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  1. #1
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    SURLY KramPug 29+ thread...

    Surly Pugsley with 2 sizes of wheels- 4" and 29+, Two bikes in one!
    Post up pics of your Surly Pugsleys with offset Rabbit Hole 3" tyre 29+ wheel sets
    Your views and opinions on the ride etc...

    Heres mine. First in the UK, probably Europe..

    KramPug NB Law 005 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 007 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 008 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 009 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 011 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 014 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 016 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    KramPug NB Law 019 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    The BB height is now an inch higher, but the ride is still like a Pugsley - comfortable, predictable, and fun. Now it rolls a lot more and feels great on the dry summer trails we have this now here in S.E Scotland. The higher BB height means i can fit regular 2.35 mud tyres without too much worry of pedal strike, and with the singlespeed it will be a great winter bike for my local woods.


    KramPug NB Law 030 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    So a new lease of life for the old frame that was Scotlands first Pugsley

    Some words here on the blog how this bike came to be; coastrider: SURLY KramPug... Meet The New Boss... Same As The Old Boss...

    And some film...

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tVPEo3m4wRo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by coastkid71; 07-01-2015 at 03:04 PM.
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  2. #2
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    Nice! So, you must have what now, 4 or 5 fatbikes in your stable?
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  3. #3
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    nice pictures!

  4. #4
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    4 SURLYs, KM 29 with 3x9, Moonlander, Pugsley, and the Krampug

    Another Pugsley is on pre order for next year . But if i say what it is Eric from SURLY says he will fly over and shoot me...
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
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    Geez a shottie of your back wheel till I see if it will fit the 907, ta !
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
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  6. #6
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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    Very cool. I've been thinking of doing this.

    Let's see some others! I know there are more out there. I seem to remember a cool lime green themed one that was posted a while back.

  7. #7
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    So...how do you like the Krampug?
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  8. #8
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    Interesting….. I was thinking about doing a new wheelset on mine and this is very tantalizing!
    My motorcycle runs on infant blood

  9. #9
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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    Dug these pictures up, courtesy of murphy87. Cool bike.








  10. #10
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    CK...

    Wonder how the handling would be with...say a 4" knard in the rear with a 65mm rim?

    Should slacken the head angle about a degree, still gain a little BB height, and a little more 'cush' at the rear for comfort. Hopefully, the size difference between F&R would not be too noticeable. (The 29+ knard has a narrower but longer contact patch over the 4" knard...but the difference between them...?)

    Then, I wonder how that result would compare to the Krampus with the pugs' shorter wheelbase?

  11. #11
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    my krampug lefty

    SURLY KramPug thread...-1004434_10200255004492158_1662771710_n.jpgSURLY KramPug thread...-1005060_10200255004212151_1987985135_n.jpg

    only thing I have to assamble is a chainguide for my 1x9 gear, looking for the right one.

  12. #12
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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    ^ Awesome!

  13. #13
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    Awesome! Question - how did the offset build with the Rabbit Hole rims? Is the spoke tension decent? ALso, I assume those are Mendon clamps up front for the Lefty?

    Thinking I'll sell off my UMA70/Hudo wheelset and go with a set like that for the summer. That looks killer cool.

  14. #14
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    Hey Kid;

    Or anyone else running a similar 29x3 setup. I'm interested in the ride qualities. I'm riding my Fatties rear round, as a regular all-mountain bike on the same terrain I always ride, and am finding the lack of sprung suspension to be little if any problem. The big tires are doing the job quite nicely in most cases and I'm having more fun than on my RIP9. I'm wondering how much of a trade off dropping to a 3" tire is in terms of ride quality? Will I lose enough "suspension travel" to miss the full fatness with this near fat setup?

    Cool setup by the by...
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  15. #15
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    krampug lefty

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrstein View Post
    Awesome! Question - how did the offset build with the Rabbit Hole rims? Is the spoke tension decent? ALso, I assume those are Mendon clamps up front for the Lefty?

    Thinking I'll sell off my UMA70/Hudo wheelset and go with a set like that for the summer. That looks killer cool.
    The wheelbuild was easy, like a normal wheel. so no problem. spoke tension is good, so decent.
    Yes the clamps are the excelent work of Mendon!
    greetz
    miesj
    miesj

    create your own FAT path 2 succes, don't just follow others

  16. #16
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    Looks like an awesome extension to the versatility of the Pugsley!

    I had a look at the geometry charts and a Medium size KramPug has the BB 5 mm higher, 1° steeper front, 46.6 mm shorter wheelbase and 2 mm longer chainstays compared to the Krampus. The differences are large enough to affect handling for sure, but in theory it looks to me like the KramPug should still handle like a proper bike. Another fork with more rake might come into question to compensate for the elongated trail.

    What are your thoughts and possible experiences regarding the differences between the Krampus and KramPug?

