that are available without he long wait. If they don't work for you I hope something else will. Good Luck

  21. #21
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    I've seen both the FatBack and the 907 built up with price tags for around 1800-1900 that are ready to go at their respective bike shops. Call up Speedway or CRC to see what they can do for you if you just can't wait just to save a few hundred bucks.

  22. #22
    will rant for food
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    I will provide an unfortunate echo here... I have a spreadsheet of a fat bike parts list, with a few frames as options. I could build up a single speed fat bike for about $1350, assuming I already have a truing stand and can lace up a wheel, and hit up every deal possible.

  23. #23
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    I really like the looks of the Salsa. The prices they're asking for both the Salsa and Surly are hard to resist, seeing that I had my "budget" Pugsley built in March for close to 1800. I love my Pugs and have said I'd never look at another snow bike. Damn you Salsa! I have a 20 year old Ala Carte, so have been a Salsa enthusiast for a long time, at least the exclusive hand built bike from California. They're still great quality bikes, however, I'm really surprised by the aluminum. They were hardcore cromoly manufacturers forever and have changed their stance on materials (titanium, aluminum, etc). This is not a complaint, but I am surprised by it. I'd like to try a Mukluk out some time.

  24. #24
    bikeboatbrewski
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    I want a Pugsley.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    XJaredX, I used the FatBack as my other example and not the Wildfire Fatbike. You are probably correct that you couldn't build either the 907 or FatBack for $1500 but from what it sounds like reading earlier in this thread you won't be able to gat a Mukluck for a long time. I was just trying to point out that there are relatively inexpensive alternatives that are available without he long wait. If they don't work for you I hope something else will. Good Luck

    Oops, yeah didn't know that existed haha. Even though the banner ad is at the top of every thread in this forum.

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