  17. #17
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    Last edited by ~gomez~; 06-25-2013 at 06:52 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Thanks for the numbers! I was getting ready to dive into the geo charts myself...

    In the case of a Lefty Krampug, the fork offset should be around 45mm as opposed to the stock Pug fork at 38mm... And with the Mendon clamps and a bit of wheel dishing you could increase take quite a bit more. That'll get the trail number where the Krampus is. I don't think we'll get to the same wheelbase as the Krampus but that may not matter.

    The cool thing about the Krampug is the ability to do full 2x or even 3x gearing without hassle...

  19. #19
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    Quick review after a weeks riding...

    After a weeks holidays riding the KramPug here is what i have found...

    It is Awesome!


    JM Park 009 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    The 29+ 3" wheel/tyre set up are exactly inbetween a 4" fat tyre bike (for myself a Pugsley) and a 29er tyre bike (for myself a Karate Monkey) as expected, but you get no bob as you do on trails with 4" fat, and more comfort than a regular 29er 2.5" tyre...

    The Knards are great on this UK summers drought conditions.
    As with a Pugsley when i first got one i first ran the tyres too hard and have now aired them down a bit over the last week until i found an ideal pressure - around 18 -20 PSI,

    I rode through wet mud passing a potato field irrigator and the tyres clogged and were terrible, but we know tht already with the Knards being a dry tyre (UK spelling) so that was expected,

    BUT, heres the KramPug trump card; cause of the 1" higher BB you could fit regular 2.25" 29er mud tyres and still have ok BB height/pedal clearance
    I had GATO GEAX wire bead 2.25" tyres on my Karate Monkey and will fit these for winter. With the clean running 32x18 singlespeed drive chain i will have a great winter trails bike which i can still lower the tyre pressure down to 20 psi with the 50mm rims...

    Until we get a 3" Nate you cannot do this to a SURLY Krampus...

    A set of these wheels on a Pugsley for regular trails is a no brainer,
    The Pugsley is faster, tracks straight, rides through twisting single track way quicker, and picks up speed quicker than a 4" tyre regular Pugsey wheelset...

    Here in the UK there is a differant ideal to Fatbikes to the USA. There is a a big thing about weight, yet still sticking to 4" tyres.
    This includes UK Trail Centres, something i personaly don`t get, why i have a 29er which is way faster and jumps better,

    For dragging fat bikes up mountains, i found the rebound at speed on descents the problem, these tyres are the perfect half way house between 4" fat and 2.5" 29er - no bob but more comfort than 29er...

    I would say unless your riding sandy trails and the beach, or Peat Moorland conditions why drag 4" tyres around?,

    For most conditions the 50mm rim/3" Knard set up is way more fun, and defo the future,
    I am buying a new Pugsley next year and after riding these wheels in singlespeed will be getting a geared rear set up with HOPE hubs for thenew Pugsley to have a great bike with the best of both worlds
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    BUT, heres the KramPug trump card; cause of the 1" higher BB you could fit regular 2.25" 29er mud tyres and still have ok BB height/pedal clearance
    I had GATO GEAX wire bead 2.25" tyres on my Karate Monkey and will fit these for winter. With the clean running 32x18 singlespeed drive chain i will have a great winter trails bike which i can still lower the tyre pressure down to 20 psi with the 50mm rims...

    Until we get a 3" Nate you cannot do this to a SURLY Krampus...
    I'm confused. The geo charts show 5 mm difference in BB drop between the Krampus and Pugsley frames, which is about 1/5 inches. With any given wheels and tires you'd install on a Krampus or Pugsley, the BB on the former should be only 5 mm lower.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    I'm confused. The geo charts show 5 mm difference in BB drop between the Krampus and Pugsley frames, which is about 1/5 inches. With any given wheels and tires you'd install on a Krampus or Pugsley, the BB on the former should be only 5 mm lower.
    If I follow correctly, think BB height, not drop.

    Assuming Larry tires on the pugs = 741 dia. vs 773 for the 29+ = 16mm higher BB add a few more due to the difference in tire pressures run?

    At least that is how I read it.

  22. #22
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    Its calling to me...fixie Krampug...
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    If I follow correctly, think BB height, not drop.

    Assuming Larry tires on the pugs = 741 dia. vs 773 for the 29+ = 16mm higher BB add a few more due to the difference in tire pressures run?

    At least that is how I read it.
    When using the same wheels and tires, BB drop difference = BB height difference.

  24. #24
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    The ~32mm BB height difference is due to jump from 4" tires to 29+.

    http://surlybikes.com//uploads/downl...Geometries.pdf
    Safe riding,

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    I am buying a new Pugsley next year and after riding these wheels in singlespeed will be getting a geared rear set up with HOPE hubs for thenew Pugsley to have a great bike with the best of both worlds
    Why you don't buy a Krampus? What you find better on Pugs than Krampus?

  26. #26
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    Wow - 3 Pugs? That's some dedication to a bike!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  27. #27
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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    After a weeks holidays riding the KramPug here is what i have found...

    It is Awesome!


    JM Park 009 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    The 29+ 3" wheel/tyre set up are exactly inbetween a 4" fat tyre bike (for myself a Pugsley) and a 29er tyre bike (for myself a Karate Monkey) as expected, but you get no bob as you do on trails with 4" fat, and more comfort than a regular 29er 2.5" tyre...

    The Knards are great on this UK summers drought conditions.
    As with a Pugsley when i first got one i first ran the tyres too hard and have now aired them down a bit over the last week until i found an ideal pressure - around 18 -20 PSI,

    I rode through wet mud passing a potato field irrigator and the tyres clogged and were terrible, but we know tht already with the Knards being a dry tyre (UK spelling) so that was expected,

    BUT, heres the KramPug trump card; cause of the 1" higher BB you could fit regular 2.25" 29er mud tyres and still have ok BB height/pedal clearance
    I had GATO GEAX wire bead 2.25" tyres on my Karate Monkey and will fit these for winter. With the clean running 32x18 singlespeed drive chain i will have a great winter trails bike which i can still lower the tyre pressure down to 20 psi with the 50mm rims...

    Until we get a 3" Nate you cannot do this to a SURLY Krampus...

    A set of these wheels on a Pugsley for regular trails is a no brainer,
    The Pugsley is faster, tracks straight, rides through twisting single track way quicker, and picks up speed quicker than a 4" tyre regular Pugsey wheelset...

    Here in the UK there is a differant ideal to Fatbikes to the USA. There is a a big thing about weight, yet still sticking to 4" tyres.
    This includes UK Trail Centres, something i personaly don`t get, why i have a 29er which is way faster and jumps better,

    For dragging fat bikes up mountains, i found the rebound at speed on descents the problem, these tyres are the perfect half way house between 4" fat and 2.5" 29er - no bob but more comfort than 29er...

    I would say unless your riding sandy trails and the beach, or Peat Moorland conditions why drag 4" tyres around?,

    For most conditions the 50mm rim/3" Knard set up is way more fun, and defo the future,
    I am buying a new Pugsley next year and after riding these wheels in singlespeed will be getting a geared rear set up with HOPE hubs for thenew Pugsley to have a great bike with the best of both worlds
    Oh man, this is not what I needed to hear. Cha-ching! Better start saving now.

    Thanks for the write up!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The ~32mm BB height difference is due to jump from 4" tires to 29+.

    http://surlybikes.com//uploads/downl...Geometries.pdf
    Yes, which means that the BB height of a Pugsley increases 32 mm when switching to RH rims and 29+ Knards. The difference more in the tires than the frames.

    But Coastkid71 wrote:
    "cause of the 1" higher BB you could fit regular 2.25" 29er mud tyres and still have ok BB height/pedal clearance"
    "Until we get a 3" Nate you cannot do this to a SURLY Krampus."

    I think you can: the BB will be only 5 mm lower than it is on a Pugsley with the same tire/wheel combo, in this case regular 29er wheels and tires.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Yes, which means that the BB height of a Pugsley increases 32 mm when switching to RH rims and 29+ Knards.
    32 mm is the diameter difference. The BB height is increased 16 mm (0.63"), ie. the radius, when fitting RH rims and 29+ Knards on Pug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    I think you can: the BB will be only 5 mm lower than it is on a Pugsley with the same tire/wheel combo, in this case regular 29er wheels and tires.
    Agreed.

  30. #30
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    Just remeasured both pugs and my estimated Inch higher BB height is 26mm to be precise on the KramPug to stock Pug, both same Pugsley frame models etc...
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Just remeasured both pugs and my estimated Inch higher BB height is 26mm to be precise on the KramPug to stock Pug, both same Pugsley frame models etc...
    He he. Goes to show numbers and spreadsheets online aren't always right then

    Surly need to correct their PDF tyre sizes file if the Knards are a whole 2" (52mm) taller than Larrys.

  32. #32
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    Wouldn't the height of the bike depend on the air-pressure? Because the Larrys are generally run at lower pressures, wouldn't that translate to a lower BB--even though the tires might be measured larger. It could be they measure the tires at a standard PSI and NOT mounted on a bike (which might mean no compression of the tire).

    Just a thought...

  33. #33
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    Good point jonlikesbikes, it seems once they are up to riding pressure then leaning the bike up against say a wall they have the same height. But don`t quote me on that!.

    Rim width of course effects tyre wall height - and i forgot to mention my Pugsley has 65mm Marges with Larry`s, i think Nates are taller due to the Knobs...

    When i said `trump card of the Pug compared to the Krampus` i meant that while 29x 2.25 mud tyres on the KramPug is possible without slamming the BB height, It is obvious that fitting the same tyres to a Krampus will lower the BB than is standard.
    Maybe that will not make an issue with pedal strike if it is indeed quite a high BB as standard.
    If you can notice the differance between say 170mm cranks and 175mm cranks on the same bike then maybe it will be, maybe it wont!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  34. #34
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    Another KramPug film

    Out again the other evening. The bike now has flat pedals and wider 750mm bars. the two tweeks seem to have sharpened it`s teeth a bit

    It has become a bit more lively on the single track above the coast, a bit like my KM which has an offset headset that slackens its head angle to the same as a Pugsley, but more roll and comfort,

    Only had some wee spins on a Krampus but its close...

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ba9eqXvBqUY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason-l View Post
    Surly need to correct their PDF tyre sizes file if the Knards are a whole 2" (52mm) taller than Larrys.
    My Larry on a RD = ~730mm [Surly's chart = 741mm]

    My Knard on a RH = ~760mm [Surly's chart = 773mm]

    So my difference = ~30mm [no weight on bike]

    Based on Surly's chart the difference would be 32mm.
    Safe riding,

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  36. #36
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    I wonder if the rabbit hole / Knard combo will fit on my 907 fork...hummm.....

  37. #37
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    When I was out on my 907 yesterday I was wondering if a 29er+ Knard setup would be better on the dry hard trails.

    I had inflated my tyres to about 14psi which meant there was very little squish and it felt much better speed wise, but not as good cornering fast on loose gravel. Which set me to thinking about how maybe the Knards would have better grip than fat tyres inflated hard.

    Now that I'm thinking about joining this evil Krampug heresy I started wondering how close to the Krampus a set of 29er+ Knards at riding pressure on a Pug are to fat tyres with higher pressure in them. (The height of a fatbike is can vary by quite a few cms depending on what pressure you use.)

    So I propose an experiment for coastkid - measure the BB height with the Knards on, and also with the fat wheels at his normal pressures (with the rider on the bike).
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  38. #38
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    Off to the pub tonight for a couple of pints with blogger friend Al
    Be an evening of err pints, Lancaster Bomber talk (his late father was a Lancaster`Tail End Charlie `Tail gunner who made it through 1945)

    Al is one of the best blog writers i know
    crivens jings and help ma blog: Meeting Jane.

    And of course latest fatbike happenings talk...

    I will do some measuring up tomorrow affy and post up the findings at the weekend
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Off to the pub tonight for a couple of pints with blogger friend Al
    Be an evening of err pints, Lancaster Bomber talk (his late father was a Lancaster`Tail End Charlie `Tail gunner who made it through 1945)
    ...

    I will do some measuring up tomorrow affy and post up the findings at the weekend
    Ta. BTW you may be interested in a book written by one of my father's friends "Bomber Stream Broken" (£0.01 s/h on Amazon). A novel based on his experiences as a navigator on Lancasters.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  40. #40
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    SURLY KramPug thread...




    Just built this up....it's really fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  41. #41
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    ^ Good stuff.

    The more I think about it, a KramPug might be a better choice than the Krampus for many of the trails I ride, where pedal clearance is precious.

  42. #42
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    Has anyone tried this on a small Pugs? I have a small 907 and a small Pugs and wonder if they would fit...I would hate to have to buy another bike to ride 29+.

  43. #43
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    There's no reason it shouldn't work. Wheel and tire areas are the same, the triangles are just different. At worst, maybe you'd have a tiny bit of toe overlap? I'm considering doing it for my girl's xs pugs, but I'd probably put a sus fork up front

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way View Post
    Has anyone tried this on a small Pugs? I have a small 907 and a small Pugs and wonder if they would fit...I would hate to have to buy another bike to ride 29+.
    They fit and ride great. I don't get any tire/shoe overlap. The bike feels much faster than with the fat tires but that might be in my head.

  45. #45
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    With regular 29 x 2.25 tyres on the Krampus rims the BB height is only a 1/2" higher, but ideal, this is why i do not need a ridged Karate Monkey 29er now,
    So my KM has just got drop bars for commuting!,

    My Pugsley is a 4" fatbike, a 29+, an ECR, and also now a 29er.
    An all in one...kind off!


    2nd Feb; 29er &amp; 29+, Messing around in the Garage 019 by coastkid71, on Flickr


    2nd Feb; 29er &amp; 29+, Messing around in the Garage 014 by coastkid71, on Flickr



    2nd Feb; 29er &amp; 29+, Messing around in the Garage 021 by coastkid71, on Flickr
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  46. #46
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    Even has a matching hat! ^^^^^ :-)

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    Quiver Killer! Love it!

  48. #48
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    Was just at the LBS discussing lacing up some 29" wheels for my pug. Won't be 29+ as I haven't the money for that, but these wheels will make my pug a more versatile platform. This will also help me eliminate a bike that I've been holding onto because it's my only "normal" mtb. I will no longer need to keep it.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Was just at the LBS discussing lacing up some 29" wheels for my pug. Won't be 29+ as I haven't the money for that, but these wheels will make my pug a more versatile platform. This will also help me eliminate a bike that I've been holding onto because it's my only "normal" mtb. I will no longer need to keep it.
    What's their plan to deal with the offset rear so as to get decent spoke tension?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  50. #50
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    Anybody else wonder why it was called the Krampug and not the Pugpus, or just me?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    What's their plan to deal with the offset rear so as to get decent spoke tension?
    We're going to use the velocity synergy off set rim for the rear.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Anybody else wonder why it was called the Krampug and not the Pugpus, or just me?
    KramPug was just my own name for the concept when i got my wheels from Surly after FORTH FAT, Tyler did say he liked the concept name. maybe it just stuck for some other folks
    Last edited by coastkid71; 09-21-2014 at 10:33 PM.
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  53. #53
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    how about, keep fat in the back, and just do a 29+ in front ?
    I'am also 200 lbs, and my back is not in great shape.
    got a vee8 tire for the back, and 27tpi 29+ for the front, the 120tpi might be to fragile for my weight and rocky trails.
    do have a 45mm dually 29, but that is center drilled, and pugs needs offset, don't think I can use those for the pugs.
    need to wait for the snow to subside, before swaping parts.
    so , anybody running a fat 4.0 (26) in back, and krampus 29+ 3.0 front ?

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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    Just saw that QBP is now selling built 29+ rabbit hole wheelsets built with the 17.5mm Pugsley offset.

  55. #55
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    That bike was a ton of fun!! Thanks for digging those up. The bike has since been handed over to a happy new owner with marge lite, knard, nate combo and he is a happy camper. As for the wheels they have found a new home…

  56. #56
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    Does anybody run a Pugs frame and Krampus fork for their Krampug?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Does anybody run a Pugs frame and Krampus fork for their Krampug?
    I haven't seen that but it would change the geometry because it is longer. A better option might be an old school pug 100mm fork if the 100mm spacing is what you are after.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
    I haven't seen that but it would change the geometry because it is longer. A better option might be an old school pug 100mm fork if the 100mm spacing is what you are after.
    My question was regarding the geometry changes and if anyone has gone that route, even for sh*ts and giggles. Many Surly riders have thrown longer forks on their bikes with positive results; 650b forks on Trolls, Krampus forks on Karate Monkeys. I'd think someone would have tried it by now. I'd be curious to see if the handling is preferred by anyone like with the bikes I mentioned.

  59. #59
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    Vaultbrad, wondering how this wheel set is working out? About to order the goods for a set of 29+, and would love a set of wheels to fit the Knard CX 41 as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    We're going to use the velocity synergy off set rim for the rear.

  60. #60
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    Just another KramPug.

    Probably the funnest bike I've ever had.

    But, what do we call it when we build yet another (700x23) wheel set for these beasts?

    SURLY KramPug thread...-img_1115.jpgSURLY KramPug thread...-img_1108.jpgSURLY KramPug thread...-img_7085.jpgSURLY KramPug thread...-img_7096.jpg

    Do it. Money is nothing but Flat Bicycles (or Travel, or Skis, or Flyrods, or?????) yearning to gain that 3rd dimension.
    Last edited by Kbbob; 07-22-2014 at 11:56 AM.

  61. #61
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    Can someone smarter than I am tell me whether 2 of these will let me convert my Pugsley (has offset fork) to a Krampug?
    Surly Rabbit Hole XT Rear Disc Wheel 17.5 Offset in Tree Fort Bikes Fat Bike Wheels (cat920)

    Thanks!
    Out to ride

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Endomorph View Post
    Can someone smarter than I am tell me whether 2 of these will let me convert my Pugsley (has offset fork) to a Krampug?
    Surly Rabbit Hole XT Rear Disc Wheel 17.5 Offset in Tree Fort Bikes Fat Bike Wheels (cat920)

    Thanks!
    Yep,

    Only downside is you are paying for and carrying around the extra weight of an XT freehub for your front wheel.

    Probably can get a better solution built from your LBS but a pair of those would do the job.

    Did not find the offset Krampus front wheel, so there does not appear to be a prebuilt solution there.

    Craig

  63. #63
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    First, thanks.

    Second, maybe this for the front? Might weigh a bit less?
    Surly Rabbit Hole Surly Rear Disc Wheel 17.5 Offset
    Out to ride

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Endomorph View Post
    First, thanks.

    Second, maybe this for the front? Might weigh a bit less?
    Surly Rabbit Hole Surly Rear Disc Wheel 17.5 Offset
    Nope, still a freehub wheel.

  65. #65
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    Thanks. I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm not too worried about the weight. After all, it's a Pugsley.
    Out to ride

  66. #66
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    Still loving my KramPug
    It is the go to bike for around here riding harvested stubble fields

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IylB0ane-To?list=UUSv198UD3Wy-dBsg3K40IvQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  67. #67
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    I have a question, what about techny stuff dirt and rock single track how is the Krampug vs pugsley and Krampus?
    Thank you in advance
    Last edited by Fatalpine; 10-03-2014 at 07:46 AM.

  68. #68
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    I have found the bike ideal on terrain away from the beach and soft dirt for this type of riding it is fine, rides like a comfy 29er,

    Here at a UK Trail Centre, Glentress `Spooky Woods` trail, look how steady the Go Pro is following a 6" full suspension bike on the ridgid 29+

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kVpLZgzwqc4?list=UUSv198UD3Wy-dBsg3K40IvQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Through some real rooty single track trails
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qIew2M1uqYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    And regular singletrack
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ba9eqXvBqUY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    For real rocky stuff the 4" regular tyres will prob be better as provide more grip and comfort, 4" Knards are good for this...
    Riding my KramPug in the Lake District in 2 weeks time so it will get well tested on UK Lakeland rocky trails
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  69. #69
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    Fatalpine:

    After a couple of months with both sets of wheels, finding the 29+ Knaards to be definitely faster, and more nimble on root/rocky stuff. The higher BB has been noticeable, too, as far as peddle clearance goes.

    3.8 Nates roll over the gnarly easier, but noticeably slower overall, for me. As CoastKid points out, there is noticeably more float on sand and mud (and Muskeg) with the 3.8's.

    These are the only two tires I have tried, and have not had a chance to ride a Krampus.

    Cheers.

    SURLY KramPug thread...-img_0067.jpg

  70. #70
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    SURLY KramPug thread...-imag1862.jpg

    been running the velocity dually with the knard on my Pug for the last few weeks, really enjoying it for the typical singletrack, a bit more chatter from the trail, then the fat tires, but they move me along a bit quicker, still roll over almost everything, but if I plan to go bush maddness, I'd probably stick with the fat, a bit more float.. same as above with really rocky sections, more cush and grip from the true fat...

    anybody interested in a kona king kahuna 29'er hardtail? after riding the pug as 29+ ... it's just going to keep gathering more and more dust.

  71. #71
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    twright205,

    Would love to know how the Dually holds up for the rear wheel (RE: offset). Built some for my Ogre, and they have been bomber, but chickened out and went for Rabbit Holes on the Krampug.

    And, as you have found with your Kona, my poor Ogre is gathering dust since I built the 29+.

    Cheers

  72. #72
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    X-post from 29er Forums, but figured some Kram-Pugers would be interested and might not see it there.



    Surly DW 29+ tire update - sort of.

    Dirt Wizard 29+ and My Yearly Rant About How We Ain?t Perfect | Blog | Surly Bikes

    Mostly just an explanation why you won't see it for a good long time.

    FWIW - I feel for Surly and their odd ball projects. It ain't easy to do something new and wacky. So thanks for trying.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  73. #73
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    Got it done. Loving it!
    SURLY KramPug thread...-p1010222.jpg
    Out to ride

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Endomorph View Post
    Got it done. Loving it!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice! Looks like you have weather to ride, too!

    Cheers
    Kevin

  75. #75
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    Kbbob.... the 29+ dually with knards are holding up very well. did the split tube tubeless and no issues. the rear is dished, and after several rides no issues with spokes or wheel integrity or true(ness)...

    I think the kona king kahuna going up in the classifieds soon.

  76. #76
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    Twright205,

    Thanks for the update! I like that Dually, might have to see what else shows up for tires next year and re-lace them for another set of Krampug wheels.

    Cheers
    Kevin

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalpine View Post
    I have a question, what about techny stuff dirt and rock single track how is the Krampug vs pugsley and Krampus?
    Thank you in advance
    I've owned a Pugs and now ride a Krampus. I thought about making my Pugs a 29+ Krampug, but didn't. One of the deciding factors was wanting the Krampus' slacker HTA as well as wanting the larger headtube so I could run a tapered fork.

    I enjoyed how the Krampus rides a lot. My only complaint was the steepest and loosest terrain where it felt nervous.

    I've since add a suspension fork and made the Krampus even slacker. And my hope is that I will be able to ride that steep/loose stuff with more confidence now.

    If my local riding was less steep and techy I'd probably be more than happy with the Pugs and 29+ wheels.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  78. #78
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    Latest update to my KramPug has been a pair of Jones 720 loop bars...
    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15505478158/player/" width="600" height="800" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    With the high BB it`s good to be able to get your weight over the back wheel on steep drops

    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15505459618/in/photostream/player/" width="600" height="800" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15071550813/in/photostream/player/" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    The bike uses a Mk 2 grey frame with no drop top tube so stand over is not much so i sold my Purple Pugsley and bought another Pug- a Mk3 - friend Gary Buckhams first Pugsley, the 2nd Pugsley in Scotland, it had been resprayed white from the original Pee Yellow colour but i want to keep the Pumpkin orange and black theme going,
    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15755815301/player/" width="598" height="800" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    Before the powder coating i have done some mods and removed the canti brake mounts and added some fork and downtube bottle mounts...
    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15148237073/player/" width="598" height="800" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastkid71/15582844060/in/photostream/player/" width="598" height="800" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    Hope to get this frame done and swapped over soon, then i can restore the old Grey frame to original colour and spec with the Alfine etc
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  79. #79
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    I'm building a 29+ wheelset for my Pugs too... so i like your thread!!

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    Re: SURLY KramPug thread...

    Coastkid, the GOAT of the fatbike forum!

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    Hear, hear.

  82. #82
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    Though I'd like to see a tournament crowned fat champ one day...

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    Coastkid,

    Nice! I love those wide Jones bars.

    Thanks for inspiring us, and leading the charge!

    Cheers
    Kevin

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kbbob View Post
    Coastkid,

    Nice! I love those wide Jones bars.

    Thanks for inspiring us, and leading the charge!


    Cheers
    Kevin
    Yeah, the charge down into the Rabbit Hole vortex! I can feel the suck...its like getting pulled over the edge into some bizarre event horizon...and now, yet another reason (high bottom bracket on KramPugs) to get those Jones Loop Bars (that I already had been eyeing) adding to the beckoning! Resistance is getting futile! I'd better just go for a ride!

  85. #85
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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    I'm excited! I ordered a Krampus and cancel it on the last minute and get Pugsley SS instead. The PugSS is said to ready by next week😃
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  86. #86
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    Newly built KramPug here. Loving it so far. One overnighter on rocky terrain and one snow ride so far............
    Imnaha to Dug Bar in Hells Canyon by Doug in Idaho, on Flickr

    Waha Snow Ride by Doug in Idaho, on Flickr

  87. #87
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    Nice! That Dug Bar trip is a great one!

    Cheers
    Kevin

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlutonicPlague View Post
    Yeah, the charge down into the Rabbit Hole vortex! I can feel the suck...its like getting pulled over the edge into some bizarre event horizon...and now, yet another reason (high bottom bracket on KramPugs) to get those Jones Loop Bars (that I already had been eyeing) adding to the beckoning! Resistance is getting futile! I'd better just go for a ride!
    Give it up, and get ready to pay for constant facial muscle massage to loosen the grin cramps.

    Cheers
    Kevin

  89. #89
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    A quick wheel swap for Sunday and it is back to Fat- NATES for the mud fest in the local woods away from the coast...
    26th Nov; 003 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    26th Nov; 004 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    26th Nov; 006 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    Loving the Jones bars now... first ride with them on fat tyres...
    26th Nov; 007 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    26th Nov; 015 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    Down on the coast i discovered they are great for wheelies!, must be with your back straight- did not need to drag the rear brake, the Pug just sat on the rear wheel nicely

    26th Nov; 023 by coastkid71, on Flickr

    26th Nov; 027 by coastkid71, on Flickr
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  90. #90
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    I had a Fargo and Pugsley. I sold the Fargo and got a Krampus as soon as I started thinking about 29+.
    Was going to go the KramPug route, but the price on a Krampus at that local shop was too good to pass up...

    So, I keep the Pugsley full 3.8" fat with Nates, and the Krampus has become my 'chubby' bike.

    Love the way the big wheels roll, and I went split tube tubeless... really dig the way this thing eats up terrain... a bit of 'mountain biking' - but more my bikepacking / touring / exploring rig.

  91. #91
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    After thoroughly examining the standover clearance on my 20" Pugs with Larry tires, and finding it to be "just enough," I now think that maybe I'll wait until I see what kind of wide 27.5" rims and tires become available. If my BB height gets increased by an inch or more with 29" Rabbit Hole rims, that might not leave me with enough standover clearance. The Krampug setup on my "L" Pugs frame may end up being too tall for me. I have read here on the forum that 27.5" wheels won't increase my BB height. So I think I'm going to just wait and see what materializes.
    I'll probably go ahead and order the Jones Loop bars anyway:-/

    Bonus! My clinic just called me and postponed an appointment I had scheduled for later this afternoon. Rescheduled it for a rainy day later in the week. Its sunny today, and now I get to ride!

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    I apologize for my lack of knowledge but I'm looking at buying a Pug Ops at a great deal and my LBS said this kind of thing would be possible but might be complicated because of the asymmetrical nature of the bike(?)

    Are there any strange quirks to this set up? Especially with any newer pugsley? This is the green pug ops I am referring to. I want to set this up as a nice fat bike in the winter and an ecr during the spring/summer/fall. I know there are geometry differences (especially the BB on the ECR being so low).

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Quesnel View Post
    I apologize for my lack of knowledge but I'm looking at buying a Pug Ops at a great deal and my LBS said this kind of thing would be possible but might be complicated because of the asymmetrical nature of the bike(?)

    Are there any strange quirks to this set up? Especially with any newer pugsley? This is the green pug ops I am referring to. I want to set this up as a nice fat bike in the winter and an ecr during the spring/summer/fall. I know there are geometry differences (especially the BB on the ECR being so low).
    Hi Doug.

    I have exactly the setup that you are planning, bought the bike last spring and built the rabbit holes in late June. Very fun.

    The wheels have been bomber. The wheel builder was me, and while I have built a lot of wheels in my youth, this was only the second set since I got off the ocean and back on a bike.

    If your LBS doesn't understand the situation, maybe find someone who is not so scared of it. When it comes down to it, the build is like any other wheel, i.e. tension, round, true, etc. Quirkiness is wrapping your head around the thing being moved over in relation to the hub.

    QBP also had, listed, pre built wheels for this set up, I think with an XT hub. Either way (custom built or off the shelf) it will probably be expensive. When I bought the components, there didn't seem to be any smoking deals on the rims and tires, so was happily able to order them through the LBS.

    I have enjoyed mine immensely. Have fun.

    Cheers
    Kevin

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Quesnel View Post
    I apologize for my lack of knowledge but I'm looking at buying a Pug Ops at a great deal and my LBS said this kind of thing would be possible but might be complicated because of the asymmetrical nature of the bike(?)

    Are there any strange quirks to this set up? Especially with any newer pugsley? This is the green pug ops I am referring to. I want to set this up as a nice fat bike in the winter and an ecr during the spring/summer/fall. I know there are geometry differences (especially the BB on the ECR being so low).
    The offset rear build is easy and you can even buy them prebuilt that way from Surly. It sounds like you have the right idea and expectations of the 29er plus setup on the pugsley. It is nice as an ECR style bike packing set up because they do roll very nice, however, I have found that I lost some of the playful nature of the pugs when using 29+ wheels. I think that with a larger frame it may not be as much of an issue but on a 16'' frame it feels like a lot of wheel. I use them in the summer but I could live without them and should have put the money toward something else.

    Edit to add: The other nice bonus of the 29er+ setup on the pugs for summer use is that it raises the bottom bracket a bit which means less pedal strikes on trailside obstacles I can't see because of overgrowth on the trail. This may not be an issue where you ride though.

  95. #95
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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    Quick question guys? When it says 17mm offset on the Pugs rear? Does it mean that wheel building need the hub to be 17mm offset to the right automatically?
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    Quick question guys? When it says 17mm offset on the Pugs rear? Does it mean that wheel building need the hub to be 17mm offset to the right automatically?
    17.5mm to the right, as you look at it from the rear of the bike. Absolutely nesc. for any frame with the offset, for "centering the wheel/tire in the frame". Surly, and Salsa (and I'm sure others) have some really good posts in their blogs explaining this. Basically, it is to get the drive train to work without rubbing, and these guys have it down to the mm.

    This would include some vintage and new 9:Zero:7's, Charge Cookers, and more (help me out here, guys) as well as the Pugs. The newest designs now have wider hubs (i.e Surly ICT, Borealis, Salsa Muktuk and Beargrease, etc. 170mm-190mm hubs which are heavier) to work with, and the wheels can be built without offset (regular, almost centered(you still have some dish, depending on the drive train and the brake disc setup)).

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
    Kevin

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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    Thank you Kevin, my assumptions are now clear👍
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    My LBS email me today. My PugSS now arrived😃
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    Got my PugSS today and also ordered a 29+ rim and tires and soon will have my Krampug too😃
    I'm excited to have it ridden on the trail this weekend😃
    SURLY KramPug thread...-imageuploadedbytapatalk1416490036.381441.jpg
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    SURLY KramPug thread...

    Ok, I'm a newbie to Surly and Fat Bikes and shopping for one now. So, with a second 29" wheel set the Pug rolls faster and becomes more of a trail bike or even good as a commuter with the right tires? I am thinking hard about a '14 Pugsley and may sell my Hybrid to help defer the cost (not that my hybrid is worth much). I like the idea of a second set of less-fat tires and a quick wheel change.
    Last edited by homebrewtim; 11-24-2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: typo

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